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Tags gun incidents , police incidents , police misconduct charges , shooting incidents

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Old 16th June 2017, 01:30 PM   #641
mgidm86
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http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/16/us/phi...ict/index.html

Quote:
Yanez, a St. Anthony officer, testified he feared for his life because Castile reached for his firearm, despite being instructed not to do.


An audio recording captured Castile telling Yanez he had a gun in the car, and the officer telling Castile not to reach for it. Seconds later, Yanez opened fire.
Not saying he should have shot him or not based on this, but nobody has mentioned this here. And did he actually say "gun in the car" or that he had CCW? Says "gun in the car" here.

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Old 16th June 2017, 01:38 PM   #642
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Ugh. Just ugh.
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Old 16th June 2017, 01:50 PM   #643
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/16/us/phi...ict/index.html

Not saying he should have shot him or not based on this, but nobody has mentioned this here. And did he actually say "gun in the car" or that he had CCW? Says "gun in the car" here.
"Castile is then heard saying, "Sir, I have to tell you, I do have a firearm on me." Before Castile finishes that sentence, Yanez has his hand on his own gun and is pulling it out of the holster."
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/philando...eronimo-yanez/

Remember: he's heard later saying he can't find the gun. So, he's admitting later that he didn't see it; if he did, he'd be able to go right to it.

And in the end: moot. The victim had a legal right to carry the weapon.
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Old 16th June 2017, 02:04 PM   #644
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Originally Posted by bignickel View Post
"Castile is then heard saying, "Sir, I have to tell you, I do have a firearm on me." Before Castile finishes that sentence, Yanez has his hand on his own gun and is pulling it out of the holster."
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/philando...eronimo-yanez/

Remember: he's heard later saying he can't find the gun. So, he's admitting later that he didn't see it; if he did, he'd be able to go right to it.

And in the end: moot. The victim had a legal right to carry the weapon.
The respectful words of a madman bent on cop killing.
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Old 16th June 2017, 02:20 PM   #645
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And keep in mind: policeman isn't in the top 10 most dangerous jobs in this country.

If a logger (not the guy on this forum) is told ""Sir, I have to tell you, I do have a firearm on me," he can't draw a weapon and fire.

If a construction worker is told ""Sir, I have to tell you, I do have a firearm on me," he can't draw a weapon and fire.

And If a taxi driver is told ""Sir, I have to tell you, I do have a firearm on me," he can't draw a weapon and fire.

But the guy with the safer job can... because. Danger.
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Old 16th June 2017, 02:38 PM   #646
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Originally Posted by bignickel View Post
"Castile is then heard saying, "Sir, I have to tell you, I do have a firearm on me." Before Castile finishes that sentence, Yanez has his hand on his own gun and is pulling it out of the holster."
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/philando...eronimo-yanez/
And then, according to audio, he is told not to reach for the gun, at least that is what I read. Again, I'm not saying it's enough for a shooting, just that it's something I did not see reported before. He may have said that and shot him anyways. Maybe he was reaching for the permit and not the gun.

Not a lawyer, but it seems like the audio recording was a big factor in the case.

For the record, I think the cop screwed up big-time, and should be off the streets, minimum, based on his behavior after the shooting alone.
Quote:

Remember: he's heard later saying he can't find the gun. So, he's admitting later that he didn't see it; if he did, he'd be able to go right to it.
I agree he was most likely lying, but he seemed out of control. If I were his defense I'd try to BS my way around that - heat of the moment, things happened so fast...

Quote:
And in the end: moot. The victim had a legal right to carry the weapon.
Having a right to carry doesn't mean you're immune from getting shot if you do something stupid. I know you didn't say that, I'm just pointing out that it isn't automatically moot. Maybe I'm stating the obvious I dunno.

