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Tags JFK assassination , Kennedy conspiracies

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Old 7th June 2017, 03:46 PM   #281
Axxman300
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
No medical qualifications. Why, you can't use your own knowledge of volume and space to talk about the human skull and brain?
Because pathology is often counter intuitive, hence Pathologists (who have ten years additional schooling before they get their certification).

First, I have linked videos of the surviving Parkland Er doctors who disagree with each other on the head wound, one believing it to be from the rear, the other from the front. BOTH men worked on JFK, and both men physically stood near the President's head.

Right off the bat this should tell you a few things about the nature of the wound, and the nature of doctors. This is also why autopsies are done by specialists trained to examine the dead, and not garden variety MDs.

What you fail to consider is that the original autopsy team was not burdened by public opinion of an alleged conspiracy, and made their evaluations based on the evidence before them (the body). The HSCA doctors did their job in an entirely different social environment: Post Vietnam, post Nixon, and post Watergate. In the 1970s NOBODY trusted the US government on any level, and this attitude is present throughout the hearings.

In 2017 we know so much more background. We know RFK had the brain re-interred with his brother's body. We know RFK shut down lines of investigation post assassination to protect himself and his brother's legacy re: Cuba. We know the Kennedy staff ordered the Secret Service to remove Kennedy's body from Parkland (a clear violation of Texas law) and flew it out of Dallas...

And we now know that it was the Kennedy family, and White House staff that rushed the autopsy...not the FBI, not the CIA - the Kennedys.

With all of these things now out in the open there isn't anything CTists can legitimately hang their hats on; no mob, no CIA hitmen, and not even Castro. We are four months away from the release of the final documents held in the National Archives, and while nobody knows what's in them or what they'll say...my guess is that Lee Oswald will remain the lone killer of JFK.
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Old 7th June 2017, 03:59 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
"Olympic snipers" was a vague reference to NRA Masters, "capable of Olympic competition". From summary of the WC shooting experiments as testified by Ronald Simmons:

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisb...Item%2001A.pdf

And, of course, the fact that even some Lone Nutters are coming around to accepting the research indicating that the scope on the rifle in evidence is was too crappy to use. These experiments used scopes, not iron sights.

Doesn't it bother you that these experiments were presented as evidence of anything? Of course not, you already have your agenda. Meanwhile, your strategy is to use confusion to clog any conversation. Were you one of the guys claiming that adequate noise-suppressors on rifles did not exist in 1963? Boy, that was a bust. Now your strategy is playing dumb when discussing medical evidence. If you don't have a good answer for anything, don't bother responding please.

Bonus quote from Bugliosi's Reclaiming History, in which Bulio argues that Oswald could not have been a professional contract killer because the rifle in evidence did not come with a noise-suppressor:

"Silencers go all the way back to the turn of the twentieth century, and a firearms expert for the Los Angeles Police Department told me that as of 1963 they were already sophisticated enough to “substantially diminish the report” of the weapon and to “alter or disguise the sound,” such as to make it sound like “the hitting of a pile of wood with a hammer” or “the operation of machinery.” He said silencers are effective, and shots at Kennedy from a weapon with the best silencer then available “probably wouldn’t have even been heard above the background noise of the motorcade and crowd” in Dealey Plaza."
The "worlds best snipers and Olympic snipers" jive was a quote from Sylvia Meagher (iirc) that you cut and pasted into one of your posts. You evidently didn't learn anything from trying to work that side of the street, so you come back to it when convenient

How quickly you forget. You're not the first poster in this thread to throw the "Silencer!" flag and you're not the first poster to throw out that particular strawman (somebody said silencers weren't available! wasn't it you?) argument:

From the last thread:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=893

WRT suppressor technology at the time.

https://archive.org/details/milmanua...nd-evaluations

The cans available circa the early sixties were primarily Maxim type or modified Maxim type suppressors, and modern mono-core wipeless designs weren't even on the horizon. Since there was no great consumer market back then and no military/LE market worth producing new designs for, suppressor designs were stagnate.

The fact that suppressors existed isn't in question, the question is: Where is the evidence?

My argument wrt suppressor use in Dallas is the same now as it was before you landed here. There is no evidence that any type of suppressed firearm was in play.

If you believe that you have the actual evidence to prove a second headwound in the same area as the established GSW from the rear post it and stand up for yourself. Posting the same handed-down jive from some other CTist and not standing by your position is weak ****.

