Why many Sanders supporters will once again be voting for Trump this election

MrFliop · 18th July 2020, 01:01 PM

I know, you’re thinking how could any person could support Trump and Sanders indifferently?

Well I know a lot of Sanders supporters both in person and on the internet who were also secret Trump voters. I too supported Sanders in the 2016 primary but voted for Trump in the general election. I won’t do it again this year and I’ll give the reason why shortly, but.......

Not all Bernie voters are Democratic Socialists. Many simply wanted him because he represents change. And, like it or not, Donald Trump represents change, whether in a good way or bad. And as long as the narrative is played that the establishment is doing everything it can to stop “outsider” president Trump then there will inevitably be a (much larger than you can imagine) portion of Bernie voters who secretly support him, even if they don’t talk about it in person.

Also another reason is their belief in accelerationism. Sanders’ supporters are less interested in his socialist policies than they are of a political revolution that his presidency could bring about. Their thinking goes that if he cannot get elected the next best thing to bring about “the revolution” is to have someone unbelievably awful like Trump in office for 8 years.

There was even a small faction of Sanders supporters in 2016 (including me) who believed that a Clinton loss could give Bernie a second chance in 2020. Well, that didn’t go according to plan did it? Still I’ve seen some fools on social media after Bernie dropped out this Spring urging fellow supporters to deny Biden victory in November to give Sanders yet another shot in 2024. Nope! Not doing that! I’m done with this!

That is the sad reality! Bernie’s supporters are so eager for change that some will do everything possible to re-elect Trump this year, and there is NOTHING that their fellow liberals can say or do to change their minds.

Venom · 18th July 2020, 01:19 PM

I'm not sure what these cynics/idealists expect out of their government at all at this point.

They aren't playing their cards anymore; they're constantly folding until they get their One Perfect Candidate, and I fear they won't budge even if we are 30 years into the worst of global warming and on the brink of dictatorship.

Safe-Keeper · 18th July 2020, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by Venom

I'm not sure what these cynics/idealists expect out of their government at all at this point.

They aren't playing their cards anymore; they're constantly folding until they get their One Perfect Candidate, and I fear they won't budge even if we are 30 years into the worst of global warming and on the brink of dictatorship.

The US is already on the treshold of dictatorship. It might even be near an irreversible tipping point, like we are with the climate crisis. As are several countries in Europe, at least one of which seems to have tipped already

. I genuenly believe that if Trump wins in November, it's over and out for the American republic as we know it, along with minority rights, access to abortion, open borders, and relations with the free world.

Giordano · 18th July 2020, 02:02 PM

The polls I’ve seen indicate that over 80% of Sanders supporters say they will vote, if without enthusiasm, for Biden. e.g.:
https://www.suffolk.edu/news-feature...-support-biden

I don’t think they will be a significant source of Trump support this time (4% of those polled).

But if one suggests they are lying to the pollsters? But of course this also allows the possibility that they are lying to the OP and they are strong Biden supporters...

Stacyhs · 18th July 2020, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by MrFliop

I know, you’re thinking how could any person could support Trump and Sanders indifferently?

Well I know a lot of Sanders supporters both in person and on the internet who were also secret Trump voters. I too supported Sanders in the 2016 primary but voted for Trump in the general election. I won’t do it again this year and I’ll give the reason why shortly, but.......

Not all Bernie voters are Democratic Socialists. Many simply wanted him because he represents change. And, like it or not, Donald Trump represents change, whether in a good way or bad. And as long as the narrative is played that the establishment is doing everything it can to stop “outsider” president Trump then there will inevitably be a (much larger than you can imagine) portion of Bernie voters who secretly support him, even if they don’t talk about it in person.

Also another reason is their belief in accelerationism. Sanders’ supporters are less interested in his socialist policies than they are of a political revolution that his presidency could bring about. Their thinking goes that if he cannot get elected the next best thing to bring about “the revolution” is to have someone unbelievably awful like Trump in office for 8 years.

There was even a small faction of Sanders supporters in 2016 (including me) who believed that a Clinton loss could give Bernie a second chance in 2020. Well, that didn’t go according to plan did it? Still I’ve seen some fools on social media after Bernie dropped out this Spring urging fellow supporters to deny Biden victory in November to give Sanders yet another shot in 2024. Nope! Not doing that! I’m done with this!

That is the sad reality! Bernie’s supporters are so eager for change that some will do everything possible to re-elect Trump this year, and there is NOTHING that their fellow liberals can say or do to change their minds.

The kind of extremism you describe among some Bernie supporters is a sad reality. The irony is that their extremism and right wing extremism are just two sides of the coin.

acbytesla · 18th July 2020, 04:41 PM

This thread is BS. Most likely posted by a Trump supporter or some Russian company.

There may be one in a thousand Sanders supporters who will vote for Trump.....if that.

Trump has proven himself not only tobe the Billionaire's boy handing tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans, doling out favors like it's Christmas to his friends and tearing apart and lining his pocket. Calling Trump corrupt is a massive understatement.

He opposed making Healthcare affordable for all. All he ever did was try and destroy it. Anyone who says they are or were Sanders supporters and says they are voting for Trump are almost certainly liars.

Then there is the simple fact that Trump is totally incompetent and not up to the job. His failures on the International stage are only overshadowed by his domestic failures.

Putin's Bitch is responsible for a 100,000 deaths and that figure will likely double January. COVID alone is enough to kick his ass to the curb. Finally how he has dealt with the systemic racism and racial divides is nothing short of criminal

Sanders supporters voting for Trump the Orange Turd?

That's a good one.

PhantomWolf · 18th July 2020, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

This thread is BS. Most likely posted by a Trump supporter or some Russian company.

There may be one in a thousand Sanders supporters who will vote for Trump.....if that.

You clearly missed the post above you that showed a Suffolk University poll that showed it is actually about 1 in 25!

Roger Ramjets · 18th July 2020, 05:02 PM

Forget about them. It's the 40% who normally don't vote at all that will be the decider.

Sideroxylon · 18th July 2020, 05:05 PM

Cool story, bro.

acbytesla · 18th July 2020, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf

You clearly missed the post above you that showed a Suffolk University poll that showed it is actually about 1 in 25!

Still 1 in 25 is insignificant. That's like a quarter point when you add in the rest of the electorate. Right now, Trump is down by 5 in Texas!

MrFliop · 18th July 2020, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by Giordano

The polls I’ve seen indicate that over 80% of Sanders supporters say they will vote, if without enthusiasm, for Biden. e.g.:
https://www.suffolk.edu/news-feature...-support-biden

I don’t think they will be a significant source of Trump support this time (4% of those polled).

