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Tags gun control , joe biden , self-defense laws

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Old 3rd March 2013, 05:58 PM   #41
triforcharity
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Not to mention the simple fact that in most states that I am aware of, firing a warning shot is illegal, and could get you in a world of **** with the DA.
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Old 3rd March 2013, 06:09 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
I guarantee Biden has far more than even an AR-15 protecting his home.

His suggestions are for you, not important people like him and your typical Chicago alderman or Illinois legislator.
Well I live in a neighborhood where the leading source of income is drug manufacturing. I seem to get along fine with no AR-15's.

Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Does it bother anyone else that the last time we could trust a VP with a shotgun was in the nineties and that person was Al Gore?
Yeah, I am beginning to wonder if this a new qualification for the position.
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Old 3rd March 2013, 06:13 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by triforcharity View Post
It is evidence some anecdotes of the simple fact that firing a shotgun, and maintaining control over that weapon, is harder to do than a simple .223 rifle.
But let's not quibble. I agree with your statement.

Last edited by SezMe; 3rd March 2013 at 06:18 PM.
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Old 3rd March 2013, 09:01 PM   #44
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That video, while admittedly humorous, is sort of mean. I get the feeling that's the very first time some of those ladies fired a shotgun. And maybe the last.

But yeah, them are anecdotes, here's some numbers!

Quote:
Cartridge(Wb @ MV) - Rifle Weight (lbs.) - Recoil Energy(foot pounds)
ARs
.223 Rem. (45 at 3500) - 8.5 - 2.6
.223 Rem. (55 at 3200) - 8.0 - 3.2
.223 Rem. (62 at 3025) - 7.0 - 3.9

AKs
7.62x39 Soviet (125 at 2350) - 7.0 - 6.9

Grandad's deer rifle
.30-06 Spfd. (150 at 2910) - 8.0 - 17.6
.30-06 Spfd. (165 at 2900) - 8.0 - 20.1
.30-06 Spfd. (180 at 2700) - 8.0 - 20.3

Shotguns!
Gauge, length (oz. shot@MV) - Gun weight (lbs.) - Recoil energy (ft. lbs.)
.410 bore, 2.5" (1/2 at 1200) - 5.5 - 7.1
.410 bore, 3" (11/16 at 1135) - 5.5 - 10.5
28 gauge, 2.75" (3/4 at 1200) - 6.0 - 12.8
20 gauge, 2.75" (7/8 at 1200) - 6.5 - 16.1
20 gauge, 2.75" (1 at 1220) - 6.5 - 21.0
20 gauge, 2.75" (1 1/8 at 1175) - 6.5 - 25.0
20 gauge, 3" (1 1/4 at 1185) - 6.5 - 31.0
16 gauge, 2.75" (1 at 1220) - 7.0 - 21.5
16 gauge, 2.75" (1 1/8 at 1240) - 7.0 - 27.6
12 gauge, 2.75" (1 at 1180) - 7.5 - 17.3
12 gauge, 2.75" (1 1/8 at 1200) - 7.5 - 23.0
12 gauge, 2.75" (1 1/4 at 1330) - 7.5 - 32.0
12 gauge, 2.75" (1 1/2 at 1260) - 7.5 - 45.0
12 gauge, 3" (1 5/8 at 1280) - 7.5 - 52.0
12 gauge, 3" (1 7/8 at 1210) - 8.75 - 54.0
10 gauge, 3.5" (2 1/4 at 1210) - 10.5 - 62.9



All info from chuckhawks.com http://www.chuckhawks.com/index2.guns.htm
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Old 3rd March 2013, 09:56 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by bynmdsue View Post
That video, while admittedly humorous, is sort of mean. I get the feeling that's the very first time some of those ladies fired a shotgun. And maybe the last.

But yeah, them are anecdotes, here's some numbers!





All info from chuckhawks.com http://www.chuckhawks.com/index2.guns.htm
It's why many shotguns have factory-installed recoil pads, while they're rare on rifles.
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Old 3rd March 2013, 10:17 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
It's why many shotguns have factory-installed recoil pads, while they're rare on rifles.
The recoil pad on my 1100 is supposed to halve it but even with a padded vest, it can get old quick.

But according to Vice-President Karl Childers shotguns are easier. It makes me wonder if they ever thought of taking a break from sitting around conference tables and heading out to the range.
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Old 3rd March 2013, 10:35 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by bynmdsue View Post
It makes me wonder if they ever thought of taking a break from sitting around conference tables and heading out to the range.
I would think this is something the secret service would have the President/Vice-President do in the highly unlikely event that the secret service gets taken out or otherwise can't protect their charge... But what do I know?
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Old 4th March 2013, 01:50 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Mudcat View Post
...the highly unlikely event that the secret service gets taken out or otherwise can't protect their charge...
If that happens, we have a problem that the P/VP packing heat is not going to solve. I would guess that the SS would be ADAMANT that the P/VP not carry because the last thing they need is some wannabe blasting away.
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Old 4th March 2013, 03:44 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
If that happens, we have a problem that the P/VP packing heat is not going to solve. I would guess that the SS would be ADAMANT that the P/VP not carry because the last thing they need is some wannabe blasting away.
Or even someone getting through their security and taking their weapon and using it against them.
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Old 4th March 2013, 07:23 AM   #50
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Let's not get crazy, we're not exactly electing Teddy Roosevelts anymore but if they're going to sit around and talk about which guns are "good" and which are "bad" and should be banned then they should take the opportunity to learn about the firearms in the best way possible, going out and using them. Look at Dianne Feinstein sweeping the muzzle of an AK with mag in place, breech closed and finger inside the trigger guard across a crowd in a 1999 press conference. She's not someone who should be lecturing others about gun safety.
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Old 4th March 2013, 08:30 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by bynmdsue View Post
Let's not get crazy, we're not exactly electing Teddy Roosevelts anymore but if they're going to sit around and talk about which guns are "good" and which are "bad" and should be banned then they should take the opportunity to learn about the firearms in the best way possible, going out and using them. Look at Dianne Feinstein sweeping the muzzle of an AK with mag in place, breech closed and finger inside the trigger guard across a crowd in a 1999 press conference. She's not someone who should be lecturing others about gun safety.
Indeed. This was a subject very important in the issue Biden was ostensibly researching for months in order to advise our law and policy making processes. Somehow he wasn't informed about actual best practices in self defense or home defense or even basic safe use practices? Really?
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Old 8th March 2013, 08:07 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by mikedenk View Post
But if you're worried about intruders who themselves may be carrying a gun, a rifle gives you a significant firepower advantage.
Against an intruder in your house, you want something small and powerful. A 9mm or a .38. Out in the back 40 you would find a rifle to be the right weapon.
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Old 8th March 2013, 08:30 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by paiute View Post
Against an intruder in your house, you want something small and powerful. A 9mm or a .38. Out in the back 40 you would find a rifle to be the right weapon.
Just like all blanket statements of its kind its wrong in many situations.


