Joe Biden: Middle Class "Buried" in the last Four Years

ravdin · 3rd October 2012, 12:37 PM

Our gaffetastic veep is at it again:

Quote:

How they can justify raising taxes on the middle class that's been buried the last four years...?

With the much maligned "you didn't build that" slip I can at least see the case that Obama meant to say something else. What on earth was Joe Biden trying to say here?

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Ziggurat · 3rd October 2012, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by ravdin

What on earth was Joe Biden trying to say here?

Hillary in 2016?

IXP · 3rd October 2012, 12:46 PM

It's about time they were buried, the middle class has been dead since Reagan was elected.

IXP

Spindrift · 3rd October 2012, 12:53 PM

That's just crazy Uncle Joe Biden and we all know that his mouth operates independently of his brain.

Tiktaalik · 3rd October 2012, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Hillary in 2016?

Yup.

geni · 3rd October 2012, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Hillary in 2016?

I can't see the democrats wanting a 73 year old candidate in any case.

Tricky · 3rd October 2012, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by ravdin

With the much maligned "you didn't build that" slip I can at least see the case that Obama meant to say something else. What on earth was Joe Biden trying to say here?

That the recession has been much harder on the middle class than on the wealthy, and we need to make it easer for them.

Of course, it is being spun by the right wing as if he is saying Obama has failed. What a shock.

Brainster · 3rd October 2012, 01:15 PM

They warned me if I voted for McCain, we'd have an idiot as VP... and they were right!

Spindrift · 3rd October 2012, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by Brainster

They warned me if I voted for McCain, we'd have an idiot as VP... and they were right!

He's not an idiot, he's nuts. There's a difference.

ehcks · 3rd October 2012, 01:27 PM

I'm not sure I understand. Sure, "buried" was a poor word, but the middle class have been doing poorly for more than just four years...

Ziggurat · 3rd October 2012, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by Tricky

Of course, it is being spun by the right wing as if he is saying Obama has failed. What a shock.

Yup, those far right fringe wackos are really jumping on Biden.

A'isha · 3rd October 2012, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Yup, those far right fringe wackos are really jumping on Biden.

Oh noes! Jay Leno is mocking Biden now! The Democrats are truly in trouble!

johnny karate · 3rd October 2012, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Yup, those far right fringe wackos are really jumping on Biden.

Excellent point. There a few more respected and incisive political editorials than the revered Jay Leno monologue. Of course, we won't have a true measure of the gravity of this situation until Jimmy Fallon weighs in.

m-n-m · 3rd October 2012, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Hillary in 2016?

I'd take Hillary over sarah palin or michele bachmann everyday. Hey Ziggurat, why do you think idiotic, anti intellectual women (palin, bachmann) gravitate toward your party, and become stars? Why are they consumed with so much contempt, while being soooo hypocritical? Thoughts?

A'isha · 3rd October 2012, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by johnny karate

Excellent point. There a few more respected and incisive political editorials than the revered Jay Leno monologue. Of course, we won't have a true measure of the gravity of this situation until Jimmy Fallon weighs in.

To be fair, Jay Leno making fun of a politician during his Tonight Show monologue is unprecedented. This could be just the game-changer that the Romney campaign has been waiting for!

Tricky · 3rd October 2012, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by ANTPogo

Oh noes! Jay Leno is mocking Biden now! The Democrats are truly in trouble!

After all, talk show hosts are always careful never to poke fun at Democrats. I'll bet you can't even remember them cracking a joke during the Clinton-Lewinski scandal.

Sure, it's worth a joke or two. But it's still pulling a sentence or two out of context. Not even in the same universe as Romney's 47% video.

johnny karate · 3rd October 2012, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by ANTPogo

To be fair, Jay Leno making fun of a politician during his Tonight Show monologue is unprecedented. This could be just the game-changer that the Romney campaign has been waiting for!

That's a good point. I'd be hard-pressed to come up with an instance in which a comedian ever mocked a politician, let alone a sitting vice-president.