But if one suggests they are lying to the pollsters? But of course this also allows the possibility that they are lying to the OP and they are strong Biden supporters...

Other polls also say Trump would get about 15% from Sanders supporters. Roughly the same share he got in 2016.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ll/2936124001/

Also even if the Sanders supporters who don’t support Biden vote mostly third party instead of Trump, it would still help him.

MrFliop · 18th July 2020, 05:58 PM

Also, a 20% abstain vote from Sanders supporters could be harmful to Biden in key battle ground states.

Let me give some examples:

Traditionally incumbents receive less votes during primaries compared to competative primaries.

Yet even though Biden was unopposed by this time he got LESS votes than Trump in the Ohio primary with Sanders receiving 16% despite the fact that he dropped out 3 weeks earlier.

OH Dem Primary
Biden: 647,284
Sanders: 149,683
Others: 97,416
Total: 894,383

OH GOP Primary (Trump was unopposed on ballot)
Trump: 682,845

Then in the Pennsylvania primary, almost 2 months after Sanders withdrawal, Biden got slightly more votes than Trump with Sanders getting about 18%.

PA Dem Primary
Biden: 1,264,624
Sanders: 387,834
Others: 43,050
Total: 1,595,508

PA GOP Primary
Trump: 1,043,311
Others: 88,902
Total: 1,132,213

It’s possible that those voting for Sanders didn’t get the memo that he dropped out (despite being weeks and months after). Or it’s a preview of the actual election results, with the majority of democratic voters consolidating around one candidate but a small percentage of Sanders supporters not voting for the nominee who in return gets less votes than Trump. And remember incumbents usually less turnout during their primaries.

MrFliop · 18th July 2020, 06:00 PM

OH and PA are the only swing states that held primaries AFTER both parties had ONE nominee. But I’ll post the results of the other states to show how crucial Sanders voters are.

FL Dem Primary
Biden: 1,077,375
Sanders: 397,311
Others: 264,528
Total: 1,739,214

FL GOP Primary
Trump: 1,162,984
Others: 76,955
Total: 1,239,939

NC Dem Primary
Biden: 572,271
Sanders: 322,645
Others: 437,466
Total: 1,332,382

NC GOP Primary
Trump: 750,600
Others: 51,927
Total: 802,527

WI Dem Primary
Biden: 581,463
Sanders: 293,441
Others: 50,261
Total: 925,165

WI GOP Primary
Trump: 616,782
Others: 13,416
Total: 630,198

MI DEM Primary
Biden: 840,360
Sanders: 576,926
Others: 170,393
Total: 1,587,679

MI GOP Primary
Trump: 639,500
Others: 3,067
Total: 642,567

portlandatheist · 18th July 2020, 06:01 PM

the bitter bernie bro demographic that voted for Trump out their spite is thankfully, a demographic we can all happily ignore this go around. Sanders outspent Biden massively in Texas and yet Bernie voters still felt disenfranchised by their loss but that is the false virtue of populism: they imagine they represent the "true will" of the "true people" but at the end of the day, they could really care less about who actually receives the most votes and will be sore losers.

acbytesla · 18th July 2020, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by MrFliop

Other polls also say Trump would get about 15% from Sanders supporters. Roughly the same share he got in 2016.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ll/2936124001/

Also even if the Sanders supporters who don’t support Biden vote mostly third party instead of Trump, it would still help him.

Maybe. But I strongly doubt it. I have never see anyone engender such passionate dislike as Trump. People despise him with a passion.

As his handling of the COVID pandemic gets worse and worse and the death toll continues to skyrocket, hell continue to lose support. He just found the issue he cannot pull off the headlines.

Sideroxylon · 18th July 2020, 06:08 PM

Is there a point beyond tribalism here?

kookbreaker · 18th July 2020, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by MrFliop

Also, a 20% abstain vote from Sanders supporters could be harmful to Biden in key battle ground states.

Let me give some examples:

Traditionally incumbents receive less votes during primaries compared to competative primaries.

Yet even though Biden was unopposed by this time he got LESS votes than Trump in the Ohio primary with Sanders receiving 16% despite the fact that he dropped out 3 weeks earlier.

OH Dem Primary
Biden: 647,284
Sanders: 149,683
Others: 97,416
Total: 894,383

OH GOP Primary (Trump was unopposed on ballot)
Trump: 682,845

Then in the Pennsylvania primary, almost 2 months after Sanders withdrawal, Biden got slightly more votes than Trump with Sanders getting about 18%.

PA Dem Primary
Biden: 1,264,624
Sanders: 387,834
Others: 43,050
Total: 1,595,508

PA GOP Primary
Trump: 1,043,311
Others: 88,902
Total: 1,132,213

It’s possible that those voting for Sanders didn’t get the memo that he dropped out (despite being weeks and months after). Or it’s a preview of the actual election results, with the majority of democratic voters consolidating around one candidate but a small percentage of Sanders supporters not voting for the nominee who in return gets less votes than Trump. And remember incumbents usually less turnout during their primaries.

Many folks voting for Sanders in PA and other late primaries were doing so as a message to Biden that they still want more progressive elements in o his platform. This was deliberate and there were a number of people advising this on social media and elsewhere. They weren’t sabatoging Biden or forgetting that Sanders suspended his campaign. They weren’t planning to vote for Trump later on, it was a message from progressive voters.

CapelDodger · 18th July 2020, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by MrFliop

I know, you’re thinking how could any person could support Trump and Sanders indifferently?

Actually I'm wondering why you're opening yourself up to humiliation on such a short time-scale.

CapelDodger · 18th July 2020, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

Maybe. But I strongly doubt it. I have never see anyone engender such passionate dislike as Trump. People despise him with a passion.

Count me in.

Quote:

As his handling of the COVID pandemic gets worse and worse and the death toll continues to skyrocket, hell continue to lose support. He just found the issue he cannot pull off the headlines.

Trump's core support is chipping away, but like granite under a copper chisel. When it comes to it they'll cling to an existing COVID disaster with Trump rather than without.

Bob001 · 18th July 2020, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by MrFliop

....
Not all Bernie voters are Democratic Socialists. Many simply wanted him because he represents change. And, like it or not, Donald Trump represents change, whether in a good way or bad.
....

But does he? He's been President for almost four years. He has a record. Did he bring the change the Bernie crowd hoped for? All Biden has to do is keep asking "Are you better off today than you were when I left office?" For many Americans, if not the majority, the answer is a resounding no.

