Joe Biden: Middle Class "Buried" in the last Four Years - Page 2

johnny karate · 3rd October 2012, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

No, the obvious implication is that Leno isn't right-wing. You have created a false dichotomy: people don't have to be either right-wing or left-wing. I wouldn't describe Leno as either, I think he's pretty centrist. But unless you want to claim that he's right-wing (and you haven't done so), then his jab at Biden undermines your original point that the attack is just from the right.

In what universe is a joke in a talk show monologue an attack?

m-n-m · 3rd October 2012, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Tricky

He's certainly no good at off-the-cuff comments, but if you drill past his sloppy language, his points have substance.

Heck, if Biden isn't the real "Joe the plumber", who is?

Other than romney, of course.

ravdin · 3rd October 2012, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by Tricky

Neither Biden nor Obama have denied that the last four years have been tough. That is certainly not a new meme to the Democratic camp. But the Republican meme is to add "...and it's Obama's fault". I don't think Biden was 'mindlessly parroting' that position.

And as you say, you agree with him. Most people agree with him. But yeah, it's worth a few jokes.

It's worth a few jokes, as you say. He reminded the audience that they've been struggling during the exact timeframe he's been in office, while asking for their votes. It would be sad if it weren't funny.

Olowkow · 3rd October 2012, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by ravdin

It's worth a few jokes, as you say. He reminded the audience that they've been struggling during the exact timeframe he's been in office, while asking for their votes. It would be sad if it weren't funny.

Has Obama claimed that the recovery from W's fiasco is complete? I must have missed that.

My understanding is that Obama is up front about the financial situation not being what it should be, but it will take longer to recover. If you don't believe him, then vote for Romney's ..."dunno". Plain and simple.

Ziggurat · 3rd October 2012, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by Tricky

"Erm... uh... what I meant was, 'Your Majesty shines out like a shaft of gold when all around is dark.'"

"I am but mad north-north-west: when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw."

ravdin · 3rd October 2012, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by Olowkow

I think he is just a simple truthful person who really cares about his country. I honestly don't believe Biden would be a good president, but I would love to sit around a blue collar bar with him and hear his story telling.

I'm not even sure what the hilited phrase means, but he seems to mean that the middle class has been buried by the BS that a do nothing congress has imposed on it. I somehow find it difficult to imagine that he meant that the middle class has been buried by the president...given that he would like for Obama to be re-elected.

My own opinion is that our country has stagnated because of the house and the senate's unwillingness to think outside the box. It has been 4 years of "highest priority is to make Obama a 1 term president". That's what has buried us, not Obama. As for republicans' motivations, I used to think I understood them, but now I'm not sure. I think their reasoning is a lot baser than I had ever allowed myself to believe.

You forget that the Democrats have had a majority in the Senate for the last four years, and briefly even had a supermajority. They also controlled the House of Representatives for the first two years of Obama's presidency. So if you're unhappy with Congress' performance during that time, the Democrats are far from blameless.

Olowkow · 3rd October 2012, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by ravdin

You forget that the Democrats have had a majority in the Senate for the last four years, and briefly even had a supermajority. They also controlled the House of Representatives for the first two years of Obama's presidency. So if you're unhappy with Congress' performance during that time, the Democrats are far from blameless.

Of course I'm disgusted with both the House and Congress. You may want to check out the claims of the so-called "supermajority". Perhaps "briefly" means a few days. There is another thread on that.

ravdin · 3rd October 2012, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by Olowkow

Of course I'm disgusted with both the House and Congress. You may want to check out the claims of the so-called "supermajority". Perhaps "briefly" means a few days. There is another thread on that.

By "briefly", I mean the period between 25 September 2009 (when Paul Kirk, the appointee who replaced Ted Kennedy took office) and 4 February 2010 (when Scott Brown took office after winning the special election). The Democratic caucus, which included two independents, had a 60-40 majority during that time. That would be about 4 1/2 months with a filibuster proof supermajority- substantially less than two years, but still more than a few days.

