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Tags joe biden , Kamala Harris , nancy pelosi

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Old 31st October 2020, 02:41 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
True but it’s an antiquated qualification. Only 1 of them served during a war that wasn’t fought on horseback.
Still not sure why it isn't good experience. Generally speaking, (opportunistic pun) Generals are still a link in the chain. They give orders and they obey orders. Eisenhower was made CINC Allied Forces Europe because he was organized and was diplomatic, not because he was a fighter. That served him well. I give you that Patton, MacArthur, or Montgomery would have made terrible heads of State, but Ike, Marshall, Bradley seem to understand there is more to being a leader than just giving orders.
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Old 31st October 2020, 02:43 PM   #82
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Although there has been a wide range of quality in past presidents, and it doesn't seem to directly correlate with prior careers, I'm comfortable crossing "reality TV star" off the list of jobs a president could reasonably have had before office. We were better off with ex-prostitutes like Fillmore and Hayes.
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Old 31st October 2020, 02:49 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Still not sure why it isn't good experience. Generally speaking, (opportunistic pun) Generals are still a link in the chain. They give orders and they obey orders. Eisenhower was made CINC Allied Forces Europe because he was organized and was diplomatic, not because he was a fighter. That served him well. I give you that Patton, MacArthur, or Montgomery both would have made terrible heads of State, but Ike, Marshall, Bradley seem to understand there is more to being a leader than just giving orders.
It's good experience, it's just not government experience which I think a POTUS needs. You don't start at the top. I doubt Lt. Eisenhower would have made the same decisions as CINC Allied Forces Europe as Gen. Eisenhower did. Experience made the difference.
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Old 31st October 2020, 03:29 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
It's good experience, it's just not government experience which I think a POTUS needs. You don't start at the top. I doubt Lt. Eisenhower would have made the same decisions as CINC Allied Forces Europe as Gen. Eisenhower did. Experience made the difference.
Maybe, but I don't view it as disqualifying.

But it doesn't seem to me that many ex-generals are much interested in politics. The last one I can remember running was Eisenhower. MacArthur acted like a candidate, but never actually ran. Maybe someone I don't recall ran since then, but I don't recall anyone. People pushed Colin Powell to run, but he didn't.
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Old 31st October 2020, 03:36 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Maybe, but I don't view it as disqualifying.

But it doesn't seem to me that many ex-generals are much interested in politics. The last one I can remember running was Eisenhower. MacArthur acted like a candidate, but never actually ran. Maybe someone I don't recall ran since then, but I don't recall anyone. People pushed Colin Powell to run, but he didn't.
General Wesley Clark ran in 2004.
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Old 31st October 2020, 03:45 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Maybe, but I don't view it as disqualifying.

But it doesn't seem to me that many ex-generals are much interested in politics. The last one I can remember running was Eisenhower. MacArthur acted like a candidate, but never actually ran. Maybe someone I don't recall ran since then, but I don't recall anyone. People pushed Colin Powell to run, but he didn't.
I don't believe anyone has claimed it as being disqualifying.
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Old 31st October 2020, 05:58 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Still not sure why it isn't good experience. Generally speaking, (opportunistic pun) Generals are still a link in the chain. They give orders and they obey orders. Eisenhower was made CINC Allied Forces Europe because he was organized and was diplomatic, not because he was a fighter. That served him well. I give you that Patton, MacArthur, or Montgomery would have made terrible heads of State, but Ike, Marshall, Bradley seem to understand there is more to being a leader than just giving orders.
I think a hypothetical general could be a good president, but Iím not sure that being a general is a good work experience for the role necessarily. They live in a giant bureaucratic bubble where the government attends to their daily needs. They have no experience in what itís like to be an American.
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Old 31st October 2020, 06:20 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Huh? You can be older than your uncle. How does it work then?
My wife was older than her uncle. "Was", because he's already dead.
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Old 31st October 2020, 07:02 PM   #89
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The baby boom was not a generation, per se. As indicated below, it’s a descriptive term for a particular demographic.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg E9D240B6-77CE-4130-AF40-59C23937A1FE.jpg (60.1 KB, 12 views)
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Old 31st October 2020, 07:12 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
I think a hypothetical general could be a good president, but I’m not sure that being a general is a good work experience for the role necessarily. They live in a giant bureaucratic bubble where the government attends to their daily needs. They have no experience in what it’s like to be an American.
Is that highlighted line some kind of sarcasm?

I agree that someone who went to West Point, Annapolis or any other military academy and had a career in the military hasn't had a typical life experience, but to go so far as to say they have no experience of what it's like to be an American is ridiculous and frankly insulting.

