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Tags ethnic cleansing , Sudan incidents , Sudan issues

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Old 8th May 2004, 11:57 AM   #41
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Iran has some elections (certianly more than many of it's naibours not that that means much). Britian is still a monarchy.

Fine then. Use the term "Free Nations" instead. Britian is a free nation. Iran is not.

The closest you can get is a club of nations wich can be joined by invite only which tends to limit your size somewhat.

Yep. That's right. Criterion for invitation: being a free nation with respect for human rights. Britian is. Iran is not. And don't tell me you can't tell the difference.

In some cases you have to work with dictators whether you like it or not.

The less, the better. And in any case try to deal directly with the people than with the government.

(there are propbaly two dictatorships at the moment that have nuclear wepons).

"Negotiation" with NK over its nuclear arsenal only led it to develop more quickly in order to have more weapons to blackmail the world with, or to try and sell weapons to Iran & co. "Negotiations" with Pakistan did nothing to stop its scientists selling weapons to others, either.

In both cases, the "negotiations" were complete failure. The result was the same: any aid given to try and limit their nuclear power was simply pocketed, while their supposed requirements to stop the spread of weapons was simply ignored.

More generally, you are of course correct that sometimes there's no choice but to deal with dictators. But that should be a last resort action; you shouldn't have an entire organization, like the UN, whose main purpose is to facilitate and legitimize such negotiations, and is staffed mostly by the ass-lickers of various dictators who were rewarded for their toadiness with a job in New York City.

I mean, sure, sometimes it is--say--no choice but to deal with mafia hit men, too, to get information on others. But you don't have a "Mafia-Police friendship & undestanding society" division in the Police department, where hitmen are regularly invited to criticize the police, give speeches in front of assembled graduates of the Police academy about what police work should really be like, or demand to be treated the same as the chief of police when they visit, now do you?

That is, for all intents and purposes, is what the UN is like: it's a union of about 20 firemen and 200 arsonists that's there to decide, by vote, whose fault is it that fires are started. The UN voting record is clear: it's all the firemens' fault. But when the "anti-fire commission" is headed by the most notorious arsonist alive, these votes don't mean much, do they?
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Old 8th May 2004, 12:37 PM   #42
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I also wanted to add about Cuba, if it were really a "product" of US imperialism, why isn't it the 51st state? Or at at least more subject to the US than it currently is?
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Old 8th May 2004, 02:04 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by c0rbin


Perhaps I painted too broad a stroke by saying: "European Imperialism is what made Africa what it is." Africa is a continent, after all comprised of diverse peoples and situations.

The statement was prompted by folks here who claim that the US is responsible for the bad turns by the regimes we help set up in the middle east and we are getting spanked in the world-view realm for it.

This is similar to the point that I was making when I referred to India, South Korea, Taiwan, Iran and South Africa in my posts to Rob Lister and to you. The results of Western interference/involvement cannot be predicted nor can a nation blame all it's failures on Western/US imperialism. Local culture and personalities are immensely important.

I was curious as to why people would be more forgiving of European empire building and less so of American empire building.

Well classic European colonialism in the third world is over and done with. Arguably the European Union is a new and rapidly expanding empire ruled by a transnational elite.

Today since the rise of national self consciousness throughout the world anything that looks like colonialism will be bitterly resented. It is also of course much easier to blame most of one's problems on foreigners than to attempt to address deep seated cultural defects.

Regarding Cuba, I think the tiny population suffers from a US anti-communist hard-line. Castro will not live for ever and I am curious to see if Cuba becomes another Haiti, or if the huge anti-Castro folks in the US (in Miami, if you get the jokes) will mount and effort to relieve the place.