This will be a day long remembered in the annals of politics.

Spindrift · 3rd October 2012, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by johnny karate

Excellent point. There a few more respected and incisive political editorials than the revered Jay Leno monologue. Of course, we won't have a true measure of the gravity of this situation until Jimmy Fallon weighs in.

And not one of his bests. I like this one better.

Quote:

Referring to McCain's admonishment of Bachmann's comments regarding Hillary Clinton aide Huma Abedin, the Tonight Show host quipped, "When the guy who picked Sarah Palin says you are crazy, you are crazy.

Ziggurat · 3rd October 2012, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by ANTPogo

Oh noes! Jay Leno is mocking Biden now! The Democrats are truly in trouble!

I never said they were in trouble because of this. In fact, it won't really matter at all: Biden is a buffoon, the economy sucks, everybody knows that, and this is nothing new. My point, which you seem either unaware of or determined to avoid, is that it's not just the right wing which interprets Biden's comments as implicating Obama, contrary to Tricky's implication.

NotJesus · 3rd October 2012, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by ANTPogo

To be fair, Jay Leno making fun of a politician during his Tonight Show monologue is unprecedented. This could be just the game-changer that the Romney campaign has been waiting for!

And the monologue is the part of the show Jay's geezer audience is actually awake for. We're dooomed!

Spindrift · 3rd October 2012, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

I never said they were in trouble because of this. In fact, it won't really matter at all: Biden is a buffoon, the economy sucks, everybody knows that, and this is nothing new. My point, which you seem either unaware of or determined to avoid, is that it's not just the right wing which interprets Biden's comments as implicating Obama, contrary to Tricky's implication.

So lots of people misinterpreted. And?

Ziggurat · 3rd October 2012, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by m-n-m

I'd take Hillary over sarah palin or michele bachmann everyday. Hey Ziggurat, why do you think idiotic, anti intellectual women (palin, bachmann) gravitate toward your party, and become stars? Why are they consumed with so much contempt, while being soooo hypocritical? Thoughts?

My thoughts are that you seem intent on trying to personalize this, and in changing the topic, neither of which I have any interest in doing in this thread.

A'isha · 3rd October 2012, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

My point, which you seem either unaware of or determined to avoid,

No, I'm mocking your point. There's a difference.

Quote:

is that it's not just the right wing which interprets Biden's comments as implicating Obama, contrary to Tricky's implication.

Yes, it's the right wing, and Jay Leno. This will surely turn Romney's sagging poll numbers right around.

Tricky · 3rd October 2012, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

My point, which you seem either unaware of or determined to avoid, is that it's not just the right wing which interprets Biden's comments as implicating Obama, contrary to Tricky's implication.

Then you should be able to find some left-wing commentators or politicians (not professional comics) who are apologizing for it or are trying to make it clear that they disagree with Biden, right?

Ziggurat · 3rd October 2012, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by Tricky

Then you should be able to find some left-wing commentators or politicians (not professional comics) who are apologizing for it or are trying to make it clear that they disagree with Biden, right?

Why should I do that? That's not what I claimed. Anyways, it's Joe Biden. People have long-since given up on apologizing for Biden. Pretty much everybody either just makes fun of him or ignores him. I'm not demanding that anybody do more than that.

Ziggurat · 3rd October 2012, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by ANTPogo

No, I'm mocking your point. There's a difference.

You're right, my mistake. I keep expecting whit to be part of mockery, but it's not technically required.

Tricky · 3rd October 2012, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Why should I do that? That's not what I claimed.

Of course. Nothing anyone replies to you is ever what you claimed.

But here's what you said:

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Yup, those far right fringe wackos are really jumping on Biden.

The implication, clear to anyone, is that it is the left wing jumping on Biden. But oh no NO! That is NOT what you meant at ALL! You're so misunderstood.

ravdin · 3rd October 2012, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by Tricky

After all, talk show hosts are always careful never to poke fun at Democrats. I'll bet you can't even remember them cracking a joke during the Clinton-Lewinski scandal.

