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Tags donald trump , lying charges , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections , US-Russia relations , vladimir putin

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Old 3rd April 2017, 11:34 AM   #361
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Originally Posted by MrFliop View Post
The majority of the claims of Trump colluding with Russia to steal the election have been debunked!!!
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I'll save people some time, nothing new here. Nor does it debunk Trump collusion.
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Old 3rd April 2017, 11:38 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I'll save people some time, nothing new here. Nor does it debunk Trump collusion.
Whew, I was pretty worried when I saw those three exclamation points.
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Old 3rd April 2017, 11:38 AM   #363
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If it was words, I'd read them.

Random YT videos I don't have time for.
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Old 3rd April 2017, 11:40 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I'll save people some time, nothing new here. Nor does it debunk Trump collusion.
Based on your quick response I wont be surprised if you didn't even watch them
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Old 3rd April 2017, 11:41 AM   #365
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
If it was words, I'd read them.

Random YT videos I don't have time for.
They're out of date news segments from when the dossier on Trump's Russia connection was first released by Buzzfeed. Apparently we're to believe nothing has happened in the world since mid January that would change any analysis of this information.
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Old 3rd April 2017, 12:53 PM   #366
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Originally Posted by MrFliop View Post
The majority of the claims of Trump colluding with Russia to steal the election have been debunked!!!
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I never click bare naked youtube links. I would ask you to summarize the key points, however I suspect the summaries posted by others tell me all I need to know. Still, if you want to take a crack at it, be my guest.
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Old 3rd April 2017, 01:57 PM   #367
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Ohhhhkayyyyyy.

Quote:
The United Arab Emirates arranged a secret meeting in January between Blackwater founder Erik Prince and a Russian close to President Vladi*mir Putin as part of an apparent effort to establish a back-channel line of communication between Moscow and President-elect Donald Trump, according to U.S., European and Arab officials.

The meeting took place around Jan. 11 — nine days before Trump’s inauguration — in the Seychelles islands in the Indian Ocean, officials said. Though the full agenda remains unclear, the UAE agreed to broker the meeting in part to explore whether Russia could be persuaded to curtail its relationship with Iran, including in Syria, a Trump administration objective that would likely require major concessions to Moscow on U.S. sanctions.

Though Prince had no formal role with the Trump campaign or transition team, he presented himself as an unofficial envoy for Trump to high-ranking Emiratis involved in setting up his meeting with the Putin confidant, according to the officials, who did not identify the Russian.
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Old 3rd April 2017, 02:03 PM   #368
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The hilarious thing about the mutual admiration between Rump and Trussia is that it's made it absolutely impossible for Rump to get away with doing anything that would favor his buddy Vlad. I expect Vlad is very much regretting hooking up with such an gang of idiots.
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Old 3rd April 2017, 02:10 PM   #369
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I expect Vlad is very much regretting hooking up with such an gang of idiots.
Nyet. He is making Yankees look like fools. Is always good thing for neo-Soviet Uni-Iiii mean, eh, modern day Russian State.
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Old 3rd April 2017, 02:15 PM   #370
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
The hilarious thing about the mutual admiration between Rump and Trussia is that it's made it absolutely impossible for Rump to get away with doing anything that would favor his buddy Vlad. I expect Vlad is very much regretting hooking up with such an gang of idiots.
Many commentators have made the point that Putin's goal was primarily not to elect Trump or extract concessions, but to undercut Clinton and to disrupt the U.S. political process so Americans would lose confidence in their leaders. Getting an idiot in the White House was a bonus.
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Old 3rd April 2017, 02:17 PM   #371
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Originally Posted by MrFliop View Post
Based on your quick response I wont be surprised if you didn't even watch them
Skimmed 'em actually, all three. It's easy when it's old news I'm very familiar with.

Care to point out anything new or something that actually debunks Trump-camp collusion other than pointing out there is no absolute proof yet?

You wouldn't be the first person putting out the false narrative that collusion has been disproved because it has yet to be proved. You do know the difference, right? Because more than a few Trumper pundits in the news panels think we can't tell the difference. Oh wait...

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Old 3rd April 2017, 03:10 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
What a tangled slimy swampy cast of characters
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Old 3rd April 2017, 03:40 PM   #373
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Originally Posted by portlandatheist View Post
What a tangled slimy swampy cast of characters
You have to love a place that honestly says, “The Seychelles is the kind of place where you can have a good time away from the eyes of the media."
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Old 3rd April 2017, 03:56 PM   #374
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A Russian spy had previously attempted to recruit Carter Page.

Quote:
A former campaign adviser for Donald Trump met with and passed documents to a Russian intelligence operative in New York City in 2013.

