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Tags Graham Hancock , joe rogan , michael shermer , zahi hawass

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Old 25th May 2017, 03:14 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by Kid Eager View Post
Having a debate isn't about truth or evidence, it's about debating skills. In the case of 3 on 1, it's not even that. Hardly requires a special knowledge or talent to be rude and keep interrupting and talking over the top of somebody...
Yeah, it was a little annoying though. Shermer has been on Rogan's show before and they got on very well. Rogan even spoke well of him in later podcasts as well. So it was surprising to see how he treated him in this episode.

Honestly I like Joe Rogan's podcast and watch a lot of episodes. Generally while Joe can sometimes be credulous or biased, he is a good host, relatively honest, actually interested in the truth, etc. But while I tried I couldn't even finish this episode because it was just getting to aggravating. I made it about an hour and three quarters through and decided it wasn't worth continuing.

I enjoy trying to understand how people who see things differently than me come to their viewpoint. Sometimes they even change my mind which is a cool thing to happen. But this was just bullying.
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Old 25th May 2017, 03:42 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
That's the point though. We'd expect to find such evidence but don't. Whatever happened there it hasn't been revealed in the 5% excavated so far. Really, it could be as simple as "they moved to where the fishing was better" coupled with "Why are we wasting so much time building stuff to honor Gods which have let us down?"

12,000 years was a long time ago.

In my opinion, monoliths alone do not an advanced civilization make.
If we can find primitive artefacts from hundreds of thousands of years ago, manufactured by hunter gatherers, why can we not find the remains of this much later advanced civilisation?
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Old 25th May 2017, 03:57 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
Yeah, it was a little annoying though. Shermer has been on Rogan's show before and they got on very well. Rogan even spoke well of him in later podcasts as well. So it was surprising to see how he treated him in this episode.

Honestly I like Joe Rogan's podcast and watch a lot of episodes. Generally while Joe can sometimes be credulous or biased, he is a good host, relatively honest, actually interested in the truth, etc. But while I tried I couldn't even finish this episode because it was just getting to aggravating. I made it about an hour and three quarters through and decided it wasn't worth continuing.

I enjoy trying to understand how people who see things differently than me come to their viewpoint. Sometimes they even change my mind which is a cool thing to happen. But this was just bullying.
*^Is offering testimony having not witnessed the entire event.^*

This was not a debate it was a discussion, wherein Shermer AGREES with Hancock, and at the end says he is both well research and well reasoned.

---

-He wasn't up to it
-He didn't have all his fact
-He's not our best skeptic
-Being faced with facts isn't a place where skeptics bode well
-How can skeptics be expected to speak intelligently during a debate

OR, and hear me out...

Shermer is an intelligent, reasonable, logical person who heard and saw facts that changed his mind?

Last edited by King of the Americas; 25th May 2017 at 03:59 AM.
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Old 25th May 2017, 04:16 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
If we can find primitive artefacts from hundreds of thousands of years ago, manufactured by hunter gatherers, why can we not find the remains of this much later advanced civilisation?
You have it backwards...the hunter gatherers came AFTER the advanced monolith makers..years later we showed up.
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Old 25th May 2017, 04:59 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
*^Is offering testimony having not witnessed the entire event.^*

This was not a debate it was a discussion, wherein Shermer AGREES with Hancock, and at the end says he is both well research and well reasoned.

---

-He wasn't up to it
-He didn't have all his fact
-He's not our best skeptic
-Being faced with facts isn't a place where skeptics bode well
-How can skeptics be expected to speak intelligently during a debate

OR, and hear me out...

Shermer is an intelligent, reasonable, logical person who heard and saw facts that changed his mind?
Ha! No.
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Old 25th May 2017, 05:07 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Ha! No.
That was a multiple choice question...
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Old 25th May 2017, 05:11 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
You have it backwards...the hunter gatherers came AFTER the advanced monolith makers..years later we showed up.
So humans started making monoliths and then were reduced to primitive state. We have their primitive artefacts, but not any advanced ones? We have stone tools millions of years old, from Africa. The monolith builders were prior to this?
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Old 25th May 2017, 05:23 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
So humans started making monoliths and then were reduced to primitive state. We have their primitive artefacts, but not any advanced ones? We have stone tools millions of years old, from Africa. The monolith builders were prior to this?
Yes, according to carbon dating and stratified layers...

"The most detail and higher forms of the buildings came at the earliest. The ruins of GT show a clear degradation of the carving and building, until complete reversion back to hunter gatherers."
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Old 25th May 2017, 06:03 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Yes, according to carbon dating and stratified layers...