Sure, it's worth a joke or two. But it's still pulling a sentence or two out of context. Not even in the same universe as Romney's 47% video.

I'll accept that Biden's words were taken out of context if we can agree that the man suffers from an acute case of verbal diarrhea and we can't take anything he says seriously.

Ziggurat · 3rd October 2012, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by Tricky

The implication, clear to anyone, is that it is the left wing jumping on Biden. But oh no NO! That is NOT what you meant at All! You're so misunderstood.

No, the obvious implication is that Leno isn't right-wing. You have created a false dichotomy: people don't have to be either right-wing or left-wing. I wouldn't describe Leno as either, I think he's pretty centrist. But unless you want to claim that he's right-wing (and you haven't done so), then his jab at Biden undermines your original point that the attack is just from the right.

Tricky · 3rd October 2012, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by ravdin

I'll accept that Biden's words were taken out of context if we can agree that the man suffers from an acute case of verbal diarrhea and we can't take anything he says seriously.

He's certainly no good at off-the-cuff comments, but if you drill past his sloppy language, his points have substance.

johnny karate · 3rd October 2012, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Tricky

Sure, it's worth a joke or two. But it's still pulling a sentence or two out of context. Not even in the same universe as Romney's 47% video.

I would really hate to be an intern at the RNC right now. The grueling hours they must have to spend poring over every video and audio clip, every quote, desperately trying to find something - anything - to make people forget the complete and utter disdain Romney expressed for half the country.

m-n-m · 3rd October 2012, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

My thoughts are that you seem intent on trying to personalize this, and in changing the topic, neither of which I have any interest in doing in this thread.

You introduced Hilary, not me. So I'm on point.

And coincidently, this is what I expect romney's talking points to be after he gets his ass handed to him. Preach accountability, but always play the victim.

Tricky · 3rd October 2012, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

No, the obvious implication is that Leno isn't right-wing. You have created a false dichotomy: people don't have to be either right-wing or left-wing. I wouldn't describe Leno as either, I think he's pretty centrist. But unless you want to claim that he's right-wing (and you haven't done so), then his jab at Biden undermines your original point that the attack is just from the right.

"Erm... uh... what I meant was, 'Your Majesty shines out like a shaft of gold when all around is dark.'"

ravdin · 3rd October 2012, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by Tricky

He's certainly no good at off-the-cuff comments, but if you drill past his sloppy language, his points have substance.

That the middle class has been hard hit over the last four years? There's no disagreement here! It's just that most politicians running for office don't mindlessly parrot their opponent's talking points.

Cleon · 3rd October 2012, 02:14 PM

This thread is the most relevant Jay Leno has been since Conan left NBC.

A'isha · 3rd October 2012, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by johnny karate

I would really hate to be an intern at the RNC right now. The grueling hours they must have to spend poring over every video and audio clip, every quote, desperately trying to find something - anything - to make people forget the complete and utter disdain Romney expressed for half the country.

"Look! Over there! A five-year-old speech Obama made that the media widely reported on at the time! A joke Jay Leno made in his monologue! Please look...why aren't you looking?!"

Ziggurat · 3rd October 2012, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by m-n-m

You introduced Hilary, not me. So I'm on point.

Context, my dear boy, context. And why so angry? Does it really pain you that someone makes fun of Joe Biden? Joe Biden, for FSM's sake! Is he really the newest sacred cow?

Tricky · 3rd October 2012, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by ravdin

That the middle class has been hard hit over the last four years? There's no disagreement here! It's just that most politicians running for office don't mindlessly parrot their opponent's talking points.

Neither Biden nor Obama have denied that the last four years have been tough. That is certainly not a new meme to the Democratic camp. But the Republican meme is to add "...and it's Obama's fault". I don't think Biden was 'mindlessly parroting' that position.