This is all after knowing that he beat the rap, so I'm just guessing as to how that happened. Sounds like the guy shouldn't have been shot and that the cop is a basket case.
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Old 16th June 2017, 02:53 PM   #647
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Originally Posted by Newtons Bit View Post
There's something seriously wrong in this country =\

Agreed. But what is it?

Quote:
bignickel:
And keep in mind: policeman isn't in the top 10 most dangerous jobs in this country.
Problem is they don't always know they are in danger.

Recently a cop in the next town over from mine pulled over a guy with expired registration. The guy made a run for it on foot, the cop gave chase, tackled and arrested him.

A minute later he found out that the guy had just shot and killed someone in a parked car 10 miles away, carjacked a woman's car, evaded police, and was armed.

Had the cop known that would he have reacted differently?

Not disagreeing necessarily with you, but at the same time that argument is kind of weak. The odds may be low, but there aren't many jobs where people or machinery may be actively seeking to kill you. It can be completely out of the cops hands.
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Old 16th June 2017, 03:20 PM   #648
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
NOT GUILTY.
Gee, what a shock. Don't worry, I'm sure that Loretta Lynch - oh wait, it's Jeff Sessions now.

Never mind.

And then people wonder why folks are marching in the streets shouting "black lives matter!". Or, you know, brazenly stereotyping black people as "thugs" and "rioters". Either way.

Quote:
It's only been a few minutes since I heard the verdict (from BBC news of all places). I drove by the police station and didn't see any activity there. However, it appears crowds are gathering downtown at the courthouse.

Hot Friday night, much tension all around. This is not going to end well.
*shrug* I've long said I'm anti-violence. But at this point...hey, if some people flip out and burn something down, I don't know what to tell you. What else can they do?
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Old 16th June 2017, 06:22 PM   #649
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
NOT GUILTY.


Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Gee, what a shock. Don't worry, I'm sure that Loretta Lynch - oh wait, it's Jeff Sessions now.


Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
*shrug* I've long said I'm anti-violence. But at this point...hey, if some people flip out and burn something down, I don't know what to tell you. What else can they do?
The best thing they could do to break this entire cycle is to not be a community which has an outrageous amount of crime and criminals and criminal apologetics, aid to criminals, concealing criminals, glorifying criminals, etc.

The black community, particularly in certain areas, have a reputation and trigger this response of hyper-caution from police for VERY good reasons. The character of the community, and the behavior pattern of the community, is the root cause of the entire dynamic and only changing that will change things downstream from it.

Of course, I don't actually believe it can be changed... but in your framework, that is what would have to happen.
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Old 16th June 2017, 09:25 PM   #650
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Anyone else wish to advocate for racist murders?
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Old 16th June 2017, 10:16 PM   #651
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Anyone else wish to advocate for racist murders?
How do you justify calling it either racist or a murder?

You can disagree with the verdict and you can disagree with the officer's actions but it isn't contested or in doubt WHY he shot. He shot because he thought Castille was going for the gun. Reasonable or not, that's what he thought and why he did what he did.

By definition, a police officer who shoots a man who is confirmed to have a firearm and who then reaches for something, is not and cannot be murder.

It could be found to be criminal by a jury but it can't be murder. The circumstances make his action very understandable even if they were incorrect, impulsive, tragic, etc. Though I see no evidence beyond the girlfriend's statements in the video that they were any of these things. A girlfriend who was recently charged for attacking someone with a hammer, btw.

We didn't see video showing us what Castiille did or how he did it. My understanding is that such video doesn't exist but that some audio came out that helped get this officer off the hook.

As for racist? What indication is there that this wouldn't have played out exactly the same way had Castille been a different race?

Without seeing exactly what that officer saw, we cannot really say with any sort of certainty that he behaved wrongly.
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Old 16th June 2017, 11:12 PM   #652
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
How do you justify calling it either racist or a murder?
Yeah, that's great, but I still don't argue with white supremacists, which you've long since admitted to being.
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Old 17th June 2017, 03:37 AM   #653
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
How do you justify calling it either racist or a murder?