I was mainly teasing about Cuba. My point, insofar as I had one, was to underline that there is no strong linkage between a nation's colonial experience and its subsequent development.
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Old 8th May 2004, 03:25 PM   #44
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Quote:
The results of Western interference/involvement cannot be predicted nor can a nation blame all it's failures on Western/US imperialism. Local culture and personalities are immensely important.
Cheers to level-headed discussion about this topic
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Old 9th May 2004, 04:09 AM   #45
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And now the political 'spin' begins...Sudan Denies Claims of 'Ethnic Cleansing' - Fri May 7,10:41 AM ET
Quote:
CAIRO, Egypt - Sudan's foreign minister denied Friday that government forces are engaged in a campaign of "ethnic cleansing" in the western Darfur region, after a prominent human rights group accused them of driving more than 1 million black Africans from their homes.

In Geneva, the U.N. rights chief said a government-backed "reign of terror" was taking place in Darfur province, with indications of war crimes and crimes against humanity. Bertrand Ramcharan said in a report to be presented to the Security Council that the abuses were "perpetrated by the government of Sudan and its proxy militia."
Yet, Sudan was elected Tuesday to serve a three-year term on the U.N. Human Rights Commission.


Gotta love politicians...
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Old 9th May 2004, 09:20 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by zenith-nadir
And now the political 'spin' begins...Sudan Denies Claims of 'Ethnic Cleansing' - Fri May 7,10:41 AM ET Yet, Sudan was elected Tuesday to serve a three-year term on the U.N. Human Rights Commission.


Gotta love politicians...
I guess your point is that when there are human rights abuses going on in a country and perhaps even with participation of the country's military, said country would be unfit for a place on the UN Human Rights Commission.

In light of recent revelations from Iraq, I guess that rules out the US as well.

That being said, I don't see the connection. A democratic vote resulted in a candidate being elected which you find unfit. Well, welcome to democracy.
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Old 9th May 2004, 09:32 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by DanishDynamite
I guess your point is that when there are human rights abuses going on in a country and perhaps even with participation of the country's military, said country would be unfit for a place on the UN Human Rights Commission. In light of recent revelations from Iraq, I guess that rules out the US as well. That being said, I don't see the connection. A democratic vote resulted in a candidate being elected which you find unfit. Well, welcome to democracy.
That is ridiculous. Several prison guards out of thousands abused Iraqi prisoners = Sudan displacing 1,000,000 people in an ethnic cleansing campaign. Ergo, Sudan is fit to be on the UN Human Rights Commission and America should be kicked off. Hehehe, nice try.
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Old 9th May 2004, 09:35 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by zenith-nadir
That is ridiculous. Several prison guards out of thousands abused Iraqi prisoners = Sudan displacing 1,000,000 people in an ethnic cleansing campaign. Ergo, Sudan is fit to be on the UN Human Rights Commission and America should be kicked off. Hehehe, nice try.
Would you let them if they had displaced 1 person? or Perhaps 2? Where are you going to draw the line?
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Old 9th May 2004, 09:38 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by zenith-nadir
That is ridiculous. Several prison guards out of thousands abused Iraqi prisoners = Sudan displacing 1,000,000 people in an ethnic cleansing campaign. Ergo, Sudan is fit to be on the UN Human Rights Commission and America should be kicked off. Hehehe, nice try.
That is ridiculous. The US military strips prisoners naked and wires them up, taking pictures to send home to their giggling friends all the while. This is perfectly admissable for country on the UN Human Rights Commission.

The Sudanese military may be involved in human rights abuses in an area of the country they don't control. This means they are unfit.

Get real.

[Edited to add: You forgot to address my question on democracy and the sour grapes it often leads to]
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Old 9th May 2004, 10:08 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by geni
Would you let them if they had displaced 1 person? or Perhaps 2? Where are you going to draw the line?
I think that's a good question. I don't think it should be considered a rhetorical question.

Where would you draw the line? Somewhere between 2 and one million?
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Old 9th May 2004, 10:24 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mycroft


I think that's a good question. I don't think it should be considered a rhetorical question.