I realize that by asking you repeatedly and you avoiding answering it puts you on the defensive, but that's your problem. If you don't like what's going on with my posts, report them. If the moderators see fit to sanction me, that's OK - it's their house, not mine.

If that doesn't happen you have a positive course of action available to you - find a friendlier environment that isn't populated by individuals with experience in the subject matter or familiarity with the material.

As far as citing Bugliosi, once again you fried the irony meter. Talk about Cherry Picking! you might want to read the whole book before citing it to support your CT.

Bugliosi was not making a case for a suppressed firearm being in play, he was giving his opinion (and not a particularly well informed one) about professional killers. In my experience, experienced professional murderers are more a creature of fiction than reality. You can cite Roy DeMeo on the mafiosi side, "Mad Dog" Sullivan from the Westies (who ended up tied to DeMeo at one point) and Tony Spilotro from Vegas, and none of those guys used a long gun to get a job done. Bugliosi was a man of strong opinions, and like anybody else he wasn't always right. He is roughly correct about the sound of a suppressed weapon, but that's no proof that one was in play in Dallas.

Point of fact - there is not one professional mob murder that involved the use of a suppressor equipped rifle - ever - I've had the opportunity to go through the F.B.I. firearms reference collection (read as: armory) at Quantico with a special emphasis on NFA weapons and devices. Lots of pistols w/ cans, lots of SMG's and machine pistols. The suppressed rifles in evidence were in the majority seized as evidence involving crimes other than murder and there was no associated case involving their criminal use, only unregistered NFA violations.

The one established use of a rifle (actually an M1 carbine) by LCN was the murder of Bugsy Siegel, and the piece wasn't suppressed.

The one established use of a suppressed rifle to commit a crime was the nut-job ex-LAPD officer that declared war on LEO's down in southern California - he had legally acquired a suppressed rifle:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...cials-say.html

And used it in his murder spree.

If you have evidence of Mafiosi use, or any particular crime group documented use of suppressed rifles in the commission of murder or any criminal activity, please post it.
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Old 7th June 2017, 04:41 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Neat.

Snipped with respect.
A lot of talk. Notice caliber is NOT mentioned.

How about you put that into the real world of 1963?

How much would a silencer cost?

Who manufactured them?

How easy were they to purchase? Could you find them in any gun shop?

I should point out that there is a long list of reasons Oswald could not have been a professional hit man that would take three pages before we even get to the Carcano.


We get it, you want the conspiracy to be real, but you're using questionable material that has long ago been debunked. Oswald did all the shooting that day, and if there is a conspiracy to be found it is not in the autopsy.
These are easy questions.

1. & 2. Before the NFA, Maxim suppressors were sold legally otc at under $10.00. By the 60's an original Maxim can was under $50.00, w/ the $200.00 tax stamp on top -not much interest from civilians and the U.S. military had their Bell Labs cans and weren't much interested in improved designs. Licensees who were interested in cans built their own for various reasons, some just for fun, other for commercial sales. Having the tax stamp on top of the purchase price was the kill switch on most sales.

Improvised unregistered cans were crude and some of the stuff people came up out of thin air were laughable if not dangerous to the shooter and nearby folks.

3. Registered cans could be sold by a licensed dealer w/ an FFL (no SOT required in those days) but because of the complexity of state laws along with the federal regs, many dealers, even dealers in states that allowed for NFA weapon or device possession, would not facilitate transfers.

Machine guns of the unregistered sort were much easier to acquire than suppressors - the military use of cans in WWII and Korea was so limited that there were few that could go walkies, and guys making them for themselves w/o the nicety of licensing usually kept it to themselves.

Back in the day, before the '68 GCA and amnesty I probably didn't see or use more than a dozen cans, and my swag would be I handled far more than a hundred MG's.

The old man had a .30 Caliber Maxim can and a suppressed High-Standard .22 pistol, and that's where my first hands-on education began. The rifle can was good for 10-12 rounds slow fired through an 1903 type before it needed a repacking, the pistol was better. First round out of the Springfield cold bore was pretty quiet, subsequent rounds less so unless you'd limit the firing to one round every five minutes or so - on a very hot day, the can was less effective right off the bat. Heat is the enemy of suppressor effectiveness in general.
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Old 7th June 2017, 05:00 PM   #284
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Who cares about some guy's hunk of junk? I've already pointed out that this friggin thing was available in 1963, and is semi-automatic.