You can disagree with the verdict and you can disagree with the officer's actions but it isn't contested or in doubt WHY he shot. He shot because he thought Castille was going for the gun. Reasonable or not, that's what he thought and why he did what he did.

By definition, a police officer who shoots a man who is confirmed to have a firearm and who then reaches for something, is not and cannot be murder.

It could be found to be criminal by a jury but it can't be murder. The circumstances make his action very understandable even if they were incorrect, impulsive, tragic, etc. Though I see no evidence beyond the girlfriend's statements in the video that they were any of these things. A girlfriend who was recently charged for attacking someone with a hammer, btw.

We didn't see video showing us what Castiille did or how he did it. My understanding is that such video doesn't exist but that some audio came out that helped get this officer off the hook.

As for racist? What indication is there that this wouldn't have played out exactly the same way had Castille been a different race?

Without seeing exactly what that officer saw, we cannot really say with any sort of certainty that he behaved wrongly.
Yeah, the policeman isn't racist or criminal, just incompetent. A fine example of someone who should remain a cop.

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Old 17th June 2017, 03:55 AM   #654
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
By definition, a police officer who shoots a man who is confirmed to have a firearm and who then reaches for something, is not and cannot be murder.
That's a long way down the slippery slope. By that definition, a policeman can stop someone he dislikes and knows to have a concealed weapon under permit, ask him for his driving license, shoot him as he reaches for it, and be immune from prosecution for murder, despite having carried out a deliberate and premeditated killing.

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Old 17th June 2017, 05:16 AM   #655
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
That's a long way down the slippery slope. By that definition, a policeman can stop someone he dislikes and knows to have a concealed weapon under permit, ask him for his driving license, shoot him as he reaches for it, and be immune from prosecution for murder, despite having carried out a deliberate and premeditated killing.

Dave
And if I plan and carry out the perfect murder, then I will get away with it.

Police, due to the nature of their position, have always had more avenues to getting away with improbable murder plot scenarios than the average citizen.
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Old 17th June 2017, 05:46 AM   #656
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
Police, due to the nature of their position, have always had more avenues to getting away with improbable murder plot scenarios than the average citizen.
In this case, though, the policeman could openly admit his intentions and, by your definition, be innocent of murder. You're not suggesting laws that are more easily circumvented, but ones that give the police the right to kill anyone they wish to.

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Old 17th June 2017, 08:09 AM   #657
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
And if I plan and carry out the perfect murder, then I will get away with it.

Police, due to the nature of their position, have always had more avenues to getting away with improbable murder plot scenarios than the average citizen.
Which is why they should be held to a higher standard. The standards they are currently held to are lower than civillians. US Police unions and the law seem to protect the incompetent.
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Old 17th June 2017, 02:59 PM   #658
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
The black community, particularly in certain areas, have a reputation....
Remember that the victim was a person not a community.

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Old 17th June 2017, 05:16 PM   #659
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Remember that the victim was a person not a community.

Ranb
One could also note that the "police community" in many areas also has an extremely poor reputation. Doesn't justify shooting them, though.

Anyway, since the white supremacy brigade has mostly left this board, let's get to it. This trial turned out to be...about what I expected. The cop heard Castile say the word "gun", panicked, and imagined that Castile actually had a gun and was getting ready to shoot him. And yet, EMS testified that the police had to dig into Castile's pocket to find any gun, so the cop's story seems to be impossible, as opposed to just unreasonable. The similarities to the Levar Jones shooting are obvious.

The good news - unlike many police departments and unions, this one seems to understand that this guy is completely unfit to be a cop, and since he's acquitted, are working to move him to another line of work entirely. This is better than just firing him so he can move to another department, or even worse retaining him, which shows simple hostility to local black people. It's not *ideal*, but that option vanished when the jury dropped the ball.
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Old 17th June 2017, 05:58 PM   #660
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It's just not right. Ever since Trayvon Martin was shot by George Zimmerman, the whole Hispanic vs. Black thing has continued downhill. Now we have Officer Yanez shooting Philando Castile in questionable circumstances.

