General UK politics - Page 3

Dave Rogers · 30th September 2020, 01:11 AM

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

As it is, I've explained my position three times now, and you keep addressing something else, so I'm not really convinced that anything productive will come out of reiterating it a fourth time.

Your position appears to be that, in a PR system, the largest single party must be allowed to form a government. If that were true, it would negate one of the most important features of PR, which is that a coalition can be formed with broad support from whichever parties are prepared to work together to form a majority, whether the single largest party agrees with them or not. What worries me is that Clegg's LDs may have understood the possibilities of PR no better than you do.

Dave

Guybrush Threepwood · 30th September 2020, 01:41 AM

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

Right, which is why the examples you keep coming back to are different to the actual situation that existed at the time.

As it is, I've explained my position three times now, and you keep addressing something else, so I'm not really convinced that anything productive will come out of reiterating it a fourth time.

You could well be right, certainly if you keep explaining it as you have done.
If your position is not what Dave Rogers, Catsmate and Archie Gemmell Goal have been arguing against, then I don't know what it is either.

Squeegee Beckenheim · 30th September 2020, 01:54 AM

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers

Your position appears to be that, in a PR system, the largest single party must be allowed to form a government.

Originally Posted by Guybrush Threepwood

If your position is not what Dave Rogers, Catsmate and Archie Gemmell Goal have been arguing against, then I don't know what it is either.

As I say, there doesn't seem to be much point. I have been clear, and I don't think there's much else I can do at this stage.

Guybrush Threepwood · 30th September 2020, 02:35 AM

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

As I say, there doesn't seem to be much point. I have been clear, and I don't think there's much else I can do at this stage.

Whether you try again is entirely up to you, however as it seems that nobody participating in the thread except you understands what your point is, then I do not think the highlighted part is accurate.

Squeegee Beckenheim · 30th September 2020, 02:57 AM

If you say so.

Darat · 30th September 2020, 03:00 AM

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54330880

"New" revolutionary adult training system to be created. So those aged say 70 can be retrained as brickies rather than getting a state pension.

Johnson wants us to get away with this idea of always valuing degrees above vocational qualifications. Presumably he is fed up with people who didn't go to the right public school and the right college acting as if they are qualified for Johnson's mates' jobs!

zooterkin · 30th September 2020, 03:41 AM

I thought that might help me for a second, as I'm in the process of signing up for a course, but then spotted that I'd not be eligible as I've got A level (and higher) qualifications already.

Darat · 30th September 2020, 03:51 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54330880

"New" revolutionary adult training system to be created. So those aged say 70 can be retrained as brickies rather than getting a state pension.

Johnson wants us to get away with this idea of always valuing degrees above vocational qualifications. Presumably he is fed up with people who didn't go to the right public school and the right college acting as if they are qualified for Johnson's mates' jobs!

Actually I've realised something this is because they are **** scared that they will have to start paying a true living wage for their housekeepers, gardeners, drivers and the like once they can't employ cheap eastern EU staff!

catsmate · 30th September 2020, 05:54 AM

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers

Your position appears to be that, in a PR system, the largest single party must be allowed to form a government. If that were true, it would negate one of the most important features of PR, which is that a coalition can be formed with broad support from whichever parties are prepared to work together to form a majority, whether the single largest party agrees with them or not. What worries me is that Clegg's LDs may have understood the possibilities of PR no better than you do.

Dave

Indeed. Let us examine the 2020 General Election results in Ireland, based on PR/STV.

Sinn Féin displayed the same sense of entitlement and demanded to be part of any government, but made no real effort to form a coalition with the necessary majority of seats.
Hence the government is based on a Fianna Fáil/Fine Gael/Green Party coalition which have a majority of the seats, and also (but by no means necessarily) a majority of the first preference votes.

Archie Gemmill Goal · 30th September 2020, 06:15 AM

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

As I say, there doesn't seem to be much point. I have been clear, and I don't think there's much else I can do at this stage.

I genuinely don't understand what your point is then either. If it isn't that a party supporting PR should act in a way consistent with PR then I'm lost.

Dave Rogers · 1st October 2020, 09:24 AM

So, as far as I can see, the government are currently considering transportation and prison hulks for asylum seekers. I wonder whether they've considered debtors' prison or sending them up chimneys?

