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Tags ethnic cleansing , Sudan incidents , Sudan issues

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Old 10th June 2004, 04:05 AM   #1
zenith-nadir
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We need to send jews to Sudan

We need to send Jews to Sudan, perhaps then the UN, specifically the Security Council, would become interested...


From: Sudanese tell of mass rape - BBC - Thursday, 10 June, 2004, 07:03 GMT 08:03 UK
Quote:
The pro-government Janjaweed Arab militia has been accused of using systematic rape, as well as killing and destroying the villages of black Africans, in the conflict in Sudan's western Darfur region.

"The Janjaweed arrived one evening in February in our village near Kaileck, they had guns," she says in a quiet voice. "They separated men and women. Then the Janjaweed selected the prettiest women." "Four men raped me for 10 days." Men were also picked up daily and killed.

"It is very difficult for me as I am a Fur women and these are Arab men", says Khadija, covering herself with an orange scarf. "These are my only clothes. My sister gave them to me, because the Janjaweed abandoned me naked."

Kaileck is now an empty desolated town, with every single house and hut burnt or destroyed.
From:Big powers wary over Sudan crisis - BBC - Saturday, 8 May, 2004, 00:26 GMT 01:26 UK
Quote:
The UN will take no immediate action in the troubled Darfur region of western Sudan, Security Council members say.
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Old 10th June 2004, 04:12 AM   #2
zenith-nadir
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22 March 2004 - Grandfather of all suicide bombers, (men, women AND children), Sheikh Yassin is killed by Israel.

25 March 2004 - The United States yesterday vetoed a Security Council resolution condemning Israel's assassination of Palestinian cleric Sheik Ahmed Yassin.

See? We need to send jews to Sudan....
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Old 10th June 2004, 04:14 AM   #3
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Shock horror, the UN is hamstrung by large nations who can see abolutely nothing to benefit them in the situation. I'm sure the permanent members of the security council don't give a toss about Sudan. They're far too pre-ocupied with the wars (diplomatic and actual) they've started over the past couple of years.
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Old 10th June 2004, 04:17 AM   #4
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BTW IIRC weren't all the jews airlifted out of Sudan back in '84 under Operation Moses ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/524662.stm
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Old 10th June 2004, 04:40 AM   #5
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Now let's see who will bite the troll bait here...
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Old 10th June 2004, 04:46 AM   #6
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Re: We need to send jews to Sudan

Quote:
Originally posted by zenith-nadir
We need to send Jews to Sudan, perhaps then the UN, specifically the Security Council, would become interested...


From: Sudanese tell of mass rape - BBC - Thursday, 10 June, 2004, 07:03 GMT 08:03 UK

From:Big powers wary over Sudan crisis - BBC - Saturday, 8 May, 2004, 00:26 GMT 01:26 UK
The UN seems interested enough to organise a shedload of aid.

But why would the UN want to act against a secular government involved in suppressing muslim rebellion?
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Old 10th June 2004, 05:18 AM   #7
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Arent the blacks being killed also muslim?
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Old 11th June 2004, 03:26 PM   #8
zenith-nadir
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cleopatra
Now let's see who will bite the troll bait here...
I alway marvel at people who "cry troll" with their own trollish posts. Amazing hypocrisy...
Quote:
Originally posted by BillyTK
But why would the UN want to act against a secular government involved in suppressing muslim rebellion?
The events in Dafur are seperate from the civil war between the Sudanese government and the Sudan People's Liberation Movement/Army. The Sudanese government began mobilising an Arab militia - the Janjaweed - to ethnically cleanse the Dafur region of non-muslims under the guise of tackling the Sudan People's Liberation Movement insurrection.

Meanwhile at the UN...U.N. prepares for Sudan advance team - UPI - June 11 2004
Quote:
UNITED NATIONS, June 11 (UPI) -- The U.N. Security Council Friday decided to send an advance team to Sudan ahead of a planned political mission as expectations rise over a peace deal.