Where would you draw the line? Somewhere between 2 and one million?
It is an interesting question in an abstract sense. I suggest you start a thread on it.

It is even possible that the UN rules of voting should be ammended to automatically negate the candidacy of countries viewed as "unfit" according to some criteria. Good luck with making such distinctions.
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Old 9th May 2004, 11:22 AM   #52
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Would you let them if they had displaced 1 person? or Perhaps 2? Where are you going to draw the line?

Well, that depends on the country. Try this handy guide:

# of Opponent's Deaths Needed to Produce one (1) UN condemnation, By Country:

israel............................................ ......1-10
US................................................ .......10-100
Other Western Countries...............100-1000
"Regular" third-world Countries...1000-10,000
Arab/Muslim dictatorships.............1,000,000 and up.
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Old 9th May 2004, 11:30 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
Would you let them if they had displaced 1 person? or Perhaps 2? Where are you going to draw the line?

Well, that depends on the country. Try this handy guide:

# of Opponent's Deaths Needed to Produce one (1) UN condemnation, By Country:

israel............................................ ......1-10
US................................................ .......10-100
Other Western Countries...............100-1000
"Regular" third-world Countries...1000-10,000
Arab/Muslim dictatorships.............1,000,000 and up.
Source? Relevance?

If only this scale had existed when the the US was nuking 100's of thousands of civilians in Japan.

On second thought, it would still have been irrelevant.
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Old 9th May 2004, 11:45 AM   #54
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Source?

50 years of hypocritical UN condemnations.

Relevance?

It is sort of relevant to the fact that the UN is far more concerned with Americans abusing a few dozen Iraqis than with the Sudanese murdering and displacing millions.
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Old 9th May 2004, 11:52 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
Source?

50 years of hypocritical UN condemnations.

Relevance?

It is sort of relevant to the fact that the UN is far more concerned with Americans abusing a few dozen Iraqis than with the Sudanese murdering and displacing millions.
So.

No source.

No relevance.

Par for the course for you.
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Old 9th May 2004, 12:51 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by DanishDynamite
It is even possible that the UN rules of voting should be ammended to automatically negate the candidacy of countries viewed as "unfit" according to some criteria. Good luck with making such distinctions.
Gotta love Europeans. Serb massacres of Kosovo Albanians; not our problem, the UN will handle it...jews want to build an anti-suicide bomber fence; an apartheid war crime I tell ya, see you in the Hague!...Sudan slaughters thousands and displaces a million human beings; how dare you question democracy at the UN and the democratic vote that put Sudan on the UN Human Rights Council!

If a country is a know dictatorship, like Sudan, sponsors terrorism, like Sudan and guilty of documented ethnic cleansing, like Sudan, I think it should be pretty easy to "make a distinction" that they may be unfit for a spot on a Human Rights Council...
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Old 9th May 2004, 01:07 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by zenith-nadir
[b]Gotta love Europeans.
Gotta love blowhards.

(Irrelevant rant snipped)

Quote:
If a country is a know dictatorship, like Sudan, sponsors terrorism, like Sudan and guilty of documented ethnic cleansing, like Sudan, I think it should be pretty easy to "make a distinction" that they may be unfit for a spot on a Human Rights Council...
If a country sponsors terrorism, like the US (see Northern Ireland) and is guilty of documented ethnic cleansing, like the US (see the killing of American Indians), I think it should be pretty easy to "make a distinction" that they may be unfit for a spot on a Human Rights Council...

We can all play this pointless game.