Last edited by MicahJava; 7th June 2017 at 05:03 PM.
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Old 7th June 2017, 05:02 PM   #285
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
I can see the bullet enter Kennedy's skull on the Zapruder Film, it tracks right back to the 6th floor of the TSBD.
I beg everybody else to hold the phone on all other discussion- I gotta hear about this. Please tell me more.
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Old 7th June 2017, 05:15 PM   #286
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Who cares about some guy's hunk of junk? I've already pointed out that this friggin thing was available in 1963, and is semi-automatic.
Then get right to explaining how the terminal ballistic performance of .22 long rifle fits in with the documented GSW evidence.

Any evidence about mob hits w/ suppressed rifles, or do you have to search your favorites list for the appropriate CTist to cut n paste from?
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Old 7th June 2017, 05:28 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
I beg everybody else to hold the phone on all other discussion- I gotta hear about this. Please tell me more.
You've been holding the phone on answering questions for so long, what's the difference? You still scurry away from answering.

Are you saying that nobody shot JFK since it was an impossible shot? Where did the silenced shot come from and how did someone make it if it was impossile?

Please don't slink away from answering these questions again.
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Old 7th June 2017, 08:50 PM   #288
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Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
You've been holding the phone on answering questions for so long, what's the difference? You still scurry away from answering.

Are you saying that nobody shot JFK since it was an impossible shot? Where did the silenced shot come from and how did someone make it if it was impossile?

Please don't slink away from answering these questions again.
100% truth - much of my enjoyment in this thread comes from the gems of technical and practical ignorance and pseudo-scientific nonsense posted by JFK CTists.

I've had to actually print up some of the individual posts for evidence because friends do not believe that someone could assert that the noise created by firing a weapon is generated by the projectile in flight rather than the expansion of gas that propels it, or a headspace gauge is a tool used to determine that a firearm has been fired (and when...) or what our old friends, The World's Best Snipers and Olympic Snipers say about LHO's performance.

So, thanks to all the folks that make it possible - the people who can read a word and spell the word but really have no idea what the words they write mean. The folks that believe in magic, the folks that believe mistakes made by law enforcement or any individual employed at any level in the government are the result of conspiracy or at the very least the Illuminati, or the Jews, or the oil men, red-headed women, whatever. Thank you for believing we're incapable of making mistakes.

There's a phrase to describe good writing - "it writes itself" - on this site, the CTists don't just write their posts (to be honest, CnP now and then) they provide valuable entertainment for folks that need a good laugh.
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Old 7th June 2017, 09:01 PM   #289
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Olympic snipers? Is that the Italian biathalon team or something?


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Old 7th June 2017, 09:15 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Olympic snipers? Is that the Italian biathalon team or something?


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Everybody knows who put the six bullets in Mussolini's head.

600 Italian sharpshooters.
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Old 7th June 2017, 11:03 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
These are easy questions.

1. & 2. Before the NFA, Maxim suppressors were sold legally otc at under $10.00. By the 60's an original Maxim can was under $50.00, w/ the $200.00 tax stamp on top -not much interest from civilians and the U.S. military had their Bell Labs cans and weren't much interested in improved designs. Licensees who were interested in cans built their own for various reasons, some just for fun, other for commercial sales. Having the tax stamp on top of the purchase price was the kill switch on most sales.

Improvised unregistered cans were crude and some of the stuff people came up out of thin air were laughable if not dangerous to the shooter and nearby folks.

3. Registered cans could be sold by a licensed dealer w/ an FFL (no SOT required in those days) but because of the complexity of state laws along with the federal regs, many dealers, even dealers in states that allowed for NFA weapon or device possession, would not facilitate transfers.

Machine guns of the unregistered sort were much easier to acquire than suppressors - the military use of cans in WWII and Korea was so limited that there were few that could go walkies, and guys making them for themselves w/o the nicety of licensing usually kept it to themselves.

Back in the day, before the '68 GCA and amnesty I probably didn't see or use more than a dozen cans, and my swag would be I handled far more than a hundred MG's.