And as you say, you agree with him. Most people agree with him. But yeah, it's worth a few jokes.

sir drinks-a-lot · 3rd October 2012, 02:18 PM

Hah! That is hilarious.

He spoke the truth by mistake.

Olowkow · 3rd October 2012, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by ravdin

I'll accept that Biden's words were taken out of context if we can agree that the man suffers from an acute case of verbal diarrhea and we can't take anything he says seriously.

I think he is just a simple truthful person who really cares about his country. I honestly don't believe Biden would be a good president, but I would love to sit around a blue collar bar with him and hear his story telling.

I'm not even sure what the hilited phrase means, but he seems to mean that the middle class has been buried by the BS that a do nothing congress has imposed on it. I somehow find it difficult to imagine that he meant that the middle class has been buried by the president...given that he would like for Obama to be re-elected.

My own opinion is that our country has stagnated because of the house and the senate's unwillingness to think outside the box. It has been 4 years of "highest priority is to make Obama a 1 term president". That's what has buried us, not Obama. As for republicans' motivations, I used to think I understood them, but now I'm not sure. I think their reasoning is a lot baser than I had ever allowed myself to believe.

3rd October 2012, 12:40 PM	#2
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 48,634	Originally Posted by ravdin What on earth was Joe Biden trying to say here? Hillary in 2016?
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

3rd October 2012, 12:46 PM	#3
IXP Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,395	It's about time they were buried, the middle class has been dead since Reagan was elected. IXP
IXP Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,395	__________________ "When reason sleeps, monsters are produced" -- Goya, title of etching that is my avatar

3rd October 2012, 12:53 PM	#4
Spindrift Time Person of the Year, 2006 Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Right here! Posts: 19,246	That's just crazy Uncle Joe Biden and we all know that his mouth operates independently of his brain.
	__________________ I've always believed that cluelessness evolved as an adaptation to allow the truly appalling to live with themselves. - G. B. Trudeau A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. - Kay, Men in Black. Enjoy every sandwich. - Warren Zevon

3rd October 2012, 01:15 PM	#8
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 18,358	They warned me if I voted for McCain, we'd have an idiot as VP... and they were right!
	__________________ My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.

3rd October 2012, 01:22 PM	#9
Spindrift Time Person of the Year, 2006 Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Right here! Posts: 19,246	Originally Posted by Brainster They warned me if I voted for McCain, we'd have an idiot as VP... and they were right! He's not an idiot, he's nuts. There's a difference.
	__________________ I've always believed that cluelessness evolved as an adaptation to allow the truly appalling to live with themselves. - G. B. Trudeau A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. - Kay, Men in Black. Enjoy every sandwich. - Warren Zevon

3rd October 2012, 12:54 PM	#5
Tiktaalik Half True Scotsperson Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,666	Originally Posted by Ziggurat Hillary in 2016? Yup.

3rd October 2012, 12:57 PM	#6
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 28,185	Originally Posted by Ziggurat Hillary in 2016? I can't see the democrats wanting a 73 year old candidate in any case.

3rd October 2012, 01:06 PM	#7
Tricky Briefly immortal Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W Bench Posts: 44,381	Originally Posted by ravdin With the much maligned "you didn't build that" slip I can at least see the case that Obama meant to say something else. What on earth was Joe Biden trying to say here? That the recession has been much harder on the middle class than on the wealthy, and we need to make it easer for them. Of course, it is being spun by the right wing as if he is saying Obama has failed. What a shock.

