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Tags donald trump , Jeff Sessions , Robert Mueller , Rod Rosenstein , Russia conspiracies , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections

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Old 17th May 2017, 06:52 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
This is what the regulation says:



https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...00_17&rgn=div8
Sessions gives Mueller a few months and then unilaterally declares the investigation hasn't found anything and thanks, Mr. Mueller, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
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Old 17th May 2017, 06:52 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
He should. But he's very, very, stupid.

You know what scares the bleep out of me? "President Pence". Trump, for all his multitude of faults, is at least not a fundie.
Lol
Not only that, the establishment loves him. Either way your side is still screwed.
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Old 17th May 2017, 06:53 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
For this situation, substitute "Deputy Attorney General" since Sessions recused himself from this case.
Yep.
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Old 17th May 2017, 06:53 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
This is what the regulation says:



https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...00_17&rgn=div8
And if the AG has had to recuse himself for potential conflict of interests? Does this fall to his subordinate (just as appointing the Counsel did) or does Beauregard step out of recusaldom (again) to do the borking?
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Old 17th May 2017, 06:54 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
For this situation, substitute "Deputy Attorney General" since Sessions recused himself from this case.
Sessions will unrecuse himself. Who's going to stop him?
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Old 17th May 2017, 06:54 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Sessions gives Mueller a few months and then unilaterally declares the investigation hasn't found anything and thanks, Mr. Mueller, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Except Sessions recused himself. Which is why Rosenstein was able to do it.
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Old 17th May 2017, 06:54 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
And if the AG has had to recuse himself for potential conflict of interests? Does this fall to his subordinate (just as appointing the Counsel did) or does Beauregard step out of recusaldom (again) to do the borking?
It should fall to the Deputy AG but, since the recusal was voluntary, Sessions is still legally clear to do what he will.
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Old 17th May 2017, 06:56 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Sessions will unrecuse himself. Who's going to stop him?
If he wants to make it really clear that he's obstructing justice.
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Old 17th May 2017, 06:57 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
If he wants to make it really clear that he's obstructing justice.
Who is going to prosecute him? A Republican Congress? Not a chance.
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Old 17th May 2017, 06:59 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Who is going to prosecute him? A Republican Congress? Not a chance.
He's not going to be the Attorney General forever.
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Old 17th May 2017, 07:06 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
He's not going to be the Attorney General forever.
True, but the way things are going he might be the last.
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Old 17th May 2017, 07:08 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Sessions gives Mueller a few months and then unilaterally declares the investigation hasn't found anything and thanks, Mr. Mueller, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
You think there won't be incriminating evidence that includes Sessions by that time?
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Old 17th May 2017, 07:09 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Who is going to prosecute him? A Republican Congress? Not a chance.
Actually, I'm not so sure about that. They are interested in what is best for their party. Allowing this total screwup take them down with him can't be attractive. Most of them would trade Pence for Trump in a heartbeat.
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Old 17th May 2017, 07:13 PM   #54
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I figured it was a matter of time before Trump came head to head with a coalition of law-and-order types who eat, drink, and breathe notions of justice and who's sphincters tighten at every whiff of impropriety in a public office.

I felt like the end of Comey's letter had some of that shading to it:

Quote:
It is very hard to leave a group of people who are committed only to doing the right thing. My hope is that you will continue to live our values and the mission of protecting the American people and upholding the Constitution.

If you do that, you too will be sad when you leave, and the American people will be safer.
Mueller-Rosenstein-Comey is apparently that faction, and likely represents a great deal more. I heard those same phrases repeated in quotes all over the place over the next few days. When Sessions recused himself, Trump could no longer shield himself from a hostile DOJ (if needed). It seems like they were willing to leave things alone as long as the FBI investigation went unmolested. When Trump fired Comey, that was too much. Rosenstein very cunningly danced around the recent possible classified intel divulgence to Russia, and at the time I spat a little venom at him for the evasiveness. However, with hindsight it's very likely he had to in order to avoid either a) knowingly lying and thus making himself a co-conspirator or b) resigning in protest and thus losing the legal authority to enact a response. Appointing a special prosecutor is essentially Rosenstein recusing himself now, as well as moving the investigation further from (now proven) potential Trump interference. The DOJ itself is going to be under investigation given how deep Sessions is involved.