"The most detail and higher forms of the buildings came at the earliest. The ruins of GT show a clear degradation of the carving and building, until complete reversion back to hunter gatherers."
You're missing the point of my post. If there was a "reversion back" to hunter gatherers, then there must have been hunter gatherers prior to the alleged "higher forms". We have ample evidence of the primitive artefacts made over millions of years by these earlier hunter gatherers.

So where are the later advanced artefacts of the civilisation that was capable of creating "higher forms"?
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Old 25th May 2017, 06:10 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
You're missing the point of my post. If there was a "reversion back" to hunter gatherers, then there must have been hunter gatherers prior to the alleged "higher forms". We have ample evidence of the primitive artefacts made over millions of years by these earlier hunter gatherers.

So where are the later advanced artefacts of the civilisation that was capable of creating "higher forms"?
The "detailed difficult to erect monoliths."
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Old 25th May 2017, 06:15 AM   #131
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I think Hancock watched Planet of the Apes one too many times
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Old 25th May 2017, 06:23 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by GT/CS View Post
I think Hancock watched Planet of the Apes one too many times
Objection- Speculation
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Old 25th May 2017, 07:27 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
That was a multiple choice question...
Yeah, the silly bit after you said, "OR hear me out" is the bit I dismissed with a "Ha! No!"
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 25th May 2017, 07:28 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Objection- Speculation
That which can be asserted with pure speculation, can be dismissed with pure speculation.
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Old 25th May 2017, 07:33 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
The "detailed difficult to erect monoliths."
So from Egypt we have only "difficult to erect" pyramids? That's it? None of the mass of other artefacts that all civilisations necessarily generate, from combs and pins to long inscriptions on the walls of public buildings? But we do have these other things, heaps of them, from ancient civilisations.
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Old 25th May 2017, 07:45 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
*^Is offering testimony having not witnessed the entire event.^*
That's right, I'm giving an opinion on the hour and forty five minutes that I did watch. Do you have any disagreement with what I said about that?
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Old 25th May 2017, 09:02 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
So from Egypt we have only "difficult to erect" pyramids? That's it? None of the mass of other artefacts that all civilisations necessarily generate, from combs and pins to long inscriptions on the walls of public buildings? But we do have these other things, heaps of them, from ancient civilisations.
Let's keep the pyramids out of this... Properly dating and placing each monument is another 20 page thread.

The interview is specifically addressing GT because it was so well preserved.
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Old 25th May 2017, 09:15 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Yeah, the silly bit after you said, "OR hear me out" is the bit I dismissed with a "Ha! No!"
Then you should ask him to stop being your spokesperson.
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Old 25th May 2017, 09:36 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
So from Egypt we have only "difficult to erect" pyramids? That's it? None of the mass of other artefacts that all civilisations necessarily generate, from combs and pins to long inscriptions on the walls of public buildings? But we do have these other things, heaps of them, from ancient civilisations.
Not only that, but these delicate fragile obelisks survived the complete and utter annihilation of every trace of this culture unscathed.
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Old 25th May 2017, 09:44 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
...unscathed.
???

I guess you missed what happened after influential died. If they were offense enough to their replacements, all images of them were removed from edifices, manuscripts burned, their vey name attempt to be erased from history.
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Old 25th May 2017, 10:12 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
The "detailed difficult to erect monoliths."
It was only on the last page that you conceded that Wally Wallington showed that one man could erect a monolith. Now you're trying to backtrack on that?

And how could they have come before the hunter-gatherers? Homo sapiens is about 100,000 years old, about 40,000 years ago entered Eurasia. How do you think they lived all the time before the invention of agriculture?
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Old 25th May 2017, 10:38 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
And how could they have come before the hunter-gatherers? Homo sapiens is about 100,000 years old, about 40,000 years ago entered Eurasia. How do you think they lived all the time before the invention of agriculture?
Cheese, mostly.
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Old 25th May 2017, 12:51 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
It was only on the last page that you conceded that Wally Wallington showed that one man could erect a monolith. Now you're trying to backtrack on that?

And how could they have come before the hunter-gatherers? Homo sapiens is about 100,000 years old, about 40,000 years ago entered Eurasia. How do you think they lived all the time before the invention of agriculture?
At GT, there were MANY erections (giggle). The earliest ones were the most ornate and difficult to assemble.

One guy moving around concrete blocks is NOT = GT.

Because carbon dating.
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Old 25th May 2017, 01:06 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
At GT, there were MANY erections (giggle). The earliest ones were the most ornate and difficult to assemble.

One guy moving around concrete blocks is NOT = GT.