Now, I firmly believe the United States military is a bloated institution and far too many Generals and Colonels retire from the military to work for the military industrial complex. That said, most of these people that I know in the military have a great love of this country. Most are very principled.
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Old 31st October 2020, 07:14 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
General Wesley Clark ran in 2004.
You're right. Thanks.
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Old 31st October 2020, 07:20 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Yeah, but most of those were old-timey presidents. Eisenhower was the most recent, right? And that was quite a while ago.


eta: I look forward the wrangle on the exact definitions of "a while" and "quite a while".
Ike was the last. The rest were in the 19th and 18th centuries
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Old 31st October 2020, 07:46 PM   #93
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Okay, last time:

Tragic Monkey: "I go with the definition of Boomers that means post WW2 babies. Literally the baby boom from returning soldiers." (there's no wiggle room there! That's your definition. You even threw in a "literally")

Me: He was born in 1942.

Tragic Monkey: Yeah, well he's still a Boomer because 1942 is closer than 1964 (huh?), and what about the siblings and the uncles and champagne and Jello??? Huh? Didn't think about that, did you smartypants!!??!?!

Me: Jelly!
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Old 31st October 2020, 08:22 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Okay, last time:

Tragic Monkey: "I go with the definition of Boomers that means post WW2 babies. Literally the baby boom from returning soldiers." (there's no wiggle room there! That's your definition. You even threw in a "literally")

Me: He was born in 1942.

Tragic Monkey: Yeah, well he's still a Boomer because 1942 is closer than 1964 (huh?), and what about the siblings and the uncles and champagne and Jello??? Huh? Didn't think about that, did you smartypants!!??!?!

Me: Jelly!
Are you wanting a cookie because you knew Biden's exact year of birth and I didn't? Here is your cookie. I still consider that, for all useful categorization purposes, Biden's a Boomer. Because he shares more with that age cohort than he does with the preceding bunch. It's an opinion about a fuzzy social science meme, not a scientific or legal fact that can be proven or disproven. Biden is close enough to a Boomer that I see no point in excessive insistence that he is not. I really wonder why this seems to put you into such a stir.
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Old 31st October 2020, 08:44 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Are you wanting a cookie because you knew Biden's exact year of birth and I didn't? Here is your cookie. I still consider that, for all useful categorization purposes, Biden's a Boomer. Because he shares more with that age cohort than he does with the preceding bunch. It's an opinion about a fuzzy social science meme, not a scientific or legal fact that can be proven or disproven. Biden is close enough to a Boomer that I see no point in excessive insistence that he is not. I really wonder why this seems to put you into such a stir.
I don't want a cookie, but I find the whole "yeah, but really he is a Boomer" thing to be just weird.

I don't understand why people do this kind of thing, just dig into position that directly contradicts a previous position.

I don't know what happened to "Oh yeah, I didn't realize that. Thanks."
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 31st October 2020, 08:48 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I don't want a cookie, but I find the whole "yeah, but really he is a Boomer" thing to be just weird.

I don't understand why people do this kind of thing, just dig into position that directly contradicts a previous position.

I don't know what happened to "Oh yeah, I didn't realize that. Thanks."
Well, thanks for pointing out Biden's year of birth was during, and not after, WWII. But I still consider him to be a Boomer anyway, for the reasons I've stated several times above. So if you're demanding I agree with you that will simply not happen.
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Old 31st October 2020, 09:40 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Well, thanks for pointing out Biden's year of birth was during, and not after, WWII. But I still consider him to be a Boomer anyway, for the reasons I've stated several times above. So if you're demanding I agree with you that will simply not happen.
Ok Boomer
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 31st October 2020, 10:55 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Is that highlighted line some kind of sarcasm?

I agree that someone who went to West Point, Annapolis or any other military academy and had a career in the military hasn't had a typical life experience, but to go so far as to say they have no experience of what it's like to be an American is ridiculous and frankly insulting.

Now, I firmly believe the United States military is a bloated institution and far too many Generals and Colonels retire from the military to work for the military industrial complex. That said, most of these people that I know in the military have a great love of this country. Most are very principled.
And all thatís fine. But they live in military communities and command military personnel that live under different laws. The government provides them food, shelter, and healthcare. They go to different military only schools. They have their own news papers and TV networks. Their own banks and insurance companies. They get a different retirement package. They disappear from their families for months at a time to go train or work overseas. They speak in acronyms.

Sorry to insult you. Iím a veteran if that makes you feel any better. Itís not that theyíre not patriots or principled, itís that they live in a separate world. They donít understand what average Americans have to deal with in life because theyíre not living the same way. Which is the point, how can a general relate to the average American or even understand what problems they face? Theyíve never been out of their bubble.
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Old 1st November 2020, 12:15 AM   #99
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Wrapping up this thread sidetrack with a bow, Donald Trump, born in 1946, actually is a boomer.
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Old 1st November 2020, 05:49 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
Which is the point, how can a general relate to the average American or even understand what problems they face? Theyíve never been out of their bubble.
In this case, probably no POTUS ever qualified. Politicians and billionaries live in their own bubbles.
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Old 1st November 2020, 02:29 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Mader Levap View Post
In this case, probably no POTUS ever qualified. Politicians and billionaries live in their own bubbles.
Iím not going to defend billionaire presidents. Especially those who are born into it. Their life experience isnít in the same universe as ours. Certainly a good example of how people who live in a bubble govern poorly. Maybe we shouldnít elect those.