Segnosaur · 18th July 2020, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

This thread is BS. Most likely posted by a Trump supporter or some Russian company.
....
Sanders supporters voting for Trump the Orange Turd?

That's a good one.

I would be willing to believe it.

Sadly, not all voters make their decision based on rational thoughts... policy, integrity, etc. Some people take a much more nihilistic attitude. They want to wreck society, and they haven't given much thought about what they want to replace it with. To such a person, Sanders and Trump are a step towards achieving that goal.

Quote:

Still 1 in 25 is insignificant. That's like a quarter point when you add in the rest of the electorate.

Keep in mind that there were other polls that show slightly different results. For example, during the primaries, an ABC/Washington Post poll showed ~15% of Sanders supporters said they would vote for Trump. (USA Today)

Near the end of the primaries, Sanders had approximately 30% support. So depending on which numbers you look at, you could be looking at between .5% and 5% of the Democrats supporting Trump.

Hopefully you're right, and it won't matter. But when you have some states being decided by less than 1%, even a few thousand lost votes could be a problem.

MrFliop · 18th July 2020, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by kookbreaker

Many folks voting for Sanders in PA and other late primaries were doing so as a message to Biden that they still want more progressive elements in o his platform.

To get more delegates, to influence the Democratic Party’s Platform for 2020. Just like the DNC tried in 2016 when it drafted what it called “The Most Progressive Platform”. And yet 15% of Sanders supporters weren’t convinced then. How could their trust be earned this time?

Don’t get me wrong, I want Trump out. It would be even better if Biden ran and won promising to implement actual progressive policies. But how would we really believe him at his word?

acbytesla · 18th July 2020, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

I would be willing to believe it.

Sadly, not all voters make their decision based on rational thoughts... policy, integrity, etc. Some people take a much more nihilistic attitude. They want to wreck society, and they haven't given much thought about what they want to replace it with. To such a person, Sanders and Trump are a step towards achieving that goal.

Keep in mind that there were other polls that show slightly different results. For example, during the primaries, an ABC/Washington Post poll showed ~15% of Sanders supporters said they would vote for Trump. (USA Today)

Near the end of the primaries, Sanders had approximately 30% support. So depending on which numbers you look at, you could be looking at between .5% and 5% of the Democrats supporting Trump.

Hopefully you're right, and it won't matter. But when you have some states being decided by less than 1%, even a few thousand lost votes could be a problem.

Let's hope it doesn't come down to that. But even if it did, there is absolutely nothing we can do about it. Anyone who would go from Sanders to Trump is bat crap crazy. They have absolutely nothing in common.

Bernie is a good man.
Trump is a terrible human being.
Bernie has been helping people for 50 years.
Trump has been conning people for 50 years.
Bernie is a Democratic Socialist.
Trump is NOT.
Bernie is anti-nuclear
Trump is pro-nuclear. (The one issue I side with Trump)
Bernie is for Universal healthcare.
Trump is trying to eliminate any health care assistance.
Bernie is for expanding the social safety net.
Trump is trying to eliminate it.
Trump stands against everything the Sanders stands for.

bruto · 18th July 2020, 07:23 PM

I can sort of understand what Mr. Fliop is saying, though I greatly disagree with it. Alas, there are many fools in the world, and it behooves us not to spend too much energy analyzing their delusions and errors. There will always be people who believe the wrong things and do the wrong things for the wrong reasons.

However, I hope that a sufficient number of those who supported Sanders will realize that Trump offers nothing close to what Sanders might have, and that Trump's promise of novelty was false, and also that some might remember what seems to have eluded many - Sanders (and I mean no disrespect, I like him) is not an inexperienced political outsider. He's an outsider to the Democratic party, but he's a career politician, not a failed businessman. He knows the ropes. And I hope they also remember that Sanders, radical and excitable and unconventional as he can sometimes appear, has some integrity and intelligence, qualities Trump appears not to have at all.

Sideroxylon · 18th July 2020, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by bruto

I can sort of understand what Mr. Fliop is saying, though I greatly disagree with it. Alas, there are many fools in the world, and it behooves us not to spend too much energy analyzing their delusions and errors. There will always be people who believe the wrong things and do the wrong things for the wrong reasons.

However, I hope that a sufficient number of those who supported Sanders will realize that Trump offers nothing close to what Sanders might have, and that Trump's promise of novelty was false, and also that some might remember what seems to have eluded many - Sanders (and I mean no disrespect, I like him) is not an inexperienced political outsider. He's an outsider to the Democratic party, but he's a career politician, not a failed businessman. He knows the ropes. And I hope they also remember that Sanders, radical and excitable and unconventional as he can sometimes appear, has some integrity and intelligence, qualities Trump appears not to have at all.

Trump’s universal healthcare and living wage policies will swing some away from Biden.

acbytesla · 18th July 2020, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon

Trump’s universal healthcare and living wage policies will swing some away from Biden.

?????????

Venom · 19th July 2020, 02:03 AM

Originally Posted by MrFliop

To get more delegates, to influence the Democratic Party’s Platform for 2020. Just like the DNC tried in 2016 when it drafted what it called “The Most Progressive Platform”. And yet 15% of Sanders supporters weren’t convinced then. How could their trust be earned this time?

Don’t get me wrong, I want Trump out. It would be even better if Biden ran and won promising to implement actual progressive policies. But how would we really believe him at his word?

Progressives get so caught up in this sometimes. The primaries are long over. Get the ****** out and have enough of the right people in Congress and put pressure on Biden to enact more progressive policies.

Biden may not be anything special but like many career politicians he tends to side with whatever he finds politically expedient. He should have a hundred reasons in the House and Senate to bring progressives to the table.

llwyd · 19th July 2020, 02:22 AM

Yeah, no.

Belz... · 19th July 2020, 04:13 AM

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

The US is already on the treshold of dictatorship. It might even be near an irreversible tipping point, like we are with the climate crisis. As are several countries in Europe, at least one of which seems to have tipped already

. I genuenly believe that if Trump wins in November, it's over and out for the American republic as we know it, along with minority rights, access to abortion, open borders, and relations with the free world.

Isn't that what people have been saying for 30 years?

bonzombiekitty · 19th July 2020, 04:28 AM

Originally Posted by kookbreaker

Many folks voting for Sanders in PA and other late primaries were doing so as a message to Biden that they still want more progressive elements in o his platform. This was deliberate and there were a number of people advising this on social media and elsewhere. They weren’t sabatoging Biden or forgetting that Sanders suspended his campaign. They weren’t planning to vote for Trump later on, it was a message from progressive voters.

