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Tags 2020 elections , Elizabeth Warren , Massachusetts politics , presidential candidates , racial categorization , racial isssues

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Old 13th September 2018, 01:52 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Have you considered simply coping with the idea that some of your many ancestors were aboriginal to the Americas?

(It's not all that bad, unless you were hoping to join a white nationalist movement.)
I already had to give that up. Being "Pure Lithuanian", I am part Jewish, part Persian, part Mongolian, part Balkan.....

From today's web searches, it looks like my C5C1(a) "Indian" mitochondrial haplogroup had it's last change to the (a) between 600-3,000 years ago - in Poland. Drat, I guess I'll have to have a bonfire to sacrifice all my Navajo blankets in. The Dreamcatchers will make good kindling.

Lizzie could get tested secretly. No need to go public with the results unless she likes them.
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Old 13th September 2018, 02:11 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Lizzie could get tested secretly. No need to go public with the results unless she likes them.
I think she might should do the test, but releasing the results would just give conversational fodder to the deplorables.
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Old 13th September 2018, 03:10 PM   #203
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I'm pretty sure it's illegal for an employer to ask race/ethnicity on a job application. So she either provided this info voluntarily OR it wasn't on a job application but on some directory listing. I think it was the latter.

So why list yourself as having minority status? The only legitimate reason I can think of is the stuff it can get for you. Being of Mexican descent helped my wife get scholarships, for example. If you have minority status, you'd be stupid not to use it.

I think it's high time we eliminate these kinds of race/ethnicity based benefits. That stuff shouldn't matter in the 21st century.
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Old 13th September 2018, 03:12 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I'm pretty sure it's illegal for an employer to ask race/ethnicity on a job application. So she either provided this info voluntarily OR it wasn't on a job application but on some directory listing. I think it was the latter.

So why list yourself as having minority status? The only legitimate reason I can think of is the stuff it can get for you. Being of Mexican descent helped my wife get scholarships, for example. If you have minority status, you'd be stupid not to use it.

I think it's high time we eliminate these kinds of race/ethnicity based benefits. That stuff shouldn't matter in the 21st century.
Everything you have written is completely wrong.
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Old 13th September 2018, 05:29 PM   #205
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Elizabeth Warren Ancestry Thread

Really? Heís wrong about how his wife got scholarships?
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Old 13th September 2018, 06:24 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Everything you have written is completely wrong.


I can assure you that my wife is of Mexican decent and she got several Hispanic focused scholarships. So not wrong about that.

I looked up the legality of asking race on a job application and it isnít technically illegal but it is kinda stupid for an employer to do because it would be too easy to make a discrimination case. So I was technically wrong there.

Since itís established that race/ethnicity is a superficial social construct, I donít see any legitimate use for such information. I canít be wrong about my opinion. Reasonable people can disagree.

Perhaps you can raise some reasonable disagreements?


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Old 13th September 2018, 07:03 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I can assure you that my wife is of Mexican decent and she got several Hispanic focused scholarships. So not wrong about that.

I looked up the legality of asking race on a job application and it isnít technically illegal but it is kinda stupid for an employer to do because it would be too easy to make a discrimination case. So I was technically wrong there.

Since itís established that race/ethnicity is a superficial social construct, I donít see any legitimate use for such information. I canít be wrong about my opinion. Reasonable people can disagree.

Perhaps you can raise some reasonable disagreements?


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The information is collected to verify that no employment bias is occurring, since that historically has been a problem for minorities, and still is at times.

I too look forward to when it doesn't matter. Unfortunately, it still does, in part maybe due to lingering institutional and cultural bias, however also in part to unconscious human bias.
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Old 15th September 2018, 10:27 PM   #208
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If trump is still in office and running for a second term, then Iím sure the name ďPocahontasĒ will be spread widely throughout the campaign. However, if trump doesnít run, then I would hope to see a return to a more mature level of campaigning, one where stupid, derogatory nicknames were never uttered by any candidate.
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Old 16th September 2018, 06:23 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
However, if trump doesnít run, then I would hope to see a return to a more mature level of campaigning, one where stupid, derogatory nicknames were never uttered by any candidate.

Tricky Dick (1969)
The Peanut Farmer (1977)
The Teflon President (1981)
Slick Willy (1993)
Shrub (2001)
No Drama Obama (2009)
The Donald (2017)
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Old 16th September 2018, 06:31 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
Tricky Dick (1969)

The Peanut Farmer (1977)

The Teflon President (1981)

Slick Willy (1993)

Shrub (2001)

No Drama Obama (2009)

The Donald (2017)

What candidates uttered those words? Source please!
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Old 16th September 2018, 07:55 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
What candidates uttered those words? Source please!
Request seconded.
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Old 15th October 2018, 05:12 AM   #212
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She was telling the truth.

Let the wild and baseless conspiracy theories begin!
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Old 15th October 2018, 05:17 AM   #213
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But but... who paid for the test?! Huh?!

