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Tags Coronavirus , vaccine , vaccines

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Old 20th January 2021, 11:51 PM   #481
bruto
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
That doesn't sound like a good way to run a National Health Service.
It isn't, unfortunately. The national part has been bungled so far, and every state has a different way of doing it. So, for example, in Vermont, which like just about everywhere else has had far fewer doses delivered than promised, the government has made it clear they do not want anyone calling in before their group is scheduled, so as not to cause mayhem, and then there's going to be a web site for registering, which may or may not work, and which will likely be inundated the moment the starting gun is fired. And this is a state that is, by comparison with most, probably well run, and leading the nation in many ways. What a ******* mess!
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Old 21st January 2021, 12:07 AM   #482
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
That doesn't sound like a good way to run a National Health Service.
The U.S. doesn't have anything like a National Health Service. The covid vaccines are being delivered by health departments at the city, county and state levels.
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Old 21st January 2021, 01:18 AM   #483
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
That doesn't sound like a good way to run a National Health Service.
At 74.7 vaccinations per 1,000 people, the UK is doing better than the US at 47.5. Both are way ahead of Canada, which as of now is at a paltry 17.3 per 1000. Part of the problem in Canada is simply getting the vaccine.

However, Canada is doing significantly better at handling the pandemic, which ironically may make us lower priority for the vaccine.
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Old 21st January 2021, 05:02 AM   #484
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We've been told, don't call your doctor, wait to be called. This seems very sensible. If I haven't been called by the time the media say my age group should be called, I can always contact them then.

I do think there could be an issue about people not registered with a GP and they're going to have to think about how to deal with that.
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Old 21st January 2021, 05:09 AM   #485
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I can’t imagine that number is going to turn out to be a significant proportion of the population though.
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Old 21st January 2021, 05:11 AM   #486
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The U.S. doesn't have anything like a National Health Service. The covid vaccines are being delivered by health departments at the city, county and state levels.

Yes, that was rather the point. This seems to be yet another way in which scary socialist medicine is going to work better than the US system.
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Old 21st January 2021, 06:37 AM   #487
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Old 21st January 2021, 09:57 AM   #488
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Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
At 74.7 vaccinations per 1,000 people, the UK is doing better than the US at 47.5. Both are way ahead of Canada, which as of now is at a paltry 17.3 per 1000. Part of the problem in Canada is simply getting the vaccine.
And its going to get worse... Pfizer is actually halting shipments to Canada next week. (Before, they were just going to cut back on the number of doses sent.)

It will just be a temporary stoppage however... once they get their improved production line in action, they will (hopefully) increase the number of doses delivered.
Quote:
However, Canada is doing significantly better at handling the pandemic, which ironically may make us lower priority for the vaccine.
Excuse me while I go take off my mask and cough on random people.
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Old 21st January 2021, 12:04 PM   #489
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In our state, the state computer site that says "Find a Vaccination Site Here" merely redirects the user to county health departments, pharmacies, and supermarkets.

Our county health department website crashes whenever a new round of vaccines becomes available. The pharmacies tell us "We're still waiting on an allotment of vaccines, check back" (and some put us on waiting lists). The supermarkets are the same. Our personal GP site says "Don't ask about Covid-19 vaccines. We are not in line to be issued the vaccine." Our hospital sites crash or put us into maddening loops--"You need to indicate your gender." You go back and do it. Then two pages later, "You need to indicate your gender." And back and forth. It is maddening. I have a friend who recently retired from the IT department of a large organization, and he observed, "It's like they hired people to build these sites who never programmed anything past a Commodore 64."
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Old 21st January 2021, 12:19 PM   #490
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Yes, that was rather the point. This seems to be yet another way in which scary socialist medicine is going to work better than the US system.
Its more the logistics of a third of a billion people spread out over a Continent and creating a way to monitor and make sure everyone is getting dosed. Quite a few people I spoke with had no idea what they were supposed to be doing. The State wants you to tell them, for instance, if you are in the more expedient need category (elderly, diabetic, obese, occupational needs, smoker, etc). The NJ website says 'register and we'll let you know'. The actual vaccination sites say 'please come tell us and we'll line you up'
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Old 21st January 2021, 01:22 PM   #491
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Quote:
I can’t imagine that number is going to turn out to be a significant proportion of the population though.

I don't honestly know. I have read suggestions that it's more people than one might imagine, for various reasons.
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Old 21st January 2021, 03:27 PM   #492
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Originally Posted by Spektator View Post
In our state, the state computer site that says "Find a Vaccination Site Here" merely redirects the user to county health departments, pharmacies, and supermarkets.

Our county health department website crashes whenever a new round of vaccines becomes available. The pharmacies tell us "We're still waiting on an allotment of vaccines, check back" (and some put us on waiting lists). The supermarkets are the same. Our personal GP site says "Don't ask about Covid-19 vaccines. We are not in line to be issued the vaccine." Our hospital sites crash or put us into maddening loops--"You need to indicate your gender." You go back and do it. Then two pages later, "You need to indicate your gender." And back and forth. It is maddening. I have a friend who recently retired from the IT department of a large organization, and he observed, "It's like they hired people to build these sites who never programmed anything past a Commodore 64."
WA State is similar. I just went to site after site after site and each one you have to find the 'continue' or whatever version they use and sometimes it's absolutely not clear.

After going to sites and dates all morning I finally got an appointment for April 2nd. No other places are scheduling that far out. I'm hoping to find something sooner. Twice I got messages, 'sorry, someone else just took that spot'.

My doctor's office keeps sending me apologies "they are trying to fix it". But they did give me some Ambien (sleeping pill) at my request.

I need to stop trying. Yesterday was so positive, now I'm drained. I'm going to go back to just waiting until the vaccine supply picks up.
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Old 22nd January 2021, 01:34 AM   #493
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It pays to have insomnia sometimes (I don't have the Ambien yet). I just checked back with the Kaiser site (my HMO) and they had a dozen new openings. I got an appointment for the vaccine a week from Sat. I imagine by 7 or 8 am the appointments will all be gone. I'll be able to cancel the April appointment.

I can't tell you what a relief it is to have a vaccine appointment within a reasonable time. I was really worried I could easily die from this virus. Some people have no clue how dangerous this pathogen is. I do know.
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Old 22nd January 2021, 08:03 AM   #494
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It pays to have insomnia sometimes (I don't have the Ambien yet). I just checked back with the Kaiser site (my HMO) and they had a dozen new openings. I got an appointment for the vaccine a week from Sat. I imagine by 7 or 8 am the appointments will all be gone. I'll be able to cancel the April appointment.

I can't tell you what a relief it is to have a vaccine appointment within a reasonable time. I was really worried I could easily die from this virus. Some people have no clue how dangerous this pathogen is. I do know.
Even with "light" symptoms it can play havoc with body. (I caught it around 1st January, got off lightly) It caused various and weird sensations.
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Old 22nd January 2021, 08:58 AM   #495
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Yes, that was rather the point. This seems to be yet another way in which scary socialist medicine is going to work better than the US system.
Canada "Socialized" health care system: .11 vaccines per 1 million

United States "Capitalist" health care system: .28 vaccines per 1 million

So simply having "socialist health care" is not going to necessarily be better than what the U.S. has. (Granted, Canada has had vaccine supply issues, but we've also done rather dumb things... sitting on vaccine doses over the holidays, etc.)
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Old 22nd January 2021, 09:32 AM   #496
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I am in the JCVI group 2 of vaccine priorities, "all those 80 years of age and over and frontline health and social care workers" and go for my first dose on Sunday after work.
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Old 22nd January 2021, 09:35 AM   #497
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
We've been told, don't call your doctor, wait to be called. This seems very sensible. If I haven't been called by the time the media say my age group should be called, I can always contact them then.

I do think there could be an issue about people not registered with a GP and they're going to have to think about how to deal with that.
My father, who is JCVI group 2 like me, has just received his second GP letter to advise him to wait for his appointment letter.

I know lots of NHS and care people who have had their first does, but only a couple of elderly people, who are 90 plus year olds, who have had theirs.
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Old 22nd January 2021, 09:47 AM   #498
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I know two 80 year olds, both with health issues, who have had their first jab.
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Old 22nd January 2021, 09:52 AM   #499
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I managed to get my wife an appointment for January 27 when the county site opened for reservations at about 1 PM. It took about five minutes--had to fill out name, address, medical history, insurance information, etc--and I immediately tried to register myself, but by that time all 6000 slots had been taken. I was told to try next week.

On the other hand, we're told that the second shot is booked when you get the first, so maybe that will help.
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Old 22nd January 2021, 10:29 AM   #500
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One of my cousins had to be moved to a care home because her husband, who was her carer, died quite suddenly just before Christmas. I was worried about her because we all know about the history of covid in care homes, but what it actually did was put her up the priority list for vaccination and she had her first injection within days of entering the home.

When we get together for Zoom Church on Sundays the cheery call of "Has anyone been vaccinated yet?" has started to be answered in the affirmative by one or two of the crumblies contingent.
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Old 22nd January 2021, 03:30 PM   #501
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It pays to have insomnia sometimes (I don't have the Ambien yet). I just checked back with the Kaiser site (my HMO) and they had a dozen new openings. I got an appointment for the vaccine a week from Sat. I imagine by 7 or 8 am the appointments will all be gone. I'll be able to cancel the April appointment.

I can't tell you what a relief it is to have a vaccine appointment within a reasonable time. I was really worried I could easily die from this virus. Some people have no clue how dangerous this pathogen is. I do know.
Kaiser here in So. California just sent a mailing. They have given 170,000 doses to their 1.5M members. Those were front line workers, and care facility residents. They are next going for 'those over 75",but don't have any vaccine. Next will be over 65s. But "Don't call us, we'll call you". I guess they will sort by risk factors? I suspect they will start each age group with those highest at risk. At 67 and having nearly all risk factors except living with others, once the age gets lowered to 65, perhaps they will jump me to the top of the list ahead of healthier 75 +?

But I do consider myself lower risk because I live alone. Nobody catches it out doors (gun range) or grocery stores.
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Old 22nd January 2021, 03:41 PM   #502
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People do catch it in grocery stores. There have been several grocery store clusters here. One supermarket currently has about 60 staff sick. If you're going into any shop get a good mask (preferable a respirator mask) and spend as little time inside as possible.
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Old 22nd January 2021, 04:51 PM   #503
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I (nurse in a senior citizens' residence), along with all residents and staff (ca. 150 people, excepting only a handful of opt-outs), got my first shot 11 days ago, so by now I have some cause for the comfortable idea that I am pretty likely immune already. It is also a great relieve that many of our care recipients should be immune by now.

Coinciding the date of the first shot came the good news that the last of our less than ten cases had resolved (albeit only after two had died).

Some semblance of normalcy has thus returned - but us nurses still wear FFP2 masks, we test everybody twice a week, and visits are still restricted in number and duration with visitors having to wear PPE.

Because none of us can be 100% sure of their immunization status, with even the Pfizer/BioNTech vax being less than 100% effective.

I do not know the date for the second shot yet, but expect it to come close to the 3 weeks minimum wait time after the first.

Here in Germany, nursing homes and ICUs have absolute priority. Districts (counties) have set up vaccination sites, but in many places, they don't actually start vaxxing before February 10th or so, due to supply shortages. So while people older than 80 years were supposed to be in cohort 1 along with the nursing home residents, reality is that those 80+ folks not in a home still have to wait.

Since my shot was organized entirely by my company (my boss came in the office a few days before with the forms we needed to sign, I signed, and the only other thing I had to do was to show up in time for the shot), I have not informed myself how ordinary people would schedule their shots, and how that goes so far.
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Old 22nd January 2021, 05:32 PM   #504
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I don't think you should assume anything about your immune status until a few weeks after your second dose. Not enough is known about the effect of a single dose.

Sure, there are always some individuals who don't mount an effective immune response even after to doses properly given of anything, but I think at some point you have to relax about it.
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Old 22nd January 2021, 11:49 PM   #505
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I posted this last Saturday (Japan time), and it's Saturday afternoon again so I thought I'd check how much process has been made in the last week.
Latest updates from:

The Bloomberg tracker

Quote:
The biggest vaccination campaign in history has begun. More than 60.3 million doses in 55 countries have been administered, according to data collected by Bloomberg. The latest rate was roughly 2.95 million doses a day, on average.
For comparison, a week ago 37.9 million doses had been administered in 49 countries. An increase of 22.4 million in the last 7 days.

Quote:
Vaccinations in the U.S. began Dec. 14 with health-care workers, and so far 19.8 million shots have been given, according to a state-by-state tally by Bloomberg and data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. In the last week, an average of 982,739 doses per day were administered.
For comparison, a week ago 13 million shots had been given and the rate was 844,387 doses per day.

The Our World in Data tracker
They have added some new graphs, including if you scroll down far enough, how many people have been completely vaccinated (i.e., received their second dose in the case of a 2-dose regimen). Israel remains in the lead with 38.83 doses administered per 100 people so far. They also note that 28.44% of the population have received at least one dose and 10.39% have received both doses.

It appears to have started showing up in this data (possibly):

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...ountry/israel/

The number daily new infections according to the 7-day moving average has been falling for about the last week. However, there is not yet a clear downward trend in deaths. But new infections is a leading indicator for deaths, so I would expect that to begin falling before the deaths do.
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Old 23rd January 2021, 02:36 PM   #506
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Removed to main Covid thread.
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Old 23rd January 2021, 03:42 PM   #507
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
I don't think you should assume anything about your immune status until a few weeks after your second dose. Not enough is known about the effect of a single dose.
Oh I am not assuming I am immune 12 days after the first shot , I called the reality there's a good chance that I am immune now a "comfortable idea". My actions are premised on the cautious assumption that there's a significant risk I am not yet immune, however, the "comfortable idea"...

Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Sure, there are always some individuals who don't mount an effective immune response even after to doses properly given of anything, but I think at some point you have to relax about it.
...allows me to relax about it.
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Old 23rd January 2021, 06:23 PM   #508
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Oh I am not assuming I am immune 12 days after the first shot , I called the reality there's a good chance that I am immune now a "comfortable idea". My actions are premised on the cautious assumption that there's a significant risk I am not yet immune, however, the "comfortable idea"...

...allows me to relax about it.

Yes, I see what you mean. Still careful, but the light is visible at the end of the tunnel.
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Old 24th January 2021, 02:24 PM   #509
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Yes, I see what you mean. Still careful, but the light is visible at the end of the tunnel.
Well, hopefully. With new mutations and delays in vaccine deliveries, it could still be an oncoming train ...

Hans
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Old 24th January 2021, 05:12 PM   #510
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Nah, even if these are real concerns it just makes the light a bit further away.
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Old 25th January 2021, 01:45 PM   #511
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Moderna develops new vaccine to tackle mutant Covid strain (FinancialTimes, Jan. 25, 2021)
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Old 25th January 2021, 02:28 PM   #512
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Liz Wolfe at Reason "To make matters worse, state departments of health are struggling to tell how often it's happening or how many precious doses have been squandered. Although many states mandate reporting of vaccine waste, providers have little incentive to comply: If New York's system is any indication, they might end up fined or under investigation."

This article discusses both discarded doses and the lack of keeping track of them. Offhand, I don't have any suggestions.
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Old 26th January 2021, 10:17 AM   #513
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Some good and bad news...

First the bad:

From: Global Television Network (Canada)
Drugmaker Merck & Co said on Monday it would stop the development of its two COVID-19 vaccines and focus pandemic research on treatments...In early trials, both vaccines generated immune responses that were inferior to those seen in people who had recovered from COVID-19 as well as those reported for other COVID-19 vaccines.

Unfortunate, because the more vaccine options, the better.

On the other hand:

From: Marketwatch
The first single-dose COVID-19 vaccine could get emergency approval in as little two weeks, Dr. Anthony Fauci suggested late Friday. “I would be surprised if it was any more than two weeks from now that the data will be analyzed and decisions would be made” about the vaccine being developed by Johnson & Johnson.

Good sign... not only is the J&J vaccine single-shot, but it also doesn't have the same cold storage requirements.
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Old Yesterday, 04:35 AM   #514
Rolfe
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It was never going to be the case that all the vaccine candidates were going to work acceptably well. Some were always going to be less good and not worth pursuing in the light of other better products.

I take it someone somewhere has noted that the infamous "The Astra-Zeneca vaccine only has 8% efficacy in the over-65s was some idiot not reading a report carefully enough. In fact the statement was that since only 8% of the study participants were over 65 more data were needed to confirm the efficacy in this group (which appears to be high, but on the basis of a low number of test subejcts).
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Old Yesterday, 09:24 AM   #515
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In Philadelphia, they gave the responsibility for distributing the vaccine to college students. Not a good idea:

Quote:
Philadelphia is home to some of the most venerated medical institutions in the country. Yet when it came time to set up the city’s first and largest coronavirus mass vaccination site, officials turned to the start-up Philly Fighting COVID, a self-described “group of college kids” with minimal health-care experience.

Seniors were left in tears after finding that appointments they’d made through a bungled sign-up form wouldn’t be honored. The group switched to a for-profit model without publicizing the change and added a privacy policy that would allow it to sell users’ personal data. One volunteer alleged that the 22-year-old CEO had pocketed vaccine doses. Another described a “free-for-all” where unsupervised 18- and 19-year-olds vaccinated one another and posed for photos.
All I needed to read there was 22-year-old CEO. Did he have an app?
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Old Yesterday, 10:02 AM   #516
zooterkin
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
It was never going to be the case that all the vaccine candidates were going to work acceptably well. Some were always going to be less good and not worth pursuing in the light of other better products.
I'm pretty sure I heard a while back that there were at least around 100 potential vaccines under development world-wide.

ETA: This table shows 9 approved and 56 under development. There may be more, or perhaps some have fallen by the wayside.
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Old Yesterday, 12:41 PM   #517
Segnosaur
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
It was never going to be the case that all the vaccine candidates were going to work acceptably well. Some were always going to be less good and not worth pursuing in the light of other better products.
I know its not surprising that some vaccine candidates just didn't pan out.

But, we've got a situation where we have to vaccinate billions of people, and hopefully as quickly as possible, for a virus that may be mutating. The more production capacity and/vaccine options the better. And Merck was one of the better known drug companies.

(I'm not necessarily blaming Merck... I'm just saying its unfortunate their stuff didn't work well enough.)
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