3rd October 2012, 01:27 PM	#10
ehcks Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302	I'm not sure I understand. Sure, "buried" was a poor word, but the middle class have been doing poorly for more than just four years...
ehcks Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302	__________________ Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor

3rd October 2012, 01:30 PM	#11
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 48,634	Originally Posted by Tricky Of course, it is being spun by the right wing as if he is saying Obama has failed. What a shock. Yup, those far right fringe wackos are really jumping on Biden.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

3rd October 2012, 01:36 PM	#12
A'isha Miss Schoolteacher Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 15,221	Originally Posted by Ziggurat Yup, those far right fringe wackos are really jumping on Biden. Oh noes! Jay Leno is mocking Biden now! The Democrats are truly in trouble!
	__________________ When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes - Desiderius Erasmus "Does [A'isha] want to end up in a gas chamber, I wonder? Because this is where the whole thing will end" - McHrozni

3rd October 2012, 01:40 PM	#13
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 14,652	Originally Posted by Ziggurat Yup, those far right fringe wackos are really jumping on Biden. Excellent point. There a few more respected and incisive political editorials than the revered Jay Leno monologue. Of course, we won't have a true measure of the gravity of this situation until Jimmy Fallon weighs in.

3rd October 2012, 01:42 PM	#14
m-n-m Scholar Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 120	Originally Posted by Ziggurat Hillary in 2016? I'd take Hillary over sarah palin or michele bachmann everyday. Hey Ziggurat, why do you think idiotic, anti intellectual women (palin, bachmann) gravitate toward your party, and become stars? Why are they consumed with so much contempt, while being soooo hypocritical? Thoughts?
m-n-m Scholar Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 120

3rd October 2012, 01:42 PM	#15
A'isha Miss Schoolteacher Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 15,221	Originally Posted by johnny karate Excellent point. There a few more respected and incisive political editorials than the revered Jay Leno monologue. Of course, we won't have a true measure of the gravity of this situation until Jimmy Fallon weighs in. To be fair, Jay Leno making fun of a politician during his Tonight Show monologue is unprecedented. This could be just the game-changer that the Romney campaign has been waiting for!
	__________________ When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes - Desiderius Erasmus "Does [A'isha] want to end up in a gas chamber, I wonder? Because this is where the whole thing will end" - McHrozni

3rd October 2012, 01:45 PM	#16
Tricky Briefly immortal Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W Bench Posts: 44,381	Originally Posted by ANTPogo Oh noes! Jay Leno is mocking Biden now! The Democrats are truly in trouble! After all, talk show hosts are always careful never to poke fun at Democrats. I'll bet you can't even remember them cracking a joke during the Clinton-Lewinski scandal. Sure, it's worth a joke or two. But it's still pulling a sentence or two out of context. Not even in the same universe as Romney's 47% video.

3rd October 2012, 01:45 PM	#17
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 14,652	Originally Posted by ANTPogo To be fair, Jay Leno making fun of a politician during his Tonight Show monologue is unprecedented. This could be just the game-changer that the Romney campaign has been waiting for! That's a good point. I'd be hard-pressed to come up with an instance in which a comedian ever mocked a politician, let alone a sitting vice-president. This will be a day long remembered in the annals of politics.

3rd October 2012, 01:46 PM	#18
Spindrift Time Person of the Year, 2006 Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Right here! Posts: 19,246	Originally Posted by johnny karate Excellent point. There a few more respected and incisive political editorials than the revered Jay Leno monologue. Of course, we won't have a true measure of the gravity of this situation until Jimmy Fallon weighs in. And not one of his bests. I like this one better. Quote: Referring to McCain's admonishment of Bachmann's comments regarding Hillary Clinton aide Huma Abedin, the Tonight Show host quipped, "When the guy who picked Sarah Palin says you are crazy, you are crazy.
	__________________ I've always believed that cluelessness evolved as an adaptation to allow the truly appalling to live with themselves. - G. B. Trudeau A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. - Kay, Men in Black. Enjoy every sandwich. - Warren Zevon

3rd October 2012, 01:48 PM	#20
NotJesus Unsaviory Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,629	Originally Posted by ANTPogo To be fair, Jay Leno making fun of a politician during his Tonight Show monologue is unprecedented. This could be just the game-changer that the Romney campaign has been waiting for! And the monologue is the part of the show Jay's geezer audience is actually awake for. We're dooomed!