You still haven't commented on whether you would rather see the democratic process abolished in the UN or not.
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Old 9th May 2004, 01:39 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by DanishDynamite
If a country sponsors terrorism, like the US (see Northern Ireland)
Now America is guilty of terrorism in Northern Ireland!
Quote:
Originally posted by DanishDynamite ..and is guilty of documented ethnic cleansing, like the US (see the killing of American Indians)
America is no better than the Sudanese today because they ethnically cleansed Indians 120 years ago!
Quote:
Originally posted by DanishDynamite We can all play this pointless game.
It's only pointless to your broken moral compass because you equate Sudan, ethnic cleansing and displacement of 1,000,000 people as trivial compared to the crimes of the USA!
Quote:
Originally posted by DanishDynamite You still haven't commented on whether you would rather see the democratic process abolished in the UN or not.
There is nothing to comment about, my legitimate question about the fitness of Sudan to sit on a Human Rights Council has been turned by you into an assult on the democratic process at the UN. Nice deflection but ineffectual.
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Old 9th May 2004, 01:50 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by DanishDynamite
That is ridiculous. The US military strips prisoners naked and wires them up, taking pictures to send home to their giggling friends all the while. This is perfectly admissable for country on the UN Human Rights Commission.
The US military is vigorously prosecuting those involved. The Sudan says, "Move along, nothing to see here. Those 1 million people just disappeared or went to Chad on a holiday. we don't need no stinkin' investigation". You (and all of Europe, it seems) are quite willing to turn a blind eye, as Europe has done in the past.

Quote:
The Sudanese military may be involved in human rights abuses in an area of the country they don't control. This means they are unfit.
Call Johnny Cochran, you're on the OJ jury!

Did you read the HRW report I posted earlier in this thread?

I can't understand the attitude in the EU. Every time the US unintentionally kills a civilian, they take to the streets demanding the US submit itself to the World Court. Serbs partake in government planned and executed slaughter of tens of thousands, or the Sudan does the same in the millions, and they couldn't care less. Our NATO allies had to be dragged kicking and screaming into Kosovo. If anyone can make any sense of this, please enlighten me.
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Old 9th May 2004, 02:14 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by zenith-nadir
Now America is guilty of terrorism in Northern Ireland!
]Noraid

Some comments on Noraid
Quote:
America is no better than the Sudanese today because they ethnically cleansed Indians 120 years ago!
The US undoubtedly cleansed Indians from their land. Do you deny it? How many years must pass before such cleansing is no longer relevant? Dare I mention whether the Nazis are still relevant?
Quote:
It's only pointless to your broken moral compass because you equate Sudan, ethnic cleansing and displacement of 1,000,000 people as trivial compared to the crimes of the USA!
It is pointless because it is irrelevant.
Quote:
There is nothing to comment about, my legitimate question about the fitness of Sudan to sit on a Human Rights Council has been turned by you into an assult on the democratic process at the UN. Nice deflection but ineffectual.
It is not a deflection.

You apparently believe that there should be some minimum requirements above those stated by UN rules, for a member to be elected. You have yet to state these new rules. I was simply showing that the determination of such new rules would be difficult, if the US should still be allowed.
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Old 9th May 2004, 02:21 PM   #61
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WildCat:
Quote:
The US military is vigorously prosecuting those involved. The Sudan says, "Move along, nothing to see here. Those 1 million people just disappeared or went to Chad on a holiday. we don't need no stinkin' investigation".
And? How does this make the US military any less of a human rights abuser?
Quote:
You (and all of Europe, it seems) are quite willing to turn a blind eye, as Europe has done in the past.
Could you elaborate?
Quote:
Did you read the HRW report I posted earlier in this thread?
No. Could you highlight the interesting bits?
Quote:
I can't understand the attitude in the EU. Every time the US unintentionally kills a civilian, they take to the streets demanding the US submit itself to the World Court. Serbs partake in government planned and executed slaughter of tens of thousands, or the Sudan does the same in the millions, and they couldn't care less. Our NATO allies had to be dragged kicking and screaming into Kosovo. If anyone can make any sense of this, please enlighten me.
I guess it would be better if you could drop the generalized put-downs and actually provide a few links to the things you are unhappy about.
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Old 9th May 2004, 03:16 PM   #62
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Quote:
You apparently believe that there should be some minimum requirements above those stated by UN rules, for a member to be elected. You have yet to state these new rules. I was simply showing that the determination of such new rules would be difficult, if the US should still be allowed.
I am not so sure that the US is really that interested in being a part of an organization that turns a blind eye to ETHNIC CLEANSING that is occuring RIGHT NOW and could be stopped if something were DONE ABOUT IT.