This. More votes for Sanders even after the campaign means more input from that wing of the party on the party platform, etc

Any Sanders voters that vote for Trump this time around are likely the same Sanders supports that voted for Trump on 2016. All that is necessary is for there to be fewer of them this time around, and I can't see how it isn't the case. In 2016, Sanders voters were angry at the DNC because of how they treated Sanders during the primary and Trump was a political unknown - that would have driven them to opt for Trump instead.

Beelzebuddy · 19th July 2020, 04:39 AM

Originally Posted by Venom

Progressives get so caught up in this sometimes. The primaries are long over. Get the ****** out and have enough of the right people in Congress and put pressure on Biden to enact more progressive policies.

Biden may not be anything special but like many career politicians he tends to side with whatever he finds politically expedient. He should have a hundred reasons in the House and Senate to bring progressives to the table.

Why do you think "you guys should wait until the stakes are low enough to ignore you before asking to be heard" is a compelling argument?* Isn't Trump enough of a reason to bring them to the table now? Is the progressive vote important enough to demand concessions, or small enough not to matter? You can't have it both ways.

Anyway, I don't believe the OP's straw Bernie Bros exist in any real numbers. You'll always find some weirdos to point to (Trump also has IIRC 8% of the Black vote), but I've never met anyone who supported Sanders but is voting for Trump who wasn't a right-wing troll moonlighting as a Democrat.

*[ETA] Well, other than it working so well for so long on mainstream Democrats. Don't worry guys, the GOP is totally going to work with us on a bunch of our policy bills as soon as we vote with them on this emergency matter. They even pinky promised this time!

Craig4 · 19th July 2020, 06:17 AM

For the polling data to be that off, it would take a huge number Sanders supporters organized to lie when called. You'd need a huge number of people because only a small fraction of people ever get called for polls. I could see numbers of being a bit off with some Trump voters as they may not want to admit to planning to vote for Trump out of fear of being seen as stupid. There may have been some of that going on in 2016.

acbytesla · 19th July 2020, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy

Anyway, I don't believe the OP's straw Bernie Bros exist in any real numbers. You'll always find some weirdos to point to (Trump also has IIRC 8% of the Black vote), but I've never met anyone who supported Sanders but is voting for Trump who wasn't a right-wing troll moonlighting as a Democrat.

This!

My point exactly. Well said.

.

Venom · 19th July 2020, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy

Why do you think "you guys should wait until the stakes are low enough to ignore you before asking to be heard" is a compelling argument?* Isn't Trump enough of a reason to bring them to the table now? Is the progressive vote important enough to demand concessions, or small enough not to matter? You can't have it both ways.

I'm simply saying keep up pressure on Biden. He's already met with Sanders a few times. Giving up because Biden isn't your ideal candidate solves nothing. He's in a position where he'll have to address a growing progressive movement at one point or another.

Stacyhs · 19th July 2020, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by Craig4

For the polling data to be that off, it would take a huge number Sanders supporters organized to lie when called. You'd need a huge number of people because only a small fraction of people ever get called for polls. I could see numbers of being a bit off with some Trump voters as they may not want to admit to planning to vote for Trump out of fear of being seen as stupid. There may have been some of that going on in 2016.

No. Nor do they lie to pollsters about whom they're voting for out of fear/reprisals as has been claimed. People may lie to family and friends if those are vehemently anti-Trump in order not to create problems, but not because they think they'll be seen as stupid by some anonymous pollsters. THEY don't think they're stupid and they're not embarrassed or they wouldn't be voting for Trump. And if they are, they should ask themselves why.

Crossbow · 19th July 2020, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

This thread is BS. Most likely posted by a Trump supporter or some Russian company.

There may be one in a thousand Sanders supporters who will vote for Trump.....if that.

Trump has proven himself not only tobe the Billionaire's boy handing tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans, doling out favors like it's Christmas to his friends and tearing apart and lining his pocket. Calling Trump corrupt is a massive understatement.

He opposed making Healthcare affordable for all. All he ever did was try and destroy it. Anyone who says they are or were Sanders supporters and says they are voting for Trump are almost certainly liars.

Then there is the simple fact that Trump is totally incompetent and not up to the job. His failures on the International stage are only overshadowed by his domestic failures.

Putin's Bitch is responsible for a 100,000 deaths and that figure will likely double January. COVID alone is enough to kick his ass to the curb. Finally how he has dealt with the systemic racism and racial divides is nothing short of criminal

Sanders supporters voting for Trump the Orange Turd?

That's a good one.

Seconded!

While I can envision a very few Sanders supporters voting for Trump in a Trump/Biden race, but it would be a very few who would actually do such a thing.

Also, the OP does sound a great deal like a typical posting from a Trump supporter and/or a Russian troll factory would produce.

MrFliop · 19th July 2020, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Crossbow

Seconded!

While I can envision a very few Sanders supporters voting for Trump in a Trump/Biden race, but it would be a very few who would actually do such a thing.

Also, the OP does sound a great deal like a typical posting from a Trump supporter and/or a Russian troll factory would produce.

Теперь, почему вы так думаете?

MrFliop · 19th July 2020, 02:26 PM

Oh no! Me forget turn on correct alphabet!

I now exposed!

Sideroxylon · 19th July 2020, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by MrFliop

Oh no! Me forget turn on correct alphabet!

I now exposed!

Cookie Monster?

Roger Ramjets · 19th July 2020, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by Belz...

Isn't that what people have been saying for 30 years?

No. People were worried, but nobody thought we were on the brink.

We've taken a giant leap backwards in the last 4 years.

18th July 2020, 01:01 PM	#1
MrFliop Thinker Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 197	Why many Sanders supporters will once again be voting for Trump this election I know, you’re thinking how could any person could support Trump and Sanders indifferently? Well I know a lot of Sanders supporters both in person and on the internet who were also secret Trump voters. I too supported Sanders in the 2016 primary but voted for Trump in the general election. I won’t do it again this year and I’ll give the reason why shortly, but....... Not all Bernie voters are Democratic Socialists. Many simply wanted him because he represents change. And, like it or not, Donald Trump represents change, whether in a good way or bad. And as long as the narrative is played that the establishment is doing everything it can to stop “outsider” president Trump then there will inevitably be a (much larger than you can imagine) portion of Bernie voters who secretly support him, even if they don’t talk about it in person. Also another reason is their belief in accelerationism. Sanders’ supporters are less interested in his socialist policies than they are of a political revolution that his presidency could bring about. Their thinking goes that if he cannot get elected the next best thing to bring about “the revolution” is to have someone unbelievably awful like Trump in office for 8 years. There was even a small faction of Sanders supporters in 2016 (including me) who believed that a Clinton loss could give Bernie a second chance in 2020. Well, that didn’t go according to plan did it? Still I’ve seen some fools on social media after Bernie dropped out this Spring urging fellow supporters to deny Biden victory in November to give Sanders yet another shot in 2024. Nope! Not doing that! I’m done with this! That is the sad reality! Bernie’s supporters are so eager for change that some will do everything possible to re-elect Trump this year, and there is NOTHING that their fellow liberals can say or do to change their minds.
MrFliop Thinker Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 197	Last edited by MrFliop; 18th July 2020 at 01:05 PM.