3rd October 2012, 01:49 PM	#21
Spindrift Time Person of the Year, 2006 Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Right here! Posts: 19,246	Originally Posted by Ziggurat I never said they were in trouble because of this. In fact, it won't really matter at all: Biden is a buffoon, the economy sucks, everybody knows that, and this is nothing new. My point, which you seem either unaware of or determined to avoid, is that it's not just the right wing which interprets Biden's comments as implicating Obama, contrary to Tricky's implication. So lots of people misinterpreted. And?
	__________________ I've always believed that cluelessness evolved as an adaptation to allow the truly appalling to live with themselves. - G. B. Trudeau A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. - Kay, Men in Black. Enjoy every sandwich. - Warren Zevon

3rd October 2012, 01:49 PM	#22
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 48,634	Originally Posted by m-n-m I'd take Hillary over sarah palin or michele bachmann everyday. Hey Ziggurat, why do you think idiotic, anti intellectual women (palin, bachmann) gravitate toward your party, and become stars? Why are they consumed with so much contempt, while being soooo hypocritical? Thoughts? My thoughts are that you seem intent on trying to personalize this, and in changing the topic, neither of which I have any interest in doing in this thread.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

3rd October 2012, 01:49 PM	#23
A'isha Miss Schoolteacher Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 15,221	Originally Posted by Ziggurat My point, which you seem either unaware of or determined to avoid, No, I'm mocking your point. There's a difference. Quote: is that it's not just the right wing which interprets Biden's comments as implicating Obama, contrary to Tricky's implication. Yes, it's the right wing, and Jay Leno. This will surely turn Romney's sagging poll numbers right around.
	__________________ When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes - Desiderius Erasmus "Does [A'isha] want to end up in a gas chamber, I wonder? Because this is where the whole thing will end" - McHrozni

3rd October 2012, 01:51 PM	#24
Tricky Briefly immortal Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W Bench Posts: 44,381	Originally Posted by Ziggurat My point, which you seem either unaware of or determined to avoid, is that it's not just the right wing which interprets Biden's comments as implicating Obama, contrary to Tricky's implication. Then you should be able to find some left-wing commentators or politicians (not professional comics) who are apologizing for it or are trying to make it clear that they disagree with Biden, right?

3rd October 2012, 01:55 PM	#25
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 48,634	Originally Posted by Tricky Then you should be able to find some left-wing commentators or politicians (not professional comics) who are apologizing for it or are trying to make it clear that they disagree with Biden, right? Why should I do that? That's not what I claimed. Anyways, it's Joe Biden. People have long-since given up on apologizing for Biden. Pretty much everybody either just makes fun of him or ignores him. I'm not demanding that anybody do more than that.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

3rd October 2012, 01:57 PM	#26
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 48,634	Originally Posted by ANTPogo No, I'm mocking your point. There's a difference. You're right, my mistake. I keep expecting whit to be part of mockery, but it's not technically required.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

3rd October 2012, 01:59 PM	#27
Tricky Briefly immortal Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W Bench Posts: 44,381	Originally Posted by Ziggurat Why should I do that? That's not what I claimed. Of course. Nothing anyone replies to you is ever what you claimed. But here's what you said: Originally Posted by Ziggurat Yup, those far right fringe wackos are really jumping on Biden. The implication, clear to anyone, is that it is the left wing jumping on Biden. But oh no NO! That is NOT what you meant at ALL! You're so misunderstood.

3rd October 2012, 02:05 PM	#28
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	Originally Posted by Tricky After all, talk show hosts are always careful never to poke fun at Democrats. I'll bet you can't even remember them cracking a joke during the Clinton-Lewinski scandal. Sure, it's worth a joke or two. But it's still pulling a sentence or two out of context. Not even in the same universe as Romney's 47% video. I'll accept that Biden's words were taken out of context if we can agree that the man suffers from an acute case of verbal diarrhea and we can't take anything he says seriously.
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	__________________ Take the risk of thinking for yourself. Much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way. -Christopher Hitchens Believe what you're told. There would be chaos if everyone thought for themselves. -Top Dog slogan