(forgive the caps, I am a little dismayed)

In a conflict, I expect humans to behave poorly, however, you might have noticed that it has shaken up a very "stay-the-course" administration over here and people are outraged. It will not stand.

Now please point me to images of anyone demonstrating their outrage at people being displaced in Africa...holding breath.
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Old 9th May 2004, 03:58 PM   #63
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c0rbin:
Quote:
I am not so sure that the US is really that interested in being a part of an organization that turns a blind eye to ETHNIC CLEANSING that is occuring RIGHT NOW and could be stopped if something were DONE ABOUT IT.

(forgive the caps, I am a little dismayed)
What you and every other anti-UN American seem to be forgetting is that the UN has no power and no military force except as far as the members vote to sanction the use of such power or such force by member states for a specific purpose.

That's it.

If you are unhappy with such decisions, or the lack of such decisions, blaming the UN is as irrational as blaming the Congress for not putting down the LA riots.
Quote:
In a conflict, I expect humans to behave poorly, however, you might have noticed that it has shaken up a very "stay-the-course" administration over here and people are outraged. It will not stand.
Sorry, not understood.
Quote:
Now please point me to images of anyone demonstrating their outrage at people being displaced in Africa...holding breath.
If you happen to be reading US newspapers I hope you can hold your breath for quite a while.
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Old 9th May 2004, 08:32 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by DanishDynamite
No. Could you highlight the interesting bits?
It's a very long report. I highlighted quite a few bits in my post on page one of this thread. If you won't read it, it only further proves my point about the callousness of Europeans in general about human rights abuses that can't be somehow blamed on the US.

If you won't open your eyes, I can't make you see. Please read the report.
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Old 10th May 2004, 03:48 AM   #65
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I can see now that DanishDynamite is not really interested in Sudan or ethnic cleansing. Any argument to deflect that reality is more palatable to DanishDynamite than actually questioning Sudan's fitness to be an member of a UN Human Rights Council.

Hey that's cool, at least we all know now where Danish stands on human rights...
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Old 10th May 2004, 07:26 AM   #66
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What you and every other anti-UN American seem to be forgetting is that the UN has no power and no military force except as far as the members vote to sanction the use of such power or such force by member states for a specific purpose.
I am not so much anti-UN, just wondering what good the organization is anymore. Where is the uproar against regimes who maintain maintain control though violence without recourse? Issue a decree, or somthing--anything.

Quote:
If you happen to be reading US newspapers I hope you can hold your breath for quite a while.
So no images of people in Europe demonstrating the horrors that occur in Africa or North Korea? Where are the masses flocking to the streets in support of displaced and ethnically cleansed black and yellow people? Quite a while indeed.

But damn the US for taking a stand, however poorly executed, damn them to hell!

You are happy being not anti-oppression, but anti-American.
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Old 10th May 2004, 08:04 AM   #67
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c0rbin:What you and every other anti-UN American seem to be forgetting is that the UN has no power and no military force except as far as the members vote to sanction the use of such power or such force by member states for a specific purpose.

That's it.


But you'd think that, even so, they would at least condemn Sudan's ethnic cleansing of blacks instead of welcoming it to the human rights commission.

If you are unhappy with such decisions, or the lack of such decisions, blaming the UN is as irrational as blaming the Congress for not putting down the LA riots.

The US Congress did not welcome the leaders of the riots to head its domestic security commission, did it, or to chair meetings about how awful the police are.

The UN, on the other hand...
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Old 10th May 2004, 08:18 AM   #68
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How does this make the US military any less of a human rights abuser?

