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Tags gun incidents , police incidents , police misconduct charges , shooting incidents

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Old 7th July 2016, 03:42 PM   #161
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President Obama is speaking about this right now (he's in Poland where it is 12:43am).
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Old 7th July 2016, 03:46 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
President Obama is speaking about this right now (he's in Poland where it is 12:43am).
Don't got all the facts but gots to gets in front of a camera! I expect nothing less. I hope he does some of his greatest hits like "The Police Acted Stupidly" or "If I Had A Son".
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Old 7th July 2016, 03:47 PM   #163
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Obama says the obvious. That these types of shootings are symptomatic of racial problems.
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Old 7th July 2016, 03:48 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by HenryLee View Post
Don't got all the facts but gots to gets in front of a camera! I expect nothing less. I hope he does some of his greatest hits like "The Police Acted Stupidly" or "If I Had A Son".
How dare the President of the United States speak about a huge problem in America (cops shooting people, especially black people).
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Old 7th July 2016, 04:23 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by Caper View Post
Yeah. I think the police in Atlanta would be fine. Your wife's hang ups are largely unfounded. The odds of her getting roughed up by a cop in Atlanta for being a successful black woman are astronomical..... Actually if shes worried more about the police then she is pretty bad at risk assessment.
Astronomically high, you mean? Even when you're white, the Atlanta PD will detain you for 8 hours for the felony of "jaywalking".
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Old 7th July 2016, 04:30 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
It was the quantitative part of the claim I was pushing back on. And I guess the scope of the infractions involved. Would they look the other way if their partner didn't polish their boot with an approved brand of polish? Sure, probably 100% of them would.

Would they look the other way if their partner violated a serious law, a life-threating situation? I'm thinking very few would, and there doesn't seem to be compelling evidence to believe otherwise.
Have you ever heard of a partner of a murderous cop who spoke out against him? Or of any other cop at the scene? Have you ever heard of an investigation which did not amount to a cover-up?

For every "bad cop" and lethal "incident", there are at least five other cops actively involved in the cover-up. They're bad cops too, IMHO.

And while I agree with your point that you cannot hold each and every cop individually accountable for these "incidents" and cannot hold it against them that they don't quit their job in disgust, I think it's also telling that you never, ever hear of a cop criticizing this behaviour. If that ever happened, it would be front-page news.
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Old 7th July 2016, 04:46 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
Have you ever heard of a partner of a murderous cop who spoke out against him? Or of any other cop at the scene? Have you ever heard of an investigation which did not amount to a cover-up?
Yes, I've been reading the Baltimore trainwreck pretty closely since it erupted maybe fifteen years ago. The crimes were brought to the authorities by coworkers, some of whom were even implicating themselves for lesser crimes (planting evidence), having finally realized they were in over their heads and did not want to be conspirators of silence for their coworkers' torture, rape, and murder crimes.


Originally Posted by ddt View Post
For every "bad cop" and lethal "incident", there are at least five other cops actively involved in the cover-up. They're bad cops too, IMHO.
Yes, I think so too, if we're talking about serious crimes. Any LEO who helps with a coverup of anything serious is a 'bad' cop in my opinion.



Originally Posted by ddt View Post
And while I agree with your point that you cannot hold each and every cop individually accountable for these "incidents" and cannot hold it against them that they don't quit their job in disgust, I think it's also telling that you never, ever hear of a cop criticizing this behaviour. If that ever happened, it would be front-page news.
We do, but it's like when Muslims stage protest demonstrations against ISIS. It's not front page news, because newspapers are selling to the public who don't want to read that - it's not the narrative, it hurts the brain.

The other thing about police internal informants is that they want to be low profile and preferably anonymous, because if they want to keep working in their profession, exposure would make their ongoing careers a living hell. So the mechanics of building a case are to get evidence that doesn't rely on the testimony of these original informants, but they're an important part of the process.
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Old 7th July 2016, 04:49 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
I'm middle aged white and have a short hair cut, I live in Ontario Canada.

When I get pulled over for a bad light or speeding or whatever, I put the window down all the way, I pull over asap, shut off my car, and place my arms on the top of the steering wheel with my hands RIGHT UP by the WINDSHIELD.

When the officer asked for my ID I tell him were it is and ask if it's OK to retrieve it now, and I do so slowly with one hand.

If I can do that here ... everyone can do that everywhere.
This makes me quite happy that I live in a country where the police doesn't automatically assume that any and all they encounter might have a gun. I don't have to be afraid of the police at a traffic stop or otherwise.

