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Tags donald trump , Jeff Sessions , Robert Mueller , Rod Rosenstein , Russia conspiracies , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections

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Old 18th May 2017, 01:41 PM   #161
logger
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Trump told Flynn to, "Stay strong," which is exactly what Nixon told Haldeman IIRC.
Wow, that is so Suspicious!
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Old 18th May 2017, 03:54 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
...except Nixon has a lot more brains...
...despite being dead for several decades.


Edited by Agatha:  Edited to fix quote tags
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Last edited by Agatha; 19th May 2017 at 02:04 PM.
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Old 18th May 2017, 03:55 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
...despite being dead for several decades.
Edit fail. Can't fix it on Tapatalk.
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Old 18th May 2017, 04:47 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Yes, that will win over the former democrats! You clearly haven't a clue!

Another reason your side lost.
'My' side? You clearly don't have a clue what my side is!
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Old 18th May 2017, 05:37 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
'My' side? You clearly don't have a clue what my side is!
Silly Roger. You aren't specifically and enthusiastically on Logger's side, that's all that matters.
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Old 18th May 2017, 05:49 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Next up would be Ryan.

House majority leader to colleagues in 2016: ‘I think Putin pays’ Trump

Quote:
“There’s two people I think Putin pays: Rohrabacher and Trump,” McCarthy (R-Calif.) said, according to a recording of the June 15, 2016, exchange, which was listened to and verified by The Washington Post. Rep. Dana Rohrabacher is a Californian Republican known in Congress as a fervent defender of Putin and Russia.

House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) immediately interjected, stopping the conversation from further exploring McCarthy’s assertion, and swore the Republicans present to secrecy.

Before the conversation, McCarthy and Ryan had emerged from separate talks at the Capitol with Ukrainian Prime Minister Vladimir Groysman, who had described a Kremlin tactic of financing populist politicians to undercut Eastern European democratic institutions.
Oops...

So then it would fall to Orrin Hatch.

Last edited by Delphic Oracle; 18th May 2017 at 05:52 PM.
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Old 18th May 2017, 06:20 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
If it were anybody but trump, I would say he's acting like he's guilty, but I think Trump is easily dumb enough to try to conduct a coverup of a non-existent crime.
That brings the interesting question: would a coverup of a non-existing crime be a crime itself? Would it count as obstruction of justice?

Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
I can see Trump trying to coverup a nonexistent crime. Maybe he decides to destroy documents, tamper with witnesses, ect not for any specific reason but because he thinks it is the cautious move. Or maybe he gets super paranoid and decides that unless he takes drastic measures, that he's going be framed by the special prosecutor.
That's a very real possibility. Remember, in the 3,000 lawsuits in his private career, he routinely destroyed evidence that even was already demanded in discovery.
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Old 18th May 2017, 06:34 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
That brings the interesting question: would a coverup of a non-existing crime be a crime itself? Would it count as obstruction of justice?
Obstruction of justice/illegally interfering with an investigation doesn't require an underlying crime by the person doing the obstructing. It doesn't even require the guilt of the person(s) being investigated. In other words, the FBI/Special Counsel could find that Flynn was guilty of no federal crime (or at least none that can be prosecuted) while anyone believed to have obstructed the investigation (or perhaps even attempted to do so) could still be prosecuted.

Also, the rules on impeachment are sufficiently vague ("high crimes and misdemeanors") that there could be insufficient evidence to prosecute a President for obstruction, but the Congress could still find that same President guilty of abusing their authority, and that this is sufficient cause to remove that President from office.

Last edited by Babbylonian; 18th May 2017 at 06:35 PM.
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Old 18th May 2017, 06:51 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
I sure as hell hope your side keeps thinking that?

Let's take a look back into history.


Quote:
Why I Will Not Cast My Electoral Vote for Donald Trump

DALLAS — I am a Republican presidential elector, one of the 538 people asked to choose officially the president of the United States. Since the election, people have asked me to change my vote based on policy disagreements with Donald J. Trump. In some cases, they cite the popular vote difference. I do not think presidents-elect should be disqualified for policy disagreements. I do not think they should be disqualified because they won the Electoral College instead of the popular vote. However, now I am asked to cast a vote on Dec. 19 for someone who shows daily he is not qualified for the office.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/05/o...rump.html?_r=0
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Old 18th May 2017, 06:54 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Obstruction of justice/illegally interfering with an investigation doesn't require an underlying crime by the person doing the obstructing. It doesn't even require the guilt of the person(s) being investigated. In other words, the FBI/Special Counsel could find that Flynn was guilty of no federal crime (or at least none that can be prosecuted) while anyone believed to have obstructed the investigation (or perhaps even attempted to do so) could still be prosecuted.