But I do think politician is the best background for a politician.
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Old 1st November 2020, 02:39 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
But I do think politician is the best background for a politician.
Politicians are best for politician job, sure, but that does not change fact they have their own bubble.
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Old 1st November 2020, 02:45 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Mader Levap View Post
Politicians are best for politician job, sure, but that does not change fact they have their own bubble.
I donít think thatís true until the highest levels of government. Most build their careers at a local level for years.
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Old 1st November 2020, 03:09 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
I’m not going to defend billionaire presidents. Especially those who are born into it. Their life experience isn’t in the same universe as ours. Certainly a good example of how people who live in a bubble govern poorly. Maybe we shouldn’t elect those.
....
Presidents are not typically from rich families. Obama, Bill Clinton, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson and farther back were working/lower-middle class at best. Nixon was bitter all his life that he was admitted to Harvard but couldn't afford to go. LBJ worked construction to get through teachers college. They are characterized by a burning ambition to get ahead. The Bushes were tasteful old money, but far from billionaires, and they also held public service positions for generations. Part of Trump's con is that he is a billionaire (questionable), and that a "successful" businessman, which he is not, could run government as well. Even real billionaires like Jeff Bezos and Michael Bloomberg earned their money; they weren't born into it.
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Old 1st November 2020, 03:12 PM   #105
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Trump was such a successful businessman he went bankrupt running a casino.

People think that's easy to do, but IT'S NOT EASY.
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Old 1st November 2020, 03:17 PM   #106
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To be honest, I don't care. As long as Biden wins, he can sit as president for two months and then let Harris take over for all I care. Give the USA its first female president, to boot. Granted, she is a person of colour who doesn't fit neatly into a box as she's got dark skin, but isn't African-American, instead hailing from Indian and Jamaican descent, and the trumpkins have already shown that this frustrates them, so she might lead to more polarisation.

But again, as long as Trump doesn't get four (or more) years, a honey badger could win the election for all I care.
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Old 1st November 2020, 03:24 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
...
Sorry to insult you. Iím a veteran if that makes you feel any better. Itís not that theyíre not patriots or principled, itís that they live in a separate world. They donít understand what average Americans have to deal with in life because theyíre not living the same way. Which is the point, how can a general relate to the average American or even understand what problems they face? Theyíve never been out of their bubble.
Can't find a link, but I recall that when Gen. Petraeus took over the CIA, he offended some people by expecting his subordinates to serve him like junior troops did when he was a four-star general. Military experience doesn't always translate to a civilian job.
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Old 1st November 2020, 03:26 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Foggy of the Fogbow View Post
Trump was such a successful businessman he went bankrupt running a casino.

People think that's easy to do, but IT'S NOT EASY.
His biggest mistake was that he was running FOUR casinos. They were taking business from each other in a finite market. If he had focused on one he would have cleaned up.
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Old 1st November 2020, 03:34 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
To be honest, I don't care. As long as Biden wins, he can sit as president for two months and then let Harris take over for all I care. Give the USA its first female president, to boot. Granted, she is a person of colour who doesn't fit neatly into a box as she's got dark skin, but isn't African-American, instead hailing from Indian and Jamaican descent, and the trumpkins have already shown that this frustrates them, so she might lead to more polarisation.

But again, as long as Trump doesn't get four (or more) years, a honey badger could win the election for all I care.
Where do you think the people of color in Jamaica came from? Her ancestors may not have been enslaved in Africa and sold to plantation owners in Georgia but is there really reason to deny that her heritage is similar?
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Old 1st November 2020, 03:36 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
His biggest mistake was that he was running FOUR casinos. They were taking business from each other in a finite market. If he had focused on one he would have cleaned up.
No, his biggest mistake was taking out shirt term financing of 18 to 20 percent.
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Old 1st November 2020, 03:41 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
His biggest mistake was that he was running FOUR casinos. They were taking business from each other in a finite market. If he had focused on one he would have cleaned up.
And he had totally unqualified people from his family in key positions, people who had no idea how the casino business works.

I heard he had a really good university, though.

Until he had to pay $25 million because it was a fraud.
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Old 1st November 2020, 03:54 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
To be honest, I don't care. As long as Biden wins, he can sit as president for two months and then let Harris take over for all I care. Give the USA its first female president, to boot. Granted, she is a person of colour who doesn't fit neatly into a box as she's got dark skin, but isn't African-American, instead hailing from Indian and Jamaican descent, and the trumpkins have already shown that this frustrates them, so she might lead to more polarisation.