It doesn't, nor does anybody claim it does, but your apoplectic reaction to the US abuse, together with your silence and disinterest in that of Sudan (or Congo, or NK, or...) shows that YOUR real interest is not in human right abuses per se, but only in human right abuses that can be blamed on the US.

Could you elaborate?

Well, I've seen tons of protests in Europe against US "imperialism" and "human rights abuse", and against israeli "racist policies". There hasn't been one mass protest about Sudan's or NK's genocidally racist human rights abuse.

More seriously, remember the mess in the former Yugoslavia? Europe stood idly by and did absolutely nothing; until the US intervenes and stopped the massacres.

No. Could you highlight the interesting bits?

DD, this is a report detailing the massacre, expulsion, and starvation of hundreds of thousands of people.

Not only didn't you care to find out anything about this atrocity yourself, but when someone gives you the evidence, you are not interested enough in even reading it, and want other people to point out the "intersting bits" to you.

The only conclusion one can reach from such indifference is that you could not care less about the hundreds of thousands of victims in the Sudan.

Not surprising, really: if you can't blame the US for their death, who cares?
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Old 10th May 2004, 04:29 PM   #69
DanishDynamite
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Quote:
Originally posted by WildCat

It's a very long report. I highlighted quite a few bits in my post on page one of this thread. If you won't read it, it only further proves my point about the callousness of Europeans in general about human rights abuses that can't be somehow blamed on the US.

If you won't open your eyes, I can't make you see. Please read the report.
I didn't say I wouldn't read it. I just said I hadn't. Your put-down regarding how this "further proves my point about the callousness of Europeans in general about human rights abuses" is unworthy of you.

Anyway, I'll read it.
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Old 10th May 2004, 04:30 PM   #70
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Originally posted by zenith-nadir
I can see now that DanishDynamite is not really interested in Sudan or ethnic cleansing. Any argument to deflect that reality is more palatable to DanishDynamite than actually questioning Sudan's fitness to be an member of a UN Human Rights Council.

Hey that's cool, at least we all know now where Danish stands on human rights...
You can't address my questions, eh?
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Old 10th May 2004, 04:36 PM   #71
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Originally posted by DanishDynamite
I didn't say I wouldn't read it. I just said I hadn't. Your put-down regarding how this "further proves my point about the callousness of Europeans in general about human rights abuses" is unworthy of you.

Anyway, I'll read it.
I didn't mean it as a put down, though it could have been worded better and I apologize for any offense you took over it. I really don't want to come across that way.

Please comment on the report after you've read it.
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Old 10th May 2004, 04:37 PM   #72
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Originally posted by c0rbin


I am not so much anti-UN, just wondering what good the organization is anymore. Where is the uproar against regimes who maintain maintain control though violence without recourse? Issue a decree, or somthing--anything.
"Issue a decree"? Is that the sort of dictatorial powers you would like to see?
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So no images of people in Europe demonstrating the horrors that occur in Africa or North Korea? Where are the masses flocking to the streets in support of displaced and ethnically cleansed black and yellow people? Quite a while indeed.
There have been demonstrations of this kind. They haven't been very large, though.
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But damn the US for taking a stand, however poorly executed, damn them to hell!
Oh get over your persecution complex. I think that on the whole, the world is better off with the US as the sole superpower than many other states I could think off. However, I still calls them as I sees them.
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You are happy being not anti-oppression, but anti-American.
Sigh.
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Old 10th May 2004, 04:42 PM   #73
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Originally posted by Skeptic
But you'd think that, even so, they would at least condemn Sudan's ethnic cleansing of blacks instead of welcoming it to the human rights commission.
Who is "they"? The UN votes democratically, except for the Security Council where certain countries have vetos.
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The US Congress did not welcome the leaders of the riots to head its domestic security commission, did it, or to chair meetings about how awful the police are.