Also, the rules on impeachment are sufficiently vague ("high crimes and misdemeanors") that there could be insufficient evidence to prosecute a President for obstruction, but the Congress could still find that same President guilty of abusing their authority, and that this is sufficient cause to remove that President from office.
I think it's cute that ANYONE doesn’t believe there is a crime behind this. Not that it will be proved. But that there was criminal activity at least by Flynn that Trump was trying to prevent coming to light.

Frankly, Trump’s behavior has been disgusting and dangerous. His total disrespect for the Constitution and the rule of law makes me I'll. That he requested Comey or anyone in law enforcement to swear loyalty to him is an assault on America. And reason enough to show him the door.
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Old 18th May 2017, 11:07 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
And can we have ponies that shoot rainbows out of their butts too?



By the way, I love your new avatar. I have that movie on DVD.
They only have those on Mars:



Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Why is Trump having lunch with the enemy of the American people?
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Old 18th May 2017, 11:38 PM   #172
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What Donald Trump Needs to Know About Bob Mueller and Jim Comey

The short of it is that Mueller is about the last person that Trump would want investigating him unless he is is innocent. Muller will take the job very seriously and conduct a thorough investigation aimed at find the facts. And if the facts support criminal charges against anyone in the administration, he pursue them because he actually cares deeply about doing the right thing.

If Trump is guilty, he should be scared ********. Though he's probably delusional enough to not really be worried.
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Old 19th May 2017, 07:22 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
What Donald Trump Needs to Know About Bob Mueller and Jim Comey

The short of it is that Mueller is about the last person that Trump would want investigating him unless he is is innocent. Muller will take the job very seriously and conduct a thorough investigation aimed at find the facts. And if the facts support criminal charges against anyone in the administration, he pursue them because he actually cares deeply about doing the right thing.

If Trump is guilty, he should be scared ********. Though he's probably delusional enough to not really be worried.
Trump doesn't recognize the fact that anything he does could possibly be wrong. Whether or not it's illegal or not is irrelevant to him. He's never wrong so there's no way it could be illegal.
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Old 19th May 2017, 07:34 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
Real life is crazier than House of Cards.



I wouldn't pop it quite yet but this is very bad for Trump. This could easily destroy his presidency. He should be scared.
Psychopaths don't scare easily. If he shows palpapable fear we'll know he's only about a 32 on the 40 scale of psychopathy.
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Old 19th May 2017, 07:42 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Pence probably can't believe his luck.
Who is the greater fool - the Fool, or the fool who follows him?
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Old 19th May 2017, 07:48 AM   #176
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Pence may be more screwed than Trump with regard to collusion with Russia and Flynn.
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Old 19th May 2017, 07:48 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Scammed? Was I suppose to support hillary? You haven't a clue about politics!
Yes. You were supposed to support the lesser of the available evils. You failed.

You were supposed to resist the Russian disinformation/indoctrination campaign. You didn't even try.
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Old 19th May 2017, 07:50 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
Pence may be more screwed than Trump with regard to collusion with Russia and Flynn.
Sargent Schultz? Say it ain't so!
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Old 19th May 2017, 07:54 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Sargent Schultz? Say it ain't so!
Look, anytime you can combine Phil Donahue's silver helmet with one facial expression that looks like a puckered anus, you've got yourself a winner.
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Old 19th May 2017, 08:12 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Obstruction of justice/illegally interfering with an investigation doesn't require an underlying crime by the person doing the obstructing. It doesn't even require the guilt of the person(s) being investigated. In other words, the FBI/Special Counsel could find that Flynn was guilty of no federal crime (or at least none that can be prosecuted) while anyone believed to have obstructed the investigation (or perhaps even attempted to do so) could still be prosecuted.