The old man had a .30 Caliber Maxim can and a suppressed High-Standard .22 pistol, and that's where my first hands-on education began. The rifle can was good for 10-12 rounds slow fired through an 1903 type before it needed a repacking, the pistol was better. First round out of the Springfield cold bore was pretty quiet, subsequent rounds less so unless you'd limit the firing to one round every five minutes or so - on a very hot day, the can was less effective right off the bat. Heat is the enemy of suppressor effectiveness in general.
Thanks for that. Paladin Press has the lone comprehensive history on silencers but it's $66 ($99 if you want the companion book). This silencer nonsense has only popped up in the past four years, and is advanced by people who don't shoot, or know people who do.

After last year's exchange with that other guy I did find a picture of Carlos Hathcock in Vietnam with a suppressor on his rifle, but it seems to be a one-off pose, I don't think he used them in the field more than a handful of times if at all.

All of this is a sideshow. We know what the weapon was, and we know who owned it, and we know who fired it.

CTers need a circus, not a factual presentation. If they bothered to look into assassination they'd know a Dealey Plaza scenario is a joke, even with one shooter there were too many moving parts for any kind of advanced planning, and too many things that could have gone wrong for even a two-man team. The prime example being the weather, had rain been in the forecast the limo has its bubble-top, and Oswald has to shoot someone else.

I keep saying that Oswald only had to do it once, and luck was in his favor that day. It is really that simple and that tragic.
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Old 7th June 2017, 11:07 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Who cares about some guy's hunk of junk? I've already pointed out that this friggin thing was available in 1963, and is semi-automatic.
Neat, but no .22 rifle was used in Dealey Plaza.

A .22 round makes the 6.5x 52mm round look like artillery.
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Old 7th June 2017, 11:09 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
I beg everybody else to hold the phone on all other discussion- I gotta hear about this. Please tell me more.
Just try to view the Zapruder Film honestly for once.
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Old 8th June 2017, 04:56 AM   #294
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Just try to view the Zapruder Film honestly for once.
I was searching for Pat Speer information yesterday and came upon Dale Myers website basically describing his video animation of the assassination. I remember both the video and the CT's attempting to throw criticism and refuting the animation.

http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2008/05...debunkers.html

And then there is his FAQ debunking the criticism of his work

http://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/faq_01.htm

Very nice work of the sequence of events in a three dimensional framework.
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Old 8th June 2017, 08:58 AM   #295
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Just try to view the Zapruder Film honestly for once.
Please go on.
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Old 8th June 2017, 09:07 AM   #296
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Originally Posted by bknight View Post
I was searching for Pat Speer information yesterday and came upon Dale Myers website basically describing his video animation of the assassination. I remember both the video and the CT's attempting to throw criticism and refuting the animation.

http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2008/05...debunkers.html

And then there is his FAQ debunking the criticism of his work

http://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/faq_01.htm

Very nice work of the sequence of events in a three dimensional framework.
Here is Speer's chapter on the SBT animations, with responses to the FAQ section of Dale's website: http://www.patspeer.com/chapter12c%3Aanimania

Nobody in their right mind should take Dale seriously. All we know about his animation is a clip from a propaganda television special and some screenshots and writings from his website. He has not released his computer data. Is this the behavior of a man who used photographic evidence to prove one of the biggest forensic controversies ever? No.

Look at this funny bit on his website where his JFK project was "reviewed" by the Z-Axis animation company: http://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/zaxis.htm

Let's take a look at the website of Z-Axis to see where they display their finest work: http://www.zaxis.com/experience/our-history/

These people do little more than create CARTOONS as explanatory tools in court cases. Let's see their top 8 list:

1. A 3D cartoon of the Deepwater Horizon oil spill disaster.

2. A 3D computer model of a building.

3. A 3D cartoon of how a CD drive works.

4. Helped create several 3D cartoons of an old man with arthritis.

5. Helped create several 3D cartoons showing why smoking is bad for you.

6. A 3D animation of the WTC destruction with the planes crashing into the Twin Towers, which calls itself Finite Element Analysis but certainly is not a comprehensive FEA that models the physics of that event in the fullest, realest sense.

7. A 3D cartoon explaining how to use a computer to surf the internet.

8. Another 3D cartoon showing why smoking is bad for you.

This is Dale Meyers' "peer-review", people! What the Z-Axis company does has no relation on the project's intention to "trace over" the Zapruder Film and other films of Dealey Plaza to create a near-perfect 3D recreation.

This kind of behavior should cast doubt on any other work he did on the JFK case. For all we know, he has fabricated interviews.