If they really got their ducks in a row, Comey has probably told Mueller exactly which FBI agents/units to fold into the Special Prosecutor's office and the investigation continues without having to start all over.

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Old 17th May 2017, 07:14 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Actually, I'm not so sure about that. They are interested in what is best for their party. Allowing this total screwup take them down with him can't be attractive. Most of them would trade Pence for Trump in a heartbeat.
He's a Republican president. A lot of Republicans don't care about anything but that, they won't impeach one of their own even if he is an idiot and an embarrassment. It would take something immense for them to impeach him and I'm not sure taking bribes from Russia is big enough for them.
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Old 17th May 2017, 07:19 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You think there won't be incriminating evidence that includes Sessions by that time?
That's reason that Sessions would get rid of Mueller even sooner. Remember you have a president who is used to getting his way no matter what. And I think he has an AG in Sessions who will do whatever Trump wants. Trivialities like obstruction of justice and bribery are for the little people not Donald J Trump.
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Old 17th May 2017, 07:20 PM   #57
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I will be very shocked if Sessions gets rid of Mueller.
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Old 17th May 2017, 07:21 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
I will be very shocked if Sessions gets rid of Mueller.
You are aware that Session's boss is Trump. After these first three months, I'm not sure anything is going to shock me.
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Old 17th May 2017, 07:29 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
You are aware that Session's boss is Trump. After these first three months, I'm not sure anything is going to shock me.
So Trump is going to demand that Sessions unrecuse himself and fire Mueller?

I hope he's that stupid.

The only move Trump has is to hope that Mueller doesn't find anything on him.
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Old 17th May 2017, 07:33 PM   #60
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http://www.speaker.gov/press-release...robert-mueller

Quote:
My priority has been to ensure thorough and independent investigations are allowed to follow the facts wherever they may lead. That is what we’ve been doing here in the House. The addition of Robert Mueller as special counsel is consistent with this goal, and I welcome his role at the Department of Justice. The important ongoing bipartisan investigation in the House will also continue.
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Old 17th May 2017, 07:42 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
He's a Republican president. A lot of Republicans don't care about anything but that, they won't impeach one of their own even if he is an idiot and an embarrassment. It would take something immense for them to impeach him and I'm not sure taking bribes from Russia is big enough for them.
He WAS a lifelong Democrat until he discovered birtherism. And maybe you missed the last 18 months. Trump may have been rank and file Republicans choice but he was never the choice of the Republican leaders. If they can get rid of him in the next 4 to 6 months the hit next November may not be so bad.

Either way, their choices aren't good.
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Old 17th May 2017, 08:32 PM   #62
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I don't think Trump or Sessions are going to be able to quash this at this point. Hell, they couldn't quash it earlier when there was less evidence evident.
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Old 17th May 2017, 08:49 PM   #63
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In my mind, the two key figures who may be in the FBI's crosshairs are Flynn and Manafort.

Probably not so much Trump himself, except maybe insofar as that "private discussion" he had with Comey might be seen as improper.

Weird that he would ask Pence and Sessions to leave the room so there were no other witnesses.
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Old 17th May 2017, 08:51 PM   #64
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Pence probably can't believe his luck.
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Old 17th May 2017, 08:55 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Pence probably can't believe his luck.
Are you kidding? When he signed on, he was thinking "Six months, tops!"
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Old 17th May 2017, 08:56 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
He was the the Director of the FBI from 2001-2013.

He and Comey (then Deputy Attorney General) made the White House back down from their attempts at warrantless wiretapping back in 2004.