Also, the rules on impeachment are sufficiently vague ("high crimes and misdemeanors") that there could be insufficient evidence to prosecute a President for obstruction, but the Congress could still find that same President guilty of abusing their authority, and that this is sufficient cause to remove that President from office.
Fair enough. But impeachment is only part of the process; it's about the removal from office of a federal officer. If I understand correctly, that same person - be it Trump, or Pence, or anyone else in this executive - could afterwards also be indicted in a normal criminal court. If they couldn't, what was Ford's pardon of Nixon about?
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Old 19th May 2017, 08:15 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
Fair enough. But impeachment is only part of the process; it's about the removal from office of a federal officer. If I understand correctly, that same person - be it Trump, or Pence, or anyone else in this executive - could afterwards also be indicted in a normal criminal court. If they couldn't, what was Ford's pardon of Nixon about?
Of course. I was only addressing the fact that there need not be a prosecutable crime underlying charges of obstruction of justice or impeachment proceedings.
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Old 19th May 2017, 09:42 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by Toontown View Post

You were supposed to resist the Russian disinformation/indoctrination campaign.
Which is?
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Old 19th May 2017, 02:07 PM   #183
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Mod Warning The little derail about building a wall has gone to AAH. It wasn't sufficiently focused to make a standalone thread but participants are free to post their thoughts on border walls in an appropriate thread.
Posted By:Agatha
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Old 19th May 2017, 02:22 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
Fair enough. But impeachment is only part of the process; it's about the removal from office of a federal officer. If I understand correctly, that same person - be it Trump, or Pence, or anyone else in this executive - could afterwards also be indicted in a normal criminal court. If they couldn't, what was Ford's pardon of Nixon about?
It depends on if what they did was a civil crime.You can be impeached and removed from office for offenses that are not punishable under statue law. If Trump was impeached and convicted for Abuse of Power, he would probably not be indictable. If he was impeached and removed for Obstruction of Justice, he would be.
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Old 19th May 2017, 02:38 PM   #185
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And it just gets worse with every new development:

Trump: Firing 'nut job' FBI chief 'eased pressure'

Quote:
US President Donald Trump told Russian officials that firing FBI director James Comey eased "great pressure" on him, US media report.
Citing a document summarising the meeting in the Oval Office last week, the New York Times said Mr Trump called Mr Comey a "real nut job".
Yes he discussed the Comey firing with the Russians...
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Old 21st May 2017, 02:23 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
You were supposed to resist the Russian disinformation/indoctrination campaign. You didn't even try.
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Which is?


http://time.com/magazine/us/4783906/...189-no-20-u-s/

This is merely a rote cite. Not kidding myself that you'll read it. Nor should you kid yourself that Russia is on your "side".

The article is a preview of coming attractions, so that's why I'm memorializing it here.
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Old 21st May 2017, 02:28 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
It depends on if what they did was a civil crime.You can be impeached and removed from office for offenses that are not punishable under statue law. If Trump was impeached and convicted for Abuse of Power, he would probably not be indictable. If he was impeached and removed for Obstruction of Justice, he would be.
Yeah, the Constitution doesn't spell out what constitutes a 'high crime'.
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Old 21st May 2017, 03:22 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Yeah, the Constitution doesn't spell out what constitutes a 'high crime'.
Which was entirely intentional, since the primary purpose of impeachment is to allow the people's representatives to oust a President whom they deem to be unacceptable, for whatever reason they choose.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 04:32 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
If we start throwing politicians in prison for lying we might as well switch back to monarchy.

It isn't about lying, which many politicians and most conservative ones feel is part of their job description.

It's about perjury, a crime which is (or at least used to be) heinous enough to warrant the impeachment of Bill Clinton for denying that he had a BJ from a consenting adult.

(A denial which in other circumstances, it bears pointing out, would have been considered the gentlemanly thing to do by most people of his generation.)

I suppose that to Republicans lying under oath about a perfectly legal (and dare I say quite common) act conducted in privacy between two consenting adults is far more egregious than lying under oath about potentially criminal acts, but that's just how they roll.

I'm quite sure that their politics and ideology (not to mention their all-consuming lust for power at the expense of the entire country and anything even faintly resembling personal integrity) have nothing whatsoever to do with this seemingly contradictory application of what, for them, constitutes standards.