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Old 8th June 2017, 09:20 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
What the Z-Axis company does has no relation on the project's intention to "trace over" the Zapruder Film and other films of Dealey Plaza to create a near-perfect 3D recreation.
Please state your qualifications for claiming that what this company does has, as a technical matter, nothing to do with what Myers created. Again, I'm interested in your expertise in 3D computer animation, any degrees earned in the field of computer science and graphics, or any other relevant credentials.
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Old 8th June 2017, 09:20 AM   #298
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
...Inconsequential filibustering snipped...
Shouldn't you be busy collating the evidence to prove a second headwound from a .22 long rifle projectile?
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Old 8th June 2017, 09:23 AM   #299
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
For all we know, he has fabricated interviews.
So you believe it's okay for you to suggest that Myers is a liar and a fabricator because "for all we know" he might be? Do you consider that inference to be rational on your part? Do you consider it to be ethical on your part?
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Old 8th June 2017, 09:32 AM   #300
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Thanks for that. Paladin Press has the lone comprehensive history on silencers but it's $66 ($99 if you want the companion book). This silencer nonsense has only popped up in the past four years, and is advanced by people who don't shoot, or know people who do.

After last year's exchange with that other guy I did find a picture of Carlos Hathcock in Vietnam with a suppressor on his rifle, but it seems to be a one-off pose, I don't think he used them in the field more than a handful of times if at all.

All of this is a sideshow. We know what the weapon was, and we know who owned it, and we know who fired it.

CTers need a circus, not a factual presentation. If they bothered to look into assassination they'd know a Dealey Plaza scenario is a joke, even with one shooter there were too many moving parts for any kind of advanced planning, and too many things that could have gone wrong for even a two-man team. The prime example being the weather, had rain been in the forecast the limo has its bubble-top, and Oswald has to shoot someone else.

I keep saying that Oswald only had to do it once, and luck was in his favor that day. It is really that simple and that tragic.
This is the book I recommend on the subject:

https://www.amazon.com/Silencers-198.../dp/0873642694

Silencers in the 1980's - Great Designs, Great Designers.

Truby hits all the high spots and a few of the lows, including one idiot that sold mail order "kits" prior to 5-19-86 that eventually appeared as a fugitive subject on "America's Most Wanted." I had encountered the guy at a show way back when and would be willing to testify as to his Sovereign Citizen nuttiness.

He also included his interview with a licensed manufacturer I've referenced previously, but the guy was cagey - the internal parts he allowed Truby to photograph wasn't the internals he had designed and used - he did so to preclude interested non-licensed individuals (and unscrupulous licensees...) from copping his work.
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Old 8th June 2017, 09:34 AM   #301
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Here is Speer's chapter on the SBT animations...

<snipped scurrying away nonsense>
Was JFK not shot in the head since it was impossible for "snipers" to make the shot?

Did someone with a silenced rifle make the impossible shot after all but it wasn't impossible for them?

You really need to answer these questions, MicahJava. At least be honest with yourself.
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Old 8th June 2017, 09:57 AM   #302
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Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
Was JFK not shot in the head since it was impossible for "snipers" to make the shot?

Did someone with a silenced rifle make the impossible shot after all but it wasn't impossible for them?

You really need to answer these questions, MicahJava. At least be honest with yourself.
I already corrected your misconception on like the first page of this thread. Please do not bother me any more about it.
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Old 8th June 2017, 10:08 AM   #303
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
I already corrected your misconception on like the first page of this thread. Please do not bother me any more about it.
Didn't Kathy Griffin just say that?

Get crackin' on that .22 long rifle evidence, I'm looking forward to reading it.
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Old 8th June 2017, 10:31 AM   #304
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Correction to post 282.

Good link for the Frankford Suppressor evaluation testing:

https://archive.org/stream/milmanual...ge/n0/mode/2up
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Old 8th June 2017, 11:18 AM   #305
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Didn't Kathy Griffin just say that?

Get crackin' on that .22 long rifle evidence, I'm looking forward to reading it.
We have- or I have been talking about strong evidence against the official shooting for more than one thread now. I noticed an explosion of crap when the subject slightly deviates from the brain removal problem, how it relates to Finck's statements, etc.