And a university professor?! We all know educated people are liberal sheep.
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Old 15th October 2018, 05:17 AM   #214
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Oh I'm glad that's finally settled.

*Pause*

Wait why were we caring about this again?
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Old 15th October 2018, 05:26 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
But but... who paid for the test?! Huh?!

And a university professor?! We all know educated people are liberal sheep.
Yeah - that's one of those "ilite" experts who know nothing. Trump was right about Obama - he's right about her!
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Old 15th October 2018, 05:34 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Oh I'm glad that's finally settled.

*Pause*

Wait why were we caring about this again?
Because the GOP is filled with dickbags who need to start tearing down any potential challenger years ahead of time just to have a fighting chance. And this in particular was a gift given to them by Trump being outright racist and playing to his racist base.

Only now it's backfired and she's a shoe-in for the White House in 2020.

It's far from "settled," though. The GOP's too committed to its dogwhistle to give it up right away. Expect to see at least one paid actor with a PhD claiming to have evidence that she's not actually native american, melting away without ever presenting it but nevertheless fueling a "controversy" that the media can credulously report on as if it weren't completely manufactured.
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Old 15th October 2018, 05:36 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
She was telling the truth.

Let the wild and baseless conspiracy theories begin!
Wow... her DNA is approximately .0039 Native American?

Is that Native North American?, South American or Central American?

Because Donald Might have to change her name to Muwaan Mat or something.
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Old 15th October 2018, 05:37 AM   #218
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I canít believe she felt she had to prove she was right. It was a ridiculous, childish and racist game being played by trump and his deplorables.

Theyíll never accept the evidence anyway.

If they canít understand the science and accept Climate Change, what are the chances that they start valuing scientific evidence in this case?
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Old 15th October 2018, 05:38 AM   #219
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Its OK, Trump hasn't trusted DNA since it proved the Central Park 5 were innocent and he couldn't lead a lynch mob.
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Old 15th October 2018, 05:52 AM   #220
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I guess this is a good move as it moves the "controversy" well into the realm of conspiracy theory idiocy that shouldn't be taken seriously (which is where it was already by my estimation).

If these idiots could gin up doubt on the explicit proof of Obama's birthplace, they'll cast doubt on the much wobblier evidence that is DNA genealogy.
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Old 15th October 2018, 05:59 AM   #221
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I heard a rumor that the radical Liberal environmental agenda traces back to an Italian pretending to be Native American. Trump should have someone investigate that next.
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Old 15th October 2018, 06:15 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
I canít believe she felt she had to prove she was right. It was a ridiculous, childish and racist game being played by trump and his deplorables.

Theyíll never accept the evidence anyway.

If they canít understand the science and accept Climate Change, what are the chances that they start valuing scientific evidence in this case?
Yes, it makes her look like she is responding to Trump.

Persuasion-wise he looks like the Alpha.
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Old 15th October 2018, 06:22 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Yes, it makes her look like she is responding to Trump.

Persuasion-wise he looks like the Alpha.
Depends on where you stand. The same could be said of the Obama birther conspiracy. Some people claim Trump achieved victory by "forcing" Obama to release the certificate. Others saw Trump as a laughingstock who thoroughly discredited himself in an extremely public venue.

Obama's public barbs at him at the 2011 correspondents dinner were unassailable and very humiliating. Trump was a mockery to all but his most rabid fans. Hopefully Warren takes this approach.
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Old 15th October 2018, 06:25 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Wow... her DNA is approximately .0039 Native American?

Is that Native North American?, South American or Central American?

Because Donald Might have to change her name to Muwaan Mat or something.

Interesting. Does anyone know what percent of the population would have that minuscule amount? (guessing a fairly high percentage of people on earth?)
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Old 15th October 2018, 06:29 AM   #225
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Not sure this is reliable but found this.

Quote:
That same level of proof would likely be found in about 90 percent of the planet’s inhabitants.
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Old 15th October 2018, 06:29 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Yes, it makes her look like she is responding to Trump.

Persuasion-wise he looks like the Alpha.
I have a three year old. Sometimes she has a freakout in public and I have to divert my attention to address it. The fact that adults sometimes have to respond to the disruptive behavior of a child is not a demonstration of the child's skill of persuasion.
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Old 15th October 2018, 06:45 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Yes, it makes her look like she is responding to Trump.

Persuasion-wise he looks like the Alpha.
Proving someone wrong makes that person the alpha? Weird.

Sounds like something people who are wrong a lot tell themselves.
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Old 15th October 2018, 06:45 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by River View Post
Not sure this is reliable but found this.
Iíd like to know why he thinks Europeans, Asians, Africans and others who havenít come to the Americas would be likely to have Native American DNA to the tune of 90%.

Heís trying to paint this in the worst light, the report says 6-10 generations ago, he defaults to 10.
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Old 15th October 2018, 06:50 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Iíd like to know why he thinks Europeans, Asians, Africans and others who havenít come to the Americas would be likely to have Native American DNA to the tune of 90%.