In a unanimous vote, the panel's 15 members approved a resolution saying they were ready to consider U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan's proposal to create a U.N. support operation to help implement a comprehensive peace agreement in Sudan.
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Old 11th June 2004, 03:38 PM   #9
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I would ask you to go fucck yourself but then I am not interested in wishing nice things to people that I am not so fond of.
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Old 11th June 2004, 07:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cleopatra
I would ask you to go fucck yourself but then I am not interested in wishing nice things to people that I am not so fond of.
be calm cleo...

ZN just does not understand how the UN works, he never has. It doesn't matter how many times you point out to him that the UN cannot make a resolution directed at a militia group....any more than it could make a resolution directed at the boy scouts of america....

If this was a government taking this action then a resolution would be possible.....But its a waste of time pointing this out to him for the tenth time.
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Old 11th June 2004, 08:27 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cleopatra
I would ask you to go fucck yourself but then I am not interested in wishing nice things to people that I am not so fond of.
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Old 11th June 2004, 08:36 PM   #12
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Cleopatra:
"I would ask you to go fucck yourself but then I am not interested in wishing nice things to people that I am not so fond of."

Wow, Cleopatra comin` at ya
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Old 11th June 2004, 11:58 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Fool

be calm cleo...

ZN just does not understand how the UN works, he never has. It doesn't matter how many times you point out to him that the UN cannot make a resolution directed at a militia group....any more than it could make a resolution directed at the boy scouts of america....

If this was a government taking this action then a resolution would be possible.....But its a waste of time pointing this out to him for the tenth time.
In the case of the 2002 hostage-taking crisis in Moscow, the Security Council adopted a resolution condemning the terrorist attack within 24 hours. In the case of the bombing in Bali the Security Council adopted a resolution within 48 hours. These actions were not taken by any government.
In 2002, the General Assembly passed a resolution on Palestinian children -- the only children in the world subject to the specific concern of a General Assembly resolution. Never mind that Palestinian terrorists have repeatedly targeted Israeli children
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Old 12th June 2004, 12:20 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cleopatra
I would ask you to go fucck yourself but then I am not interested in wishing nice things to people that I am not so fond of.
Purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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Old 12th June 2004, 12:57 AM   #15
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If Z-N got offended for my NOT asking him to FuccK off I can always correct that and I can actually ask him to go fuccck himself off.

Fucck off Z-N.

I apologize for not asking you to do so last night.

Somebody must inform you Z-N that the people of Israel are called Israelis and not Jews and you had better stop attempting to pass this dirty propaganda that uses the term Jews when talking about Israelis.

If you don't know the difference and its significance when you talk about Israel and the Middle East crisis you'd better leave this discussions to the older children.
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Old 12th June 2004, 12:58 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by celter
In the case of the 2002 hostage-taking crisis in Moscow, the Security Council adopted a resolution condemning the terrorist attack within 24 hours. In the case of the bombing in Bali the Security Council adopted a resolution within 48 hours. These actions were not taken by any government.
In 2002, the General Assembly passed a resolution on Palestinian children -- the only children in the world subject to the specific concern of a General Assembly resolution. Never mind that Palestinian terrorists have repeatedly targeted Israeli children
Ah, but do you remember what happened to an almost identical resolution on Israeli children?
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Old 12th June 2004, 01:00 AM   #17
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So,what is your point Mycroft? Since when Israel cares about what UN thinks?
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Old 12th June 2004, 01:11 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cleopatra
So,what is your point Mycroft? Since when Israel cares about what UN thinks?
There is a difference between not caring about what the UN thinks and not heeding the dictates of an obviously biased and hostile UN. It is my opinion that if the UN were more fair to Israel, that the UN could become a force for resolving this conflict.

Call me an optimist.
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Old 12th June 2004, 01:15 AM   #19
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No things are not exactly like that because Israel through USA has boycotted many fair resolutions that concerned the Palestinians.

It's an hypocricy to lament for UN's bias towards Israel.

The only thing that UN's stance regarding Israel proves is that there is no such a thing as an international jewish lobby that controls everything.

If this lobby existed they would control UN as well, the rest are funny stories.
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Old 12th June 2004, 01:26 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cleopatra
No things are not exactly like that because Israel through USA has boycotted many fair resolutions that concerned the Palestinians.