Dave

The Don · 1st October 2020, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers

So, as far as I can see, the government are currently considering transportation and prison hulks for asylum seekers. I wonder whether they've considered debtors' prison or sending them up chimneys?

Dave

Me, from 2017.....

Originally Posted by The Don

The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place.

I think in retrospect, I was being overly optimistic

Mojo · 1st October 2020, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Actually I've realised something this is because they are **** scared that they will have to start paying a true living wage for their housekeepers, gardeners, drivers and the like once they can't employ cheap eastern EU staff!

That’s why Brexit needs to be “no deal”. There’s nothing like a nice big pool of unemployed for keeping wages down. They actually admitted back in the 90s that mass unemployment was “a price worth paying”, remember.

Carrot Flower King · 2nd October 2020, 03:17 AM

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers

So, as far as I can see, the government are currently considering transportation and prison hulks for asylum seekers. I wonder whether they've considered debtors' prison or sending them up chimneys?

Dave

Wasn't it John Major who called for a return to Victorian values?

P.J. Denyer · 2nd October 2020, 06:21 AM

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers

So, as far as I can see, the government are currently considering transportation and prison hulks for asylum seekers. I wonder whether they've considered debtors' prison or sending them up chimneys?

Dave

I've been expecting the opening of the first Rees-Mogg branded workhouse for some time.

But then my theory is that his shell is animated by the unquiet spirit of a Victorian workhouse master tied like Marley to this Earth by the chains of avarice he forged in life.

RolandRat · 4th October 2020, 10:37 AM

"Home Secretary Priti Patel has launched an attack on human rights “do-gooders” and “lefty lawyers” who she claimed were united with people-traffickers in wanting to prevent reform of the UK’s “broken” asylum system.

“And yet they seem to care little about the rights of the most vulnerable who are fleeing persecution, oppression and tyranny.

“What about their right to live their lives securely and free from fear? That is the most fundamental right.”

She said: “Under Conservative leadership, the United Kingdom has and always will provide sanctuary when the lights are being switched off on people's liberties.

“As for those defending the broken system – the traffickers, the do-gooders, the lefty lawyers, the Labour Party – they are defending the indefensible."

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...?ocid=msedgdhp

Captain_Swoop · 4th October 2020, 01:53 PM

The UK’s asylum system is “fundamentally broken” is it?

Ten years they’ve been in charge. Ten ******* years.

Captain_Swoop · 4th October 2020, 01:55 PM

Comments I have seen would seem to suggests it's the fault of the EU that our system is 'broken' but now they can fix it.

Tolls · 5th October 2020, 12:36 AM

Have they managed to actually, you know, say what is broken about it?
Rather than simply saying it's broken, of course.

You know, a bit like actually saying what EU laws are problematic rather than simply stating there are some problematic ones...

The Don · 5th October 2020, 01:11 AM

Originally Posted by Tolls

Have they managed to actually, you know, say what is broken about it?
Rather than simply saying it's broken, of course.

You know, a bit like actually saying what EU laws are problematic rather than simply stating there are some problematic ones...

It's broken because the wrong sort of people are allowed to claim asylum.

The wrong sort being any group other than a small, media friendly, group fleeing a high profile problem - Iraqi Christians spring to mind. It's also nice if they ****-off back at the first opportunity.

The Conservatives are unhappy with the concept of asylum because it allows brown people into the UK.

Captain_Swoop · 5th October 2020, 03:29 AM

Official House of Commons Twitter account banned from publicising the outcome of Parliamentary votes because informing the public about how their elected representatives have voted is supposedly ‘biased’ against the government.

https://evolvepolitics.com/tories-ba...he-government/

RolandRat · 5th October 2020, 10:52 AM

"Government dealt string of defeats on post-Brexit immigration bill in Lords

Peers have backed a call for unaccompanied child refugees to be reunited with close relatives in the UK as they inflicted a series of defeats on Boris Johnson's flagship post-Brexit immigration bill.

The Lords overwhelmingly supported an amendment by Lord Dubs, who himself fled the Nazis as a child, to restore potections after the EU transition period ends later this year.

Before the vote Lord Dubs had asked: “Surely it is right that when there are young people who have got relatives here that family reunion must be a basic, basic thing that we should support?"

The vote was one of a number of defeats home secretary Priti Patel suffered as peers considered the legislation in the Lords, just hours after she pledged to ‘fix’ what she said was a broken asylum system."