I've explained that issue more than enough, everybody watching should state their overall opinion on it rather than continue asking questions that often don't make any sense.
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Old 8th June 2017, 11:30 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
everybody watching should state their overall opinion on it rather than continue asking questions that often don't make any sense.
You still don't get what ISF is about, and that makes you like several other CTs who have been resident here. Many of us here are not interested in assuming the burden of proof for any "overall opinion." Instead, we like to test the assertions of others--including CTs--in order to explore what they know or think they know, along with the assumptions--often irrational and illogical--that lead them to think the way they do. You keep trying to make this thread into a CT thread, but it's only superficially that, and for a larger purpose. As you know, there are JFK CT threads where you can duke it out all day about particular claims. Here, you are expected to think carefully about your claims, your thought process, your assumptions, your qualifications, and the limits of your knowledge.

Last edited by OKBob; 8th June 2017 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 8th June 2017, 11:39 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
We have- or I have been talking about strong evidence against the official shooting for more than one thread now. I noticed an explosion of crap when the subject slightly deviates from the brain removal problem, how it relates to Finck's statements, etc.

I've explained that issue more than enough, everybody watching should state their overall opinion on it rather than continue asking questions that often don't make any sense.
I believe the questions are simple and clear cut and your reluctance to do anything other than point at someone else's work w/o reference to the known evidence speaks for itself.

You have no answers. You have no evidence. You have unrelated facts not in evidence you wish to have considered as if they constituted evidence rather than opinion, recollection or conjecture - you might well be a master of conjecture but that doesn't mean much in the face of the in-hand evidence that has been determined as genuine.

If you feel the need to state your overall opinion on the assassination have at it, but isn't it clear to you what the opinion is of the active posters in this thread?
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Old 8th June 2017, 11:46 AM   #308
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Why talk vague when you can talk about specific issues?

The part of the skull some here think is the entry crater would have been chipped off in the process of removing the brain. But Dr. Finck arrived at the autopsy after the brain had already been removed and he always said he could examine the crater in the intact skull just fine. This indicates the hole they examined was lower in the skull, near the EOP, and not 4 inches above the EOP like the HSCA put it.

Rebuttal?
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Old 8th June 2017, 11:51 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
We have- or I have been talking about strong evidence against the official shooting for more than one thread now. I noticed an explosion of crap when the subject slightly deviates from the brain removal problem, how it relates to Finck's statements, etc.

I've explained that issue more than enough, everybody watching should state their overall opinion on it rather than continue asking questions that often don't make any sense.
No, you're the guy at the office who has pulled out the TV dinner that has been in the breakroom freezer since 1986, and has heated it up, and now ask everyone to take a bite.

You are looking for conspiracy, not facts. You take obvious facts like the head wound and deliberately obfuscate them with cherry-picked statements that leave you talking in circles...sometimes in the same post.
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Old 8th June 2017, 11:52 AM   #310
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I just found out that almost this exact point was argued by Joseph N. Riley in 1994 (Riley "holds a Ph.D. in Neuroscience, specializing in neuroanatomy and experimental neuropathology"):

"...A semi-circular skull defect has been identified as part of an exit wound. The location of this defect depends upon the interpretation of the autopsy photographs. The interpretations to date (by the Clark Panel and the HSCA forensics panel) are in error. These interpretations fail to appreciate basic neuroanatomical relationships (unfortunately, there was no neuroanatomist on either panel -- parietal foramina alone are enough to orient the photographs), are contradictory, and ignore the obvious (it would be irresponsible and stupid to try to remove the brain if so much skull were left, as it must be in the official interpretations of the photographs)..."

http://jfkhistory.com/riehl/What_Struck_John.html
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Old 8th June 2017, 11:54 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
No, you're the guy at the office who has pulled out the TV dinner that has been in the breakroom freezer since 1986, and has heated it up, and now ask everyone to take a bite.

You are looking for conspiracy, not facts. You take obvious facts like the head wound and deliberately obfuscate them with cherry-picked statements that leave you talking in circles...sometimes in the same post.
And you're the guy who thinks you can see the bullet on the Zapruder Film.
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Old 8th June 2017, 11:54 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Why talk vague when you can talk about specific issues?

The part of the skull some here think is the entry crater would have been chipped off in the process of removing the brain. But Dr. Finck arrived at the autopsy after the brain had already been removed and he always said he could examine the crater in the intact skull just fine. This indicates the hole they examined was lower in the skull, near the EOP, and not 4 inches above the EOP like the HSCA put it.

Rebuttal?
Does it?