Any situation where penetration is good, its good to have a rifle.
Any situation where range is important, a rifle is good to have.
Any situation where control is important, a rifle or carbine is good to have.

Some situations may offer such circumstances, some may find that someone is firebombing their house from behind decent cover.

Standing behind a car is decent cover for pistols, but not good at all against most rifles.

TLDR:
We could list thousands of situations were having a small powerful handgun would not be adequate.
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Old 8th March 2013, 09:20 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Indeed. Biden was ostensibly researching for months
Yeah - I bolded the important bit.
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Old 8th March 2013, 10:00 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Well I live in a neighborhood where the leading source of income is drug manufacturing. I seem to get along fine with no AR-15's.



Yeah, I am beginning to wonder if this a new qualification for the position.
We should ask all the dead people if they got along fine without an AR-15 . . .


Also, how do you know the main income in your neighborhood is drug manufacturing . . . just wondering.

While we are sharing anecdotes, and personal experience here some more of mine.

Back in the neighborhood I grew up in a crack dealer decided to kill everyone in a house (5-7 cant remember) that he knew had a person who ratted him out, so when he got out of jail he acquired a weapon and set out to kill everyone in that trailer, couple guys did run away. Being honest this did not make me run out and get an AR-15, I couldn't afford one at the time and already owned a pump action shotgun and semi auto hunting rifle in .308 so I felt that if a similar maniac got the wrong house we could at least try to fight back.
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Old 12th March 2013, 08:19 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Xulld View Post
Just like all blanket statements of its kind its wrong in many situations.
TLDR:
We could list thousands of situations were having a small powerful handgun would not be adequate.
Gunfight in a bathroom stall: 9mm
Gunfight on the high desert: .30-06
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Old 12th March 2013, 10:12 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by paiute View Post
Gunfight in a bathroom stall: 9mm
Gunfight on the high desert: .30-06
Gun fights where the person trying to kill you gets behind a barrier, brush or has body armor : any rifle will do, no pistol will. (generally speaking)

You should study research conducted for police. In fact leading up to departments commonly issuing rifles for squad cars (or allowing officers to purchase one and keep it in the squad car) these kinds of questions were asked and answered.

I call it the Three B's

Brush, barriers, body armor, Its what rifles defeat.
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Last edited by Xulld; 12th March 2013 at 10:26 AM.
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Old 12th March 2013, 10:15 AM   #58
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Hah! Shotguns are how my father taught his kids about gun safety. He had us all shoot a single barrel shotgun at the age of 6 or 7. The recoil was enough to leave us all with giant bruises. Right then and there, each of us knew that guns weren't toys. It was an extremely effective method.

That being said, we were quite lucky none of us broke anything.
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Old 12th March 2013, 10:25 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Mister Earl View Post
Hah! Shotguns are how my father taught his kids about gun safety. He had us all shoot a single barrel shotgun at the age of 6 or 7. The recoil was enough to leave us all with giant bruises. Right then and there, each of us knew that guns weren't toys. It was an extremely effective method.

That being said, we were quite lucky none of us broke anything.
We shot pumpkins, which altho they're probably not the best human analog, can really drive home the "these can mess you up" point. I still use them when I take someone new shooting for the first time.

Or watermelons, them you can eat after.
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Old 12th March 2013, 08:01 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Mister Earl View Post
Hah! Shotguns are how my father taught his kids about gun safety. He had us all shoot a single barrel shotgun at the age of 6 or 7. The recoil was enough to leave us all with giant bruises. Right then and there, each of us knew that guns weren't toys. It was an extremely effective method.

That being said, we were quite lucky none of us broke anything.
Lol!! That's actually quite funny. It worked though! My father did something similar. He would set up a pumpkin about 15 yards from him, load his shotgun with a slug shot, and blast that pumpkin to kingdom come!! There was pumpkin EVERYWHERE!

Then, the next time, he'd let us use the 20 gauge and even that left bruises!!
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Old 13th March 2013, 11:25 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by triforcharity View Post
Lol!! That's actually quite funny. It worked though! My father did something similar. He would set up a pumpkin about 15 yards from him, load his shotgun with a slug shot, and blast that pumpkin to kingdom come!! There was pumpkin EVERYWHERE!

Then, the next time, he'd let us use the 20 gauge and even that left bruises!!
My uncle did the same with me, only it was a semi auto .308 a stump and a battle pack.

Most fun I have ever had removing a stump, but also impressed upon me why guns are serious business.
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