This is a symptom of a major problem with especially the US where the 2nd amendment is synonymous for many with "freedom" where actually that freedom comes at a very high price. There is so many weapons in circulation. Anyone the police encounter might be armed. A police officer has to be very disciplined to avoid being afraid of getting shot. Subsequently anyone encountering the police is afraid. The whole interaction gets all screwed up.
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Old 7th July 2016, 04:58 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
Obama says the obvious. That these types of shootings are symptomatic of racial problems.
So how long until people start accusing him of "supporting thugs" and "wanting to kill cops"?

Haha, just kidding, that's probably already picking back up.
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Old 7th July 2016, 05:06 PM   #170
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Old 7th July 2016, 05:51 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I have seen the video three times now. Your quote is not quite correct:

She said to the cop, "you told him to get his ID, he was reaching for his wallet, he told you he had a gun and a permit" or something close to that.
The Minneapolis Star Tribune has posted a transcript of the Facebook video @ http://www.startribune.com/transcrip...deo/385850431/
From the first paragraph:
Quote:
He was trying to get out his ID and his wallet out his pocket and he let the officer know that he was that he had a firearm and he was reaching for his wallet
It sure looks to me that based on the start of the transcript the Guardian's paraphrasing was correct.
Quote:
Reynolds says to her Facebook viewers that Castile was licensed to carry a weapon and told the officer he had a firearm as he reached for his wallet and ID.

I think this is a major tragedy and the officer screwed up royally but I also stand by my first comment this morning.
Originally Posted by paulhutch View Post
Bad idea, telling a cop at a stop that you have a gun while you are reaching for something the cop can't see.
If anyone thinks it's a good idea to say to a cop "I have a firearm" while reaching into your pocket then your nuts.
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Old 7th July 2016, 06:17 PM   #172
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Isnt the cop supposed to actually see the gun before shooting ?
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Old 7th July 2016, 06:25 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
Isnt the cop supposed to actually see the gun before shooting ?
No, just imagining one is enough.

Originally Posted by paulhutch
If anyone thinks it's a good idea to say to a cop "I have a firearm" while reaching into your pocket then your nuts.
I agree. If you're Black then the only way to protect yourself is just use it.

BTW going for your nuts probably isn't a good idea either, even after reaching into your pocket.
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Old 7th July 2016, 06:25 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
Isnt the cop supposed to actually see the gun before shooting ?
They should at least give the guy a second to put his hands on the wheel if the cop asked for license and then immediately gave a different command.


On another note: Black Lives Matter and So Do Their Gun Rights: Where’s the NRA on Philando Castile?
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Old 7th July 2016, 06:26 PM   #175
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Man points shotgun at passing cars, points it at an officer when the police arrive, then when that's knocked away by the police pulls a pistol on the officers from his pocket while saying "I got something for you", actually fires the weapon, and yet the police still manage to arrest him without shooting him.

Guess what color his skin is. Go on, guess.
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Old 7th July 2016, 06:48 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by A'isha View Post
Guess what color his skin is. Go on, guess.
Big deal. Unless you can show that the police in Raliegh NC have a history of killing blacks more than whites in this kind of situation then you're just blowing smoke. What did your research reveal?

Ranb
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Old 7th July 2016, 07:18 PM   #178
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He was over 60, does that explain it at least as well as his skin color?
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Old 7th July 2016, 07:27 PM   #179
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Sandra Bland - failure to use a turn signal = Murdered
Freddie Gray - carrying a LEGAL knife = Murdered
Eric Garner - selling cigarettes = Murdered
Alton Sterling - selling CD’s/DVD’s = Murdered
Philando Castile - broken tail light = Murdered
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Old 7th July 2016, 07:36 PM   #181
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The anti-gun nutters on this board have finally found themselves a 'gun lover' they can support, what a strange turn of events.
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Old 7th July 2016, 07:53 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Big deal. Unless you can show that the police in Raliegh NC have a history of killing blacks more than whites in this kind of situation then you're just blowing smoke. What did your research reveal?

Ranb
Since data on unarmed men killed by cops is not kept, where do you recommend we look?
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Old 7th July 2016, 08:03 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by Ammonitida View Post
url]http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/crime/article85991147.html[/url]
Unlike the man in my link above, the police shot back at him after he fired at them.

Quote:
Unlike the man in my link above, the police shot back at him after he fired at them.

Quote:
Unlike the man in my link above, the police shot back at him after he fired at them.

Quote:
Unlike the man in my link above, the police shot back at him after he fired at them.

Quote:
Unlike the man in my link above, the police set a police dog on him before he even fired at them.

