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Tags donald trump , Jeff Sessions , obstruction of justice , Robert Mueller , Rod Rosenstein , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections

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Old 15th June 2017, 07:31 AM   #281
Eddie Dane
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
Frank Underwood is way smarter than Trump.
Underwood understands the levers of power, Trump just sits his fat butt down on the switchboard.
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Old 15th June 2017, 07:31 AM   #282
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It is also a dumb argument that the collusion campaign collapsed​. To this day we don't know if Nixon conspired on the break in. I won't defend our obstruction laws, but they probably partly exist to get around the difficulty of charging certain crimes.
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Old 15th June 2017, 07:51 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
It is also a dumb argument that the collusion campaign collapsed​. To this day we don't know if Nixon conspired on the break in. I won't defend our obstruction laws, but they probably partly exist to get around the difficulty of charging certain crimes.
Yeah because otherwise obstructing justice is completely acceptable.
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Old 15th June 2017, 08:17 AM   #284
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
It is also a dumb argument that the collusion campaign collapsed​. To this day we don't know if Nixon conspired on the break in. I won't defend our obstruction laws, but they probably partly exist to get around the difficulty of charging certain crimes.
Just in case it escaped your fine eye for detail, but it should be illegal for anyone (including a president) to obstruct an investigation into an illegal activity.

Otherwise, then every criminal who has an investigation pending against him will be quite motivated obstruct that investigation in order to keep out of legal trouble.
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Old 15th June 2017, 08:34 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Just in case it escaped your fine eye for detail, but it should be illegal for anyone (including a president) to obstruct an investigation into an illegal activity.

Otherwise, then every criminal who has an investigation pending against him will be quite motivated obstruct that investigation in order to keep out of legal trouble.
Should is a value judgement I am not joining you on.
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Old 15th June 2017, 08:48 AM   #286
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Should is a value judgement I am not joining you on.
Make sure to tell that the judge that the word "should" is a value judgement when you go to court for exceeding the speed limit which you should have followed.
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Old 15th June 2017, 08:50 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Make sure to tell that the judge that the word "should" is a value judgement when you go to court for exceeding the speed limit which you should have followed.
The existence of a lot of laws are based on the value judgements of the people that enacted them. I don't see why that judge would disagree.
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Old 15th June 2017, 08:54 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Make sure to tell that the judge that the word "should" is a value judgement when you go to court for exceeding the speed limit which you should have followed.
Well, it is a value judgment.
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Old 15th June 2017, 08:56 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
The existence of a lot of laws are based on the value judgements of the people that enacted them. I don't see why that judge would disagree.
So fine.

Make sure to use your definition for the word "should" and let us know how that works as a legal defense.
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Old 15th June 2017, 08:57 AM   #290
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
So fine.

Make sure to use your definition for the word "should" and let us know how that works as a legal defense.
That has nothing to do with what Bob said, Crossbow. He disagreed with the thought that it should be illegal, not that it's enforced when it is.
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Old 15th June 2017, 09:01 AM   #291
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
So fine.

Make sure to use your definition for the word "should" and let us know how that works as a legal defense.
I never argued it was a legal defense or a defense at all. I think we all understand that we can still be found guilty of laws we disagree with.
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Old 15th June 2017, 09:34 AM   #292
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I never argued it was a legal defense or a defense at all. I think we all understand that we can still be found guilty of laws we disagree with.
As is so often the case, you are backpedaling again.

You argued "I won't defend our obstruction laws, but they probably partly exist to get around the difficulty of charging certain crimes.".

And now you say that you never were arguing a legal defense.
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Old 15th June 2017, 09:35 AM   #293
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
That has nothing to do with what Bob said, Crossbow. He disagreed with the thought that it should be illegal, not that it's enforced when it is.
I can seldom figure what Bob is saying since he changes his arguments so often.
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Old 15th June 2017, 09:52 AM   #294
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
As is so often the case, you are backpedaling again.

You argued "I won't defend our obstruction laws, but they probably partly exist to get around the difficulty of charging certain crimes.".

And now you say that you never were arguing a legal defense.
I was arguing a legal offense. The laws were probably found to be very useful to get a person where proving they committed the main crime is difficult. So, someone like tump saying they didn't find anything on collusion misses the point. Collusion is hard, obstruction of justice for that collusion is purposely easier.

