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Old 1st June 2012, 02:10 PM   #161
carlitos
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Originally Posted by phantasmagoria7 View Post
I've already stated my reason four times.
Actually, no. How's this - What prompted you to search for "dancing israeli JREF" and "lavon affair JREF?"
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Old 1st June 2012, 02:14 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Actually, no. How's this - What prompted you to search for "dancing israeli JREF" and "lavon affair JREF?"
I had read about both of the occurrences from various places, but I was curious to what people on JREF thought, considering this is a notorious place for skeptics and debunkers of conspiracy theories.
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Old 1st June 2012, 02:16 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by phantasmagoria7 View Post
I had read about both of the occurrences from various places, but I was curious to what people on JREF thought, considering this is a notorious place for skeptics and debunkers of conspiracy theories.
And what is your thought on this? What is the importance of dancing Israelis?
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Old 1st June 2012, 02:19 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by phantasmagoria7 View Post
Here's the actual quote from the FBI report (The actual quote: [Blank] stated "Israel now has hope that the world will now understand us. Americans are naive and America is easy to get inside. There are not a lot of checks in America. And now America will be tougher about who gets into their country."
A perfectly reasonable comment to make for someone from a country that has suffered more from islamic extremist terrorism than nearly any other country in the world.

There's no evidence of any joy or amusement at the suffering of more than 100 jews and 2800 other Americans and citizens from other countries in that statement.

Quote:
You said they ensued into high-fiving,
I proposed a possible scenario and asked for evidence that it did not happen. Your failure/refusal is telling.

Quote:
but you say they weren't happy/celebrating.
I said there's no evidence that they were celebrating the 9/11 atacks.

Quote:
Wow! I'm going to start high-fiving at funerals.
That would be typical of the moral depravity of the 9/11 truth movement.

Last edited by Sword_Of_Truth; 1st June 2012 at 02:21 PM.
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Old 1st June 2012, 02:23 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by phantasmagoria7 View Post
I had read about both of the occurrences from various places, but I was curious to what people on JREF thought, considering this is a notorious place for skeptics and debunkers of conspiracy theories.
Ok.
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Old 1st June 2012, 02:27 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by Sword_Of_Truth View Post
A perfectly reasonable comment to make for someone from a country that has suffered more from islamic extremist terrorism than nearly any other country in the world.

There's no evidence of any joy or amusement at the suffering of more than 100 jews and 2800 other Americans and citizens from other countries in that statement.



I proposed a possible scenario and asked for evidence that it did not happen. Your failure/refusal is telling.



That would be typical of the moral depravity of the 9/11 truth movement.



You said they ensued into high-fiving, but you say they weren't happy/celebrating.

Wow! I'm going to start high-fiving at funerals. I didn't realize that was also a gesture of mourning.
[/quote]

Why does this feel like we're perpetually going in circles? You asked for evidence that something didn't happen, yet it was only your own little speculation?!? This is the same logic as someone who would say, "Prove to me there is no purple invisible elephant in the sky". I've provided you with news reports, segments from the FBI report that say they were happy, and all you've managed to do is give me manipulative paraphrases, while I actually provided you with the REAL quote.

It's safe to say you're a victim of confirmation bias, and you're guilty of the same problem No-planers have. Not willing to admit you're wrong--you persist on clinging to your own belief regardless of contradicting evidence.

I see no reason to continue on with this discussion, because it'll never end. It's like arguing with a creationist.
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Old 1st June 2012, 02:29 PM   #167
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I'll probably not be posting on this forum anymore; nevertheless, a lot of you do seem very rational, and I hope everyone has a good day.
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Old 1st June 2012, 02:32 PM   #168
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So the "Dancing Jews" were showing their awareness of the obvious fact that now the USA was going to be fully in the game and showed a moment of excitement about it.

For some reason I get the feeling that you are envisioning this:



and not simply someone jumping up and down in excitement and\or agitation.
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Old 1st June 2012, 02:33 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by phantasmagoria7 View Post
I'll probably not be posting on this forum anymore; nevertheless, a lot of you do seem very rational, and I hope everyone has a good day.
Bye now! But before you go, could you answer this question please?