They should have been great allies instead of enemies.
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Old 17th June 2017, 06:33 PM   #661
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
It's just not right. Ever since Trayvon Martin was shot by George Zimmerman, the whole Hispanic vs. Black thing has continued downhill. Now we have Officer Yanez shooting Philando Castile in questionable circumstances.

They should have been great allies instead of enemies.
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Old 17th June 2017, 06:42 PM   #662
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Remember that the victim was a person not a community.

Ranb
Am I really the one who needs to be reminded of that? Essentially every black person who discusses this or other cases frames it as an attack against them at the community / racial level. They insist that it is more than a case of an individual having a bad fate befall him, it is indicative of society's relationship with / view toward them as a whole. As a community.

If we really lived in a society that thinks about individuals as individuals, you'd be just as likely to see a nonblack person brought onto the news to comment about how awful this event was as you are likely to see a black person brought on to provide that perspective.

I'm merely trying to offer an explanation of why a police officer might be a little bit more wary / on guard about a black man with a gun than he would be a white man. It's because of the behavior pattern of the community he's part of. It's an awareness of stats we can't expect, and wouldn't want, police to lack.

It's the same reason an 85 year old black grandma is probably not going to put the cop on edge quite as much as a 19 year old white male who smells like weed and has facial tattoos will.

Can't expect cops to not notice who the person they're interacting with is.

Originally Posted by marplots View Post
It's just not right. Ever since Trayvon Martin was shot by George Zimmerman, the whole Hispanic vs. Black thing has continued downhill. Now we have Officer Yanez shooting Philando Castile in questionable circumstances.

They should have been great allies instead of enemies.
Allies in what? Wresting control of this society away from whites?
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Old 17th June 2017, 07:52 PM   #663
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
Allies in what? Wresting control of this society away from whites?
Seems like a good plan. Combine forces.
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Old 17th June 2017, 08:09 PM   #664
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Seems like a good plan. Combine forces.

Why not. They're doing it.

White Supremacist dickheads don't have the confidence they used to. It hasn't been all that long ago that Irish, Italians, Poles, etc. weren't "white" either. Now they can't afford to turn them away.
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Old 17th June 2017, 08:11 PM   #665
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The only fundamental question of this case, and the question that determines whether the officer should've been charged / convicted is this:

Did Castille behave stupidly and move in ways that could reasonably lead the officer to think he was going for the weapon after announcing he had it?

Not a one of us here knows the answer. None of the jury knew it either. Diamond the girlfriend (and hammer wielding assaultress) may not even have known.

So how can any reasonable person wish he was in prison for a vast portion of his life over this without knowing that? The jury erred on the side of giving an officer the benefit of the doubt, as is appropriate.
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Old 18th June 2017, 05:10 AM   #666
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The obvious thing to do is not carry round guns. But that isn't going to happen over there.

Why not just have rules where cops can't shoot people to death till they actually see a gun or other lethal weapon

Also. You can't shoot people to death who are sitting prone in a street. Happen to not get your orders. Are obviously mentally impaired but passive. Obviously blind and don't understand what's going on. Little kids with plastic water pistols.

Stuff like that
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Old 18th June 2017, 06:35 AM   #667
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
The obvious thing to do is not carry round guns. But that isn't going to happen over there.

Why not just have rules where cops can't shoot people to death till they actually see a gun or other lethal weapon

Also. You can't shoot people to death who are sitting prone in a street. Happen to not get your orders. Are obviously mentally impaired but passive. Obviously blind and don't understand what's going on. Little kids with plastic water pistols.

Stuff like that
In theory, we already have these rules.