I already posted a link - from a CT site of all things - where Humes addressed how the brain was removed from the skull (hint: they used a saw like they always do).

This means that you either don't read our links, or ignore the information within, or simply do not understand the information.

I suspect it's all three.
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Old 8th June 2017, 11:55 AM   #313
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
And you're the guy who thinks you can see the bullet on the Zapruder Film.
Nope, just where it hits JFK in the back of the head.
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Old 8th June 2017, 12:05 PM   #314
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Does it?

I already posted a link - from a CT site of all things - where Humes addressed how the brain was removed from the skull (hint: they used a saw like they always do).

This means that you either don't read our links, or ignore the information within, or simply do not understand the information.

I suspect it's all three.
CT site... Humes' testimony to the ARRB? Yeah, we've covered it. It doesn't say anything there that explains how you think it happened. I think one time you were bold enough to use the word "lunchbox" to explain how the doctors removed the brain through the skull cavity, but didn't elaborate when pressed because it didn't make any sense.

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Old 8th June 2017, 01:12 PM   #315
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Why talk vague when you can talk about specific issues?

The part of the skull some here think is the entry crater would have been chipped off in the process of removing the brain. But Dr. Finck arrived at the autopsy after the brain had already been removed and he always said he could examine the crater in the intact skull just fine. This indicates the hole they examined was lower in the skull, near the EOP, and not 4 inches above the EOP like the HSCA put it.

Rebuttal?
The vagarity of memory and human frailty.

We have the murder weapon.

The murder weapon is connected to an individual.

The individual was employed at a facility in the area where the murder occurred.

The weapon was found at the facility.

The individual was in the wind.

The individual was stopped by an LEO who was shot and killed by the individual.

The individual was taken into custody with the weapon used to murder the officer in hand.

Ballistic evidence connects the weapons to the victims.

Playing pin-the-headwound doesn't amount to exculpatory evidence.

Now would be the moment where you provide something other than speculation to back up your support for some other CTist's flight of fancy, or maybe you could go to work on providing evidence of your suppressed .22 LR speculation.
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Old 8th June 2017, 01:16 PM   #316
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
And you're the guy who thinks you can see the bullet on the Zapruder Film.
You're asserting that you can hear suppressed rifle fire and detect forensic anomalies from 54 years in the past.

If we start a fantasy assassination league you're sure to earn the out-of-thin-air award
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Old 8th June 2017, 02:24 PM   #317
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Here is Speer's chapter on the SBT animations, with responses to the FAQ section of Dale's website: http://www.patspeer.com/chapter12c%3Aanimania

Nobody in their right mind should take Dale seriously. All we know about his animation is a clip from a propaganda television special and some screenshots and writings from his website. He has not released his computer data. Is this the behavior of a man who used photographic evidence to prove one of the biggest forensic controversies ever? No.
I'm sure that Speer thinks that, however if you do some reading, which you haven't, Myers discusses why he hasn't released the original data files. You call the Discovery channel and History channel as "propaganda"? Why do you use such terms? Because they produce films that don't happen to conform to yours and other CT's beliefs?
Quote:



Look at this funny bit on his website where his JFK project was "reviewed" by the Z-Axis animation company: http://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/zaxis.htm

Let's take a look at the website of Z-Axis to see where they display their finest work: http://www.zaxis.com/experience/our-history/

These people do little more than create CARTOONS as explanatory tools in court cases. Let's see their top 8 list:

1. A 3D cartoon of the Deepwater Horizon oil spill disaster.

2. A 3D computer model of a building.

3. A 3D cartoon of how a CD drive works.

4. Helped create several 3D cartoons of an old man with arthritis.

5. Helped create several 3D cartoons showing why smoking is bad for you.

6. A 3D animation of the WTC destruction with the planes crashing into the Twin Towers, which calls itself Finite Element Analysis but certainly is not a comprehensive FEA that models the physics of that event in the fullest, realest sense.