18th July 2020, 01:29 PM	#3
Safe-Keeper Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Norway Posts: 10,396	Originally Posted by Venom I'm not sure what these cynics/idealists expect out of their government at all at this point. They aren't playing their cards anymore; they're constantly folding until they get their One Perfect Candidate, and I fear they won't budge even if we are 30 years into the worst of global warming and on the brink of dictatorship. The US is already on the treshold of dictatorship. It might even be near an irreversible tipping point, like we are with the climate crisis. As are several countries in Europe, at least one of which seems to have tipped already . I genuenly believe that if Trump wins in November, it's over and out for the American republic as we know it, along with minority rights, access to abortion, open borders, and relations with the free world.
	__________________ "He's like a drunk being given a sobriety test by the police after being pulled over. Just as a drunk can't walk a straight line, Trump can't think in a straight line. He's all over the place."--Stacyhs "If you are still hung up on that whole words-have-meaning thing, then 2020 is going to be a long year for you." --Ladewig

18th July 2020, 02:02 PM	#4
Giordano Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 17,646	The polls I’ve seen indicate that over 80% of Sanders supporters say they will vote, if without enthusiasm, for Biden. e.g.: https://www.suffolk.edu/news-feature...-support-biden I don’t think they will be a significant source of Trump support this time (4% of those polled). But if one suggests they are lying to the pollsters? But of course this also allows the possibility that they are lying to the OP and they are strong Biden supporters...
	Last edited by Giordano; 18th July 2020 at 02:04 PM.

18th July 2020, 04:41 PM	#6
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,568	This thread is BS. Most likely posted by a Trump supporter or some Russian company. There may be one in a thousand Sanders supporters who will vote for Trump.....if that. Trump has proven himself not only tobe the Billionaire's boy handing tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans, doling out favors like it's Christmas to his friends and tearing apart and lining his pocket. Calling Trump corrupt is a massive understatement. He opposed making Healthcare affordable for all. All he ever did was try and destroy it. Anyone who says they are or were Sanders supporters and says they are voting for Trump are almost certainly liars. Then there is the simple fact that Trump is totally incompetent and not up to the job. His failures on the International stage are only overshadowed by his domestic failures. Putin's Bitch is responsible for a 100,000 deaths and that figure will likely double January. COVID alone is enough to kick his ass to the curb. Finally how he has dealt with the systemic racism and racial divides is nothing short of criminal Sanders supporters voting for Trump the Orange Turd? That's a good one.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . Last edited by acbytesla; 18th July 2020 at 04:43 PM.

18th July 2020, 04:54 PM	#7
PhantomWolf Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 20,378	Originally Posted by acbytesla This thread is BS. Most likely posted by a Trump supporter or some Russian company. There may be one in a thousand Sanders supporters who will vote for Trump.....if that. You clearly missed the post above you that showed a Suffolk University poll that showed it is actually about 1 in 25!
	__________________ It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

18th July 2020, 01:19 PM	#2
Venom Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 4,957	I'm not sure what these cynics/idealists expect out of their government at all at this point. They aren't playing their cards anymore; they're constantly folding until they get their One Perfect Candidate, and I fear they won't budge even if we are 30 years into the worst of global warming and on the brink of dictatorship.

18th July 2020, 02:18 PM	#5
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,202	Originally Posted by MrFliop I know, you’re thinking how could any person could support Trump and Sanders indifferently? Well I know a lot of Sanders supporters both in person and on the internet who were also secret Trump voters. I too supported Sanders in the 2016 primary but voted for Trump in the general election. I won’t do it again this year and I’ll give the reason why shortly, but....... Not all Bernie voters are Democratic Socialists. Many simply wanted him because he represents change. And, like it or not, Donald Trump represents change, whether in a good way or bad. And as long as the narrative is played that the establishment is doing everything it can to stop “outsider” president Trump then there will inevitably be a (much larger than you can imagine) portion of Bernie voters who secretly support him, even if they don’t talk about it in person. Also another reason is their belief in accelerationism. Sanders’ supporters are less interested in his socialist policies than they are of a political revolution that his presidency could bring about. Their thinking goes that if he cannot get elected the next best thing to bring about “the revolution” is to have someone unbelievably awful like Trump in office for 8 years. There was even a small faction of Sanders supporters in 2016 (including me) who believed that a Clinton loss could give Bernie a second chance in 2020. Well, that didn’t go according to plan did it? Still I’ve seen some fools on social media after Bernie dropped out this Spring urging fellow supporters to deny Biden victory in November to give Sanders yet another shot in 2024. Nope! Not doing that! I’m done with this! That is the sad reality! Bernie’s supporters are so eager for change that some will do everything possible to re-elect Trump this year, and there is NOTHING that their fellow liberals can say or do to change their minds. The kind of extremism you describe among some Bernie supporters is a sad reality. The irony is that their extremism and right wing extremism are just two sides of the coin.

18th July 2020, 05:02 PM	#8
Roger Ramjets Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,373	Forget about them. It's the 40% who normally don't vote at all that will be the decider.
	__________________ We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good.

18th July 2020, 05:05 PM	#9
Sideroxylon Featherless biped Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Aporia Posts: 24,443	Cool story, bro.

18th July 2020, 05:25 PM	#10
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,568	Originally Posted by PhantomWolf You clearly missed the post above you that showed a Suffolk University poll that showed it is actually about 1 in 25! Still 1 in 25 is insignificant. That's like a quarter point when you add in the rest of the electorate. Right now, Trump is down by 5 in Texas!
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . Last edited by acbytesla; 18th July 2020 at 05:40 PM.