At least, I'm sure that's what their defenders will say.
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Old 24th May 2017, 07:17 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by Garrette View Post
Your first point is true and something the anti-Trump crowd (and I am part of it) needs to be prepared for. I have said to others who crowed about Mueller's appointment that they were conditioning their joy on the assumption that Mueller will find nasty stuff that brings about Trump's downfall, but it is entirely possible he will not. If that is the case, we must be willing to accept it as a vindication of Trump. Of course, that assumes an absence of shenanigans that bring the investigation itself into doubt, and that's a rabbit hole I do not want to go down.
I think a murkier, middle-muddle is the most likely outcome. There won't be a provable quid pro quo so the Justice Department will not be able to prove collusion and thus charges against Trump will not be filed. So Trump/Republicans will bleat about that for a looooong time. On the other hand, there will be evidence of coordination or cooperation or whatever noun is chosen to show that the Russians did play a "significant" role in the election. Which the Dems will bleat about louder and louder as we approach November, 2018. Maybe some underlings will face doing some time in the Big House.
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Old 24th May 2017, 07:19 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
If we start throwing politicians in prison for lying we might as well switch back to monarchy.
Depends on what the meaning of "is" is.
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Old 24th May 2017, 07:25 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
There couldn't be any more normal person than Pence.
Bhwawawawawawawaw! logger made a funny.

Pence was born 300 years too late. He would have made a great Puritan: straight-laced, prudish to a fault, a god-botherer with the best of them. In the 21st century, the best you can about him is that he is an anachronism.
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Old 24th May 2017, 07:40 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Here's someone who thinks that the appointment of a special counsel will help Trump to conceal important questions. Some of Trump's worst misconduct may not be provably criminal, which is what the SC will focus on.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...owe-it/527187/
Frum's a sane Republican. I think he's worth listening to.
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Old 24th May 2017, 07:42 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Edit fail. Can't fix it on Tapatalk.
How appropriate for a Trump thread. The fault is always somewhere else.

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Old 25th May 2017, 05:09 AM   #195
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Priebus called Comey to swat down Russia scandal. Now he's worried he's in the memos.

Quote:
President Donald Trump isn’t the only one in the White House who could be caught in a compromising position by James Comey’s secret memos. The president’s chief of staff is worried he could be soon in the crosshairs, as well.

Comey, the former FBI director who was fired earlier this month by Trump, took detailed notes of his interactions with the president and senior Trump administration officials in order to properly document conversations that were on the verge of improper.
Advertisement

Three White House officials told The Daily Beast that Chief of Staff Reince Priebus has privately expressed worry about a possible Comey memo specifically involving one of their reported chats, and how it might play in the press and to investigators.

“Nervous laughter,” one official succinctly characterized Priebus’ demeanor in the midst of recent revelations.
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Old 25th May 2017, 12:28 PM   #196
quadraginta
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Priebus called Comey to swat down Russia scandal. Now he's worried he's in the memos.
Quote:
President Donald Trump isn’t the only one in the White House who could be caught in a compromising position by James Comey’s secret memos. The president’s chief of staff is worried he could be soon in the crosshairs, as well.

<snip>


Why characterize them as "secret" memos? Should he have been posting about them on Facebook every day?

It seems like plenty of people knew it was something he did routinely when he felt it might be needful.

I don't think it's that much of an altogether uncommon practice.

Maybe more people should be doing it.
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Old 25th May 2017, 12:35 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Why characterize them as "secret" memos? Should he have been posting about them on Facebook every day?

It seems like plenty of people knew it was something he did routinely when he felt it might be needful.

I don't think it's that much of an altogether uncommon practice.

Maybe more people should be doing it.
Oh yes it is when you're talking about law enforcement and investigations. Priebus knows better to get within a mile of that.
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Old 25th May 2017, 12:41 PM   #198
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FBI tells House Oversight Chairman Chaffetz it won't yet hand over Comey's Trump memos because of the Mueller Special Counsel appointment
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Old 25th May 2017, 12:46 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
What, no copy machine at the FBI?
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Old 12th June 2017, 04:25 PM   #200
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Chris Ruddy: Trump is considering firing special counsel Mueller, who he considered for another position.
He's considering the full Nixon.
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