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#641 |
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Since we've established the validity of my question "How did Dr. Finck see the entry hole in the intact skull after the brain had already been removed", I must remind everyone who still thinks the wound was high in the cowlick area to answer that in a way that isn't completely stupid, otherwise any reasonable person must revert to the original lower EOP location for the entry in the back of the head.
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#642 |
Hostile Nanobacon
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#643 |
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#644 |
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#645 |
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#646 |
Hostile Nanobacon
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#647 |
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Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!" |
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#648 |
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Disingenuous Piranha |
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#649 |
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Disingenuous Piranha |
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#650 |
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He doesn't want to get pinned down and exposed.
He has probably figured out that all of the 2nd gunman theories have been shredded into mist by now, and since there is no viable theory currently he can't ape it. Plus, he's too lazy to advance a murkier CT that leaves LHO as the shooter, but involves shadowy evil-doers. When I was a JFK-CTer the fabricated mystery of the assassination was a way to pretend I was doing something important for mankind, justice, and history without actually doing anything, but wasting money on books written by hucksters, and fools. ![]() |
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#651 |
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Can you get an image of z313 and draw what you're talking about over it with MS Paint?
Like a trophy that says "you tried", maybe. You must have missed a step, because you're not very good at what you do now. |
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#652 |
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Read the dissents by those House Committee members who voted against the findings of conspiracy. Every one of them references the fact that they found the acoustic study unconvincing or inadequate. Not one even mentions the photographic panel's conclusions about evidence for a shot at Z190 or thereabouts. Quite simply, they didn't find evidence in the Zapruder film to buttress the conclusion of a shot at that time wounding both JFK and Connally, and I don't either.
http://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/hs..._4_Remarks.pdf The photographic panel, from a 'jiggle / blur analysis' of Zapruder's panning errrors, concluded the second greatest disturbance in panning motion occurred shortly before JFK went behind the sign (the head shot reaction of Zapruder is the greatest disturbance). However, they apparently didn't even consider something as simple as whether Zapruder was trying to decide at that point whether to stop filming or continue filming as the President went behind the sign, and if the latter, whether he should attempt to pan smoothly or jump ahead to the point where the President would emerge from the sign. Any indecision on Zapruder's part - and there must have been some - would affect his panning rate as he tried to decide how to proceed, and would introduce errors into their assumption that panning errors might be tied to gunshots. The problem is the assumption that Zapruder would react to the sound of gunfire and that a panning motion or film blur analysis would allow them to scientifically determine when shots were fired in the Zapruder film. The greatest blur comes about five frames after the head shot, but that head shot is not just aural to Zapruder, it's visible... JFK's head explodes in a massive cloud of blood, bone, and brain. Of course Zapruder would react to that visual stimulus. But attempting to carry it to other shots where there was little visual reaction by anyone and where Zapruder only heard the sound of gunfire was a mistake, in my view. Separate from that, the photographic panel also felt they noticed some reaction by President Kennedy by frame 207 to a "severe external stimulus" that they couldn't define. That severe external stimulus could have been nothing greater than JFK's reaction to the first (missed) shot. It was the attempt to marry the acoustic analysis conclusion of a 'impulse' at Z190 with the photographic panel's jiggle analysis that led to the conclusion of a shot wounding both men at that time (Z190). That was the only possible conclusion if the acoustic evidence was legitimate because, according to the acoustic panel, the next shot was about six seconds later (about frame 295) -- far too late for a shot to wound JFK and Connally. So the Committee either had to shoehorn a shot wounding both men in at Z190 or conclude the acoustic analysis was flawed and didn't match what we can observe in the Zapruder film. They chose the former, but further analysis shows they should have chosen the latter. http://www.history-matters.com/archi...Vol6_0017b.htm Hank |
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#653 |
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We've established the exact opposite of what you claim. It has been answered by the statements of Dr. Finck and Dr. Humes and Dr. Boswell. And the HSCA forensic panel. Your pretense to the contrary is amusing, but not evidence.
Logical fallacy of Begging the Question, where you imbed in your point the conclusion you've already reached. This is also an example of you pretending to be your own best expert, as you rely solely on your own interpretations of the evidence and testimony, rather than on what the experts actually said. And still Begging the Question. Hank |
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#654 |
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Only because you don't know where the cowlick entry is on the x-rays. You drew the circle too low, remember?