Olowkow · 3rd October 2012, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by ravdin

By "briefly", I mean the period between 25 September 2009 (when Paul Kirk, the appointee who replaced Ted Kennedy took office) and 4 February 2010 (when Scott Brown took office after winning the special election). The Democratic caucus, which included two independents, had a 60-40 majority during that time. That would be about 4 1/2 months with a filibuster proof supermajority- substantially less than two years, but still more than a few days.

Is this correct or not?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jennif...b_1929869.html

DavidJames · 3rd October 2012, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by ravdin

By "briefly", I mean the period between 25 September 2009 (when Paul Kirk, the appointee who replaced Ted Kennedy took office) and 4 February 2010 (when Scott Brown took office after winning the special election). The Democratic caucus, which included two independents, had a 60-40 majority during that time. That would be about 4 1/2 months with a filibuster proof supermajority- substantially less than two years, but still more than a few days.

This has been thoroughly refuted in other threads. Why keep up the charade?

A'isha · 3rd October 2012, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by ravdin

The Democratic caucus, which included two independents, had a 60-40 majority during that time.

One of those "independents" had just spent pretty much the entire 2008 presidential campaign stumping for Obama's opponent, and was very close to being selected as his opponent's running mate.

I'm pretty sure he couldn't be relied on to vote in constant lockstep with the Democrats in order to override Republican filibusters.

ravdin · 3rd October 2012, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by Olowkow

Is this correct or not?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jennif...b_1929869.html

Seems correct to me. The article in no way contradicts what I wrote in my previous post.

sir drinks-a-lot · 3rd October 2012, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by Olowkow

Has Obama claimed that the recovery from W's fiasco is complete? I must have missed that.

W's fiasco? Not according to Biden! He say the middle class has been buried in the last four years.

That is what is so freakin' funny. He chose four years - the exact length of time that team Obama has been in office. To blame Bush, he would have said five years or six years or more.

ravdin · 3rd October 2012, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by ANTPogo

One of those "independents" had just spent pretty much the entire 2008 presidential campaign stumping for Obama's opponent, and was very close to being selected as his opponent's running mate.

I'm pretty sure he couldn't be relied on to vote in constant lockstep with the Democrats in order to override Republican filibusters.

All I said is that the caucus had 60 members for a brief period of time. Not my problem who was disloyal to the party, too old and feeble to vote, etc. FWIW, I hold them blameless for not overriding any filibusters.

A'isha · 3rd October 2012, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot

W's fiasco? Not according to Biden! He say the middle class has been buried in the last four years.

That is what is so freakin' funny. He chose four years - the exact length of time that team Obama has been in office. To blame Bush, he would have said five years or six years or more.

The big Lehman Brothers crash which had such a major effect on economic markets that John McCain "suspended" his campaign (and effectively sunk it at that moment) because of it happened on September 15, 2008...four years and two weeks ago.

Tricky · 3rd October 2012, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by ravdin

It's worth a few jokes, as you say. He reminded the audience that they've been struggling during the exact timeframe he's been in office, while asking for their votes. It would be sad if it weren't funny.

Well yeah, because it was roughly four years ago that the economy went into the crapper. Pointing that out, while maybe not the most politically correct thing to do, is certainly accurate and really, nobody, Democratic or Republican, denies that. So yeah, gaffe in that he probably shouldn't have mentioned the elephant in the living room. But he did, and it is worth mining a few jokes from.

What is almost as funny, though, is that some on the Right seem to think that this overly honest assesment of the last four years somehow makes him unfit to be Vice President. Okay, maybe he wouldn't cut it as diplomat, but that's not his job.

But the essential questions remain: What would Republicans have done differently over the last four years, and what specifically will they do differently over the next four years, if elected? Those are difficult questions, and it is much easier just to point and laugh at Ol' Joe than to be just as straightforward as Ol' Joe.

AlBell · 3rd October 2012, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by Tricky

Well yeah, because it was roughly four years ago that the economy went into the crapper. Pointing that out, while maybe not the most politically correct thing to do, is certainly accurate and really, nobody, Democratic or Republican, denies that. So yeah, gaffe in that he probably shouldn't have mentioned the elephant in the living room. But he did, and it is worth mining a few jokes from.