Originally Posted by Bell View Post
And what is your thought on this? What is the importance of dancing Israelis?
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Old 1st June 2012, 02:43 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by phantasmagoria7 View Post
I've provided you with news reports, segments from the FBI report that say they were happy,
All you provided was hearsay evidence.

Quote:
while I actually provided you with the REAL quote.
...that didn't say what you said it did. You basically lied.

Quote:
It's safe to say you're a victim of confirmation bias, and you're guilty of the same problem No-planers have. Not willing to admit you're wrong
You are projecting your own failings onto me. By your own admission, you came here because I was defending the jews two years ago.

Quote:
--you persist on clinging to your own belief regardless of contradicting evidence.
You're seeing things that aren't there. The quotes you provided don't say what you think, or want them to say.

Quote:
I see no reason to continue on with this discussion, because it'll never end. It's like arguing with a creationist jew-lover.
Corrected free of charge. People like me always frustrate people like you.

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Old 1st June 2012, 02:48 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by phantasmagoria7 View Post
I had read about both of the occurrences from various places, but I was curious to what people on JREF thought, considering this is a notorious place for skeptics and debunkers of conspiracy theories.
Interesting choice of word.

Why would you use "notorious" instead of say "well known"?
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Old 1st June 2012, 03:00 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by Sam.I.Am View Post
Doing that (or any kind of "dancing") on top of a van with a couple other guys in a parking lot is a great way to get bones broken (if not your neck/skull).

Do the usual gang of idiots expect us to believe MOSSAD is hiring their agents from the cast of "Jackass"?

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Old 1st June 2012, 03:18 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by Sword_Of_Truth View Post
Doing that (or any kind of "dancing") on top of a van with a couple other guys in a parking lot is a great way to get bones broken (if not your neck/skull).

Do the usual gang of idiots expect us to believe MOSSAD is hiring their agents from the cast of "Jackass"?
Not to mention that they would be a really crappy bunch of secret agents to give away their identities like that... Of course NWO Agents are required to do an obligatory jig after the completion of a major op but that's just because it somehow got put into the contract (right after the part where it says all operations must be as overly complicated and easy to discover via various internet forums and YouTube).

BAD KITTY!!!
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Old 1st June 2012, 03:59 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by phantasmagoria7;8335410
Here's the actual quote from the FBI report (The actual quote: [Blank
stated "Israel now has hope that the world will now understand us. Americans are naive and America is easy to get inside. There are not a lot of checks in America. And now America will be tougher about who gets into their country."
And do you understand what they're talking about, in context?

Here, i'll help you understand it.

Israel has been the site of many terrorist attacks in the past, oh, 1000 years or so. Some in the country are tired of the fighting, and dying, and bloodshed, and believed, rightfully so, that America now will begin to understand how it feels. They understand that America, for the most part, was immune for many years from major terrorist attacks, and now that they've gotten beat by a fanatical group of people, that Americans as a whole will understand the Israeli people's frustration and feelings on that. They (the Israeli guys) know that since this has occurred, now Americans will tighten their boarder security.

Do you understand now? I mean, it's really quite simple.
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Old 1st June 2012, 04:36 PM   #175
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Ok, worst case scenario that our new poster is 100% correct and these Israelis were indeed truly, honestly happy: It means that they're glad someone else knows what it feels like to be attacked by Islamic radicals.

That's it. Given that Al Qaeda is known to have been behind the attacks, that's the most it could be. So this thread resurrection is nothing more than someone disagreeing with SoT on one trivial detail that's irrelevant to conspiracy theories about 9/11.

/thread.
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Old 1st June 2012, 05:49 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by ElMondoHummus View Post
Ok, worst case scenario that our new poster is 100% correct and these Israelis were indeed truly, honestly happy: It means that they're glad someone else knows what it feels like to be attacked by Islamic radicals.
Or it could mean they were happy because they were there to monitor a successful CIA/Mossad false flag operation.

Obviously that would be the correct "worst case scenario".

Quote:
That's it. Given that Al Qaeda is known to have been behind the attacks, that's the most it could be.
False. Since we don't know who was behind Al-Qaeda, this is an altogether meaningless point. For all you know, Al-Qaeda was and still is a CIA-sponsored hand-puppet.