The adviser, Carter Page, met with a Russian intelligence operative named Victor Podobnyy, who was later charged by the US government alongside two others for acting as unregistered agents of a foreign government. The charges, filed in January 2015, came after federal investigators busted a Russian spy ring that was seeking information on US sanctions as well as efforts to develop alternative energy. Page is an energy consultant.

A court filing by the US government contains a transcript of a recorded conversation in which Podobnyy speaks with one of the other men busted in the spy ring, Igor Sporyshev, about trying to recruit someone identified as “Male-1.” BuzzFeed News has confirmed that “Male-1” is Page.
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Old 3rd April 2017, 04:34 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I wish I was watching more closely this morning to see who it was on CNN saying he hoped the Senate committee would get to the bottom of why Russia was favoring Clinton. And he said it repeatedly.
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Spicer is in rare form... The Real Russian Collusiontm was perpetrated by Obama/Hillary.



Bizarro world.

I'm telling you... They've gone from "alt-right" to "alt-reality".
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Old 3rd April 2017, 05:56 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by MrFliop View Post
The majority of the claims of Trump colluding with Russia to steal the election have been debunked!!!
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Nope.
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Old 3rd April 2017, 06:29 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
This is good but I am getting exhausted by anonymous sources. Can a journalist actually review a primary document for once?
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Old 3rd April 2017, 06:38 PM   #378
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
This is good but I am getting exhausted by anonymous sources. Can a journalist actually review a primary document for once?
Guess you'll have to wait for the FBI to complete their investigation, that is if Trump doesn't try to snuff out the investigation. And I'm surprised he hasn't already.
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Old 3rd April 2017, 08:12 PM   #379
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It seems that not a day goes by when something new is revealed.

Quote:
Trump campaign advisor Carter Page targeted by Russian spies

Two years before joining the Trump campaign as a foreign policy adviser, New York business consultant Carter Page was targeted for recruitment as an intelligence source by Russian spies promising favors for business opportunities in Russia, according to a sealed FBI complaint.
Page confirmed to ABC News that he is the individual identified as "Male-1" in a 2015 court document submitted in a case involving the Russian spies.

Page told ABC News he cooperated in the case, and felt the Feds "unmasked" him by describing him in January 2015 in a manner that would be known to energy insiders.

"I didn't want to be a spy," he said in an interview early Monday afternoon. "I'm not a spy."

According to the document, the FBI interviewed Page as part of the investigation stemming from the indictment of three Russian men identified as agents of the Russian overseas intelligence agency, the SVR. One of them, Evgeny Buryakov, was operating undercover as an executive in the New York office of a Russian development bank. The Buryakov case resurfaced in headlines last week when President Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner revealed he had met with the head of the same bank. Buryakov was sentenced to 30 months in prison as part of a plea agreement, but he was released from prison over the weekend and is awaiting deportation to Russia.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump...ry?id=46557506
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Old 4th April 2017, 12:09 AM   #380
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
This is good but I am getting exhausted by anonymous sources. Can a journalist actually review a primary document for once?
What? Do you think a journalist just shows up at the CIA and says "I'm working on a story. Lemme see all your files about Trump." And do you even think there would actually be any documents about something like this? The linked story quotes "U.S., European and Arab officials." The four reporters know who the officials are and believe them, the reporters -- one of whom won a Pulitzer -- have put their own names on the story, and it was published by a leading paper whose reputation rests on its investigations of government misconduct. That's about as good as it gets.

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Old 4th April 2017, 03:27 AM   #381
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More Russian connections from Rachel Maddow.

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Just a coincidence, I'm sure.
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Old 4th April 2017, 04:53 AM   #382
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
What? Do you think a journalist just shows up at the CIA and says "I'm working on a story. Lemme see all your files about Trump." And do you even think there would actually be any documents about something like this? The linked story quotes "U.S., European and Arab officials." The four reporters know who the officials are and believe them, the reporters -- one of whom won a Pulitzer -- have put their own names on the story, and it was published by a leading paper whose reputation rests on its investigations of government misconduct. That's about as good as it gets.
The Pentagon papers and Snowden leaks are examples of reporters gaining access to primary documents. Heck, let's take that movie spotlight and the importance of actually sourcing documents in that story (I have a 19 month old so I am just so excited to talk about a movie I have seen).
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Old 4th April 2017, 07:54 AM   #383
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
The Pentagon papers and Snowden leaks are examples of reporters gaining access to primary documents. Heck, let's take that movie spotlight and the importance of actually sourcing documents in that story (I have a 19 month old so I am just so excited to talk about a movie I have seen).
And Watergate coverage was heavily based on private conversations with anonymous sources. When somebody's actively trying to do something wrong, he's not going to create much documentation.
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Old 4th April 2017, 11:35 AM   #384
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FBI plans to "surge" Russia probe.