Cite the evidence to the contrary from the ballistic experiments done with Oswald's rifle by the Army. Reference the testimony of Dr. Olivier and Dr. Light. You don't get to just say 'no' and dismiss the evidence the HSCA forensic panel found important. Cite the evidence for this statement. Or admit you just made it up and you have no evidence for this statement. So you have no evidence you can site, but if I want to object to your conclusion I need to disprove it with "a comprehensive study from a team of photographic experts using modern technology"? Shifting the burden of proof. You want to claim something contrary to the conclusions of the autopsists and the HSCA forensic panel, you need to post the evidence for it. Ball is still in your court. The higher (not cowlick, that's just your assumption) wound location does fit the known evidence from start to finish. You got some evidence it doesn't fit? Let's hear it. And it should be able to overturn the evidence indicating shots from the Depository (that's part of the 'totality of evidence') -- like a second weapon found somewhere, and shells or bullets or fragments not traceable to Oswald's weapon. I'd love to hear all about your 'totality of evidence'. Let's hear it. And just bear in mind it should be something other than your opinion, because your opinion is not evidence. Hank |
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#655 |
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"Looks like we're really in nut country now, Toto." |
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#656 |
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Can you draw a picture of your comprehensive theory for how the assassination happened? Surely you can do that with all of your opinions as evidence.
Quote:
Quote:
According to the one CT website you parrot, where from behind JFK would it have been impossible for the shot to come? |
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#657 |
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I'm still waiting for MicahJava to cite autopsy evidence of a second head wound.
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#658 |
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Handy responses to conspiracy theorists' claims: 1) "I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." --Charles Babbage 2) "This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." --Wolfgang Pauli 3) "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." --Inigo Montoya |
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#659 |
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Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!" |
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#660 |
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Nope. Not playing your game.
Quote:
So I am digging myself out of a deep intellectual hole I dug. The irony is that this hole is being filled in from the dirt you're shoveling while digging your own hole. |
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#661 |
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About 15 years for me (1965-80) or thereabouts. Started with Weisberg, moved to Lane & Meagher, then a host of others, including Groden, Marrs, Lifton, too many to count.
Getting the WC 26 volumes and the HSCA set was the turning point for me. I found out for myself how badly the critics had been twisting the facts and how it was the critics who were keeping the truth from the American public, while accusing the Warren Commission of that very deed, and they were doing it in the name of the almighty dollar. Hank |
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#662 |
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"Looks like we're really in nut country now, Toto." |
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#663 |
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I guess I'm different, in that I never believed a conspiracy, and am very skeptical of those writers of books positioning for their point of view on a subject. Or those that post gibberish on the web defending "truth" as they see it. My brush with CT's started with the Moon landing conspiracy and the non scientific/technical buffoonery. I'm glad that you two have done a great deal of research and can put people like MicahJava down. |
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#664 |
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Hank:
On the ~z190 evidence, the HSCA photographic panel definitely listed more reasons than "jiggle analysis" for believing that those frames showed more than Kennedy moving his arm down from waving. |
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#665 |
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Disingenuous Piranha |
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#666 |
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#667 |
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Maybe JFK had been replaced by a cyborg replica that malfunctioned in the humidity of Dallas causing its head to explode, so they frame Oswald to keep the secret that the real JFK had been rescued by time travelers to become the POTUS in 2024.
This is a more rational explanation than the President being struck by a silenced .22 round that nobody saw. ![]() |
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#668 |
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"When a man who is honestly mistaken, hears the truth, he will either cease being mistaken or cease being honest." - Anonymous "Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus |
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#669 |
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#670 |
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From the 1971 paper in the Journal of Forensic Sciences, Photographic Evidence and the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy by physicist Don Olson and criminalist Ralph Turner:
"The Warren Commission believed that frames 225-230 represented the President's reactions to a shot fired somewhere in the interval of Zapruder frames 210-224, while the President was behind the road sign. However, certain observations in the Zapruder film will be noted here to indicate that the first wounding of the President may not have been blocked from the record by the road sign. The transition in the President's appearance between frames 183 and 230 (described above) in fact seems to begin with certain reactions in the intervals of frames 194-206. First, a general trend in the frames 194-206 may be noted. Beginning as early as frame 194, the President's body seems to undergo a motion forward and to the left. This motion, which can be visually approximated to be on the order of six or seven inches, seems to begin in frame 194 and continues through about frame 200. The President seems to move away from the seat back and tilt to to the left, away from the window ledge." ... "Study of the frames reveals further information. Recalling the descriptions above, it is clear that between frames 183 and 230, two specific changes occurred in the President's position. First, the President turned his head and shoulders back from the crowd until he was facing forward. Also, the President's right arm moved from a position with the elbow below a chrome strip on the outside of the car, into a position with the arm and elbow well inside the car and raised almost to chin level. These frames and motions have been described in such great detail because both of these specific changes in Kennedy can be observed to occur in the "early Zapruder frames," i.e., those before the President disappears from view behind the road sign. In this context, It happens that frame 204 is very important. On the interval the President's body is seen to narrow somewhat to the view, indicating that he not only leans to the Left front, but also is rotated to the left. The rotation of the shoulders begins as early as frame 195. His head comes around at 200-202. By frame 204 the President is facing almost directly forward. As the President moves and rotates to the left, his right arm is pulled back into the car. While his elbow has been resting outside the car, it comes up noticeably at frame 195. The President's elbow can be seen to cross the chrome strip on the side of the car at frames As President Kennedy disappears from view behind the sign, his right arm seems to he in a particularly unusual position the clearly visible gray of his suit coat indicating that his right arm and elbow have been raised at least to the level of his chin." http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisb.../Item%2001.pdf From the 9/12/1978 testimony of Calvin McCamy, spokesman for the HSCA photographic evidence panel: "...There is considerable blurring at this point. The President's arm is up in a waving position. His head is still toward the right. At this point there is considerable blur, and by here, it appears as though his head is beginning to turn quite rapidly to the left. His head is now to the left. That is only one-eighteenth of a second from one frame to the next. He continues to look toward the left. One barely sees his right ear toward the camera. It is quite clear he is here now looking directly at his wife. He and his wife can be seen looking at one another in this sequence. He now goes behind the sign, and only a fraction of a second later we see his hands moving upward. He has a gasping expression. His hands are in a classic position of a person who has been startled. He now begins to raise his arms into what I would call a defensive position. He may be clutching at the throat wound." https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc....d=148&tab=page From the HSCA photographic evidence panel's final report: 64. (a) By a vote of 12 to 5, the Panel determined that President Kennedy first showed a reaction to some severe external stimulus by Zapruder frame 207 as he is seen going behind a street sign that obstructed Zapruder's view. ... 70. At approximately Zapruder frame 200, Kennedy's movements suddenly freeze; his right hand abruptly stops in the midst of a waving motion and his head moves rapidly from right to his left in the direction of his wife. Based on these movements, it appears that by the time the President goes behind the sign at frame 207 he is evidencing some kind of reaction to a severe external stimulus. By the time he emerges from behind the sign at Zapruder frame 225, the President makes a clutching motion with his hands toward his neck, indicating clearly that he has been shot. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc....Id=22&tab=page HSCA photographic expert Cecil Kirk's testimony at the 1986 mock trial of Lee Harvey Oswald: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGsD8i3qOgo&t=2m55s Notice how Bugliosi is using evidence of conspiracy as evidence of whatever the hell he believes in (he doesn't address the z190+ problems in his book Reclaiming History)!! Not to mention the photograph taken by Dealey Plaza witness Phillip Willis, corresponding to Zapruder frame 206-210, which he always swore was snapped as a startle reaction to hearing the first shot. |
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#671 |
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Let's assume the cowlick area of the skull wouldn't naturally separate considering how it was within the fractured radius of the large defect. It would, but let's assume the hypothetical cowlick entry hole is an invincible perforation in the skull bone. If you "cut the top off the skull above the 'cowlick' area, that would make a skullcap opening about half as large as your average skullcap procedure performed to remove a brain. How do you fit that brain through that small of a hole?
Also, according to this webpage from the Vermont University anatomy department, you must have a skull cavity large enough to get your fingers under the temporal lobes of the brain so you can cut the tentorium cerebelli: https://web.archive.org/web/20060615153312/http://cats.med.uvm.edu/cats_teachingmod/gross_anatomy/head_and_neck/head_and_neck_index.html |
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#672 |
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#673 |
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#674 |
Hostile Nanobacon
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#675 |
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External stimulus does not automatically mean he got shot, and these evaluations are subjective. Plus at the time none of these "experts" had access to enhanced or stabilized footage like we do today. Another resource we have today is a few thousand videos online of people getting shot. Nothing in the Zapruder Film looks anything like a gunshot wound until the fatal headshot. Has anyone ask these guys if they still believe what they stated today? In the end the President was only struck by two bullets, both from behind, both a 6.5x52mm round. |
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#676 |
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Disingenuous Piranha |
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#677 |
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Furthermore, you need enough room to sever the brain stem. You can do that by either accessing it from the posterior side of skull cavity, or from the front if you lift the brain. I think I've seen a video where they sever the brain stem by somewhat lifting the brain and reaching underneath, sticking their hands and the necessary tool from the front part, but you still need a skull cavity large enough to facilitate said lifting.
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#678 |
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#679 |
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#680 |
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