Because carbon dating.
What do you think, three? Eight at most. Maybe a couple more to cook lunch. (Presuming, of course, they had such a thing as 'lunch'.)
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Old 25th May 2017, 01:22 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
What do you think, three? Eight at most. Maybe a couple more to cook lunch. (Presuming, of course, they had such a thing as 'lunch'.)
Please investigate GT more closely...
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Old 25th May 2017, 03:36 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
At GT, there were MANY erections (giggle). The earliest ones were the most ornate and difficult to assemble.
What makes you say that?

Quote:
One guy moving around concrete blocks is NOT = GT.
No, but 50 guys might pull it off.
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Old 25th May 2017, 03:50 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
What makes you say that?

No, but 50 guys might pull it off.
Evidence. Did you review the video?

You have clearly not investigated the ruins of GT...
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Old 25th May 2017, 09:24 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Objection- Speculation
Over-ruled. Goes to credibility.
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Old 25th May 2017, 09:27 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Over-ruled. Goes to credibility.
Permission to treat him as a hostile witness, because of non-responsiveness, Your Honor?
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Old 25th May 2017, 09:29 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Permission to treat him as a hostile witness, because of non-responsiveness, Your Honor?
Granted. KotA, one more illogical outburst and you'll be held in contempt. Please proceed to show the defense exhibits, Zero through Zero, representing the complete evidence you have for your claims.

Defense Exhibit 0. This guy says so and I find it interesting.
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Old 26th May 2017, 01:31 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Then you should ask him to stop being your spokesperson.
I don't have enough money to employ people as my spokesperson. You seem to be misinformed.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 26th May 2017, 05:32 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Over-ruled. Goes to credibility.
Objection- Beyond the Scope of the Witness

Shermer has presented himself as a spokesperson and an expert, his testimony is valid.

The posters here have presented no bonafides to surpass their expert.
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Old 26th May 2017, 05:34 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Granted. KotA, one more illogical outburst and you'll be held in contempt. ...
"You're out of order, this whole place is out of order!"

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Old 26th May 2017, 06:51 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Shermer has presented himself as a spokesperson and an expert, his testimony is valid.
So if somebody presents himself as a spokesperson and an expert, and fails to win a contest in a debate for amusement, crank archaeology is true?

Quote:
The posters here have presented no bonafides to surpass their expert.
Is it necessary to be an expert to know that a debate is not a vehicle for advancing science?
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Old 26th May 2017, 07:01 AM   #155
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Also, it's quite fallacious to call Shermer the spokesperson for all posters here. And dishonest. Because he isn't.
Even if he were, science isn't some medieval trial by combat.

And where did Shermer present himself as an expert on archaology, astronomy and climate change? I must have missed that. Or it's another dishonest assertion.
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Old 26th May 2017, 07:18 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
So if somebody presents himself as a spokesperson and an expert, and fails to win a contest in a debate for amusement, crank archaeology is true?



Is it necessary to be an expert to know that a debate is not a vehicle for advancing science?
This was not a 'debate,' it was a discussion wherein each party was allowed to speak at length, without restraint.

There were no 'rules' enacted or implied.

He did not 'fail to win,' it was a discussion and a presentation of facts, after which Shermer admits Hancock and his associate were both well reasoned and well researched.

He did not 'lose his mind'...or become hypnotized by magic.

The exchange is in no way as you describe it.
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Old 26th May 2017, 01:43 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
He did not 'fail to win,' it was a discussion and a presentation of facts, after which Shermer admits Hancock and his associate were both well reasoned and well researched.
The OP stated that Hancock "wiped the floor with Shermer", so I am sorry that I got it wrong. There are some disadvantages with not seeing the video that is the subject.


OK, Shermer admits that Hancock and his associate were both well reasoned and well researched, and because of that you want us to concede that crank archaeology is true?

I still have better things to do with my life than watching hours of discussions, but you have got me interested, so if you can find a transcript of the discussion - or even just a presentation of the "modern" research that Hancock has produced that is supposed to turn his crackpottery into science, I'll be willing to read it.
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Old 26th May 2017, 04:22 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
...


OK, Shermer admits that Hancock and his associate were both well reasoned and well researched, and because of that you want us to concede that crank archaeology is true?

...
I don't think you'll find those words in any of my responses.

Because both of those men came well researched, their reason is difficult to part with.

I highly recommend everyone here watch this entire interview.
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Old 29th May 2017, 08:27 PM   #159
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Should I claim that skeptics have 'ran' from this topic because they refused to address the research provided?
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Old 29th May 2017, 10:38 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Should I claim that skeptics have 'ran' from this topic because they refused to address the research provided?
Yes, yes you should.
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