18th July 2020, 05:55 PM	#11
MrFliop Thinker Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 197	Originally Posted by Giordano The polls I’ve seen indicate that over 80% of Sanders supporters say they will vote, if without enthusiasm, for Biden. e.g.: https://www.suffolk.edu/news-feature...-support-biden I don’t think they will be a significant source of Trump support this time (4% of those polled). But if one suggests they are lying to the pollsters? But of course this also allows the possibility that they are lying to the OP and they are strong Biden supporters... Other polls also say Trump would get about 15% from Sanders supporters. Roughly the same share he got in 2016. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ll/2936124001/ Also even if the Sanders supporters who don’t support Biden vote mostly third party instead of Trump, it would still help him.
MrFliop Thinker Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 197

18th July 2020, 05:58 PM	#12
MrFliop Thinker Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 197	Also, a 20% abstain vote from Sanders supporters could be harmful to Biden in key battle ground states. Let me give some examples: Traditionally incumbents receive less votes during primaries compared to competative primaries. Yet even though Biden was unopposed by this time he got LESS votes than Trump in the Ohio primary with Sanders receiving 16% despite the fact that he dropped out 3 weeks earlier. OH Dem Primary Biden: 647,284 Sanders: 149,683 Others: 97,416 Total: 894,383 OH GOP Primary (Trump was unopposed on ballot) Trump: 682,845 Then in the Pennsylvania primary, almost 2 months after Sanders withdrawal, Biden got slightly more votes than Trump with Sanders getting about 18%. PA Dem Primary Biden: 1,264,624 Sanders: 387,834 Others: 43,050 Total: 1,595,508 PA GOP Primary Trump: 1,043,311 Others: 88,902 Total: 1,132,213 It’s possible that those voting for Sanders didn’t get the memo that he dropped out (despite being weeks and months after). Or it’s a preview of the actual election results, with the majority of democratic voters consolidating around one candidate but a small percentage of Sanders supporters not voting for the nominee who in return gets less votes than Trump. And remember incumbents usually less turnout during their primaries.
MrFliop Thinker Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 197	Last edited by MrFliop; 18th July 2020 at 06:05 PM.

18th July 2020, 06:00 PM	#13
MrFliop Thinker Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 197	OH and PA are the only swing states that held primaries AFTER both parties had ONE nominee. But I’ll post the results of the other states to show how crucial Sanders voters are. FL Dem Primary Biden: 1,077,375 Sanders: 397,311 Others: 264,528 Total: 1,739,214 FL GOP Primary Trump: 1,162,984 Others: 76,955 Total: 1,239,939 NC Dem Primary Biden: 572,271 Sanders: 322,645 Others: 437,466 Total: 1,332,382 NC GOP Primary Trump: 750,600 Others: 51,927 Total: 802,527 WI Dem Primary Biden: 581,463 Sanders: 293,441 Others: 50,261 Total: 925,165 WI GOP Primary Trump: 616,782 Others: 13,416 Total: 630,198 MI DEM Primary Biden: 840,360 Sanders: 576,926 Others: 170,393 Total: 1,587,679 MI GOP Primary Trump: 639,500 Others: 3,067 Total: 642,567
MrFliop Thinker Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 197

18th July 2020, 06:01 PM	#14
portlandatheist Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,632	the bitter bernie bro demographic that voted for Trump out their spite is thankfully, a demographic we can all happily ignore this go around. Sanders outspent Biden massively in Texas and yet Bernie voters still felt disenfranchised by their loss but that is the false virtue of populism: they imagine they represent the "true will" of the "true people" but at the end of the day, they could really care less about who actually receives the most votes and will be sore losers.

18th July 2020, 06:08 PM	#15
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,568	Originally Posted by MrFliop Other polls also say Trump would get about 15% from Sanders supporters. Roughly the same share he got in 2016. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ll/2936124001/ Also even if the Sanders supporters who don’t support Biden vote mostly third party instead of Trump, it would still help him. Maybe. But I strongly doubt it. I have never see anyone engender such passionate dislike as Trump. People despise him with a passion. As his handling of the COVID pandemic gets worse and worse and the death toll continues to skyrocket, hell continue to lose support. He just found the issue he cannot pull off the headlines.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . Last edited by acbytesla; 18th July 2020 at 06:10 PM.

18th July 2020, 06:12 PM	#17
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 13,243	Originally Posted by MrFliop Also, a 20% abstain vote from Sanders supporters could be harmful to Biden in key battle ground states. Let me give some examples: Traditionally incumbents receive less votes during primaries compared to competative primaries. Yet even though Biden was unopposed by this time he got LESS votes than Trump in the Ohio primary with Sanders receiving 16% despite the fact that he dropped out 3 weeks earlier. OH Dem Primary Biden: 647,284 Sanders: 149,683 Others: 97,416 Total: 894,383 OH GOP Primary (Trump was unopposed on ballot) Trump: 682,845 Then in the Pennsylvania primary, almost 2 months after Sanders withdrawal, Biden got slightly more votes than Trump with Sanders getting about 18%. PA Dem Primary Biden: 1,264,624 Sanders: 387,834 Others: 43,050 Total: 1,595,508 PA GOP Primary Trump: 1,043,311 Others: 88,902 Total: 1,132,213 It’s possible that those voting for Sanders didn’t get the memo that he dropped out (despite being weeks and months after). Or it’s a preview of the actual election results, with the majority of democratic voters consolidating around one candidate but a small percentage of Sanders supporters not voting for the nominee who in return gets less votes than Trump. And remember incumbents usually less turnout during their primaries. Many folks voting for Sanders in PA and other late primaries were doing so as a message to Biden that they still want more progressive elements in o his platform. This was deliberate and there were a number of people advising this on social media and elsewhere. They weren’t sabatoging Biden or forgetting that Sanders suspended his campaign. They weren’t planning to vote for Trump later on, it was a message from progressive voters.
	__________________ www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- My store of science toys, instruments and general fun! Thanks for helping me win Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011,2012, and 2014! We won' be discussing the disappointment that was 2013.

18th July 2020, 06:16 PM	#18
CapelDodger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cardiff, South Wales Posts: 25,063	Originally Posted by MrFliop I know, you’re thinking how could any person could support Trump and Sanders indifferently? Actually I'm wondering why you're opening yourself up to humiliation on such a short time-scale.
	__________________ It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150

18th July 2020, 06:25 PM	#19
CapelDodger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cardiff, South Wales Posts: 25,063	Originally Posted by acbytesla Maybe. But I strongly doubt it. I have never see anyone engender such passionate dislike as Trump. People despise him with a passion. Count me in. Quote: As his handling of the COVID pandemic gets worse and worse and the death toll continues to skyrocket, hell continue to lose support. He just found the issue he cannot pull off the headlines. Trump's core support is chipping away, but like granite under a copper chisel. When it comes to it they'll cling to an existing COVID disaster with Trump rather than without.
	__________________ It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150

18th July 2020, 06:27 PM	#20
Bob001 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: US of A Posts: 12,947	Originally Posted by MrFliop .... Not all Bernie voters are Democratic Socialists. Many simply wanted him because he represents change. And, like it or not, Donald Trump represents change, whether in a good way or bad. .... But does he? He's been President for almost four years. He has a record. Did he bring the change the Bernie crowd hoped for? All Biden has to do is keep asking "Are you better off today than you were when I left office?" For many Americans, if not the majority, the answer is a resounding no.

18th July 2020, 06:37 PM	#21
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 17,321	Originally Posted by acbytesla This thread is BS. Most likely posted by a Trump supporter or some Russian company. .... Sanders supporters voting for Trump the Orange Turd? That's a good one. I would be willing to believe it. Sadly, not all voters make their decision based on rational thoughts... policy, integrity, etc. Some people take a much more nihilistic attitude. They want to wreck society, and they haven't given much thought about what they want to replace it with. To such a person, Sanders and Trump are a step towards achieving that goal. Quote: Still 1 in 25 is insignificant. That's like a quarter point when you add in the rest of the electorate. Keep in mind that there were other polls that show slightly different results. For example, during the primaries, an ABC/Washington Post poll showed ~15% of Sanders supporters said they would vote for Trump. (USA Today) Near the end of the primaries, Sanders had approximately 30% support. So depending on which numbers you look at, you could be looking at between .5% and 5% of the Democrats supporting Trump. Hopefully you're right, and it won't matter. But when you have some states being decided by less than 1%, even a few thousand lost votes could be a problem.
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot

18th July 2020, 06:47 PM	#22
MrFliop Thinker Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 197	Originally Posted by kookbreaker Many folks voting for Sanders in PA and other late primaries were doing so as a message to Biden that they still want more progressive elements in o his platform. To get more delegates, to influence the Democratic Party’s Platform for 2020. Just like the DNC tried in 2016 when it drafted what it called “The Most Progressive Platform”. And yet 15% of Sanders supporters weren’t convinced then. How could their trust be earned this time? Don’t get me wrong, I want Trump out. It would be even better if Biden ran and won promising to implement actual progressive policies. But how would we really believe him at his word?
MrFliop Thinker Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 197	Last edited by MrFliop; 18th July 2020 at 06:50 PM.

18th July 2020, 07:20 PM	#23
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,568	Originally Posted by Segnosaur I would be willing to believe it. Sadly, not all voters make their decision based on rational thoughts... policy, integrity, etc. Some people take a much more nihilistic attitude. They want to wreck society, and they haven't given much thought about what they want to replace it with. To such a person, Sanders and Trump are a step towards achieving that goal. Keep in mind that there were other polls that show slightly different results. For example, during the primaries, an ABC/Washington Post poll showed ~15% of Sanders supporters said they would vote for Trump. (USA Today) Near the end of the primaries, Sanders had approximately 30% support. So depending on which numbers you look at, you could be looking at between .5% and 5% of the Democrats supporting Trump. Hopefully you're right, and it won't matter. But when you have some states being decided by less than 1%, even a few thousand lost votes could be a problem. Let's hope it doesn't come down to that. But even if it did, there is absolutely nothing we can do about it. Anyone who would go from Sanders to Trump is bat crap crazy. They have absolutely nothing in common. Bernie is a good man. Trump is a terrible human being. Bernie has been helping people for 50 years. Trump has been conning people for 50 years. Bernie is a Democratic Socialist. Trump is NOT. Bernie is anti-nuclear Trump is pro-nuclear. (The one issue I side with Trump) Bernie is for Universal healthcare. Trump is trying to eliminate any health care assistance. Bernie is for expanding the social safety net. Trump is trying to eliminate it. Trump stands against everything the Sanders stands for.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

18th July 2020, 07:23 PM	#24
bruto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy Posts: 28,197	I can sort of understand what Mr. Fliop is saying, though I greatly disagree with it. Alas, there are many fools in the world, and it behooves us not to spend too much energy analyzing their delusions and errors. There will always be people who believe the wrong things and do the wrong things for the wrong reasons. However, I hope that a sufficient number of those who supported Sanders will realize that Trump offers nothing close to what Sanders might have, and that Trump's promise of novelty was false, and also that some might remember what seems to have eluded many - Sanders (and I mean no disrespect, I like him) is not an inexperienced political outsider. He's an outsider to the Democratic party, but he's a career politician, not a failed businessman. He knows the ropes. And I hope they also remember that Sanders, radical and excitable and unconventional as he can sometimes appear, has some integrity and intelligence, qualities Trump appears not to have at all.
	__________________ I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver) Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard) Last edited by bruto; 18th July 2020 at 07:25 PM. Reason: Trump's for "the" for clarity

18th July 2020, 08:50 PM	#25
Sideroxylon Featherless biped Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Aporia Posts: 24,443	Originally Posted by bruto I can sort of understand what Mr. Fliop is saying, though I greatly disagree with it. Alas, there are many fools in the world, and it behooves us not to spend too much energy analyzing their delusions and errors. There will always be people who believe the wrong things and do the wrong things for the wrong reasons. However, I hope that a sufficient number of those who supported Sanders will realize that Trump offers nothing close to what Sanders might have, and that Trump's promise of novelty was false, and also that some might remember what seems to have eluded many - Sanders (and I mean no disrespect, I like him) is not an inexperienced political outsider. He's an outsider to the Democratic party, but he's a career politician, not a failed businessman. He knows the ropes. And I hope they also remember that Sanders, radical and excitable and unconventional as he can sometimes appear, has some integrity and intelligence, qualities Trump appears not to have at all. Trump’s universal healthcare and living wage policies will swing some away from Biden.

18th July 2020, 09:00 PM	#26
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,568	Originally Posted by Sideroxylon Trump’s universal healthcare and living wage policies will swing some away from Biden. ?????????
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

19th July 2020, 02:03 AM	#27
Venom Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 4,957	Originally Posted by MrFliop To get more delegates, to influence the Democratic Party’s Platform for 2020. Just like the DNC tried in 2016 when it drafted what it called “The Most Progressive Platform”. And yet 15% of Sanders supporters weren’t convinced then. How could their trust be earned this time? Don’t get me wrong, I want Trump out. It would be even better if Biden ran and won promising to implement actual progressive policies. But how would we really believe him at his word? Progressives get so caught up in this sometimes. The primaries are long over. Get the ****** out and have enough of the right people in Congress and put pressure on Biden to enact more progressive policies. Biden may not be anything special but like many career politicians he tends to side with whatever he finds politically expedient. He should have a hundred reasons in the House and Senate to bring progressives to the table.