What is almost as funny, though, is that some on the Right seem to think that this overly honest assesment of the last four years somehow makes him unfit to be Vice President. Okay, maybe he wouldn't cut it as diplomat, but that's not his job.

But the essential questions remain: What would Republicans have done differently over the last four years, and what specifically will they do differently over the next four years, if elected? Those are difficult questions, and it is much easier just to point and laugh at Ol' Joe than to be just as straightforward as Ol' Joe.

There's an opening in Benghazi.

Tricky · 3rd October 2012, 03:50 PM

Speaking of comedy, Rubio had a good line.

Originally Posted by Marco Rubio

“No, don’t boo, he’s the best thing we’ve got going, guys,” Rubio said. “Because in a moment of clarity, in a brief moment of clarity, he told us what we already knew.”

Of course, he and most of the Republicans also like to tell us what we already know, that the economy has been bad since Obama took office, though they rarely mention the four months before.

m-n-m · 3rd October 2012, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

My thoughts are that you seem intent on trying to personalize this, and in changing the topic, neither of which I have any interest in doing in this thread.

lol, I'm angry? Please point that out! Stop projecting, Ziggurat. Your party and ideology is being threatened, I get it. Joe Biden is always fair game, as are all politicians. I'd still take an out of context quote from Joe Biden , than an in text quote by any of the insane republicans. Stop playing the victim card.

Tricky · 3rd October 2012, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by AlBell

There's an opening in Benghazi.

Look out, Leno, AlBell is after your job.

Ausmerican · 3rd October 2012, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot

W's fiasco? Not according to Biden! He say the middle class has been buried in the last four years.

That is what is so freakin' funny. He chose four years - the exact length of time that team Obama has been in office. To blame Bush, he would have said five years or six years or more.

No, he did not say that the "middle class has been buried in the last four years."

He said the middle class had "been buried the last four years."

If someone told you a mutual acquaintance had "been buried the last four years." would you assume they had been buried IN the last four years or FOR the last four years?

Most, if not all, would read that as they have been buried for the entire four years which means the burying had to have been done before then.

Ziggurat · 3rd October 2012, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by m-n-m

lol, I'm angry? Please point that out!

Originally Posted by m-n-m

I'd take Hillary over sarah palin or michele bachmann everyday. Hey Ziggurat, why do you think idiotic, anti intellectual women (palin, bachmann) gravitate toward your party, and become stars? Why are they consumed with so much contempt, while being soooo hypocritical? Thoughts?

All those insults aren't hurled in jest. You're actually angry. And you're directing that anger at me.

Quote:

Stop projecting, Ziggurat. Your party and ideology is being threatened, I get it.

By what? Joe Biden? I think not.

Plus, of course, you don't actually know my party or my ideology.

Quote:

Joe Biden is always fair game, as are all politicians.

Your reaction suggested you felt otherwise at the time.

Quote:

I'd still take an out of context quote from Joe Biden , than an in text quote by any of the insane republicans.

That's nice.

Quote:

Stop playing the victim card.

I'm not a victim. Your attacks have in no way harmed me. I just think you've somewhat embarrassed yourself by getting so upset over my joke about Biden. And you don't seem to have the self-awareness to realize this.

johnny karate · 3rd October 2012, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot

He chose four years - the exact length of time that team Obama has been in office.

You might want to check your calendar. It seems to be running a little fast.

Peephole · 4th October 2012, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by ravdin

Our gaffetastic veep is at it again:

With the much maligned "you didn't build that" slip I can at least see the case that Obama meant to say something else. What on earth was Joe Biden trying to say here?

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

That the United States is still in an economic depression? Which it in fact is. How is this in any way a gaffe?

DDWW · 4th October 2012, 08:36 AM

The middle class will all rise out of their graves on Election Day and march numbly in unison to the polls to vote for Obama.

Sounds like..............ZOMBIES!!!!

ravdin · 4th October 2012, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by Peephole

That the United States is still in an economic depression? Which it in fact is. How is this in any way a gaffe?