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...?ocid=msedgdhp

Mojo · 7th October 2020, 09:48 AM

Boris has called for a response to the post-COVID era like the one after WWII:

Quote:

“In the depths of the second world war, in 1942, when just about everything had gone wrong, the government sketched out a vision of the postwar new Jerusalem that they wanted to build. And that is what we are doing now – in the teeth of this pandemic.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ch-really-mean

The first step seems obvious.

Mojo · 7th October 2020, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by Mojo

The first step seems obvious.

So many parallels:

Quote:

Churchill sought to use his wartime popularity as part of his campaign to keep the Conservatives in power after a wartime coalition had been spent since 1940 with the other political parties, but he faced questions from public opinion surrounding the Conservatives' actions in the 1930s and his ability to handle domestic issues unrelated to warfare. Clement Attlee, who led the Labour Party, was seen as a more competent leader by voters, particularly those who feared a return to the levels of unemployment in the 1930s and sought a strong figurehead in British politics to lead the postwar rebuilding of the country. Opinion polls when the election was called showed strong approval ratings for Churchill, but Labour had gradually gained support for months prior to the war's conclusion.

Captain_Swoop · 7th October 2020, 10:44 AM

Boris says it should be done by private enterprise and not state lead though. So no comparison with post ww2 at all.

Mojo · 8th October 2020, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Boris says it should be done by private enterprise and not state lead though.

As I said, the first step is obvious.

Darat · 8th October 2020, 09:24 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...he-lobbied-for

Sleaze.

Good old-fashioned Conservative behaviour!

Mojo · 8th October 2020, 01:41 PM

It’ll be OK, we’ll all be able to retrain as cinema projectionists, lock-keepers, or boxers.

Boxer or lock-keeper? Government careers quiz scorned by users

Quote:

A government jobs quiz aimed at identifying potential new areas of work provides a string of unhelpful career suggestions including lock-keeping and boxing as well as currently precarious posts including airline pilot and cinema projectionist, users have complained.

Captain_Swoop · 8th October 2020, 02:06 PM

Imagine how it would be now if Ed Milliband had won the election in 2015. A properly funded NHS with nurses and doctors who aren't demoralised, a public sector able to deal with the pandemic and stability instead of chaos and the disaster plus, no Brexit.
But there was a picture of him eating a bacon sandwich so obviously he wasn't fit to be Prime Minister.

sphenisc · 8th October 2020, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Mojo

It’ll be OK, we’ll all be able to retrain as cinema projectionists, lock-keepers, or boxers.

Boxer or lock-keeper? Government careers quiz scorned by users

Thought we were all supposed to be digging foundations for offshore wind farms?

zooterkin · 10th October 2020, 07:14 AM

It may be the usual nostalgia effect, but I do not recall the UK having such a corrupt and incompetent government in my lifetime as we have now. While I may have disagreed (violently in some cases) with the policies, at least the people in the Cabinet were generally able to do their jobs, and with at least some semblance of doing things for the public good rather than lining the pockets of their friends.

P.J. Denyer · 10th October 2020, 09:37 AM

I honestly don't think it's just nostalgia.

Carrot Flower King · 10th October 2020, 10:36 AM

There's been the odd numpty or eejit in most cabinets during my life time (I'm in my early 60s), but this bunch aren't even sensible or competent enough to make it as numpties or eejits, well off into couldn't find the brewery for the drunken entertainment category.

Definitely NOT nostalgia.

Captain_Swoop · 10th October 2020, 03:21 PM

No 10 press secretary Allegra Stratton is married to the Spectator political editor who works with the commissioning editor married to Dominic Cummings adviser to Boris Johnson. The Spectator is part of Press Holdings: chairman Andrew Neil & owned by Barclay Bros.

P.J. Denyer · 11th October 2020, 02:45 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

No 10 press secretary Allegra Stratton is married to the Spectator political editor who works with the commissioning editor married to Dominic Cummings adviser to Boris Johnson. The Spectator is part of Press Holdings: chairman Andrew Neil & owned by Barclay Bros.

Here in Whitehall we have a lucrative contract to hand out, so hold on to your sears as it's time to spin "The Wheel of Nepotisim"!