Heís trying to paint this in the worst light, the report says 6-10 generations ago, he defaults to 10.
Warren's original claim was very modest anyway. She claimed that, according to family lore, some great-great-great-grandmother allegedly had partial native american ancestry. That's not a particularly interesting or stunning claim and I imagine most Americans do not have clear ethnic knowledge of their families that far back. 6-10 generations by DNA analysis is right in line what that claim.
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Old 15th October 2018, 06:50 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by River View Post
Not sure this is reliable but found this.
Read: Here's some random contrarian **** I scoured the internet to find. Now I'd like to throw it at the wall to see if it sticks.

Last edited by johnny karate; 15th October 2018 at 06:58 AM.
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Old 15th October 2018, 06:53 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
I’d like to know why he thinks Europeans, Asians, Africans and others who haven’t come to the Americas would be likely to have Native American DNA to the tune of 90%.

He’s trying to paint this in the worst light, the report says 6-10 generations ago, he defaults to 10.

I agree it seems highly unlikely to be that great of a percentage. (is why the reliability is unknown to me) There must be some DNA studies out there for reference. I'm just not privy to any good info on the topic. I do know from my own family and friends family DNA tests that many include some small percentage of Native American. For families that have had multiple generations on this continent it has to be fairly high. I do not know any percentages of these DNA results by country but that would be very interesting if there is a database available for public perusal.
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Old 15th October 2018, 06:57 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
I’d like to know why he thinks Europeans, Asians, Africans and others who haven’t come to the Americas would be likely to have Native American DNA to the tune of 90%.

He’s trying to paint this in the worst light, the report says 6-10 generations ago, he defaults to 10.
I'm going to go with: Because he's a right wing crank who works for a right wing crank media network.

Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edit for rule 0 and rule 12

Last edited by zooterkin; 16th October 2018 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 15th October 2018, 07:00 AM   #233
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After all this silly hubbub I'm still at:

1. I don't understand why Elizabeth Warren thinks anyone would care that she has some microscopic percentage of Native People's DNA.
2. I don't understand why anyone would doubt it.
3. I don't understand the pinch hitter rule in Baseball.
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Old 15th October 2018, 07:00 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by River View Post
I agree it seems highly unlikely to be that great of a percentage. (is why the reliability is unknown to me) There must be some DNA studies out there for reference. I'm just not privy to any good info on the topic. I do know from my own family and friends family DNA tests that many include some small percentage of Native American. For families that have had multiple generations on this continent it has to be fairly high. I do not know any percentages of these DNA results by country but that would be very interesting if there is a database available for public perusal.
It's zero. The percentage of Native American DNA in peoples who never stepped foot in the Americas is zero.
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Old 15th October 2018, 07:04 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Proving someone wrong makes that person the alpha? Weird.

Sounds like something people who are wrong a lot tell themselves.
There are two possibilities here:

1. You acknowledge Trumps accusation, and he still gets to counter your response. (THIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE IS FORGED)

2. You do not acknowledge Trumps accusation, and say that his accusation is not worthy of a response. As was shown in the movie The Contender https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Contender_(2000_film)
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Old 15th October 2018, 07:06 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
It's zero. The percentage of Native American DNA in peoples who never stepped foot in the Americas is zero.
I believe you are in error.
Has not one single Native American moved to Europe and then had a kid?
Has not one person with a Native American great-great-great something moved to Europe and had a kid?
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Old 15th October 2018, 07:07 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
There are two possibilities here:

1. You acknowledge Trumps accusation, and he still gets to counter your response. (THIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE IS FORGED)

2. You do not acknowledge Trumps accusation, and say that his accusation is not worthy of a response. As was shown in the movie The Contender https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Contender_(2000_film)
I think the option in which Warren is proven correct and forces Trump to go full conspiracy theorist is better one than the fake movie one.
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Old 15th October 2018, 07:08 AM   #238
Drewbot
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Proving someone wrong makes that person the alpha? Weird.

Sounds like something people who are wrong a lot tell themselves.
You are projecting, I didn't say it makes that person the alpha. I said it makes that person LOOK LIKE the alpha.

Persuasion tactics should not be confused with facts.
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Old 15th October 2018, 07:09 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
I think the option in which Warren is proven correct and forces Trump to go full conspiracy theorist is better one than the fake movie one.
Conspiracy theorist?

She put 'NATIVE AMERICAN' on her bio at Harvard based on .0039 ancestry...
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"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker
"I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325
Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic
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Old 15th October 2018, 07:11 AM   #240
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
It's zero. The percentage of Native American DNA in peoples who never stepped foot in the Americas is zero.
Originally Posted by beren View Post
I believe you are in error.
Has not one single Native American moved to Europe and then had a kid?
Has not one person with a Native American great-great-great something moved to Europe and had a kid?
I've highlighted the relevant part of my post for you.

And please bear in mind that the right wing crank from where River gets his "information" claims that 90% of the planet's population can trace their ancestry to Native Americans.

Do you think 90% of the planet's population has Native American ancestry?
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