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Old 24th May 2017, 10:33 AM   #321
Porpoise of Life
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Please be more specific.
Every single argument. For instance that the symbol you named this thread for, that is supposed to show a link between the menorah and Atlantis, looks like neither.
That there is no evidence that the menorah was ever adapted from that carving
That even if it were, there still is no link to Atlantis.

You'll just keep evading the arguments, and you will never explain how you think what you've claimed somehow points to Atlantis being real...

ETA:
Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
I'm looking!
No you're not. You're just glibly ignoring the real point: that talking about a ficticious place as if it were real in order to teach or philosophize was not considered a bad thing to do for learned men.
And that this fact undermines the strawman of what Plato would and would not have felt morally obliged to write about.

If you want to evade our arguments, then at least please supply your own.

So, tell us, what's the link to Atlantis?

Last edited by Porpoise of Life; 24th May 2017 at 10:36 AM.
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Old 24th May 2017, 10:34 AM   #322
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Please be more specific.
How about you read the last couple of pages, instead? Your have a terrible attitude.
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Old 24th May 2017, 11:04 AM   #323
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
Every single argument. For instance that the symbol you named this thread for, that is supposed to show a link between the menorah and Atlantis, looks like neither.
In fact, I DID address that point. I hold that a a midway point of dis-association is exactly what one would expect during the adoption of a symbol.

Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
That there is no evidence that the menorah was ever adapted from that carving
That even if it were, there still is no link to Atlantis.
I have presented THE evidence that the symbol was adopted from a "pattern" on or in a mount.

Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
You'll just keep evading the arguments, and you will never explain how you think what you've claimed somehow points to Atlantis being real...
Did you see the google earth images of the sunken structures at Tarshish?

Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
ETA:

No you're not. You're just glibly ignoring the real point: that talking about a ficticious place as if it were real in order to teach or philosophize was not considered a bad thing to do for learned men.
And that this fact undermines the strawman of what Plato would and would not have felt morally obliged to write about.

If you want to evade our arguments, then at least please supply your own.

So, tell us, what's the link to Atlantis?
Plato's vivid description, have you studied it? I have been and I am left wondering why Plato would include the descriptions of the colors of the rocks- "red, black, and white" hewn from the bedrock of different volcanic rock in the area. Why include these details about a fictional city? What was he trying to teach his students by including these colors?

My next question is "Are there sources of such stone near and around Tarshish?" Looks, like signs point to "Yes."
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Old 24th May 2017, 11:06 AM   #324
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
How about you read the last couple of pages, instead? Your have a terrible attitude.
"Glasses houses...so tough to keep clean too."
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Old 24th May 2017, 11:30 AM   #325
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
"Glasses houses...so tough to keep clean too."
Do you have any counter arguments or not?

It seems like you don't. Otherwise you wouldn't be making stupid posts like that.

Quote:
I hold that a a midway point of dis-association is exactly what one would expect during the adoption of a symbol.
Are you an expert in these matters? If not, where do you get that idea?

Quote:
Plato's vivid description, have you studied it?
Plenty of vivid descriptions in fiction.
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Old 24th May 2017, 11:37 AM   #326
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
I don't think so, but please explain.

You claimed that "Plato wrote from that which he witness and have evidence of". The allegory of the cave says that this is not a valid approach.
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Old 24th May 2017, 11:47 AM   #327
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
You claimed that "Plato wrote from that which he witness and have evidence of". The allegory of the cave says that this is not a valid approach.
If you think that story is about an actual cave, and not about social interactions between those who have been enlightened and those in the uneducated dark, then the moral is lost on you.

I postulate the allegory of the cave holds principled truth.
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Old 24th May 2017, 12:22 PM   #328
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You're just messing with us, right?
Because that's what we've been trying to tell you. The cave and Atlantis are both fictional locations from an allegory.
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Old 24th May 2017, 01:25 PM   #329
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
If you think that story is about an actual cave...