Darat · 11th October 2020, 06:11 AM

The difference today is that more people have access to the information and you have lots of people not from the establishment willing to "publish" this information. Go back to Thatcher's years and they were all in it for backhanders, non-exec directorships, jobs and lucrative contracts and the like. Go back to the 60s and 70s and it was even worse, up to their necks for access to the "glamour" of the gangsters, to sex workers and all the rest.

And never forget that Major's years were embroiled in constant sleaze of every kind not just "family values", the press had enough sex stories to get them sales they didn't have space for all the other sleaze!

So I would say that they were equally incompetent back then, in fact I'd say they were worse because there was zero expectation that ministers were meant to do anything and be competent, it is a sign of a (very slow) change in culture that we now expect ministers to be competent and do something!

RolandRat · 11th October 2020, 04:00 PM

Following on from Patels stance on immigration:

"A “violent, racist attack” in which a man entered a law firm in London armed with a knife was inspired by a speech given by Priti Patel, lawyers have claimed.

On 7 September, a 28-year-old man entered the office of a law firm whose identity has been withheld, armed with a knife. He was subsequently charged with assault, racially aggravated public disorder, possession of, and making threats with, a bladed article in a public place and making threats to kill.

Days earlier, the home secretary had complained about “activist lawyers” who were working to delay the removal of failed asylum seekers."

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/knife-atta...154456285.html

caveman1917 · 11th October 2020, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by RolandRat

Following on from Patels stance on immigration:

"A “violent, racist attack” in which a man entered a law firm in London armed with a knife was inspired by a speech given by Priti Patel, lawyers have claimed.

On 7 September, a 28-year-old man entered the office of a law firm whose identity has been withheld, armed with a knife. He was subsequently charged with assault, racially aggravated public disorder, possession of, and making threats with, a bladed article in a public place and making threats to kill.

Days earlier, the home secretary had complained about “activist lawyers” who were working to delay the removal of failed asylum seekers."

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/knife-atta...154456285.html

Next up is black sites and kidnappings leaving targeted people in overburdened rafts on sea, who then risk being capsized by the Coast Guard to make them drown.

Gulliver Foyle · 12th October 2020, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Imagine how it would be now if Ed Milliband had won the election in 2015. A properly funded NHS with nurses and doctors who aren't demoralised, a public sector able to deal with the pandemic and stability instead of chaos and the disaster plus, no Brexit.
But there was a picture of him eating a bacon sandwich so obviously he wasn't fit to be Prime Minister.

Plus he got scared as the election drew in and dropped every single policy Labour had and began aping the tories.

Originally Posted by zooterkin

It may be the usual nostalgia effect, but I do not recall the UK having such a corrupt and incompetent government in my lifetime as we have now. While I may have disagreed (violently in some cases) with the policies, at least the people in the Cabinet were generally able to do their jobs, and with at least some semblance of doing things for the public good rather than lining the pockets of their friends.

The joke doing the rounds in diplomatic circles during the Thatcher years was how easily and cheaply UK ministers could be bought. I think the going rate was £10,000 for a Cabinet Secretary, and a bit of plamásing for the PM herself.

Captain_Swoop · 15th October 2020, 05:25 AM

How come Cummings gets away with £50k unpaid council tax when people have been sent to jail for owing a tiny fraction of that?

30th September 2020, 01:11 AM	#81
Dave Rogers Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD Posts: 32,427	Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim As it is, I've explained my position three times now, and you keep addressing something else, so I'm not really convinced that anything productive will come out of reiterating it a fourth time. Your position appears to be that, in a PR system, the largest single party must be allowed to form a government. If that were true, it would negate one of the most important features of PR, which is that a coalition can be formed with broad support from whichever parties are prepared to work together to form a majority, whether the single largest party agrees with them or not. What worries me is that Clegg's LDs may have understood the possibilities of PR no better than you do. Dave
	__________________ There is truth and there are lies. - President Joseph R. Biden, January 20th, 2021

30th September 2020, 01:54 AM	#83
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 31,436	Originally Posted by Dave Rogers Your position appears to be that, in a PR system, the largest single party must be allowed to form a government. Originally Posted by Guybrush Threepwood If your position is not what Dave Rogers, Catsmate and Archie Gemmell Goal have been arguing against, then I don't know what it is either. As I say, there doesn't seem to be much point. I have been clear, and I don't think there's much else I can do at this stage.
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

30th September 2020, 02:57 AM	#85
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 31,436	If you say so.
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