This is really bad for Trump. I feel confident that Mueller will prosecute any crimes he uncovers.
Maybe it's really good for Trump. A man of sterling reputation will lead the investigation. When no evidence of wrongdoing is found, Trump can point to the investigation as proof of the value of his good name.


Of course, that's just one possibility for the future. Other possibilities don't end as well for Trump.
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Old 17th May 2017, 08:58 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
In my mind, the two key figures who may be in the FBI's crosshairs are Flynn and Manafort.
Nixon wasn't in the crosshairs at the beginning, but he managed to put himself in them by his conduct.

I suspect Trump will do the same, having learned nothing from history. However, to be fair, we don't have proof of that yet.
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Old 17th May 2017, 09:24 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
Deputy attorney general appoints special counsel to oversee probe of Russian interference in election
http://wapo.st/2pVno3F

ETA: Special council is former FBI Director Robert Mueller.

Trump is **********.

I'm glad and expect additional negative information against Trump as the investigation continues.
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Old 17th May 2017, 09:53 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Pence probably can't believe his luck.
I don't see how Pence can get out of this unscathed: Flynn is going to throw him under the bus in return for some leniency.
There seems to be a lot of evidence that Pence knew full well that Flynn was under investigation when he hired him, but he lied about it - not really keeping up his part of the Oath of Office either.
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Old 17th May 2017, 10:21 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I don't see how Pence can get out of this unscathed: Flynn is going to throw him under the bus in return for some leniency.
There seems to be a lot of evidence that Pence knew full well that Flynn was under investigation when he hired him, but he lied about it - not really keeping up his part of the Oath of Office either.
We can hope.
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Old 17th May 2017, 10:25 PM   #71
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If Pence becomes president because of this, he will probably be essentially a lame duck. He won't get much done, and it isn't even guaranteed he would be the nominee in 2020.
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Old 17th May 2017, 11:21 PM   #72
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Excellent choice. He will not be bullied or intimidated or rushed to conclude. Trump has reason to worry.
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Old 17th May 2017, 11:29 PM   #73
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Good political move, now all the Trump administration should say is "No comment, there is an active investigation so lets wait for the results of that".
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Old 17th May 2017, 11:37 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Good political move, now all the Trump administration should say is "No comment, there is an active investigation so lets wait for the results of that".
Given Trump's pugilistic disposition, I don't think he has the discipline to stay quiet for more than a week, tops.
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Old 18th May 2017, 01:14 AM   #75
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Does this mean I can move back from Canada?
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Old 18th May 2017, 01:35 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I don't see how Pence can get out of this unscathed: Flynn is going to throw him under the bus in return for some leniency.
There seems to be a lot of evidence that Pence knew full well that Flynn was under investigation when he hired him, but he lied about it - not really keeping up his part of the Oath of Office either.

Flynn told Trump's transition team counsel Jan 4 he was under FBI investigation

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/17/u...iser.html?_r=0
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Old 18th May 2017, 03:02 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Watergate.
I wish I could find what podcast I heard it on but someone made a good case that the better comparison is the Iran-Contra affair. Nefarious actors take advantage of a President (Candidate) with diminished capacity to make a an illegal deal with a foreign power and the parties align along partisan lines over how it should or should not be investigated. This leaves us looking for to years of Dems attempting to investigate and Reps obstructing.
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Old 18th May 2017, 03:26 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by chrispy View Post
To the Americans on the board,what is the vibe on the street in your various necks of the woods?
Politics has been such a hot button issue since the Trump election that no one wants to talk about it. As such, there is no vibe.
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Old 18th May 2017, 03:35 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Pence probably can't believe his luck.
The Flynn affair might be his undoing. It's getting harder and harder to believe he was in the dark about how compromised Flynn was.
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Old 18th May 2017, 05:30 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Given Trump's pugilistic disposition, I don't think he has the discipline to stay quiet for more than a week, tops.
Not even a day. He's back on Twitter complaining about witch hunts.
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