It's an hypocricy to lament for UN's bias towards Israel.

The only thing that UN's stance regarding Israel proves is that there is no such a thing as an international jewish lobby that controls everything.

If this lobby existed they would control UN as well, the rest are funny stories.
The International Jewish Lobby is a work in progress. They control the United States, but haven't been able to subvert the UN yet. If you read the newsletter, you would know this.
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Old 12th June 2004, 03:32 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cleopatra
I would ask you to go fucck yourself but then I am not interested in wishing nice things to people that I am not so fond of.
Quote:
Originally posted by Cleopatra
If Z-N got offended for my NOT asking him to FuccK off I can always correct that and I can actually ask him to go fuccck himself off.
Quote:
Originally posted by Cleopatra
Somebody must inform you Z-N that the people of Israel are called Israelis and not Jews and you had better stop attempting to pass this dirty propaganda that uses the term Jews when talking about Israelis.
Well, well, well. So the real Cleopatra has stood up. Your concern about the men, women and children in Sudan is refreshing.

Funny how a discussion about Sudan has been derailed by Cleopatra into "dirty propaganda" about "Israelis" combined with a ridiculous temper tantrum, which, funnier still, happened after her original off-topic troll-like post. I wrote you off from day one Cleopatra and now the entire board can see what you are really made of.

Now lets get back to discussing Sudan and the UN and leave Cleopatra with her peers, Demon, a_u_p and the Fool.
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Old 12th June 2004, 03:43 AM   #22
zenith-nadir
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Fool
be calm cleo...ZN just does not understand how the UN works, he never has. It doesn't matter how many times you point out to him that the UN cannot make a resolution directed at a militia group....any more than it could make a resolution directed at the boy scouts of america....If this was a government taking this action then a resolution would be possible.....But its a waste of time pointing this out to him for the tenth time.
This is why you are correctly named The Fool. Two posts before your brilliant quote above I wrote this;
Quote:
Originally posted by zenith-nadir
The events in Dafur are seperate from the civil war between the Sudanese government and the Sudan People's Liberation Movement/Army. The Sudanese government began mobilising an Arab militia - the Janjaweed - to ethnically cleanse the Dafur region of non-muslims under the guise of tackling the Sudan People's Liberation Movement insurrection.
Here's more
Quote:
UN rapporteur Asma Jehangir told the BBC government-backed militias had been involved in extra-judicial executions and the killings were still going on.
And in the case of Israel, Fateh is the ruling party of the Palestinian Authority, the Al Aksa Martyrs Brigade and Fateh terrorists are not "militias" but a part of the Palestinian Authority.

Fools to the left of me, Cleopatras to the right of me... is there no one here who is willing to discuss Sudan without acting like a complete buffoon?
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Old 12th June 2004, 06:33 AM   #23
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You are not here to discuss about Sudan idiot but to sell your racist propaganda.

Please consider to masturbate only in the privacy of your house and not in public fora.
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Old 12th June 2004, 08:33 AM   #24
zenith-nadir
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cleopatra
You are not here to discuss about Sudan idiot but to sell your racist propaganda.
My racist propoganda, wow that is a rich one. Was it my racist propoganda about women being raped in Sudan or was it my racist propoganda about the government of Sudan using a proxy to wipe out black Sudanese or was it something I said after you derailed the thread, called me a troll and told me to "F" off three times? Gosh, could you help me out Mrs. a_u_p?

You are not only a proven liar but have now become completely irrelevant and as close to a troll as one can get by common definition.

Quote:
Originally posted by Cleopatra
Please consider to masturbate only in the privacy of your house and not in public fora.
After your "display" in this thread I think your agenda has become painfully clear.
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Old 12th June 2004, 12:29 PM   #25
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Z-N

you are not worse than the other trolls here. Of course nobody else dares to use the term Jews when he refers to Israelis. You see, some people here know very well things, people and ideas that circulate around and you cannot cover where do you come from.

What bothers me most though is that people like you believe that they defend Israel while they constitute the ultimate embarassment for the country.