30th September 2020, 03:00 AM	#86
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,866	https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54330880 "New" revolutionary adult training system to be created. So those aged say 70 can be retrained as brickies rather than getting a state pension. Johnson wants us to get away with this idea of always valuing degrees above vocational qualifications. Presumably he is fed up with people who didn't go to the right public school and the right college acting as if they are qualified for Johnson's mates' jobs!
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

30th September 2020, 03:41 AM	#87
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Administrator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 48,856	I thought that might help me for a second, as I'm in the process of signing up for a course, but then spotted that I'd not be eligible as I've got A level (and higher) qualifications already.
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20

30th September 2020, 01:41 AM	#82
Guybrush Threepwood Trainee Pirate Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: An Uaimh Posts: 3,087	Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim Right, which is why the examples you keep coming back to are different to the actual situation that existed at the time. As it is, I've explained my position three times now, and you keep addressing something else, so I'm not really convinced that anything productive will come out of reiterating it a fourth time. You could well be right, certainly if you keep explaining it as you have done. If your position is not what Dave Rogers, Catsmate and Archie Gemmell Goal have been arguing against, then I don't know what it is either.

30th September 2020, 02:35 AM	#84
Guybrush Threepwood Trainee Pirate Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: An Uaimh Posts: 3,087	Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim As I say, there doesn't seem to be much point. I have been clear, and I don't think there's much else I can do at this stage. Whether you try again is entirely up to you, however as it seems that nobody participating in the thread except you understands what your point is, then I do not think the highlighted part is accurate.

30th September 2020, 03:51 AM	#88
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,866	Originally Posted by Darat https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54330880 "New" revolutionary adult training system to be created. So those aged say 70 can be retrained as brickies rather than getting a state pension. Johnson wants us to get away with this idea of always valuing degrees above vocational qualifications. Presumably he is fed up with people who didn't go to the right public school and the right college acting as if they are qualified for Johnson's mates' jobs! Actually I've realised something this is because they are **** scared that they will have to start paying a true living wage for their housekeepers, gardeners, drivers and the like once they can't employ cheap eastern EU staff!
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

30th September 2020, 05:54 AM	#89
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 24,370	Originally Posted by Dave Rogers Your position appears to be that, in a PR system, the largest single party must be allowed to form a government. If that were true, it would negate one of the most important features of PR, which is that a coalition can be formed with broad support from whichever parties are prepared to work together to form a majority, whether the single largest party agrees with them or not. What worries me is that Clegg's LDs may have understood the possibilities of PR no better than you do. Dave Indeed. Let us examine the 2020 General Election results in Ireland, based on PR/STV. Sinn Féin displayed the same sense of entitlement and demanded to be part of any government, but made no real effort to form a coalition with the necessary majority of seats. Hence the government is based on a Fianna Fáil/Fine Gael/Green Party coalition which have a majority of the seats, and also (but by no means necessarily) a majority of the first preference votes.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

30th September 2020, 06:15 AM	#90
Archie Gemmill Goal Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 7,828	Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim As I say, there doesn't seem to be much point. I have been clear, and I don't think there's much else I can do at this stage. I genuinely don't understand what your point is then either. If it isn't that a party supporting PR should act in a way consistent with PR then I'm lost.
	__________________ "I love sex and drugs and sausage rolls But nothing compares to Archie Gemmill's goal"

1st October 2020, 09:24 AM	#91
Dave Rogers Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD Posts: 32,427	So, as far as I can see, the government are currently considering transportation and prison hulks for asylum seekers. I wonder whether they've considered debtors' prison or sending them up chimneys? Dave
	__________________ There is truth and there are lies. - President Joseph R. Biden, January 20th, 2021

1st October 2020, 10:44 AM	#92
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,650	Originally Posted by Dave Rogers So, as far as I can see, the government are currently considering transportation and prison hulks for asylum seekers. I wonder whether they've considered debtors' prison or sending them up chimneys? Dave Me, from 2017..... Originally Posted by The Don The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place. I think in retrospect, I was being overly optimistic

1st October 2020, 10:47 AM	#93
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 33,893	Originally Posted by Darat Actually I've realised something this is because they are **** scared that they will have to start paying a true living wage for their housekeepers, gardeners, drivers and the like once they can't employ cheap eastern EU staff! That’s why Brexit needs to be “no deal”. There’s nothing like a nice big pool of unemployed for keeping wages down. They actually admitted back in the 90s that mass unemployment was “a price worth paying”, remember.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

2nd October 2020, 03:17 AM	#94
Carrot Flower King Muse Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Northumberland, UK Posts: 922	Originally Posted by Dave Rogers So, as far as I can see, the government are currently considering transportation and prison hulks for asylum seekers. I wonder whether they've considered debtors' prison or sending them up chimneys? Dave Wasn't it John Major who called for a return to Victorian values?