Standard Government Truthbot response: "But, but, but... the government would have said so! Somebody would have come forward by now to let the cat out of the bag! The corporate media would have reported this! Alex Jones! Aliens! Black helicopters! Derpity derp derp!"

Thought I'd save you the trouble.
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Old 1st June 2012, 06:30 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert View Post
Or it could mean they were happy because they were there to monitor a successful CIA/Mossad false flag operation.
Why do all CT sound like they were written and/or executed by 5th Graders?

Yeah, the guys you pick to secretly monitor the world's most dangerously complex covert operation in history are going to be five college kids who plan on standing in the street dancing a (secret) jig while filming it?



Not to mention, why would you monitor anything? It's not like there wasn't going to be 24/7 news coverage. What would you need to monitor in the first place, were they going to make on the spot corrections?

"Evil Head Quarters this is Dancing Joo #6. Tell the second plane to hit higher on the building, the first plane almost missed the line of explosives. Over."

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Old 1st June 2012, 06:48 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert View Post
Or it could mean they were happy because they were there to monitor a successful CIA/Mossad false flag operation.

Obviously that would be the correct "worst case scenario".
Unless they were followers of Cthulhu... & they were really the ones behind it.... that would be worse case.



Quote:
False. Since we don't know who was behind Al-Qaeda, this is an altogether meaningless point. For all you know, Al-Qaeda was and still is a CIA-sponsored hand-puppet.

Standard Government Truthbot response: "But, but, but... the government would have said so! Somebody would have come forward by now to let the cat out of the bag! The corporate media would have reported this! Alex Jones! Aliens! Black helicopters! Derpity derp derp!"

Thought I'd save you the trouble.
We do know who was behind AQ. So... you're wrong.
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Old 1st June 2012, 06:50 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by Robrob View Post
Yeah, the guys you pick to secretly monitor the world's most dangerously complex covert operation in history are going to be five college kids who plan on standing in the street dancing a (secret) jig while filming it?
Sure, and why not? For all you know, they could have been waiting for that moment for years and couldn't contain their excitement.

You've probably watched too many James Bond movies, and now have the impression that all intelligence operatives are older gentlemen who are always suave and dapper while never showing any emotion. Turn off the TV, Government Truther.

Quote:
Not to mention, why would you monitor anything? It's not like there wasn't going to be 24/7 news coverage. What would you need to monitor in the first place, were they going to make on the spot corrections?
Who knows? Maybe they were involved in the plan in some way and just wanted to see it with their own eyes.

Quote:
"Evil Head Quarters this is Dancing Joo #6. Tell the second plane to hit higher on the building, the first plane almost missed the line of explosives. Over."
Right, because we all know the poor Jews would NEVER engage in any false flag terrorism plots.

Like I said, turn off the TV, take the TV dinner off your lap, get off the couch, and think for yourself for a change. Life is too short to be a mindless propaganda sponge.
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Old 1st June 2012, 06:56 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert View Post
Sure, and why not? For all you know, they could have been waiting for that moment for years and couldn't contain their excitement.

You've probably watched too many James Bond movies, and now have the impression that all intelligence operatives are older gentlemen who are always suave and dapper while never showing any emotion. Turn off the TV, Government Truther.



Who knows? Maybe they were involved in the plan in some way and just wanted to see it with their own eyes.



Right, because we all know the poor Jews would NEVER engage in any false flag terrorism plots.

Like I said, turn off the TV, take the TV dinner off your lap, get off the couch, and think for yourself for a change. Life is too short to be a mindless propaganda sponge.

Rather sums up your posts.
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Old 1st June 2012, 06:58 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by Redtail View Post
We do know who was behind AQ. So... you're wrong.
No, you only think you know who was behind Al-Qaeda.

Sorry, but you've been had.
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Old 1st June 2012, 08:14 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert View Post
No, you only think you know who was behind Al-Qaeda.

Sorry, but you've been had.
No, I know.
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Old 1st June 2012, 08:38 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by Redtail View Post
No, I know.
Hah, it was really SHC! Prove me wrong. If you disagree, you must be an SHC Truther.
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Old 1st June 2012, 09:49 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert View Post
No, you only think you know who was behind Al-Qaeda.