I don't.
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Old 24th May 2017, 01:35 PM   #330
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
My head, the bloody stump, is begging me to stop...
All you have to do is tie the damn thing to your Atlantis.
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Old 24th May 2017, 01:53 PM   #331
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
You're just messing with us, right?
Because that's what we've been trying to tell you. The cave and Atlantis are both fictional locations from an allegory.
I don't understand why you get to make that assumption, given Athens IS real.

Nothing (but social principles) in the cave allegory was real or actual. While there are caves, probably none with chained up men watching forms.

What is being taught by describing the stone used in the construction? I don't get it? If plato is making up a fictional city, was he condoning using volcanic rock of this color?

What evidence leads you to believe one city is real and one isn't?

Last edited by King of the Americas; 24th May 2017 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 24th May 2017, 02:01 PM   #332
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So, there ARE sunken ruins at Tarshish. I've posted the pictures.

Are there volcanic quarries with red and black stone nearby?

---

Would simple core samples that indicts the presence of red and black volcanic stone, be convincing evidence?

Last edited by King of the Americas; 24th May 2017 at 02:04 PM. Reason: ETA STUFF
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Old 24th May 2017, 03:39 PM   #333
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
You claimed that "Plato wrote from that which he witness and have evidence of". The allegory of the cave says that this is not a valid approach.
You think Plato didn't see people get rejected by old friends, after he or she got an education?
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Old 24th May 2017, 03:55 PM   #334
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
I'm saying symbols get adopted, their true meanings, associated phrases, locations don't have to be known. And the inverse is also true. There probably not a lot of Nike symbols on their factories in Thailand...

My hometown does not emblazon its 'mark' on items we create.

You want or are otherwise looking for ties, when the only one necessary is the symbol, and a line of providence provenance.

FIFY
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Old 24th May 2017, 04:26 PM   #335
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So, if you employ google earth and look at the spanish coast, there are what appear to be sunken ruins:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Screen Shot 2017-05-24 at 6.22.52 PM.jpg (80.5 KB, 10 views)
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Old 24th May 2017, 04:28 PM   #336
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
FIFY
Awesome, new word! I've been word choice-ing that error for a while. Thank you for the correction!
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Old 24th May 2017, 04:35 PM   #337
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
So, if you employ google earth and look at the spanish coast, there are what appear to be sunken ruins:

I don't see any dreidels there, so it can't be Atlantis.
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Old 24th May 2017, 04:43 PM   #338
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
I don't see any dreidels there, so it can't be Atlantis.
Maybe they hadn't been fired yet?
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Old 24th May 2017, 04:46 PM   #339
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
I don't see any dreidels there, so it can't be Atlantis.
Honestly, I think if we looked at every religion we'd see symbol appropriation. Easter eggs & Christmas trees anyone?
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Old 24th May 2017, 04:51 PM   #340
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Honestly, I think if we looked at every religion we'd see symbol appropriation. Easter eggs & Christmas trees anyone?
We have documentation to indicate how, when and why those traditions were adopted. Where's your evidence of Atlantis being tied to a menorah? I'm at a loss as to why you feel you get to skip the step of actually documenting the association of the menorah and your Atlantis.
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Old 24th May 2017, 04:53 PM   #341
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
So, there ARE sunken ruins at Tarshish. I've posted the pictures.

Are there volcanic quarries with red and black stone nearby?