2nd October 2020, 06:21 AM	#95
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 8,019	Originally Posted by Dave Rogers So, as far as I can see, the government are currently considering transportation and prison hulks for asylum seekers. I wonder whether they've considered debtors' prison or sending them up chimneys? Dave I've been expecting the opening of the first Rees-Mogg branded workhouse for some time. But then my theory is that his shell is animated by the unquiet spirit of a Victorian workhouse master tied like Marley to this Earth by the chains of avarice he forged in life.
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 8,019	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills

4th October 2020, 10:37 AM	#96
RolandRat Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 1,015	"Home Secretary Priti Patel has launched an attack on human rights “do-gooders” and “lefty lawyers” who she claimed were united with people-traffickers in wanting to prevent reform of the UK’s “broken” asylum system. “And yet they seem to care little about the rights of the most vulnerable who are fleeing persecution, oppression and tyranny. “What about their right to live their lives securely and free from fear? That is the most fundamental right.” She said: “Under Conservative leadership, the United Kingdom has and always will provide sanctuary when the lights are being switched off on people's liberties. “As for those defending the broken system – the traffickers, the do-gooders, the lefty lawyers, the Labour Party – they are defending the indefensible." https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...?ocid=msedgdhp

4th October 2020, 01:53 PM	#97
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Pither 12/20 Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 32,816	The UK’s asylum system is “fundamentally broken” is it? Ten years they’ve been in charge. Ten ******* years.

4th October 2020, 01:55 PM	#98
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Pither 12/20 Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 32,816	Comments I have seen would seem to suggests it's the fault of the EU that our system is 'broken' but now they can fix it.

5th October 2020, 12:36 AM	#99
Tolls Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: UK Posts: 5,229	Have they managed to actually, you know, say what is broken about it? Rather than simply saying it's broken, of course. You know, a bit like actually saying what EU laws are problematic rather than simply stating there are some problematic ones...

5th October 2020, 01:11 AM	#100
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,650	Originally Posted by Tolls Have they managed to actually, you know, say what is broken about it? Rather than simply saying it's broken, of course. You know, a bit like actually saying what EU laws are problematic rather than simply stating there are some problematic ones... It's broken because the wrong sort of people are allowed to claim asylum. The wrong sort being any group other than a small, media friendly, group fleeing a high profile problem - Iraqi Christians spring to mind. It's also nice if they ****-off back at the first opportunity. The Conservatives are unhappy with the concept of asylum because it allows brown people into the UK.

5th October 2020, 03:29 AM	#101
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Pither 12/20 Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 32,816	Official House of Commons Twitter account banned from publicising the outcome of Parliamentary votes because informing the public about how their elected representatives have voted is supposedly ‘biased’ against the government. https://evolvepolitics.com/tories-ba...he-government/

5th October 2020, 10:52 AM	#102
RolandRat Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 1,015	"Government dealt string of defeats on post-Brexit immigration bill in Lords Peers have backed a call for unaccompanied child refugees to be reunited with close relatives in the UK as they inflicted a series of defeats on Boris Johnson's flagship post-Brexit immigration bill. The Lords overwhelmingly supported an amendment by Lord Dubs, who himself fled the Nazis as a child, to restore potections after the EU transition period ends later this year. Before the vote Lord Dubs had asked: “Surely it is right that when there are young people who have got relatives here that family reunion must be a basic, basic thing that we should support?" The vote was one of a number of defeats home secretary Priti Patel suffered as peers considered the legislation in the Lords, just hours after she pledged to ‘fix’ what she said was a broken asylum system." https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...?ocid=msedgdhp

7th October 2020, 09:48 AM	#103
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 33,893	Boris has called for a response to the post-COVID era like the one after WWII: Quote: “In the depths of the second world war, in 1942, when just about everything had gone wrong, the government sketched out a vision of the postwar new Jerusalem that they wanted to build. And that is what we are doing now – in the teeth of this pandemic.” https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ch-really-mean The first step seems obvious.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