Do I really need to explain? You don't see anything funny about Biden reminding voters how tough it's been for them during the time he's been in office, while asking to be reelected?

It's a gaffe because he's not supposed to use his opponent's talking points.

Tricky · 4th October 2012, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by ravdin

It's a gaffe because he's not supposed to use his opponent's talking points.

Yeah. He should have said "The fundamentals of our economy are still sound."

ravdin · 4th October 2012, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by Tricky

Yeah. He should have said "The fundamentals of our economy are still sound."

Nothing is as good as "I've abandoned free market principles to save the free market system."

thaiboxerken · 4th October 2012, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by Tricky

But the essential questions remain: What would Republicans have done differently over the last four years, and what specifically will they do differently over the next four years, if elected? Those are difficult questions, and it is much easier just to point and laugh at Ol' Joe than to be just as straightforward as Ol' Joe.

They would have cut taxes, tortured more "terrorists", and ban abortion at the Federal level. That is the clear path to economic success.

Grizzly Bear · 4th October 2012, 09:24 PM

Biden's always been a loose cannon and like it or not his apparent bluntness always seems to accompany just the right context to make him sound dumb. He also has a habit of stacking gaffes one after the other:

"You know the phrase they always use? "Obama and Biden want to raise taxes by a trillion dollars." Guess what? Yes we do, in one regard. We want to let that trillion dollar tax cut expire so the middle class doesn’t have to bare the burden of all that money going to the super wealthy."

I guess if you agree with his point that the the context means "to make the wealthy pay their fair share" that's one thing, but I wonder if he's figured out yet that the way he markets doesn't exactly help campaigns.

a_unique_person · 5th October 2012, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by Brainster

They warned me if I voted for McCain, we'd have an idiot as VP... and they were right!

It was a prediction they knew they couldn't get wrong.

trvlr2 · 6th October 2012, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

No, the obvious implication is that Leno isn't right-wing. You have created a false dichotomy: people don't have to be either right-wing or left-wing. I wouldn't describe Leno as either, I think he's pretty centrist. But unless you want to claim that he's right-wing (and you haven't done so), then his jab at Biden undermines your original point that the attack is just from the right.

Wow!...Has anyone told you that you are very Romneyesque?...except for the flip-flopping, which means that Romney is somewhat aware of a consensual reality....

3rd October 2012, 02:26 PM	#42
m-n-m Scholar Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 120	Originally Posted by Tricky He's certainly no good at off-the-cuff comments, but if you drill past his sloppy language, his points have substance. Heck, if Biden isn't the real "Joe the plumber", who is? Other than romney, of course.
m-n-m Scholar Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 120

3rd October 2012, 02:29 PM	#43
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	Originally Posted by Tricky Neither Biden nor Obama have denied that the last four years have been tough. That is certainly not a new meme to the Democratic camp. But the Republican meme is to add "...and it's Obama's fault". I don't think Biden was 'mindlessly parroting' that position. And as you say, you agree with him. Most people agree with him. But yeah, it's worth a few jokes. It's worth a few jokes, as you say. He reminded the audience that they've been struggling during the exact timeframe he's been in office, while asking for their votes. It would be sad if it weren't funny.
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	__________________ Take the risk of thinking for yourself. Much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way. -Christopher Hitchens Believe what you're told. There would be chaos if everyone thought for themselves. -Top Dog slogan

3rd October 2012, 02:35 PM	#44
Olowkow Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 8,230	Originally Posted by ravdin It's worth a few jokes, as you say. He reminded the audience that they've been struggling during the exact timeframe he's been in office, while asking for their votes. It would be sad if it weren't funny. Has Obama claimed that the recovery from W's fiasco is complete? I must have missed that. My understanding is that Obama is up front about the financial situation not being what it should be, but it will take longer to recover. If you don't believe him, then vote for Romney's ..."dunno". Plain and simple.
Olowkow Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 8,230	Last edited by Olowkow; 3rd October 2012 at 02:38 PM.

3rd October 2012, 02:35 PM	#45
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 48,634	Originally Posted by Tricky "Erm... uh... what I meant was, 'Your Majesty shines out like a shaft of gold when all around is dark.'" "I am but mad north-north-west: when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw."
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

3rd October 2012, 02:37 PM	#46
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	Originally Posted by Olowkow I think he is just a simple truthful person who really cares about his country. I honestly don't believe Biden would be a good president, but I would love to sit around a blue collar bar with him and hear his story telling. I'm not even sure what the hilited phrase means, but he seems to mean that the middle class has been buried by the BS that a do nothing congress has imposed on it. I somehow find it difficult to imagine that he meant that the middle class has been buried by the president...given that he would like for Obama to be re-elected. My own opinion is that our country has stagnated because of the house and the senate's unwillingness to think outside the box. It has been 4 years of "highest priority is to make Obama a 1 term president". That's what has buried us, not Obama. As for republicans' motivations, I used to think I understood them, but now I'm not sure. I think their reasoning is a lot baser than I had ever allowed myself to believe. You forget that the Democrats have had a majority in the Senate for the last four years, and briefly even had a supermajority. They also controlled the House of Representatives for the first two years of Obama's presidency. So if you're unhappy with Congress' performance during that time, the Democrats are far from blameless.
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	__________________ Take the risk of thinking for yourself. Much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way. -Christopher Hitchens Believe what you're told. There would be chaos if everyone thought for themselves. -Top Dog slogan

3rd October 2012, 02:21 PM	#41
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 14,652	Originally Posted by Ziggurat No, the obvious implication is that Leno isn't right-wing. You have created a false dichotomy: people don't have to be either right-wing or left-wing. I wouldn't describe Leno as either, I think he's pretty centrist. But unless you want to claim that he's right-wing (and you haven't done so), then his jab at Biden undermines your original point that the attack is just from the right. In what universe is a joke in a talk show monologue an attack?

3rd October 2012, 02:43 PM	#47
Olowkow Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 8,230	Originally Posted by ravdin You forget that the Democrats have had a majority in the Senate for the last four years, and briefly even had a supermajority. They also controlled the House of Representatives for the first two years of Obama's presidency. So if you're unhappy with Congress' performance during that time, the Democrats are far from blameless. Of course I'm disgusted with both the House and Congress. You may want to check out the claims of the so-called "supermajority". Perhaps "briefly" means a few days. There is another thread on that.
Olowkow Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 8,230

3rd October 2012, 02:54 PM	#48
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	Originally Posted by Olowkow Of course I'm disgusted with both the House and Congress. You may want to check out the claims of the so-called "supermajority". Perhaps "briefly" means a few days. There is another thread on that. By "briefly", I mean the period between 25 September 2009 (when Paul Kirk, the appointee who replaced Ted Kennedy took office) and 4 February 2010 (when Scott Brown took office after winning the special election). The Democratic caucus, which included two independents, had a 60-40 majority during that time. That would be about 4 1/2 months with a filibuster proof supermajority- substantially less than two years, but still more than a few days.
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	__________________ Take the risk of thinking for yourself. Much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way. -Christopher Hitchens Believe what you're told. There would be chaos if everyone thought for themselves. -Top Dog slogan Last edited by ravdin; 3rd October 2012 at 02:56 PM.

3rd October 2012, 02:57 PM	#49
Olowkow Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 8,230	Originally Posted by ravdin By "briefly", I mean the period between 25 September 2009 (when Paul Kirk, the appointee who replaced Ted Kennedy took office) and 4 February 2010 (when Scott Brown took office after winning the special election). The Democratic caucus, which included two independents, had a 60-40 majority during that time. That would be about 4 1/2 months with a filibuster proof supermajority- substantially less than two years, but still more than a few days. Is this correct or not? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jennif...b_1929869.html
Olowkow Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 8,230

3rd October 2012, 03:01 PM	#50
DavidJames Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Front Range, CO Posts: 10,493	Originally Posted by ravdin By "briefly", I mean the period between 25 September 2009 (when Paul Kirk, the appointee who replaced Ted Kennedy took office) and 4 February 2010 (when Scott Brown took office after winning the special election). The Democratic caucus, which included two independents, had a 60-40 majority during that time. That would be about 4 1/2 months with a filibuster proof supermajority- substantially less than two years, but still more than a few days. This has been thoroughly refuted in other threads. Why keep up the charade?
	__________________ For 15 years I never put anyone on ignore. I felt it important to see everyone's view point. Finally I realized the value of some views can be measured in negative terms and were personally destructive.

3rd October 2012, 03:02 PM	#51
A'isha Miss Schoolteacher Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 15,221	Originally Posted by ravdin The Democratic caucus, which included two independents, had a 60-40 majority during that time. One of those "independents" had just spent pretty much the entire 2008 presidential campaign stumping for Obama's opponent, and was very close to being selected as his opponent's running mate. I'm pretty sure he couldn't be relied on to vote in constant lockstep with the Democrats in order to override Republican filibusters.
	__________________ When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes - Desiderius Erasmus "Does [A'isha] want to end up in a gas chamber, I wonder? Because this is where the whole thing will end" - McHrozni

3rd October 2012, 03:02 PM	#52
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	Originally Posted by Olowkow Is this correct or not? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jennif...b_1929869.html Seems correct to me. The article in no way contradicts what I wrote in my previous post.
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	__________________ Take the risk of thinking for yourself. Much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way. -Christopher Hitchens Believe what you're told. There would be chaos if everyone thought for themselves. -Top Dog slogan

3rd October 2012, 03:03 PM	#53
sir drinks-a-lot Illuminator Join Date: May 2004 Location: Cole Valley, CA Posts: 4,513	Originally Posted by Olowkow Has Obama claimed that the recovery from W's fiasco is complete? I must have missed that. W's fiasco? Not according to Biden! He say the middle class has been buried in the last four years. That is what is so freakin' funny. He chose four years - the exact length of time that team Obama has been in office. To blame Bush, he would have said five years or six years or more.
	__________________ I don't like that man. I must get to know him better. --Abraham Lincoln

3rd October 2012, 03:06 PM	#54
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	Originally Posted by ANTPogo One of those "independents" had just spent pretty much the entire 2008 presidential campaign stumping for Obama's opponent, and was very close to being selected as his opponent's running mate. I'm pretty sure he couldn't be relied on to vote in constant lockstep with the Democrats in order to override Republican filibusters. All I said is that the caucus had 60 members for a brief period of time. Not my problem who was disloyal to the party, too old and feeble to vote, etc. FWIW, I hold them blameless for not overriding any filibusters.
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	__________________ Take the risk of thinking for yourself. Much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way. -Christopher Hitchens Believe what you're told. There would be chaos if everyone thought for themselves. -Top Dog slogan

3rd October 2012, 03:14 PM	#55
A'isha Miss Schoolteacher Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 15,221	Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot W's fiasco? Not according to Biden! He say the middle class has been buried in the last four years. That is what is so freakin' funny. He chose four years - the exact length of time that team Obama has been in office. To blame Bush, he would have said five years or six years or more. The big Lehman Brothers crash which had such a major effect on economic markets that John McCain "suspended" his campaign (and effectively sunk it at that moment) because of it happened on September 15, 2008...four years and two weeks ago.
	__________________ When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes - Desiderius Erasmus "Does [A'isha] want to end up in a gas chamber, I wonder? Because this is where the whole thing will end" - McHrozni

3rd October 2012, 03:26 PM	#56
Tricky Briefly immortal Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W Bench Posts: 44,381	Originally Posted by ravdin It's worth a few jokes, as you say. He reminded the audience that they've been struggling during the exact timeframe he's been in office, while asking for their votes. It would be sad if it weren't funny. Well yeah, because it was roughly four years ago that the economy went into the crapper. Pointing that out, while maybe not the most politically correct thing to do, is certainly accurate and really, nobody, Democratic or Republican, denies that. So yeah, gaffe in that he probably shouldn't have mentioned the elephant in the living room. But he did, and it is worth mining a few jokes from. What is almost as funny, though, is that some on the Right seem to think that this overly honest assesment of the last four years somehow makes him unfit to be Vice President. Okay, maybe he wouldn't cut it as diplomat, but that's not his job. But the essential questions remain: What would Republicans have done differently over the last four years, and what specifically will they do differently over the next four years, if elected? Those are difficult questions, and it is much easier just to point and laugh at Ol' Joe than to be just as straightforward as Ol' Joe.