In practice, the Supreme Court has ruled that police can use lethal force in any situation where a "reasonable" person would feel threatened, and many jurors foolishly insist that police can do no wrong. In addition, many police take "warrior cop" training, and departments across the country have been given military equipment, supposedly for drastic emergencies. Even if we put aside outright violent robber governments like that of Ferguson, it's still a recipe for disaster. People like Radley Balko and Michael Wood Jr. have spoken and written about the effects of all of this extensively.
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Old 19th June 2017, 03:04 AM   #668
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Originally Posted by bignickel View Post
And keep in mind: policeman isn't in the top 10 most dangerous jobs in this country.

If a logger (not the guy on this forum) is told ""Sir, I have to tell you, I do have a firearm on me," he can't draw a weapon and fire.

If a construction worker is told ""Sir, I have to tell you, I do have a firearm on me," he can't draw a weapon and fire.

And If a taxi driver is told ""Sir, I have to tell you, I do have a firearm on me," he can't draw a weapon and fire.

But the guy with the safer job can... because. Danger.
Black people should know better than to think they can get away with simply obeying the gun laws that are for white people. Hell the physical evidence in the case contradicted the defenses story and it still doesn't matter.

And of course the pro gun groups will ignore this because they are really only about white people owning guns. THis should be a major case for the NRA but they don't care about some black guy thinking he can own a gun like proper white folk.
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Old 19th June 2017, 04:02 AM   #669
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Black people should know better than to think they can get away with simply obeying the gun laws that are for white people. Hell the physical evidence in the case contradicted the defenses story and it still doesn't matter.

And of course the pro gun groups will ignore this because they are really only about white people owning guns. THis should be a major case for the NRA but they don't care about some black guy thinking he can own a gun like proper white folk.
You seem really certain that Castile didn't behave incredibly stupidly and either reach for the gun or make reaching motions which the officer could reasonably interpret that way in the moments leading up to his death.

I'm curious, from whence do you draw this certainty?
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Old 20th June 2017, 02:29 PM   #670
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/06/20...-released.html

Dash cam footage released.
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Old 20th June 2017, 03:09 PM   #671
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Yes. So many people thought they knew everything just from the live-streamed aftermath. I knew the entire video would have the truth.
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Old 20th June 2017, 05:16 PM   #672
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Just watched the full dashcam footage. Thoughts:

- Officer Janez is very polite and professional from the moment this starts until even AFTER he's told Castile has firearm

- Looks like the vehicle had exactly the burned out tail bulb he says to Castile that it has, to my eye. Left rear lights are not all as functional as the right side. This is relevant because NPR did a huge thing about how Castile had 46 pull overs in his years as a driver and they implied this was evidence of racial profiling and inappropriate behavior by cops. This video indicates strongly toward the other possibility: Castile was a bad driver and not conscientious at all about keeping his vehicle in good working order. I recently had a few lights on my car go out over a couple months and each time I wasted no time correcting it.

- Janez was not going to "execute Castile juss fo bein' black" and Castile could have easily survived this even after declaring he had the firearm. He was shot, without doubt, because of what he was doing with his hands in the moments immediately after telling that to Janez. So, the only question now is "what was he doing with his hands down at one side, and why?"

Was he attempting to get his concealed carry permit and/or license to show the officer?
Was he actually going for the gun?

I consider option two very unlikely, but not 100% impossible. I would wager very strongly that he was getting his ID. That makes this tragic of course, but after you tell a cop "I have a firearm" you keep your hands still, visible, and you wait for instructions. You don't immediately go to reach for anything in your pants. If you do, this is a foreseeable outcome.

So Janez being convicted here would have been absolutely absurd, but expect that after a decade or two more on current trends, a cop in a situation like this WILL be convicted or only able to get hung juries at best. Racial appeasement / tribalized jury system / mob rule / trial by media are all growing trends.

So why did Castile make the incredibly dumb and fatal decision to reach around his pants and apparently not even stop doing so as the officer said "don't reach for it!" twice? Probably because he was high and his judgement / awareness / comprehension / reaction time were all compromised.