But again, as long as Trump doesn't get four (or more) years, a honey badger could win the election for all I care.
Honey badger don't care.
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Old 1st November 2020, 04:17 PM   #113
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I could've sworn I read somewhere that Biden had committed to a single term, to clean up trump's mess before leaving the stage for someone younger and - perhaps - more progressive, but I may have confused it with Pelosi promising this term would be her last in exchange for becoming speaker once again.

I suspect Biden is well aware that just as people were voting against Clinton in 2016, a lot of his votes this time around will be from people voting against trump. Depending on who the republicans pick in 2024, he would face a much steeper challenge then, at age 80+ he'd probably feel he was too old for such a fight.

Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Huh? You can be older than your uncle. How does it work then?
I like to weird people out by pointing out my half-uncle is only 2 months older than me (my grandfather divorced my grandmother and married his secretary, my half-uncle was the result of that union)
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Old 1st November 2020, 04:25 PM   #114
crescent
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Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
I could've sworn I read somewhere that Biden had committed to a single term,
That's going around the net for almost a year now but there's never been any confirmation of it. He's never limited himself to a single term, not publicly at least.

Biden denies speculation of a one-term pledge

The current disinformation campaign seems to be trying to get the story going again, you're not the first person I've seen mention it in the past few days. It's tied to the Trump's campaign strategy of getting people to think that Biden is too old and possibly senile.

Last edited by crescent; 1st November 2020 at 04:30 PM.
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Old 1st November 2020, 05:42 PM   #115
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He never committed one way or the other. But if he runs for re-election against somebody who isn't Trump, he'll lose.

That's why I'm more interested in Harris for 2024. Apparently she was rather progressive in the Senate, which I didn't believe at first because she sounds so conservative now. So why the reversal, and is it rereversible?
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Old 2nd November 2020, 06:45 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
IMHO it is a foregone conclusion that Trump is out January 20th and Biden is in. But for how long? The entire Democratic establishment must be relieved that covid has turned this into a virtual campaign, where Biden's appearances can be more easily monitored and where he doesn't get into the rhetorical weeds.

But afterwards, when it turns time to govern? Pelosi has suddenly been talking about the 25th Amendment:



It seems to me more likely that she's greasing the skids for Biden's likely removal at some point after the election. Obviously I have no real way of telling how much compos Biden has over his mentis. My dad was fine at that age, but you didn't want him driving after late afternoon or anytime he might be tired. Keep in mind, that Biden will be older on inauguration day than Reagan was the day he left the White House.

BTW, I'm not trying to be snide with the grease the skids comment, or conspiracy minded. It does seem quite reasonable to ask the questions about this. I was more thinking that Pelosi's sudden renewed urgency on this matter indicates that maybe Biden's mental state is deteriorating.
Biden has a solitary task to complete before he goes to his reward: Win the election.

After that, I suspect the state of the nation will be such that he is incapacitated or dead within a few months.

President Harris will inherit the odious task of captaining the Titanic after the iceburg has already been struck.
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Old 2nd November 2020, 06:50 AM   #117
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As for me, I sure do hope that Joe Biden has a long and healthy life.

But as long as long as Biden stays alive long enough to beat Trump like a drum and get him out of the White House, then that will be quite successful indeed.
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Old 2nd November 2020, 07:10 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
His biggest mistake was that he was running FOUR casinos. They were taking business from each other in a finite market. If he had focused on one he would have cleaned up.


I've heard that argument, and creating your own competition is pretty stupid, but wouldn't other casino operators have likely filled one or more of those places if he hadn't? If he couldn't even compete against himself and win, he'd have likely tanked no matter what.
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Old 2nd November 2020, 07:44 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
His biggest mistake was that he was running FOUR casinos. They were taking business from each other in a finite market. If he had focused on one he would have cleaned up.
This assumes the market was saturated at the time.
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Old 6th November 2020, 12:58 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Trump will win again and if the Billionaire Cartel tries to steal it there will be hell on earth. Joe Biden will never see a day in office.

That's my opinion. We do remember the "Hillary is done" thread where it was a running joke to chime in and say "is she done yet?". But after she was done, it wasn't any fun anymore, although I posted so many Ben Garrison cartoons and predicted that Trump will win. But parallel reality was unfolding forcefully with claims of "The Russians" having been behind the eerie failure of Media bubble to predict reality. And all this nonsense is now "debunked" - we recently found out who wrote the bogus "Steele dossier", have you noticed? If not, maybe use yandex instead of google to find it out.

I simply don't think that the American people are as stupid as the Billionaire Cartel thinks they are, and that it will be possible to fake a victory of the corrupt, senile Zombie Biden in 2020. We will see.
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