19th July 2020, 02:22 AM	#28
llwyd Muse Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 760	Yeah, no.
llwyd Muse Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 760

19th July 2020, 04:13 AM	#29
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a post-fact world Posts: 91,978	Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper The US is already on the treshold of dictatorship. It might even be near an irreversible tipping point, like we are with the climate crisis. As are several countries in Europe, at least one of which seems to have tipped already . I genuenly believe that if Trump wins in November, it's over and out for the American republic as we know it, along with minority rights, access to abortion, open borders, and relations with the free world. Isn't that what people have been saying for 30 years?
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

19th July 2020, 04:28 AM	#30
bonzombiekitty Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 1,727	Originally Posted by kookbreaker Many folks voting for Sanders in PA and other late primaries were doing so as a message to Biden that they still want more progressive elements in o his platform. This was deliberate and there were a number of people advising this on social media and elsewhere. They weren’t sabatoging Biden or forgetting that Sanders suspended his campaign. They weren’t planning to vote for Trump later on, it was a message from progressive voters. This. More votes for Sanders even after the campaign means more input from that wing of the party on the party platform, etc Any Sanders voters that vote for Trump this time around are likely the same Sanders supports that voted for Trump on 2016. All that is necessary is for there to be fewer of them this time around, and I can't see how it isn't the case. In 2016, Sanders voters were angry at the DNC because of how they treated Sanders during the primary and Trump was a political unknown - that would have driven them to opt for Trump instead.
	Last edited by bonzombiekitty; 19th July 2020 at 04:32 AM.

19th July 2020, 04:39 AM	#31
Beelzebuddy Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 8,095	Originally Posted by Venom Progressives get so caught up in this sometimes. The primaries are long over. Get the ****** out and have enough of the right people in Congress and put pressure on Biden to enact more progressive policies. Biden may not be anything special but like many career politicians he tends to side with whatever he finds politically expedient. He should have a hundred reasons in the House and Senate to bring progressives to the table. Why do you think "you guys should wait until the stakes are low enough to ignore you before asking to be heard" is a compelling argument?* Isn't Trump enough of a reason to bring them to the table now? Is the progressive vote important enough to demand concessions, or small enough not to matter? You can't have it both ways. Anyway, I don't believe the OP's straw Bernie Bros exist in any real numbers. You'll always find some weirdos to point to (Trump also has IIRC 8% of the Black vote), but I've never met anyone who supported Sanders but is voting for Trump who wasn't a right-wing troll moonlighting as a Democrat. *[ETA] Well, other than it working so well for so long on mainstream Democrats. Don't worry guys, the GOP is totally going to work with us on a bunch of our policy bills as soon as we vote with them on this emergency matter. They even pinky promised this time!
Beelzebuddy Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 8,095	Last edited by Beelzebuddy; 19th July 2020 at 04:51 AM.

19th July 2020, 06:17 AM	#32
Craig4 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: I live in a swamp Posts: 22,820	For the polling data to be that off, it would take a huge number Sanders supporters organized to lie when called. You'd need a huge number of people because only a small fraction of people ever get called for polls. I could see numbers of being a bit off with some Trump voters as they may not want to admit to planning to vote for Trump out of fear of being seen as stupid. There may have been some of that going on in 2016.

19th July 2020, 08:36 AM	#33
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,568	Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy Anyway, I don't believe the OP's straw Bernie Bros exist in any real numbers. You'll always find some weirdos to point to (Trump also has IIRC 8% of the Black vote), but I've never met anyone who supported Sanders but is voting for Trump who wasn't a right-wing troll moonlighting as a Democrat. This! My point exactly. Well said. .
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

19th July 2020, 11:34 AM	#34
Venom Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 4,957	Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy Why do you think "you guys should wait until the stakes are low enough to ignore you before asking to be heard" is a compelling argument?* Isn't Trump enough of a reason to bring them to the table now? Is the progressive vote important enough to demand concessions, or small enough not to matter? You can't have it both ways. I'm simply saying keep up pressure on Biden. He's already met with Sanders a few times. Giving up because Biden isn't your ideal candidate solves nothing. He's in a position where he'll have to address a growing progressive movement at one point or another.

19th July 2020, 12:11 PM	#35
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,202	Originally Posted by Craig4 For the polling data to be that off, it would take a huge number Sanders supporters organized to lie when called. You'd need a huge number of people because only a small fraction of people ever get called for polls. I could see numbers of being a bit off with some Trump voters as they may not want to admit to planning to vote for Trump out of fear of being seen as stupid. There may have been some of that going on in 2016. No. Nor do they lie to pollsters about whom they're voting for out of fear/reprisals as has been claimed. People may lie to family and friends if those are vehemently anti-Trump in order not to create problems, but not because they think they'll be seen as stupid by some anonymous pollsters. THEY don't think they're stupid and they're not embarrassed or they wouldn't be voting for Trump. And if they are, they should ask themselves why.

19th July 2020, 01:36 PM	#36
Crossbow Seeking Honesty and Sanity Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Charleston, WV Posts: 13,398	Originally Posted by acbytesla This thread is BS. Most likely posted by a Trump supporter or some Russian company. There may be one in a thousand Sanders supporters who will vote for Trump.....if that. Trump has proven himself not only tobe the Billionaire's boy handing tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans, doling out favors like it's Christmas to his friends and tearing apart and lining his pocket. Calling Trump corrupt is a massive understatement. He opposed making Healthcare affordable for all. All he ever did was try and destroy it. Anyone who says they are or were Sanders supporters and says they are voting for Trump are almost certainly liars. Then there is the simple fact that Trump is totally incompetent and not up to the job. His failures on the International stage are only overshadowed by his domestic failures. Putin's Bitch is responsible for a 100,000 deaths and that figure will likely double January. COVID alone is enough to kick his ass to the curb. Finally how he has dealt with the systemic racism and racial divides is nothing short of criminal Sanders supporters voting for Trump the Orange Turd? That's a good one. Seconded! While I can envision a very few Sanders supporters voting for Trump in a Trump/Biden race, but it would be a very few who would actually do such a thing. Also, the OP does sound a great deal like a typical posting from a Trump supporter and/or a Russian troll factory would produce.
	__________________ I can barely believe that I made it through the Trump presidency. On 15 FEB 2019 'BobTheCoward' said: "I constantly assert I am a fool." A man's best friend is his dogma.