I hope that weed was worth ruining this officer's career, life and ability to ever have mental peace again and I hope that weed was worth causing massive loss and anguish to his family and trauma to the child in the back seat.

ETA:

I went and found the YouTube version of it which had the most views and actually still allowed comments. Browsed through. Most are agreeing with my take here, but there was an interesting dispute between people saying Castile says "I'mma have to pull it out" at 1:12 in the video after the Officer says "don't pull it out" and others saying Castile actually says "I'm not gonna pull it out"

This reminds me of the "these ****** ___s" thing on the Zimmerman call. People heard what they wanted to hear to bolster the narrative they emotionally connected with, at least in the case of those who thought it was a racial slur (it wasn't) but in this case, after listening several times, I believe he does say "I'm not gonna pull it out" - though the first time I heard it, it did sound somewhat like "I'mma have to pull it out."

So see? I ended up landing on the interpretation which DOES NOT fit my "narrative" (I actually don't have a narrative, I have a steely eyed, no-nonsense realistic appraisal of the situation.)
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Old 20th June 2017, 06:00 PM   #673
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
And the video shows exactly what we already knew - Castile was told to hand over his license, made a good faith effort to inform the cop of what was happening, and was rewarded with multiple shots from a panicked police officer.

The cop should be under the jail right about now - but at least he seems to be leaving the profession entirely. That's below the bare minimum of what justice looks like, but it's better than we usually see for cops that murder black people.
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Old 20th June 2017, 06:26 PM   #674
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
And the video shows exactly what we already knew - Castile was told to hand over his license, made a good faith effort to inform the cop of what was happening, and was rewarded with multiple shots from a panicked police officer.

The cop should be under the jail right about now - but at least he seems to be leaving the profession entirely. That's below the bare minimum of what justice looks like, but it's better than we usually see for cops that murder black people.
Let's go through the portion of the video where they interact... I've got it queued up now, and I'll transcribe it.

Janez: "Hello sir"
Castile: "What's going on?"
Janez: "How're you? Good. Reason I pulled you over is your brake lights are out. So you only have one activated, active brake light and that's gonna be your passenger side one. Your third brake light, which is up here on top, and then this one back here - is gonna be out. You have your license and insurance?"
***Castile can be seen reaching into glove compartment and pulling out the insurance and/or registration info and handing it to Janez who then begins reading it***
Castile: "Sir, I have to tell you I do have a firearm on me."
Janez: "Okay, okay." (said calmly and matter of factly)
Janez: "Don't reach for it then." (Fairly calm)
Janez: "Don't pull it out!" (Less calm but still not super loud yet - just insistent command voice at this point)
Castile: "I'm not pulling it out" (Sounds somewhat irritated, or just seeking to impress upon the officer with clarity that he isn't pulling it out. Spoken with emphasis on "not")
Janez: "Don't pull it out!" (much louder and more insistent)
***as he says it this time he draws his firearm with his right hand and reaches his left hand into the car, trying to stop Castile's hand from getting what it's reaching for***
***Something causes Janez to draw back and give up on trying to physically prevent Castile from getting what he's reaching for, and draw his firearm and shoot Castile several times***
***At this point, you can hear Castile cry out in what are very sad and difficult to listen to expressions of pain as he says "I wasn't reaching for it!" once or twice and as his girlfriend echoes that***