The people of Israel are called Israelis and not Jews as you and some others want but don't worry, once we settle the matter with the Palestinians we will have plenty of time to deal with those who want to turn the country into a ghetto.

Poor Z-N! He wanted to talk about Sudan and Mrs. AUP derailed his thread....
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Old 12th June 2004, 01:19 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cleopatra
you are not worse than the other trolls here. Of course nobody else dares to use the term Jews when he refers to Israelis. You see, some people here know very well things, people and ideas that circulate around and you cannot cover where do you come from.

I dunno, Skeptic has often made comments along the lines of terrorism isn't terrorism when Jews are targeted, referring to Israelis. I may have even made such comments myself. I think you're reading a lot into ZN saying; We need to send Jews to Sudan, perhaps then the UN, specifically the Security Council, would become interested... I read it as a clear statement on UN bias, nothing more.

While I certainly agree that distinctions should be made between Jews and Israelis when appropriate, I'm not sure how he could have said We need to send Israelis to the Sudan without seeming to literally advocate Israeli intervention instead of just illustrating UN double-standards.
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Old 12th June 2004, 01:22 PM   #27
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Mycroft. Please do not try to explain to me what Z-N really means. I am not arguing the bias I am arguing the use of the semantics.
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Old 12th June 2004, 01:23 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cleopatra
Mycroft. Please do not try to explain to me what Z-N really means. I am not arguing the bias I am arguing the use of the semantics.
So was I.
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Old 12th June 2004, 01:27 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mycroft
I'm not sure how he could have said We need to send Israelis to the Sudan without seeming to literally advocate Israeli intervention instead of just illustrating UN double-standards.
If you are arguing semantics here then you cannot possibly have posted the above seriously.
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Old 12th June 2004, 03:22 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cleopatra
If you are arguing semantics here then you cannot possibly have posted the above seriously.
Indeed I was. Can you suggest an alternative phrasing?
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Old 12th June 2004, 03:37 PM   #31
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The world has been ignoring sudan for over a decade. Since it's oil resevers are pretty small and the war is largly arabs vrs africans (of muslims vrs cristians if you want it in relgious terms) I suspect it will be continued to be ignored
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Old 12th June 2004, 04:14 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mycroft


Indeed I was. Can you suggest an alternative phrasing?
If you were serious the discussion stops here and it won't open again no matter what.

I discover with surprize that you belong to those that they would say anything to justify a stupidity just because they believe that it's part of their agenda( I do not use the word agenda in a negative way).

If you cannot see an alternative way to word a title to describe "Another case of bias against Israel in UN" then we have a problem.
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Old 12th June 2004, 06:40 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cleopatra
If you were serious the discussion stops here and it won't open again no matter what.
Thatís a very odd threat, though I realize it was posted at 3:00 am your time. I donít think you are a night-owl like I am, so I hope itís not something troublesome that has you up so late.

Quote:
Originally posted by Cleopatra
I discover with surprize that you belong to those that they would say anything to justify a stupidity just because they believe that it's part of their agenda( I do not use the word agenda in a negative way).
Is that what youíve discovered? Cleo, I feel as though you are reading something in this thread that is invisible to me. Iíve said only two things: 1) I think youíre reading something more into ZNís phrasing than is warranted, and 2) I agree with his essential point that the UN shows a bias in being obsessed with Israel while neglecting other world issues, and that it would be better if they did not.

Exactly what part of that compels you to believe I would defend any idiotic thing that goes along with my agenda is beyond me. That you would further claim that this mysterious thing should be given more weight than the previous 1500 posts Iíve made in the past ten months is disappointing. It is my opinion that intelligent sincere people can, in good faith, disagree on important issues and still respect one another. I hope that is your opinion too.

Quote:
Originally posted by Cleopatra
If you cannot see an alternative way to word a title to describe "Another case of bias against Israel in UN" then we have a problem.
Iím sure I could come up with something, but the real issue is if ZNís choice constitutes racist propaganda. Honestly, the issue itself is not very important to me, but if it creates a problem between us I hope we can resolve it.
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Old 12th June 2004, 09:28 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by zenith-nadir
This is why you are correctly named The Fool. Two posts before your brilliant quote above I wrote this;

Here's moreAnd in the case of Israel, Fateh is the ruling party of the Palestinian Authority, the Al Aksa Martyrs Brigade and Fateh terrorists are not "militias" but a part of the Palestinian Authority.