3rd October 2012, 03:47 PM	#57
AlBell Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 6,360	Originally Posted by Tricky Well yeah, because it was roughly four years ago that the economy went into the crapper. Pointing that out, while maybe not the most politically correct thing to do, is certainly accurate and really, nobody, Democratic or Republican, denies that. So yeah, gaffe in that he probably shouldn't have mentioned the elephant in the living room. But he did, and it is worth mining a few jokes from. What is almost as funny, though, is that some on the Right seem to think that this overly honest assesment of the last four years somehow makes him unfit to be Vice President. Okay, maybe he wouldn't cut it as diplomat, but that's not his job. But the essential questions remain: What would Republicans have done differently over the last four years, and what specifically will they do differently over the next four years, if elected? Those are difficult questions, and it is much easier just to point and laugh at Ol' Joe than to be just as straightforward as Ol' Joe. There's an opening in Benghazi.
AlBell Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 6,360	__________________ "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." M. Thatcher, Economics: Share The Wealth. Obamanomics: Share The Pain. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Stay well back: I'm allergic to Stupid.

3rd October 2012, 03:50 PM	#58
Tricky Briefly immortal Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W Bench Posts: 44,381	Speaking of comedy, Rubio had a good line. Originally Posted by Marco Rubio “No, don’t boo, he’s the best thing we’ve got going, guys,” Rubio said. “Because in a moment of clarity, in a brief moment of clarity, he told us what we already knew.” Of course, he and most of the Republicans also like to tell us what we already know, that the economy has been bad since Obama took office, though they rarely mention the four months before.

3rd October 2012, 03:58 PM	#59
m-n-m Scholar Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 120	Originally Posted by Ziggurat My thoughts are that you seem intent on trying to personalize this, and in changing the topic, neither of which I have any interest in doing in this thread. lol, I'm angry? Please point that out! Stop projecting, Ziggurat. Your party and ideology is being threatened, I get it. Joe Biden is always fair game, as are all politicians. I'd still take an out of context quote from Joe Biden , than an in text quote by any of the insane republicans. Stop playing the victim card.
m-n-m Scholar Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 120

3rd October 2012, 04:02 PM	#60
Tricky Briefly immortal Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W Bench Posts: 44,381	Originally Posted by AlBell There's an opening in Benghazi. Look out, Leno, AlBell is after your job.

3rd October 2012, 04:04 PM	#61
Ausmerican Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 3,490	Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot W's fiasco? Not according to Biden! He say the middle class has been buried in the last four years. That is what is so freakin' funny. He chose four years - the exact length of time that team Obama has been in office. To blame Bush, he would have said five years or six years or more. No, he did not say that the "middle class has been buried in the last four years." He said the middle class had "been buried the last four years." If someone told you a mutual acquaintance had "been buried the last four years." would you assume they had been buried IN the last four years or FOR the last four years? Most, if not all, would read that as they have been buried for the entire four years which means the burying had to have been done before then.
Ausmerican Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 3,490	__________________ Everyone must believe in something. I believe I'll go canoeing. Henry David Thoreau

3rd October 2012, 04:08 PM	#62
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 48,634	Originally Posted by m-n-m lol, I'm angry? Please point that out! Originally Posted by m-n-m I'd take Hillary over sarah palin or michele bachmann everyday. Hey Ziggurat, why do you think idiotic, anti intellectual women (palin, bachmann) gravitate toward your party, and become stars? Why are they consumed with so much contempt, while being soooo hypocritical? Thoughts? All those insults aren't hurled in jest. You're actually angry. And you're directing that anger at me. Quote: Stop projecting, Ziggurat. Your party and ideology is being threatened, I get it. By what? Joe Biden? I think not. Plus, of course, you don't actually know my party or my ideology. Quote: Joe Biden is always fair game, as are all politicians. Your reaction suggested you felt otherwise at the time. Quote: I'd still take an out of context quote from Joe Biden , than an in text quote by any of the insane republicans. That's nice. Quote: Stop playing the victim card. I'm not a victim. Your attacks have in no way harmed me. I just think you've somewhat embarrassed yourself by getting so upset over my joke about Biden. And you don't seem to have the self-awareness to realize this.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

3rd October 2012, 04:18 PM	#63
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 14,652	Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot He chose four years - the exact length of time that team Obama has been in office. You might want to check your calendar. It seems to be running a little fast.