Sorry, but you've been had.
OHHHH the irony...
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Old 1st June 2012, 11:20 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by phantasmagoria7 View Post
The celebratory attitudes of the Israelis are documented in the FBI report which can be found online for anyone to read.

OK. I've decided to go looking for this report. I believe this is part of the report you're referring to.

Quote:
"According to [blank] one of the males appeared to be taking still photographs and video of the other males with the WTC in the background. All of the males appeared to be jovial in that they smiled, hugged one another, and gave "high fives." (See attached photos). As the vehicle later left that area, [blank] recorded the license plate as JRJ-13Y. Later that day when [blank] returned home, she provided the police with the information pertaining to the males."

Actual version, starting at the bottom of page 43 and continuing on page 44 (differences highlighted):

Quote:
According to T-1, one of the males appeared to be taking still photographs and video of the other males with the WTC in the background. All of the males appeared to be jovial in that they smiled, hugged one another, and gave "high fives." (See attached photos). As the vehicle later left that area, T-1 recorded the New Jersey State license plate as JRJ-13Y. Later that day when T-1's spouse returned home, T-1 provided the police with the information pertaining to the males.

There's some unnecessary editing on the part of whomever you got your version from, but it doesn't significantly alter the paragraph.

On to the second paragraph:

Quote:
"Film obtained from the 35mm camera of one of the detainees was later developed and processed by the Newark Division. The photos clearly corroborate [blank's] statements in that the Israelis are visibly happy on nearly all of the photgraphs [sic]. Further, the photos revealed that the Israelis had taken photographs from both the top of a van and from another location believed to be a parking lot near the Urban Moving Systems location in Weehawken, NJ."

Actual version, page 46, second and third paragraphs:

Quote:
Film obtained from the 35mm camera of one of the detainees was later developed and processed by FBI-NK. The photos depict [redacted] and [redacted] located at an observation point later determined to be the parking lot adjacent to the Doric Tower apartments located at 100 Manhattan Avenue in Union City, NJ. The three (3) Israelis, sitting together on top of a white van, are visibly smiling on at least three (3) of the photographs.

The photographs also revealed that all five (5) Israelis later observed the WTC burning from a location on top of the roof of an Urban Moving Systems warehouse located adjacent to the Urban Moving Systems office location described herein.

I didn't even bother to highlight the differences, because, as you can see, your version is almost complete BS.

I'm no document analyst, but nothing about the document on Scribd appears to indicate that it's an obvious fake. The version of snippets of the FBI report you've presented here do not appear to match what actually appeared in the FBI report. I therefore retract my previous, face-value acceptance and [re-]accept that there's no good evidence of "dancing Israelis". At best, there appears to be only documented evidence of smiling Israelis.

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Old 2nd June 2012, 12:20 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert View Post
Or it could mean they were happy because they were there to monitor a successful CIA/Mossad false flag operation.

Obviously that would be the correct "worst case scenario".
Since there is no evidence for any of this, that would obviously be the wrong "worst case scenario".
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Old 2nd June 2012, 12:30 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by Bell View Post
Since there is no evidence for any of this...
At least, not that you are aware of.

Big difference.
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Old 2nd June 2012, 12:33 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert View Post
At least, not that you are aware of.

Big difference.
You know something the rest of the world does not know?
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Old 2nd June 2012, 06:34 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert View Post
At least, not that you are aware of.

Big difference.
So absence of evidence IS evidence of absence after all. Good to know.
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Old 2nd June 2012, 06:56 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
I didn't even bother to highlight the differences, because, as you can see, your version is almost complete BS.
Color me suprised.

/sarc

It's unfortunate that Phantasmagoria has fled the thread after expressing his offense at my defense of the jewish people. I would have liked to hear him explain his assumptions about the alleged happiness of these innocent jews based on Blood Libel from anti-semitic websites.
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Old 2nd June 2012, 08:14 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
OK. I've decided to go looking for this report. I believe this is part of the report you're referring to.