The UN, on the other hand...
The US Congress welcomes whoever can get enough votes for a position.
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Old 10th May 2004, 04:51 PM   #74
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Originally posted by Skeptic
It doesn't, nor does anybody claim it does, but your apoplectic reaction to the US abuse, together with your silence and disinterest in that of Sudan (or Congo, or NK, or...) shows that YOUR real interest is not in human right abuses per se, but only in human right abuses that can be blamed on the US.
No it doesn't. It shows that I sometimes tire of the constant heralding of the US as the greatest thing since sliced bread. I try to inject a bit of perspective.
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Well, I've seen tons of protests in Europe against US "imperialism" and "human rights abuse", and against israeli "racist policies". There hasn't been one mass protest about Sudan's or NK's genocidally racist human rights abuse.

More seriously, remember the mess in the former Yugoslavia? Europe stood idly by and did absolutely nothing; until the US intervenes and stopped the massacres.
I agree that Yugoslavia was an embarrassment for Western Europe.

Hence my support for a much larger military and for a greater integration of the EU.
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DD, this is a report detailing the massacre, expulsion, and starvation of hundreds of thousands of people.

Not only didn't you care to find out anything about this atrocity yourself, but when someone gives you the evidence, you are not interested enough in even reading it, and want other people to point out the "intersting bits" to you.

The only conclusion one can reach from such indifference is that you could not care less about the hundreds of thousands of victims in the Sudan.

Not surprising, really: if you can't blame the US for their death, who cares?
Good grief. Sometimes I have other things to do than read links here.

I'll read the bloody report.
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Old 10th May 2004, 04:53 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by WildCat

I didn't mean it as a put down, though it could have been worded better and I apologize for any offense you took over it. I really don't want to come across that way.

Please comment on the report after you've read it.
Thanks, WildCat.

I'll have a look at it, but it won't be tonight (its 2:00 AM here).
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Old 10th May 2004, 10:41 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally posted by DanishDynamite
Who is "they"? The UN votes democratically, except for the Security Council where certain countries have vetos.
The US Congress welcomes whoever can get enough votes for a position.
How many votes did Sudan get?

specifically.
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Old 11th May 2004, 03:21 AM   #77
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Originally posted by aerocontrols
How many votes did Sudan get? specifically.
Quote:
source: Sudan was one of 14 countries elected to the commission by the 54-member Economic and Social Council.
Quote:
source: Finland’s U.N. Ambassador Marjatta Rasi, the president of the 53-nation Economic and Social Council, then noted that the slate of candidates from Africa was uncontested, and it was approved by consensus as she banged her gavel.
Quote:
source: The United Nations Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC) elected 14 countries today to serve on the Commission on Human Rights, the UN's highest forum for examining civil rights around the world. Winning by acclamation were Guinea, Kenya, Sudan and Togo from the African Group;
UN Economic and Social Council Members- UN website
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Old 11th May 2004, 08:23 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by zenith-nadir


UN Economic and Social Council Members- UN website
I think you're missing my point. It seems to me that Sudan got 0 votes.

The point was that the selection of these members seems to be by a somewhat nondemocratic process.

Doesn't it seem so to you?
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Old 11th May 2004, 08:39 AM   #79
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Quote:
Oh get over your persecution complex.
I just calls 'em like I sees 'em. Like the paranoid man says: "I wouldn't be so paranoid if people weren't out to get me."

You just let us know when you feel train bombings in Europe get out of hand.

PS: "decree" it turns out was the wrong word. Apologies. The last thing I would want to see is a dictator, however benign. I would like to see politics step aside in favor of doing something about genocide.
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Old 11th May 2004, 09:56 AM   #80
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OK, WildCat, I've read the Summary part of the link you provided. If the reported facts are true, which I have no reason to doubt, it certainly qualifies the Sudanese government as a human rights abuser. Very sad reading.

One can only wonder why the African regional group decided to support the candidacy of Sudan.
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