Quote:
The FBI is planning to create a special section based at its Washington headquarters to co-ordinate its investigation of Russian activities designed to influence the 2016 presidential election, according to a person familiar with the plan.

The move, a sign of how seriously the bureau is taking allegations of Russian meddling in American politics, is also aimed at giving FBI director James Comey greater visibility into the investigation’s granular details. “It’s meant to surge resources,” said one FBI agent.

Creation of the temporary unit mirrors the bureau’s approach to other sensitive investigations, including the WikiLeaks disclosure of classified US government documents and Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server while secretary of state.
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Old 4th April 2017, 04:32 PM   #385
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IIRC, 30 went to jail for Watergate.

Quote:
Pressed by Blitzer as to whether he has seen “hard evidence of collusion” or could confirm the people in question advised Trump during the campaign or currently work for the administration, Castro said he couldn’t comment further, but reiterated his previous prediction. “As you can imagine, Wolf, I’ll have to comment on that later. But again… my impression is that people will probably be charged and I think people will probably go to jail,” the congressman said.
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Old 4th April 2017, 04:51 PM   #386
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
From the article:
Quote:
Former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn has agreed to appear only if he receives criminal immunity.
I hope they subpoena his ass and make him take the fifth. It would be delicious. But unlikely.
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Old 4th April 2017, 06:26 PM   #387
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Skeptical, but hoping.
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Old 4th April 2017, 07:00 PM   #388
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
More Russian connections from Rachel Maddow.

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Just a coincidence, I'm sure.
I mean, just because an entire US administration is in bed with Putin doesn't mean actual copulation occurred. Haven't any of you McCarthyists ever heard of cuddling?? Sad.
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Old 4th April 2017, 07:06 PM   #389
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Skeptical, but hoping.
How would you feel if it really​ came out that nothing untoward was done by anybody?
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Old 4th April 2017, 07:23 PM   #390
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Shocking Claim by Texas Representative and member of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, Joaquín Castro (D).

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About 4 mins in.....

“I guess I would say this: My impression is, I wouldn’t be surprised after all of this is said and done, that some people end up in jail.”
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Old 4th April 2017, 07:26 PM   #391
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
The Pentagon papers and Snowden leaks are examples of reporters gaining access to primary documents. ....
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
And Watergate coverage was heavily based on private conversations with anonymous sources. When somebody's actively trying to do something wrong, he's not going to create much documentation.
Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
I mean, just because an entire US administration is in bed with Putin doesn't mean actual copulation occurred. Haven't any of you McCarthyists ever heard of cuddling?? Sad.

Just seemed like these posts needed to be seen together.
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Old 4th April 2017, 07:59 PM   #392
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
How would you feel if it really​ came out that nothing untoward was done by anybody?
I would be satisfied if such a thing came out by an independent investigation. Of course, the fact that Trump and the Republicans do not want an independent investigation sends a message that there is something to hide. I could understand a case against an investigation led by Democrats (like the Republicans did with Benghazi), but that's not was Democrats are calling for.

It is telling how Republicans like investigations led by Republicans and Democrats like investigations led by independent bodies. Why is that so?
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Old 4th April 2017, 08:10 PM   #393
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
I would be satisfied
Cool
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Old 4th April 2017, 10:17 PM   #394
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
How would you feel if it really​ came out that nothing untoward was done by anybody?
"Came out" to my satisfaction or the investigation stalled out while the congressional PTB declared unqualified victory?
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Old 4th April 2017, 10:30 PM   #395
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Cool
Are you expecting a Hilary Clinton style not stone unturned investigation or an investigation lite?
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Old 5th April 2017, 12:49 AM   #396
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How and why did formerly sane and logical skeptics in this thread - many who I've read for years tearing down nonsense - fall victim to Trump Derangement Syndrome?

"..just because an entire US administration is in bed with Putin.."

Never before on this forum, in any other section, have I seen so many unsupported, outlandish, baseless or simply delusional assertions. On any other topic in any other section the very same people here would be rightfully jumping all over a poster who made such unsupported statements. Evidence would be demanded, logic bombs would be dropped, poster of nonsense would be exposed, retreat or feel like a fool.

"You wouldn't be the first person putting out the false narrative that collusion has been disproved because it has yet to be proved. You do know the difference, right?

Ah, so now that's how it works here. Not any other previous topic, ever, anywhere on the forum- but now it is up to someone to disprove your guesses/hopes/imagination/evidence-free ideas. It is apparently no longer up to the person making the claim to provide the supporting evidence. And, until it is disproven (as it must be now in this apparently special circumstance), all outcomes are equal and evidence-free ideas are equally valid. Yep, makes sense, always how it's been here.