Actual version, starting at the bottom of page 43 and continuing on page 44 (differences highlighted):




There's some unnecessary editing on the part of whomever you got your version from, but it doesn't significantly alter the paragraph.

On to the second paragraph:




Actual version, page 46, second and third paragraphs:




I didn't even bother to highlight the differences, because, as you can see, your version is almost complete BS.

I'm no document analyst, but nothing about the document on Scribd appears to indicate that it's an obvious fake. The version of snippets of the FBI report you've presented here do not appear to match what actually appeared in the FBI report. I therefore retract my previous, face-value acceptance and [re-]accept that there's no good evidence of "dancing Israelis". At best, there appears to be only documented evidence of smiling Israelis.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/62392807/D...ction-1-944861

Go to page 35 from that link; that's where I got it from. Your link is to Section 5 of the report; This is from Section 1. It's not doctored; it's the same report, but a different section.

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Old 2nd June 2012, 08:17 AM   #192
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"There are submissions to the Journal of 9/11 Studies, but that's about as convincing as submissions to the Journal of Intelligent Design Studies." –Noam Chomsky (and this can be said of ANY and all twoof papers)

Last edited by TruthersLie; 2nd June 2012 at 08:28 AM.
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Old 2nd June 2012, 08:25 AM   #193
phantasmagoria7
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Originally Posted by TruthersLie View Post
And you were just shown that it is a doctored report...

colour me surprised that a truther uses falsified data.

do you wish to change your characterisation of the report? Or will you continue on like a normal truther and ignore it?
It's a photocopy of the report, as you can see, if you actually click on the link.


Cl1mh4224rd was referring to Section 5 of the report; I've been referring to Section 1.

This comes from Page 35 of Section 1: "Film obtained from the 35mm camera of one of the detainees was later developed and processed by the Newark Division. The photos clearly corroborate [blank's] statements in that the Israelis are visibly happy on nearly all of the photgraphs [sic]. Further, the photos revealed that the Israelis had taken photographs from both the top of a van and from another location believed to be a parking lot near the Urban Moving Systems location in Weehawken, NJ."
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Old 2nd June 2012, 08:33 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by Bell View Post
You know something the rest of the world does not know?
He doesn't.
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Old 2nd June 2012, 08:39 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by phantasmagoria7 View Post
http://www.scribd.com/doc/62392807/D...ction-1-944861

Go to page 35 from that link; that's where I got it from. Your link is to Section 5 of the report; This is from Section 1. It's not doctored; it's the same report, but a different section.

Actually, it's not the same report. Both of our links appear to be a collection of individual reports. The one you quote from appears to be dated September 15, 2001. The one I've quoted from appears to be dated September 23, 2001.
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Old 2nd June 2012, 08:45 AM   #196
phantasmagoria7
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
Actually, it's not the same report. Both of our links appear to be a collection of individual reports. The one you quote from appears to be dated September 15, 2001. The one I've quoted from appears to be dated September 23, 2001.
My mistake, you're right. A collection of individual reports, but they're from the same collection of FBI documents regarding this matter. Nevertheless, as you can see, it's not a fake. I didn't want to post on here again, but I felt the need to point this out.

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Old 2nd June 2012, 02:17 PM   #197
Bell
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Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
He doesn't.
I rather hear the answer from SpringHallConvert.

So, what say you, SpringHallConvert, do you know something the rest of the world does not know?
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Old 2nd June 2012, 02:47 PM   #198
SpringHallConvert
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Originally Posted by Bell View Post
I rather hear the answer from SpringHallConvert.

So, what say you, SpringHallConvert, do you know something the rest of the world does not know?
Do you think the government knows something you don't, and if they did, do you believe they'd tell you?
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Old 2nd June 2012, 02:55 PM   #199
Bell
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Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert View Post
Do you think the government knows something you don't, and if they did, do you believe they'd tell you?
Which does not answer my question at all.

Do you know something the rest of the world does not know?
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Old 2nd June 2012, 02:56 PM   #200
DGM
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Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert View Post
Do you think the government knows something you don't, and if they did, do you believe they'd tell you?
What's your proof they won't?

Let's save time. You have none, I win.





Have you noticed yet how serious people take your posts?

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