7th October 2020, 09:55 AM	#104
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 33,893	Originally Posted by Mojo The first step seems obvious. So many parallels: Quote: Churchill sought to use his wartime popularity as part of his campaign to keep the Conservatives in power after a wartime coalition had been spent since 1940 with the other political parties, but he faced questions from public opinion surrounding the Conservatives' actions in the 1930s and his ability to handle domestic issues unrelated to warfare. Clement Attlee, who led the Labour Party, was seen as a more competent leader by voters, particularly those who feared a return to the levels of unemployment in the 1930s and sought a strong figurehead in British politics to lead the postwar rebuilding of the country. Opinion polls when the election was called showed strong approval ratings for Churchill, but Labour had gradually gained support for months prior to the war's conclusion.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

7th October 2020, 10:44 AM	#105
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Pither 12/20 Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 32,816	Boris says it should be done by private enterprise and not state lead though. So no comparison with post ww2 at all.

8th October 2020, 08:18 AM	#106
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 33,893	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Boris says it should be done by private enterprise and not state lead though. As I said, the first step is obvious.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

8th October 2020, 09:24 AM	#107
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,866	https://www.theguardian.com/politics...he-lobbied-for Sleaze. Good old-fashioned Conservative behaviour!
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

8th October 2020, 01:41 PM	#108
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 33,893	It’ll be OK, we’ll all be able to retrain as cinema projectionists, lock-keepers, or boxers. Boxer or lock-keeper? Government careers quiz scorned by users Quote: A government jobs quiz aimed at identifying potential new areas of work provides a string of unhelpful career suggestions including lock-keeping and boxing as well as currently precarious posts including airline pilot and cinema projectionist, users have complained.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

8th October 2020, 02:06 PM	#109
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Pither 12/20 Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 32,816	Imagine how it would be now if Ed Milliband had won the election in 2015. A properly funded NHS with nurses and doctors who aren't demoralised, a public sector able to deal with the pandemic and stability instead of chaos and the disaster plus, no Brexit. But there was a picture of him eating a bacon sandwich so obviously he wasn't fit to be Prime Minister.

8th October 2020, 02:22 PM	#110
sphenisc Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,435	Originally Posted by Mojo It’ll be OK, we’ll all be able to retrain as cinema projectionists, lock-keepers, or boxers. Boxer or lock-keeper? Government careers quiz scorned by users Thought we were all supposed to be digging foundations for offshore wind farms?
sphenisc Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,435	__________________ "The cure for everything is salt water - tears, sweat or the sea." Isak Dinesen

10th October 2020, 07:14 AM	#111
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Administrator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 48,856	It may be the usual nostalgia effect, but I do not recall the UK having such a corrupt and incompetent government in my lifetime as we have now. While I may have disagreed (violently in some cases) with the policies, at least the people in the Cabinet were generally able to do their jobs, and with at least some semblance of doing things for the public good rather than lining the pockets of their friends.
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20

10th October 2020, 09:37 AM	#112
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 8,019	I honestly don't think it's just nostalgia.
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 8,019	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills

10th October 2020, 10:36 AM	#113
Carrot Flower King Muse Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Northumberland, UK Posts: 922	There's been the odd numpty or eejit in most cabinets during my life time (I'm in my early 60s), but this bunch aren't even sensible or competent enough to make it as numpties or eejits, well off into couldn't find the brewery for the drunken entertainment category. Definitely NOT nostalgia.

10th October 2020, 03:21 PM	#114
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Pither 12/20 Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 32,816	No 10 press secretary Allegra Stratton is married to the Spectator political editor who works with the commissioning editor married to Dominic Cummings adviser to Boris Johnson. The Spectator is part of Press Holdings: chairman Andrew Neil & owned by Barclay Bros.

11th October 2020, 02:45 AM	#115
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 8,019	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop No 10 press secretary Allegra Stratton is married to the Spectator political editor who works with the commissioning editor married to Dominic Cummings adviser to Boris Johnson. The Spectator is part of Press Holdings: chairman Andrew Neil & owned by Barclay Bros. Here in Whitehall we have a lucrative contract to hand out, so hold on to your sears as it's time to spin "The Wheel of Nepotisim"!
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 8,019	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills