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Old 17th June 2017, 11:24 PM   #1
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Traditional Hawaiian canoe completes voyage around the world.

In a constant stream of doom and gloom, it's just great to see some good and interesting news. A Traditional Hawaiian Hokule'a vessel, crewed by indigenous Hawaiians, has just returned to Hawaii after a 3 year trip around the world, navigating using only the traditional stars, wind, and ocean swells.

Well done them. That cheers me somewhat this morning.

BBC.
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Old 18th June 2017, 01:08 AM   #2
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Nice story, and well done to the sailors. I have always like stories about circumnavigation. My favourite book when I was a kid was "The Boy Who Sailed Around the World Alone." Also, I had the pleasure of meeting and chatting with the late Sadun Boro who was the first Turk to sail around the world.
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Old 18th June 2017, 02:04 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
In a constant stream of doom and gloom, it's just great to see some good and interesting news. A Traditional Hawaiian Hokule'a vessel, crewed by indigenous Hawaiians, has just returned to Hawaii after a 3 year trip around the world, navigating using only the traditional stars, wind, and ocean swells.
Good thing they used the traditional stars. Those new stars are way too confusing!
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Old 18th June 2017, 07:34 AM   #4
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Traditional Hawaiian planning, or did they know the earth was round before they left? Did they use the traditional sextant, and the traditional paper charts too?

Either way: big ocean, little boat, little island waaaay out there.
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Old 18th June 2017, 08:03 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
. Those new stars are way too confusing!
Yeah, with their tattoos, piercings, non-binary gendering and hippetty-hoppetty music!
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Old 18th June 2017, 09:36 AM   #6
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And not a single mutiny or catastrophic loss of life. Take that, Magellan!
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Old 18th June 2017, 10:14 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
And not a single mutiny or catastrophic loss of life. Take that, Magellan!
Probably because they avoided becoming involved in the internal politics of the natives they encountered on their travels.

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Old 18th June 2017, 07:20 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Traditional Hawaiian planning, or did they know the earth was round before they left? Did they use the traditional sextant, and the traditional paper charts too?

Either way: big ocean, little boat, little island waaaay out there.
I wouldn't knock the achievements too much, remember that these guys' ancestors had colonised virtually every habitable island in the largest ocean on the planet, and quite likely established trade with the people in South America, all before Europeans had managed to get not much further out of the Mediterranean than Britannia.
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Old 18th June 2017, 09:16 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Traditional Hawaiian planning, or did they know the earth was round before they left? Did they use the traditional sextant, and the traditional paper charts too?

Either way: big ocean, little boat, little island waaaay out there.
My understanding is no.
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Old 18th June 2017, 09:23 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I wouldn't knock the achievements too much, remember that these guys' ancestors had colonised virtually every habitable island in the largest ocean on the planet, and quite likely established trade with the people in South America, all before Europeans had managed to get not much further out of the Mediterranean than Britannia.
Thank you.
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Old 18th June 2017, 11:32 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
...... Did they use the traditional sextant, and the traditional paper charts too?........
No. No charts. No navigational devices. They used stars, and knowledge of the swell and winds as it clearly says in the text I linked to.

This is a monumental achievement. It's fair enough that people should mock my poor grammar in the OP, but I really don't understand why the achievement itself is being treated here with a bit of a shoulder shrug.
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Old 19th June 2017, 04:04 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
No. No charts. No navigational devices. They used stars, and knowledge of the swell and winds as it clearly says in the text I linked to.

This is a monumental achievement. It's fair enough that people should mock my poor grammar in the OP, but I really don't understand why the achievement itself is being treated here with a bit of a shoulder shrug.
A 14 year old girl made the trip solo in 2010.
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Old 19th June 2017, 04:34 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
A 14 year old girl made the trip solo in 2010.
But presumably using all mod cons?
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Old 19th June 2017, 01:29 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
A 14 year old girl made the trip solo in 2010.
In a traditional Hawaiian vessel without maps, compass, sextant, GPS?
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Old 19th June 2017, 01:37 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
And not a single mutiny or catastrophic loss of life. Take that, Magellan!
Why does Magellan even get credit? He only made it 2/3 of the way. I've never understood that. It's like saying John Hunt was the first to climb Everest. (Hunt was the leader of Edmund Hillary/Tenzing Norgay expedition.)
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Old 19th June 2017, 03:06 PM   #16
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Traditional vessel? Synthetic sails, synthetic rigging, metal hardware on plywood components abound. Plastic tubs, stainless bowls.... And it seems, telecommunications.

PLUS, knowledge of geography that was given to them by the Europeans.

Nah, the big feat is not the voyage, it's the organization and financing there of. Who ever did that could have kicked our haole asses. But they liked shiney baubles and pork too much to do that.
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Old 19th June 2017, 04:02 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Traditional vessel? Synthetic sails, synthetic rigging, metal hardware on plywood components abound. Plastic tubs, stainless bowls.... And it seems, telecommunications.

PLUS, knowledge of geography that was given to them by the Europeans.

Nah, the big feat is not the voyage, it's the organization and financing there of. Who ever did that could have kicked our haole asses. But they liked shiney baubles and pork too much to do that.

God forbid somebody who is not White European get credit for anything.........


You are just angry because a bunch of Hawaiisns just beat Thor Heyerdahl on his his own game.
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Old 19th June 2017, 05:57 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
God forbid somebody who is not White European get credit for anything.........


You are just angry because a bunch of Hawaiisns just beat Thor Heyerdahl on his his own game.
I they were that awesome, how come we are speaking European instead of Hawaiian?
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Old 19th June 2017, 06:20 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
I they were that awesome, how come we are speaking European instead of Hawaiian?
Because Europeans seem to believe that it is their god given right to take over the entire planet and force everyone else to do things their way at the point of a gun because they are so much more civilized.
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Old 19th June 2017, 08:56 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Because Europeans seem to believe that it is their god given right to take over the entire planet and force everyone else to do things their way at the point of a gun because they are so much more civilized.
Gee, that is pretty good English. Native tongue?
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Old 19th June 2017, 10:13 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
I they were that awesome, how come we are speaking European instead of Hawaiian?

*Checks screen name*

Speak for yourself, haole.

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Old 20th June 2017, 08:42 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Gee, that is pretty good English. Native tongue?
yes, because the English enforced it at gun point and nearly destroyed the native language.

The one invention that allowed Europeans to take over the planet, the gun! That and they were great at spreading diseases to the native populations and wiping them out that way too.
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Old 20th June 2017, 10:50 AM   #23
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And someone outed themselves as a bigot on this page...
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Old 20th June 2017, 10:51 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
I they were that awesome, how come we are speaking European instead of Hawaiian?
Might Makes Right,Eh?
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Old 20th June 2017, 11:32 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Might Makes Right,Eh?
For the last million years, at least. For the last couple hundred, the Might was held by the most efficient society. You know, the peoples with agriculture, wheels, looms,....
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Old 20th June 2017, 11:35 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Hokulele View Post
*Checks screen name*

Speak for yourself, haole.

Non-sequitar. You did ttype that in English, and your location is inland USA.
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Old 20th June 2017, 11:53 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And someone outed themselves as a bigot on this page...
A) I think the term you mean is "Fascist", as in "one who believes his society is superior".

B) What do you meant "outed"? I've ALWAYS shown this attitude.

But back to what should be the topc of this thread, TONs of stuff on their boat was non-traditional. Sails, rigging, paint, foods, the health if the crew? I bet they even had a flush toilet.

But "Some guys sailed around the world with modern conveniences, modern knowledge, but primitive navigation" lacks the SJW impact of "native" and "traditional".

And why didn't they call the Polynesians "People of Asian ancestry"? You know, the broader group who invented gunpowder and guns? Or "Peoples of Eurasion ancestry", the ones who came north form Africa, then spread east and west. No, the real difference is in the societies there of, not the genes or ethnicity . And the ones who made the most technological advances.

But it's good to know that they finally got off that island.
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Old 20th June 2017, 12:01 PM   #28
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Jesus, H.............Is there nothing interesting or out of the usual in this world that doesn't lead to a sneer-fest here?

No-one suggested that this was some sort of inter-ethnic competition. No-one suggested that just because some Polynesians did this, that white people couldn't do it too. No one suggested that this voyage was any sort of political statement. Why the **** do some drongos have to make a political point about absolutely every damn story?
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Old 20th June 2017, 01:33 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Jesus, H.............Is there nothing interesting or out of the usual in this world that doesn't lead to a sneer-fest here?

No-one suggested that this was some sort of inter-ethnic competition. No-one suggested that just because some Polynesians did this, that white people couldn't do it too. No one suggested that this voyage was any sort of political statement. Why the **** do some drongos have to make a political point about absolutely every damn story?
Pearls before swine. Thanks for sharing though, I found it immensely interesting.
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Old 20th June 2017, 01:43 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Jesus, H.............Is there nothing interesting or out of the usual in this world that doesn't lead to a sneer-fest here?

No-one suggested that this was some sort of inter-ethnic competition. No-one suggested that just because some Polynesians did this, that white people couldn't do it too. No one suggested that this voyage was any sort of political statement. Why the **** do some drongos have to make a political point about absolutely every damn story?

To be fair, the Hokule'a has been around for decades, doing similar voyages, and was initially conceived to make a (semi) political point about the loss of culture. When the ship was first built, no one in the state knew how to navigate using anything other than modern methods. They had to bring in someone from Micronesia to first do the navigation for them, and eventually train others.

Even today, Hokule'a sails to advocate for awareness of the oceanic environment, and to encourage people to preserve and propagate various endangered cultural practices.

While I personally agree with these agendas, I do believe they do have political ramifications, and ironically, discussions such as the above were one of the desired results of the original dream.

http://www.hokulea.com/
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Old 20th June 2017, 02:11 PM   #31
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I hope they write a book. Sort of a modern "Kon Tiki". I read that book five or six times when I was a kid....
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Old 20th June 2017, 03:20 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I hope they write a book. Sort of a modern "Kon Tiki". I read that book five or six times when I was a kid....
Once each for that and Slocumb's. Later, Bowditch. I appreciate Navigation.

I do not appreciate the recent glorifications of backwards technology. "Lived in congress with the land" is baloney, they raped the land the best they could. Have you read about the Polynesians extincting themselves at Easter Island? The American natives with 20,000 living in a village with no sewer system, later calling that valley taboo because of cholera? Aztec kings with cloaks made from the feathers of 2,000 hummingbirds? I think I prefer chlorine, Mylar, and a Sextant.
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Old 20th June 2017, 04:01 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
]The American natives with 20,000 living in a village with no sewer system, later calling that valley taboo because of cholera? Aztec kings with cloaks made from the feathers of 2,000 hummingbirds?
Sounds like 19th century Europe.
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Old 20th June 2017, 04:20 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Sounds like 19th century Europe.
Yeah, better to not mention how when the Black Death hit Europe, spread by the fleas of rats due to the unsanitary living conditions, the people's response was to blame witches and go around killing cats (thought to be witches familiars) thus allowing the increase of the rat population and the real cause. (They also blamed the Jews for poisoning the wells, since the Jews lived by the OT hygiene rules which mean they weren't as exposed to rats and thus their fleas.)
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Old 20th June 2017, 10:53 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I hope they write a book. Sort of a modern "Kon Tiki". I read that book five or six times when I was a kid....
Yeah, me too. Some of Heyerdahl's conclusions were completely wrong, but the voyage itself, and the preparations, were intriguing.
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Old 20th June 2017, 11:04 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Once each for that and Slocumb's. Later, Bowditch. I appreciate Navigation.

I do not appreciate the recent glorifications of backwards technology......
Great book. I lent my copy to a friend. He lent it to his son. He lent it to a friend. It seems to be on its own journey around the world, and no-one now knows where it is.

Glorification of backwards technology.... What on earth are you talking about? Can one not wonder at the achievements of people who did extraordinary things with the most basic of equipment and knowledge, without getting into some stupid discussion comparing their society with ours? Is there some paranoid streak in some people, seeing the incredible achievements of others as some sort of challenge to themselves, perhaps?

Imagine taking an axe, a tree trunk, some vines, and some leaves, doing some DIY, and then heading off from your island home over the horizon. You are entirely self-reliant. That is a thing of wonder. If you don't see it, I pity you.
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Old 21st June 2017, 10:16 AM   #37
Dr. Keith
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Glorification of backwards technology.... What on earth are you talking about? Can one not wonder at the achievements of people who did extraordinary things with the most basic of equipment and knowledge, without getting into some stupid discussion comparing their society with ours? Is there some paranoid streak in some people, seeing the incredible achievements of others as some sort of challenge to themselves, perhaps?

Imagine taking an axe, a tree trunk, some vines, and some leaves, doing some DIY, and then heading off from your island home over the horizon. You are entirely self-reliant. That is a thing of wonder. If you don't see it, I pity you.
Yep. My brothers and I still enjoy taking down a tree with a hand saw or axes and then limbing the tree and sectioning it and splitting it for firewood. It is a good workout and useful work. Even if we have a chainsaw with a sharpened chain in the back of the truck for when we've had enough or just running out of time.

And that's orders of magnitude different from what these folks did.
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Old 21st June 2017, 10:26 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Because Europeans seem to believe that it is their god given right to take over the entire planet and force everyone else to do things their way at the point of a gun because they are so much more civilized.


Kamehameha who stole everyone else's land in Hawaii is worshipped as or almost as a deity here. If the Hawaiians had the power they would most certainly do exactly as you ascribed to the Europeans


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Old 21st June 2017, 11:14 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Kamehameha who stole everyone else's land in Hawaii is worshipped as or almost as a deity here. If the Hawaiians had the power they would most certainly do exactly as you ascribed to the Europeans


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That is a valid point.
I don't buy the whole "Indignious (for lack of a better word) people are morally superior to more technically advanced people" nonsense for a minute. The whole Rosseau concept of the "Noble Savage" is pure BS
Although that does not excuse the way that the Europeans treated the "natives". I think that US's treatment of Native Americans is, along with slavery, the two great blots on the US's history.
And it certainly does not excuse casebro's withering contempt for non Whites.
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Old 21st June 2017, 11:17 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Great book. I lent my copy to a friend. He lent it to his son. He lent it to a friend. It seems to be on its own journey around the world, and no-one now knows where it is.

Glorification of backwards technology.... What on earth are you talking about? Can one not wonder at the achievements of people who did extraordinary things with the most basic of equipment and knowledge, without getting into some stupid discussion comparing their society with ours? Is there some paranoid streak in some people, seeing the incredible achievements of others as some sort of challenge to themselves, perhaps?

Imagine taking an axe, a tree trunk, some vines, and some leaves, doing some DIY, and then heading off from your island home over the horizon. You are entirely self-reliant. That is a thing of wonder. If you don't see it, I pity you.
THis, In spades. It is not great trick to navigate across hundreds of miles of ocean with a GPS or even late 18th century tech (after a reiliable method of determining Longititude while underway was developed). To do so by the stars ,sun, and maybe ocean currents requires seamanship of a incredible degree. I suggest reading the Section of James Michener's "Hawaii" dealing with the first human settlement of Hawaii for a good description.
Maybe casebro will next say that any idiot with a color camera is a greater artist then Da Vinci, Rembrandt, or the French Impressionists.....
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