7. A 3D cartoon explaining how to use a computer to surf the internet.

8. Another 3D cartoon showing why smoking is bad for you.
Yes that is what they do, is there anything wrong with programming an event so that it can be viewed from ANY angle? They were asked to evaluate what had been created and pass judgement on the validity of the presentation. Their analysis was, again if you read more was that the animation was accurate depiction of the Zapruder film, nothing more nothing less.
Quote:

This is Dale Meyers' "peer-review", people! What the Z-Axis company does has no relation on the project's intention to "trace over" the Zapruder Film and other films of Dealey Plaza to create a near-perfect 3D recreation.
Again you have failed to read anything but Speer's comments which are a layman's attempt to draw conclusions which are not correct. Read Myers and gain the understanding that the animation was NOT to "trace over" Zapruder, but to construct an accurate animation that conforms to what the Zapruder film shows and to do it in a way so the viewing angle may be changed to any angle. All that Z-Axis was asked to do is to verify that the animation was as accurate as possible with all the error cones of perception taken into account. They were. Z-Axis was not asked to support or defend any particular theory of the assassination. Is there anything inherently in error to have a 3d company review a 3d animation?
Quote:

This kind of behavior should cast doubt on any other work he did on the JFK case. For all we know, he has fabricated interviews.
There is obvious friction between the two men and its pretty obvious that both comment on each other's work. The work should be judged by its accuracy, not by peoples' passion toward each other. I'm not sure if the last comment is your or Speer's, but to withhold proprietary method's doesn't appear to be unrealistic to me.

There is no evidence that any interview was fabricated, if you have any then cite it, otherwise keep to facts not opinions, not in evidence.
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Old 8th June 2017, 02:50 PM   #318
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
I already corrected your misconception on like the first page of this thread. Please do not bother me any more about it.
Your untruths are running away with you. Is this how the one CT website you depend on for your opinions tells you to behave?

What was the point of all your posts about how various others couldn't make the same shot Oswald did? Did you even have a point? Did your one CT website not tell you where to go with the argument when you were called on it?

You should really be more angry at that one website than you are with the people calling you on your lack of knowledge.
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Old 8th June 2017, 05:35 PM   #319
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Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
Your untruths are running away with you. Is this how the one CT website you depend on for your opinions tells you to behave?

What was the point of all your posts about how various others couldn't make the same shot Oswald did? Did you even have a point? Did your one CT website not tell you where to go with the argument when you were called on it?

You should really be more angry at that one website than you are with the people calling you on your lack of knowledge.
It's the CTist version of the old Jackie Mason bit about Ronald Reagan and the then-current budget deficit:

(Gesticulate) There is No Deficit!(/Gesticulate)

Ctist debate tactics 101 - declare it's a settled issue (and hope like hell nobody notices it isn't) It actually works for certain politicians w/o any relationship to CT's People expect Politicians to lie their ass off and take no offense.

The way this particular line of fantasy is going, we can reasonably expect that there will be more pin-the-headwound jive w/o anything to back it up other than wishes and speculation, the ignoring of reasonable questions, answering questions not asked, the always popular strawman citing assertions not made in argument (has any anti- CTist ever claimed suppressors didn't exist in '63?) and the attempts to tie in every other non-related CT that they can come up with using the time honored false equivalence argument, something along the lines of "denying the obvious evidence of (fill in the blank) in the conspiracy of JFK's assassination is just like saying the Twin Towers collapsed on 9/11 because of some fire!"

I'm just hoping for some more gems of ignorance. The headspace gauge as a testing methodology for determining when a weapon was fired was such a hit that to this day, folks I showed the actual post to have asked me to later tell the story for the edification of those not present when the original story was told. I'm still asked about it and the unintended humor of that assertion hasn't worn out yet.

While I was on vacation out of state and visiting a SOT friend of mine, after I and the guy I was traveling with told him the story, he didn't believe it happened. He didn't believe that we were lying, he thought we had somehow misunderstood because that assertion is too crazy to believe for people that are experienced in the subject matter

I got on his computer and pulled up the post - Sept last year iirc - then he believed it and we had a pretty good laugh.

That's what this thread is - an opportunity for the uneducated to explore creative story-telling about subjects they have no knowledge of and the bad sense to put it in writing.
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Old 8th June 2017, 07:36 PM   #320
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I would pay money for a time machine just to see the look on any hitman's face when he's handed a .22 rifle with a silencer, and told he has to shoot Kennedy in a motorcade.

Pretty sure it would be the same as when he's told there is a second shooter who's going to be the patsy, and he's armed with a 6.5x52mm.

I would love to be there when this assassination scenario is hatched, and later approved. Multiple gunmen nobody sees, or actually fires their weapons, and we pin it all on a guy like Lee Oswald, a glory-hound who would turn us all in for that medal/reward/fame.
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