Fools to the left of me, Cleopatras to the right of me... is there no one here who is willing to discuss Sudan without acting like a complete buffoon?
Is it possible for the UN to direct a resolution at the palestinian authority? Is that question simple enough? would you like a definition of the words yes and no to help you answer?

Do you realise that the palestinian authority is not the government of a member state of the United nations?

Of course you Zionists believe the only possible explanation of Israels ****** record of critical UN resolutions is due to a conspiracy...It could not possibly have anything to do with a racist colonial government.....nope, not a chance.
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Old 13th June 2004, 12:49 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Fool
Is it possible for the UN to direct a resolution at the palestinian authority? Is that question simple enough? would you like a definition of the words yes and no to help you answer?
I think you miss the point. The issue is not the ability of the UN to make a resolution concerning the Palestinian Authority (though I'm not aware of any reason why they shouldn't) but why they haven't passed any resolutions regarding Sudan.
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Old 13th June 2004, 03:05 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mycroft


I think you miss the point. The issue is not the ability of the UN to make a resolution concerning the Palestinian Authority (though I'm not aware of any reason why they shouldn't) but why they haven't passed any resolutions regarding Sudan.
Well, now they have.

Look - no Jews!
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Old 13th June 2004, 03:09 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by charley_bigtime
Well, now they have.

Look - no Jews!
That's just like that deceitful UN! Just when you're making a point about them not doing something, they go and do it just to spite you. How can anyone trust an organization like that?
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Old 13th June 2004, 03:14 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mycroft


That's just like that deceitful UN! Just when you're making a point about them not doing something, they go and do it just to spite you. How can anyone trust an organization like that?
Wierd huh?

Is it out of the realms of possibility that statements made on these boards drive the UN's policies? If so I fully expect sanctions against Elton John for totally copying REO Speedwagon and a resolution forcing Rachel Weisz to be in my cot, totally covered in Black Cherry Yoghurt when I get home tonight.
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Old 13th June 2004, 03:34 AM   #39
demon
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,736
Mycroft:
"That's just like that deceitful UN! Just when you're making a point about them not doing something, they go and do it just to spite you. How can anyone trust an organization like that?"

Nice one LOL

Now all they have to do is ignore the Resolution and all is right in the world again.
Next......
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Old 13th June 2004, 04:35 AM   #40
zenith-nadir
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,482
I am sorry Mycroft but I do not see the value of kissing Cleopatra's butt after you yourself witnessed her "display" in this thread. Any rational person would see that at no time in this thread was I racist, anti-semitic, anti-arab or a propogandist.

Without cause she entered a thread, cried troll, then procedes to tell me to "F" off three times, then she babbles something about "my racist propoganda", then she tells you not to tell her that she is off her rocker, then she launches into me again and what a troll I am.

I find her "position" that by saying "we need to send jews to Sudan " , is an indictment of jews, or an indictment non-jewish Israelis laughable and completely baseless. The fact that she has to make up that position and then spinkle it with insults and epithets has only validated her lack of value to everyone at JREF.

What would you say if any poster entered any thread at JREF and derailed it by screaming troll, racists and "Fucc off" several times? They would be shown the door. This entire episode only exposes Cleopatra for who she truely is. Read her own words, I didn't have to make them up.

All I have to say is Cleopatra's behaviour in this thread has only validated my long-standing opinion about her/it. She needs to be the center of attention, she needs to be the expert on the Middle East at JREF, and if you don't like it then out of thin air she will go as far as to misrepresent one's position, use the troll-card, use the "F you" card and top all that healthy JREF skepticism off with branding one a racist and propogandist. Everyone can witness it themselves, read her own words. She has attempted to derail this thread by making up something that never exsisted in the first place.

Additionally her genuine "concern" for the black Sudanese is noted.
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