---

Would simple core samples that indicts the presence of red and black volcanic stone, be convincing evidence?
Why do you think the ruins are Tarshish?
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Old 24th May 2017, 05:03 PM   #342
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
We have documentation to indicate how, when and why those traditions were adopted. Where's your evidence of Atlantis being tied to a menorah? I'm at a loss as to why you feel you get to skip the step of actually documenting the association of the menorah and your Atlantis.
Watch the video, review this thread, the evidence you seek has been provided.
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Old 24th May 2017, 05:09 PM   #343
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Why do you think the ruins are Tarshish?
As with all real-estate ....location location location.
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Old 24th May 2017, 05:09 PM   #344
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Watch the video, review this thread, the evidence you seek has been provided.
I am aware of no mention of a menorah in any of Plato's works.
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Old 24th May 2017, 05:11 PM   #345
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
As with all real-estate ....location location location.
When you've been in Rome, have you noticed how hard it is to find anything with the letters SPQR on it?
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Old 24th May 2017, 05:25 PM   #346
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I am aware of no mention of a menorah in any of Plato's works.
Please, pretty please, review this thread, THEN ask a question.
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Old 24th May 2017, 05:27 PM   #347
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
When you've been in Rome, have you noticed how hard it is to find anything with the letters SPQR on it?
Rome never left the map, right?
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Old 24th May 2017, 05:31 PM   #348
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Rome never left the map, right?
You miss my point. If you are in Rome it's hard not to see that you're in Rome because there are messages telling you that you're in Rome. Everywhere you look you see SPQR. Can you point to anything like that in what you say is Tarshesh?
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Old 24th May 2017, 05:33 PM   #349
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Please, pretty please, review this thread, THEN ask a question.
I have. You just can't associate with menorah with your Atlantis. You have some wishful thinking you've communicated and some rather odd non sequiturs but your work is poor and you fail to make any substantive connection.
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Old 24th May 2017, 05:36 PM   #350
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
You miss my point. If you are in Rome it's hard not to see that you're in Rome because there are messages telling you that you're in Rome. Everywhere you look you see SPQR. Can you point to anything like that in what you say is Tarshesh?
It's underwater, covered by the ocean...

I think a more apt comparison is the Sri Lanka.
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Old 24th May 2017, 05:38 PM   #351
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I have. You just can't associate with menorah with your Atlantis. You have some wishful thinking you've communicated and some rather odd non sequiturs but your work is poor and you fail to make any substantive connection.
If you disagree that a symbol can be adopted, like the Nike Swoosh, without the adopter ever having heard of the phrase "Just Do It.", Michael Jordan, or Tiger Woods, then say so...

Also, this isn't 'my' research or me claims. They belong to James Cameron and National Geographic.

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Old 24th May 2017, 05:47 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
If you disagree that a symbol can be adopted, like the Nike Swoosh, without the adopter ever having heard of the phrase "Just Do It.", Michael Jordan, or Tiger Woods.

Also, this isn't 'my' research or me claims. They belong to James Cameron and National Geographic.
Learn the difference between "could" and "were".
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Old 24th May 2017, 05:53 PM   #353
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Learn the difference between "could" and "were".
Symbols HAVE, and are still being adopted.

The shape, location, date, AND biblical record prove the menorah WAS in fact just such a symbol, adopted without "provenance."
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Old 24th May 2017, 05:55 PM   #354
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
I simply don't understand your difficultly with symbol adoption...

Those who adopted it, 'turned it INO the menorah' because they didn't have access to its original meaning.

How does an upside down menorah make sense to you?
HaHaHaHa! That's some funny **** right there!
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Old 24th May 2017, 06:02 PM   #355
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
I don't understand [...]
Obviously.
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Old 24th May 2017, 06:34 PM   #356
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Symbols HAVE, and are still being adopted.

The shape, location, date, AND biblical record prove the menorah WAS in fact just such a symbol, adopted without "provenance."
Which is another way of saying that you can't establish a relationship between a menorah and your Atlantis.
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Old 24th May 2017, 06:36 PM   #357
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Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
If you disagree that a symbol can be adopted, like the Nike Swoosh, without the adopter ever having heard of the phrase "Just Do It.", Michael Jordan, or Tiger Woods, then say so...

Also, this isn't 'my' research or me claims. They belong to James Cameron and National Geographic.
Their work sucks as bad as yours. Yes symbols can be adopted. You just can't prove it happened in this case.
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Old 24th May 2017, 06:44 PM   #358
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Originally Posted by John Jones View Post
HaHaHaHa! That's some funny **** right there!
Call it a bucket of bull butter...no censorship needed.
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Old 24th May 2017, 06:55 PM   #359
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Which is another way of saying that you can't establish a relationship between a menorah and your Atlantis.
You mean, except the "shape, date, and location"...?

*yawn*
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Old 24th May 2017, 06:56 PM   #360
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Their work sucks as bad as yours. Yes symbols can be adopted. You just can't prove it happened in this case.
"What we have here, is a failure to communicate."

Saying work sucks isn't an argument.
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