I don't know how you would read a statement that it is easier to get someone for obstruction is a legal defense.
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Old 15th June 2017, 10:00 AM   #295
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
That has nothing to do with what Bob said, Crossbow. He disagreed with the thought that it should be illegal, not that it's enforced when it is.
And I only added that I wasn't going to defend it in my first post so no one would say ,"now look who loves US law." I didn't want a point about Trump not understanding obstruction to be about my weird aversion to the US system.
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Old 15th June 2017, 10:14 AM   #296
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
I can seldom figure what Bob is saying since he changes his arguments so often.
Well, it worked for me that one time but don't think that I'm a Bob decoder, here.
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Old 15th June 2017, 10:29 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
Incredible.

Couldn't the GOP field one competent candidate who was big on border security and factory jobs plus a bit of Reagan-like patriotic talk?
Truthfully, they did field such candidates. But the base wanted "I hate group x!" instead.

Hell, check out what just happened in Virginia - an out-of-state guy who screeched about Jim Crow-era Confederate monuments and called his more reasonable opponent a "cuckservative" (seriously!) nearly won the GOP nomination for governor.

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Old 15th June 2017, 04:20 PM   #298
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Special counsel is investigating Jared Kushner’s business dealings.

Quote:
Special Counsel Robert S. Mueller is investigating the finances and business dealings of Jared Kushner, President Trump’s son-in-law and adviser, as part of the probe into Russia’s interference in the 2016 presidential election, according to officials familiar with the matter.

FBI agents and federal prosecutors have also been examining the financial dealings of other Trump associates, including former national security adviser Michael Flynn, former campaign chairman Paul Manafort and Carter Page, who was listed as a foreign policy adviser for the campaign.

The Washington Post had earlier reported that investigators were scrutinizing separate meetings that Kushner held with Russians in December — first with Russian ambassador Sergey Kislyak and then with Sergey Gorkov, the head of a state-owned Russian development bank. At the time of that report it was not clear that the FBI was investigating Kushner’s business dealings.

The officials who described the financial focus of the investigation spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly.
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Old 15th June 2017, 05:45 PM   #299
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This thought just popped into my head. Has anyone looked into any efforts, on the part of the Russians, to place their thumb on the scale of the past few U.S. presidential elections, or are all resources being spent solely on the most recent one?
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Old 15th June 2017, 06:54 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by Macgyver1968 View Post
When did season 6 of "House Of Cards" start?...and why is it on every channel?
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Old 15th June 2017, 09:15 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
... Trump is hands down the most incompetent most corrupt President since Hoover.
I don't think the qualifier is necessary.
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Old 15th June 2017, 09:34 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
I don't think the qualifier is necessary.
You're probably right. At least Trump gets to be the most of something. I think he would appreciate that.
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Old 15th June 2017, 09:38 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
This thought just popped into my head. Has anyone looked into any efforts, on the part of the Russians, to place their thumb on the scale of the past few U.S. presidential elections, or are all resources being spent solely on the most recent one?
All the other elections had the "right" outcome so no one cares.
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Old 15th June 2017, 09:58 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
All the other elections had the "right" outcome so no one cares.
Really? You think Eisenhower through to Obama were the 'right outcomes'? Now it wouldn't surprise me one bit that other nations have tried to influence American elections. I think that can be expected. But this clearly is different in both scope and effect.

I think it's worthy of note that Trump has never been resistant to attacking almost everyone including our allies, yet he has been almost obsequious in his attitude towards one of the least democratic, most corrupt nations on the planet. It makes you wonder why. It's not like American citizens have been clamoring for rapprochement with Russia.
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Old 16th June 2017, 07:01 AM   #305
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https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonal...01471999864833

Trump confirms he's under investigation.
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Old 16th June 2017, 07:12 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonal...01471999864833

Trump confirms he's under investigation.
Quote:
Don't you have anything better to do than complain on Twitter all morning? Go do something useful.
Indeed.
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Old 16th June 2017, 07:14 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonal...01471999864833