Quote:
They all lived while this unarmed guy was killed while begging for his life, allegedly. Guess his color. It may shock you too.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.2582759
Study finds police fatally shoot unarmed black men at disproportionate rates

Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
The anti-gun nutters on this board have finally found themselves a 'gun lover' they can support, what a strange turn of events.
The pro-gun nutters on this board have finally found themselves a 'gun-lover' they can't support, what a strange turn of events. [EDIT: For the record, I own a pistol and am in the process of applying for a permit]

You'd think the NRA would be all over this, but they've been strangely silent. They're sure worked up about Matt Damon, though.
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Old 7th July 2016, 08:03 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
I like how the police are now to be dealt with like vicious dogs.

Don't make any sudden moves. Don't assume a posture that could be interpreted as agressive. Don't express fear, they can sense that.

Failing any of that, and it's your fault if you get bit.
^^^ This

Johnny Karate's post is not the first time I heard this set of advice. I heard/read similar advice at least ten years ago. Often given by black parents to their children.

Am I the only person who thinks that if parents must teach children to treat people whose job is "to serve and protect" like potentially vicious wild animals, then something is *********** wrong with this country?
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Old 7th July 2016, 08:06 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Sandra Bland - failure to use a turn signal = Murdered
Freddie Gray - carrying a LEGAL knife = Murdered
Eric Garner - selling cigarettes = Murdered
Alton Sterling - selling CD’s/DVD’s = Murdered
Philando Castile - broken tail light = Murdered
You missed a few.

Tamir Rice - 12 yrs old holding a toy gun Murdered
Walter Scott - fleeing from cop, shot in the back Murdered Cop in this case charged with murder.
Laquan McDonald - teen with three inch knife he wasn't threatening anyone with, walking away from cops shot 16 times by a cop who had just arrived on the scene. Cop had to be stopped by other officers when he continued to shoot the lifeless body of the teen.
Timothy Russell and Malissa Williams, each of whom was hit by more than 20 bullets, unarmed in car. Murdered Cleveland cops shot at 2 unarmed black people 137 times. Years later, 6 of them are fired.

There are many more.
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Old 7th July 2016, 08:08 PM   #186
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3-6 Dallas police have been shot at the rally over the deaths apparently
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Old 7th July 2016, 08:16 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
It was the quantitative part of the claim I was pushing back on. And I guess the scope of the infractions involved. Would they look the other way if their partner didn't polish their boot with an approved brand of polish? Sure, probably 100% of them would.

Would they look the other way if their partner violated a serious law, a life-threating situation? I'm thinking very few would, and there doesn't seem to be compelling evidence to believe otherwise.





We don't know, since we don't know how many were found innocent specifically because of conspiracy to suppress evidence among their peers.
In the interest of narrowing this specific knowledge gap of mine, I did some research.

The news is good and bad. Good because I have better information. Bad because I'm wrong and it does look like a systemic problem.

DOJ Study: [Police Attitudes Toward Abuse of Authority: Findings From a National Study]

Relevant excerpt:
Quote:
A surprising 6 in 10 (61 percent) indicated that police officers do not always report even seri- ous criminal violations that involve the abuse of authority by fellow officers.
So, I was using >50% as a threshold for 'most' and this obviously satisfies it.

I stand corrected.
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Old 7th July 2016, 08:30 PM   #188
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CNN is reporting one of those Dallas transit cops has died.
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Old 7th July 2016, 08:36 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
CNN is reporting one of those Dallas transit cops has died.
Four DART officers and at least one other officer shot, one of the DART officers died. There were apparently people claiming protesters were hit too, but I haven't seen anything even remotely resembling a confirmation of that.

At least one shooter was armed with a rifle and fired from an alley near where the protest was. Some witnesses quoted in the media said it was indiscriminate fire, others reported meticulous shots.

EDIT: Dallas police chief is being quoted as saying 10 officers hit, three were killed by two "snipers" (his term). No suspects in custody.
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Old 7th July 2016, 09:09 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by A'isha View Post
Unlike the man in my link above, the police shot back at him after he fired at them.



Unlike the man in my link above, the police shot back at him after he fired at them.



Unlike the man in my link above, the police shot back at him after he fired at them.



Unlike the man in my link above, the police shot back at him after he fired at them.



Unlike the man in my link above, the police set a police dog on him before he even fired at them.



Study finds police fatally shoot unarmed black men at disproportionate rates



The pro-gun nutters on this board have finally found themselves a 'gun-lover' they can't support, what a strange turn of events. [EDIT: For the record, I own a pistol and am in the process of applying for a permit]

You'd think the NRA would be all over this, but they've been strangely silent. They're sure worked up about Matt Damon, though.
Uh, in the first link I provided, the police did not shoot at the suspect.
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Old 7th July 2016, 09:10 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
Astronomically high, you mean? Even when you're white, the Atlanta PD will detain you for 8 hours for the felony of "jaywalking".
So how many jaywalkers did that happen to? There are millions upon millions of jaywalking a per year in Atlanta. What do you suppose the odds of getting put away for 8 hours is?
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Old 7th July 2016, 09:13 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by erlando View Post
This makes me quite happy that I live in a country where the police doesn't automatically assume that any and all they encounter might have a gun. I don't have to be afraid of the police at a traffic stop or otherwise.