4th October 2012, 08:36 AM	#65
DDWW Muse Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 728	The middle class will all rise out of their graves on Election Day and march numbly in unison to the polls to vote for Obama. Sounds like..............ZOMBIES!!!!
DDWW Muse Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 728

4th October 2012, 09:31 AM	#66
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	Originally Posted by Peephole That the United States is still in an economic depression? Which it in fact is. How is this in any way a gaffe? Do I really need to explain? You don't see anything funny about Biden reminding voters how tough it's been for them during the time he's been in office, while asking to be reelected? It's a gaffe because he's not supposed to use his opponent's talking points.
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	__________________ Take the risk of thinking for yourself. Much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way. -Christopher Hitchens Believe what you're told. There would be chaos if everyone thought for themselves. -Top Dog slogan

4th October 2012, 09:38 AM	#67
Tricky Briefly immortal Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W Bench Posts: 44,381	Originally Posted by ravdin It's a gaffe because he's not supposed to use his opponent's talking points. Yeah. He should have said "The fundamentals of our economy are still sound."

4th October 2012, 09:57 AM	#68
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	Originally Posted by Tricky Yeah. He should have said "The fundamentals of our economy are still sound." Nothing is as good as "I've abandoned free market principles to save the free market system."
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	__________________ Take the risk of thinking for yourself. Much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way. -Christopher Hitchens Believe what you're told. There would be chaos if everyone thought for themselves. -Top Dog slogan

4th October 2012, 10:18 AM	#69
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 31,717	Originally Posted by Tricky But the essential questions remain: What would Republicans have done differently over the last four years, and what specifically will they do differently over the next four years, if elected? Those are difficult questions, and it is much easier just to point and laugh at Ol' Joe than to be just as straightforward as Ol' Joe. They would have cut taxes, tortured more "terrorists", and ban abortion at the Federal level. That is the clear path to economic success.
	__________________ 1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it.

4th October 2012, 09:24 PM	#70
Grizzly Bear このマスクによっ Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 7,863	Biden's always been a loose cannon and like it or not his apparent bluntness always seems to accompany just the right context to make him sound dumb. He also has a habit of stacking gaffes one after the other: "You know the phrase they always use? "Obama and Biden want to raise taxes by a trillion dollars." Guess what? Yes we do, in one regard. We want to let that trillion dollar tax cut expire so the middle class doesn’t have to bare the burden of all that money going to the super wealthy." I guess if you agree with his point that the the context means "to make the wealthy pay their fair share" that's one thing, but I wonder if he's figured out yet that the way he markets doesn't exactly help campaigns.
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5th October 2012, 07:11 PM	#71
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open. Posts: 43,082	Originally Posted by Brainster They warned me if I voted for McCain, we'd have an idiot as VP... and they were right! It was a prediction they knew they couldn't get wrong.
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6th October 2012, 09:36 AM	#72
trvlr2 Muse Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 832	Originally Posted by Ziggurat No, the obvious implication is that Leno isn't right-wing. You have created a false dichotomy: people don't have to be either right-wing or left-wing. I wouldn't describe Leno as either, I think he's pretty centrist. But unless you want to claim that he's right-wing (and you haven't done so), then his jab at Biden undermines your original point that the attack is just from the right. Wow!...Has anyone told you that you are very Romneyesque?...except for the flip-flopping, which means that Romney is somewhat aware of a consensual reality....
	__________________ Conservatives: Proud Major Supplier of turds to the National Punch Bowl since 1969. Some people are living legends; Republicans are living lies...