Trump confirms he's under investigation.
He also contradicted his claim that he was going to fire Comey regardless of Rosenstein's recommendation.
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Old 16th June 2017, 07:16 AM   #308
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If the Republican congressmen had any spine, this guy'd have been out of office since March.
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Old 16th June 2017, 02:13 PM   #309
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Newt Gingrich yesterday:
Originally Posted by Gingrich tweet
Mueller is now clearly the ti[p [sic] of the deep state spear aimed at destroying or at a minimum undermining and crippling the Trump presidency.
A couple weeks earlier:
Originally Posted by Gingrich tweet
Robert Mueller is superb choice to be special counsel. His reputation is impeccable for honesty and integrity. Media should now calm down
His comments on Ken Starr in 1998:
Originally Posted by Gingrich
I think it is disgraceful that official representatives of the executive branch are undermining a legitimate, legal investigation of the Department of Justice.
These pathetic toadies don't even try at plausibility.
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Old 16th June 2017, 02:46 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post

His comments on Ken Starr in 1998:


These pathetic toadies don't even try at plausibility.
While Starr himself has been on TV supporting Muller.
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Old 16th June 2017, 02:53 PM   #311
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And Newt is not very bright. Encouraging Trump's paranoia is the WORST thing you could do now.
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Old 16th June 2017, 03:05 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And Newt is not very bright. Encouraging Trump's paranoia is the WORST thing you could do now.
I dunno. I'm willing to give Newt enough credit for intelligence (if not honor or decency) that it's remotely possible he's trying to do exactly that.
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Old 16th June 2017, 03:13 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonal...01471999864833

Trump confirms he's under investigation.
Now they are saying he's referring to a news article rather than personal knowledge.
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Old 16th June 2017, 03:15 PM   #314
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
I dunno. I'm willing to give Newt enough credit for intelligence (if not honor or decency) that it's remotely possible he's trying to do exactly that.
Newt has proven himself for years now to be making a living off this kind of publicity, be it to garner donations he uses to pay his own company or book sales.
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Old 16th June 2017, 03:18 PM   #315
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Newt has proven himself for years now to be making a living off this kind of publicity, be it to garner donations he uses to pay his own company or book sales.
True, which would give him even more incentive to gaslight the beast; this nonsense will sell a lot of books for a long time. In any case, I offered it up as a remote possibility, no more than that.
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Old 16th June 2017, 05:19 PM   #316
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And maybe Newt,who has interesting enough always left a door opened for him to abandon Trump ,thinks that Trump self destructing would create total chaos in the GOP and allow him to emerge as come kind of kingmaker.
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Old 16th June 2017, 05:22 PM   #317
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And maybe Newt,who has interesting enough always left a door opened for him to abandon Trump ,thinks that Trump self destructing would create total chaos in the GOP and allow him to emerge as come kind of kingmaker.
I'm sure that he, among other former GOP stars, has probably more than once had the thought that if the beast does go away he could be in line for a cabinet position once the office changes hands and the current crew is almost immediately and rightly fired.
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Old 16th June 2017, 05:27 PM   #318
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And maybe Newt,who has interesting enough always left a door opened for him to abandon Trump ,thinks that Trump self destructing would create total chaos in the GOP and allow him to emerge as come kind of kingmaker.
Or he's going to be flogging a book about Trump soon and having subject going down in flames shortly after publishing wouldn't be a good outcome.
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Old 17th June 2017, 12:28 AM   #319
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonal...01471999864833

Trump confirms he's under investigation.
Quote:
Don't you have anything better to do than complain on Twitter all morning? Go do something useful.
Indeed.

I'd rather he spend as much time on Twitter as he can.

Maybe all of it, if possible.

Every time he tries to do anything useful he screws up something that might be important.

And the more he tweeters the deeper he digs.

Keeping him on Twitter is a win/win for the country all the way around.
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Old 17th June 2017, 12:40 AM   #320
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Newt Gingrich yesterday:
Originally Posted by Gingrich tweet
Mueller is now clearly the ti[p [sic] of the deep state spear aimed at destroying or at a minimum undermining and crippling the Trump presidency.
A couple weeks earlier:
Originally Posted by Gingrich tweet
Robert Mueller is superb choice to be special counsel. His reputation is impeccable for honesty and integrity. Media should now calm down
His comments on Ken Starr in 1998:
Originally Posted by Gingrich
I think it is disgraceful that official representatives of the executive branch are undermining a legitimate, legal investigation of the Department of Justice.
These pathetic toadies don't even try at plausibility.

Here's a hypothetical question.

If someone could extract all of the integrity exhibited by the entire GOP contingent in both chambers of Congress this year, could God make a container small enough to store it without it being lost in the emptiness?
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