This is a symptom of a major problem with especially the US where the 2nd amendment is synonymous for many with "freedom" where actually that freedom comes at a very high price. There is so many weapons in circulation. Anyone the police encounter might be armed. A police officer has to be very disciplined to avoid being afraid of getting shot. Subsequently anyone encountering the police is afraid. The whole interaction gets all screwed up.
Me too. And, strangely enough, I live in the same country as the poster you were responding to.

It has been a number of years since I was last stopped by a traffic cop so things may have changed, but I have never seen a traffic stop where the officer drew his gun. My few traffic stops have always involved a cordial and fairly informal interaction with the officer. That said, I have never been stopped for a traffic violation in the US.
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Old 7th July 2016, 09:19 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by Ammonitida View Post
Uh, in the first link I provided, the police did not shoot at the suspect.
They also didn't seem to have much of an opportunity, since the only officer there was driving a car as all this was happening.
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Old 7th July 2016, 09:31 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Sandra Bland - failure to use a turn signal = Murdered
Freddie Gray - carrying a LEGAL knife = Murdered
Eric Garner - selling cigarettes = Murdered
Alton Sterling - selling CD’s/DVD’s = Murdered
Philando Castile - broken tail light = Murdered
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You missed a few.

Tamir Rice - 12 yrs old holding a toy gun Murdered
Walter Scott - fleeing from cop, shot in the back Murdered Cop in this case charged with murder.
Laquan McDonald - teen with three inch knife he wasn't threatening anyone with, walking away from cops shot 16 times by a cop who had just arrived on the scene. Cop had to be stopped by other officers when he continued to shoot the lifeless body of the teen.
Timothy Russell and Malissa Williams, each of whom was hit by more than 20 bullets, unarmed in car. Murdered Cleveland cops shot at 2 unarmed black people 137 times. Years later, 6 of them are fired.

There are many more.
Screwed up values. The police acted properly in all of those cases. If you want an example of outrageous corruption, slimeballs covering for their own, look no further than Comey's refusal to indict Clinton. That should be the lead story on every network in America!
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Old 7th July 2016, 09:31 PM   #195
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Old 7th July 2016, 09:57 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
The anti-gun nutters on this board have finally found themselves a 'gun lover' they can support, what a strange turn of events.
The behaviour of a sufficient proportion of US police officers is why I can understand why people support the second amendment.

The solution is to fix the police, rather than try to outgun them.
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link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 7th July 2016, 10:09 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
No attempt was made to give the driver any sort of first aid, instead he was held at gun point and they watched him die. The female passenger, who was clam and cooperative was treated like she was a danger to all of those armed police officers.

The US police force have repeatedly shown themselves to be trigger happy cowards who do not care about consequences.
Not to mention there were, what, half a dozen cop cars present with at least as many officers? I thought the standard procedure was to administer aid so that the suspect doesn't die. Instead, the cop keeps the gun trained on Castile with his finger on the trigger, then treats Reynolds (the passenger) as if she's armed too! As far as I'm concerned, they're all complicit in this incident and should be charged as such if (and this is important) the incident played out the way Reynolds claims.
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Old 7th July 2016, 10:11 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
The behaviour of a sufficient proportion of US police officers is why I can understand why people support the second amendment.

The solution is to fix the police, rather than try to outgun them.
Sadly, most of the guys who claim to support the second amendment do not do so for the groups most likely to be abused by police.

But yes, that is the fix, as far as we can manage it.
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Old 7th July 2016, 10:11 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by Vermonter View Post
Not to mention there were, what, half a dozen cop cars present with at least as many officers? I thought the standard procedure was to administer aid so that the suspect doesn't die. Instead, the cop keeps the gun trained on Castile with his finger on the trigger, then treats Reynolds (the passenger) as if she's armed too! As far as I'm concerned, they're all complicit in this incident and should be charged as such if (and this is important) the incident played out the way Reynolds claims.
I seriously think that cops, when they shoot an innocent person, often want them to die so in order to eliminate witnesses.
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Old 7th July 2016, 10:12 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
The anti-gun nutters on this board have finally found themselves a 'gun lover' they can support, what a strange turn of events.
That the best you can come up with?

Pretty lame.
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