So now, let's make some obvious observations that no one should be disputing if they watched this with a reasonable, fair mind:
  1. Janez was polite and professional from the beginning
  2. It appears there really was an issue with the car's brake lights
  3. Castile gets a lot of credit for being cooperative and promptly getting his insurance from the glove compartment and handing it to the officer
  4. Castile gets a lot of credit for informing the officer of his firearm
  5. Castile gets credit for emphasizing that he is NOT pulling out the gun
  6. Janez gets credit for repeatedly, in a fast moving and brief situation, instructing Castile to stop what he's doing. After the fact, people can nitpick his wordchoice but when you see how fast this goes, that's a stupid thing to do. Janez also gets credit for trying to physically reach in and prevent Castile from reaching with his hand. Between him doing this, his tone, the seriousness of the situation (you've just told a cop you have a firearm and he's telling you to stop reaching for it - even if it's not what you're reaching for) there is simply no excuse for Castile not halting all motion and though things went fast, he ABSOLUTELY had time to halt his motions. Janez gets credit for providing him time to do that.
  7. What person would ever, ever keep reaching for anything, regardless of what it is, as an increasingly aggravated police officer with a gun tells them to stop and then even physically tries to stop them with his hand? What in the world would make a person continue? Being high? Being stupid? Being both? Being prideful and wanting to have a little moment where you get to pull out the wallet and say "see officer? it was just my wallet!" ??? It's hard to explain, but I'm wagering intoxication played a role in bad judgement here.
  8. How can anyone call this murder or say the officer should "be under the jail" ? He behaved properly. The fault here is on Castile.
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Old 20th June 2017, 07:03 PM   #675
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Well the important thing we don't know .. was he reaching for anything ? And even if he was, and said 'I'm not reaching for a gun' .. is that enough reason to be killed on spot ?
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Old 20th June 2017, 07:21 PM   #676
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
Well the important thing we don't know .. was he reaching for anything ?
We know he was reaching for something. Here's how:

1.) First of all, the only way he wasn't is if we believe Officer Nicey McPleasantpants goes from "Yeah hi, how are you doing? Okay yeah, you've go ta tail light out" to full 1000% Psycho murderer mode where he's prepared to pretend an innocent man who has his hands clearly in view, up on the steering wheel, is reaching for something when he isn't, just so he can murder this person, and then goes back to being clearly very emotionally impacted by what he did immediately after.

2.) Diamond Reynolds, the girlfriend, acknowledges Castile was reaching for something in how she talks about the incident on both this video and the live stream video. She disputes that it was the gun he was reaching for, but not that he was reaching for something.

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
And even if he was, and said 'I'm not reaching for a gun' .. is that enough reason to be killed on spot ?
Wrong way to think about it.

The question is:

"if you've just told an officer you have a firearm and then you start to reach for something in your pants, even if it's your wallet and not the firearm, and the officer starts yelling at you to not reach for the firearm, even if that's not what you're doing, and he reaches into the car to try to stop your hand going where it's going, and you do anything other than completely halt all motion of your hands immediately when that first command is given, and certainly upon the subsequent ones... is getting shot multiple times by that officer a super foreseeable result?"

And the answer is obviously yes. And you can also expect that he won't get convicted for it, either. In fact, he won't even get charged unless the media and "community" can make a racial story about it.

This was a non-story and certainly not a racial incident.

Had Castile been Erik Svenson of Minneapolis and done exactly these same actions, he'd have been shot in exactly the same way. And there would likely never, ever have been charges brought or a trial over it.
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Old 20th June 2017, 08:48 PM   #677
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My take: they both ********** up. Pretty badly.
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Old 20th June 2017, 08:50 PM   #678
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
My take: they both ********** up. Pretty badly.
I'd be curious to hear you lay out what you think each of them should have done differently.
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Old 20th June 2017, 09:02 PM   #679
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
Am I really the one who needs to be reminded of that?
Based on what you write in your posts, you obviously are the one who needs to be reminded of that fact.
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Old 21st June 2017, 12:16 AM   #680
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
So now, let's make some obvious observations that no one should be disputing if they watched this with a reasonable, fair mind:....
The "obvious observations" you're making are those of an eye witness or at the very least, a person who was in the court room to hear the testimony. Also I'm not about to be completely convinced of "the obvious observations" of a person who takes the other view; that the police officer is a murderer.
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