3rd October 2012, 02:06 PM	#29
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 48,634	Originally Posted by Tricky The implication, clear to anyone, is that it is the left wing jumping on Biden. But oh no NO! That is NOT what you meant at All! You're so misunderstood. No, the obvious implication is that Leno isn't right-wing. You have created a false dichotomy: people don't have to be either right-wing or left-wing. I wouldn't describe Leno as either, I think he's pretty centrist. But unless you want to claim that he's right-wing (and you haven't done so), then his jab at Biden undermines your original point that the attack is just from the right.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

3rd October 2012, 02:09 PM	#30
Tricky Briefly immortal Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W Bench Posts: 44,381	Originally Posted by ravdin I'll accept that Biden's words were taken out of context if we can agree that the man suffers from an acute case of verbal diarrhea and we can't take anything he says seriously. He's certainly no good at off-the-cuff comments, but if you drill past his sloppy language, his points have substance.

3rd October 2012, 02:11 PM	#31
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 14,652	Originally Posted by Tricky Sure, it's worth a joke or two. But it's still pulling a sentence or two out of context. Not even in the same universe as Romney's 47% video. I would really hate to be an intern at the RNC right now. The grueling hours they must have to spend poring over every video and audio clip, every quote, desperately trying to find something - anything - to make people forget the complete and utter disdain Romney expressed for half the country.

3rd October 2012, 02:12 PM	#32
m-n-m Scholar Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 120	Originally Posted by Ziggurat My thoughts are that you seem intent on trying to personalize this, and in changing the topic, neither of which I have any interest in doing in this thread. You introduced Hilary, not me. So I'm on point. And coincidently, this is what I expect romney's talking points to be after he gets his ass handed to him. Preach accountability, but always play the victim.
m-n-m Scholar Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 120

3rd October 2012, 02:12 PM	#33
Tricky Briefly immortal Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W Bench Posts: 44,381	Originally Posted by Ziggurat No, the obvious implication is that Leno isn't right-wing. You have created a false dichotomy: people don't have to be either right-wing or left-wing. I wouldn't describe Leno as either, I think he's pretty centrist. But unless you want to claim that he's right-wing (and you haven't done so), then his jab at Biden undermines your original point that the attack is just from the right. "Erm... uh... what I meant was, 'Your Majesty shines out like a shaft of gold when all around is dark.'"

3rd October 2012, 02:13 PM	#34
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	Originally Posted by Tricky He's certainly no good at off-the-cuff comments, but if you drill past his sloppy language, his points have substance. That the middle class has been hard hit over the last four years? There's no disagreement here! It's just that most politicians running for office don't mindlessly parrot their opponent's talking points.
ravdin Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,985	__________________ Take the risk of thinking for yourself. Much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way. -Christopher Hitchens Believe what you're told. There would be chaos if everyone thought for themselves. -Top Dog slogan

3rd October 2012, 02:14 PM	#35
Cleon King of the Pod People Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 25,682	This thread is the most relevant Jay Leno has been since Conan left NBC.
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

3rd October 2012, 02:17 PM	#37
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 48,634	Originally Posted by m-n-m You introduced Hilary, not me. So I'm on point. Context, my dear boy, context. And why so angry? Does it really pain you that someone makes fun of Joe Biden? Joe Biden, for FSM's sake! Is he really the newest sacred cow?
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

3rd October 2012, 02:17 PM	#38
Tricky Briefly immortal Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W Bench Posts: 44,381	Originally Posted by ravdin That the middle class has been hard hit over the last four years? There's no disagreement here! It's just that most politicians running for office don't mindlessly parrot their opponent's talking points. Neither Biden nor Obama have denied that the last four years have been tough. That is certainly not a new meme to the Democratic camp. But the Republican meme is to add "...and it's Obama's fault". I don't think Biden was 'mindlessly parroting' that position. And as you say, you agree with him. Most people agree with him. But yeah, it's worth a few jokes.