"Guess you'll have to wait for the FBI to complete their investigation, that is if Trump doesn't try to snuff out the investigation. And I'm surprised he hasn't already."

And if/when the investigation is concluded and there is still no basis for the "collusion" CT you will simply claim Trump snuffed it out/pressured the FBI and that it still a totally valid and real accusation.

There is no scenario where some of you will be satisfied there was no collusion. It will just turn in to more sad version of 911 Truth, where only you know what "really" happened but everyone is covering it up. I wish I could find some of Gingers past posts on people starting with a conclusion and then finding "evidence" to support it.

There's a lot to look at and it should be looked at, it's just a shame emotions and political leanings have taken the place of logic for some here. Your dislike of many aspects of the guy has shaken the smarts right out of you. Not a good look.
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Old 5th April 2017, 01:08 AM   #397
thaiboxerken
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Originally Posted by intlman View Post
How and why did formerly sane and logical skeptics in this thread.............snip...........
Your denial does not impress anyone in a skeptics forum.

Trump has, and continues to, try to snuff out investigations into the Russian affair and there is plenty of evidence of this. It is strange that you think you can actually trick people into disbelieving their lying eyes.
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Old 5th April 2017, 01:10 AM   #398
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Originally Posted by intlman View Post
How and why did formerly sane and logical skeptics in this thread - many who I've read for years tearing down nonsense - fall victim to Trump Derangement Syndrome?

"..just because an entire US administration is in bed with Putin.."

Never before on this forum, in any other section, have I seen so many unsupported, outlandish, baseless or simply delusional assertions. On any other topic in any other section the very same people here would be rightfully jumping all over a poster who made such unsupported statements. Evidence would be demanded, logic bombs would be dropped, poster of nonsense would be exposed, retreat or feel like a fool.

"You wouldn't be the first person putting out the false narrative that collusion has been disproved because it has yet to be proved. You do know the difference, right?

Ah, so now that's how it works here. Not any other previous topic, ever, anywhere on the forum- but now it is up to someone to disprove your guesses/hopes/imagination/evidence-free ideas. It is apparently no longer up to the person making the claim to provide the supporting evidence. And, until it is disproven (as it must be now in this apparently special circumstance), all outcomes are equal and evidence-free ideas are equally valid. Yep, makes sense, always how it's been here.

"Guess you'll have to wait for the FBI to complete their investigation, that is if Trump doesn't try to snuff out the investigation. And I'm surprised he hasn't already."

And if/when the investigation is concluded and there is still no basis for the "collusion" CT you will simply claim Trump snuffed it out/pressured the FBI and that it still a totally valid and real accusation.

There is no scenario where some of you will be satisfied there was no collusion. It will just turn in to more sad version of 911 Truth, where only you know what "really" happened but everyone is covering it up. I wish I could find some of Gingers past posts on people starting with a conclusion and then finding "evidence" to support it.

There's a lot to look at and it should be looked at, it's just a shame emotions and political leanings have taken the place of logic for some here. Your dislike of many aspects of the guy has shaken the smarts right out of you. Not a good look.
You're right, we should just drop it. I mean, who cares if the Trump campaign really conspired with Russia, as evidence suggests? You don't want it to be true, so therefore we can safely disregard the evidence that points to it, and simply forget about the many incidents. That's the skeptical thing to do.
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Old 5th April 2017, 01:29 AM   #399
intlman
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
You're right, we should just drop it. I mean, who cares if the Trump campaign really conspired with Russia, as evidence suggests? You don't want it to be true, so therefore we can safely disregard the evidence that points to it, and simply forget about the many incidents. That's the skeptical thing to do.
Try again-

Originally Posted by intlman View Post

There's a lot to look at and it should be looked at
The emotional reaction is so strong that you completely fabricate what "I want", because anyone who isn't actively bashing Trump must surely be in full support of him and want to put fingers in ears.

And, evidence doesn't "suggest" a Trump conspiracy with Russia - not even a little.

See? this is what I mean. It is now taken as fact, despite zero actual evidence or anything approaching it. Zero.
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Old 5th April 2017, 01:32 AM   #400
intlman
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Your denial does not impress anyone in a skeptics forum.
I don't know what this is in reply to.

What am I "denying"? There is nothing here to deny, and I haven't denied anything in my post.


Quote:
Trump has, and continues to, try to snuff out investigations into the Russian affair and there is plenty of evidence of this. It is strange that you think you can actually trick people into disbelieving their lying eyes.
Nope, still no evidence of "snuffing out investigations".

Still no evidence of Russia collusion.

Turn off Rachel Maddow perhaps.

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