ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 28th May 2017, 05:32 PM   #1
thewholesoul
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,183
Is The Earth Spinning or Stationary?

Is The Earth Spinning or Stationary?

There are only two legs to the heliocentric globe theory, namely the spin and it's shape. I would like to focus on the first. We can display all evidence/arguments for spin and all evidence/arguments for a stationary Earth and see where the chips fall.

I used to believe the Earth was a spinning globe. I still like to consider myself a rational person who is persuaded by facts and logic over opinion and sentiment. I am not a flat earther, I am not completely convinced yet that it's true however I will make arguments in its defense. To begin...

As a result of the planets axial rotation, Earth's atmosphere is also said to be in constant motion and it has been calculated to be moving at 1000mph at the equator in an eastwardly direction.

According to NASA in a document entitled "Rotational Motion and Rocket Launches", they say (on page no. 3)

"In order to launch a rocket you have to get it going pretty fast. Rocket fuel is expensive. Therefore rockets always launch towards the East. Why?

Answer: So that the rocket can get a speed boost from the earths rotation"


According to QUORA the speed boost is quantified

"The best place to launch a rocket to orbit is anywhere on the equator. That's because if you're on the equator and you're launching the rocket eastwards, Earth's rotation will give you about 400m/s of speed in advance"

The atmosphere is made of air, air is matter and matter in motion produces a force. It makes sense that NASA would exploit this rotational force to achieve escape velocity, this is evidence that this rotational force actually exists in physical reality.

Yet, despite this fact, we do not feel this atmospheric motion with our senses evolved to detect air movement. Neither can
can we detect this atmospheric motion with our instruments designed to detect air movement. Indeed, if the atmosphere of Earth was in fact stationary how else could we prove that if not by our inability to sense any motion or measure any movement?

There also appears to be a contradiction. How come we don't feel or measure any rotational force but NASA's rockets do?

Last edited by thewholesoul; 28th May 2017 at 05:34 PM.
thewholesoul is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 05:41 PM   #2
Jack by the hedge
Safely Ignored
 
Jack by the hedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 8,456
The atmosphere is moving at the same speed and in the same direction as the planet's surface. So we don't feel a thousand mile per hour gale at the equator because we would only feel a difference in speed.

Rocket launches do not gain acceleration from wind force. They gain a benefit by moving to the equator where everything (the land, the launch pad, the rocket and the air they will fly through) is all moving from west to east at several hundred metres per second.

If you try to jump off a rotating carousel, you'll find that if you jump forward in the direction of its rotation, you land on the ground going even faster because the speed of your leap forward is added to the speed of the carousel's rotation. If you try to jump off backwards you'll probably fall flat on your backside as the velocity of your leap will likely be less than the carousel's in the opposite direction, so summing the two means you'll land going backwards.

Last edited by Jack by the hedge; 28th May 2017 at 05:49 PM.
Jack by the hedge is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 05:48 PM   #3
Axxman300
Graduate Poster
 
Axxman300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 1,771
Is this a real post or a parody post?
__________________
Disingenuous Piranha
Axxman300 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 05:48 PM   #4
Fast Eddie B
Illuminator
 
Fast Eddie B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA
Posts: 4,346
Wasn't one pointless thread enough?
__________________
"God is not a magician" - Pope Francis

"I doubt that!" - James Randi
Fast Eddie B is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 05:57 PM   #5
Myriad
Hyperthetical
 
Myriad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 12,912
Originally Posted by thewholesoul View Post
Yet, despite this fact, we do not feel this atmospheric motion with our senses evolved to detect air movement.

Nah, we feel it all the time, but our brains have evolved to ignore it. It's like a strong smell that you get so used to that you don't smell it any more. Otherwise, the constant blast of supersonic moving air would be so distracting we couldn't concentrate on anything else, like finding food or reproducing. (This problem and adaptation go way back in evolutionary time, of course. "We" in the previous sentences includes pretty much all surface-dwelling multicellular species.)

In fact we're so accustomed to living in a 750mph (in the mid latitudes where I live) east wind that when weather phenomena cause it to be a little less, like 740mph, we actually feel it (and the weather forecasters report it) as a 10 mph wind from the west!
__________________
A zÝmbie once bit my sister...
Myriad is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 06:38 PM   #6
thewholesoul
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,183
Hey guys, thanks for the comments. I will make a cup of tea and get responding.
thewholesoul is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 06:40 PM   #7
fuelair
Cythraul Enfys
 
fuelair's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 54,509
Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Is this a real post or a parody post?
Due to rules I cannot say what it is accurately - beyond clearly wrong.
__________________
There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed.

Wash this space!

We fight for the Lady Babylon!!!
fuelair is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 06:42 PM   #8
fuelair
Cythraul Enfys
 
fuelair's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 54,509
Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Is this a real post or a parody post?
I hope the second, but I am betting on an opposite of the first.
__________________
There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed.

Wash this space!

We fight for the Lady Babylon!!!
fuelair is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 06:52 PM   #9
Jim_MDP
Philosopher
 
Jim_MDP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: N.Cal/S.Or
Posts: 5,527
Originally Posted by thewholesoul View Post
Hey guys, thanks for the comments. I will make a cup of tea and get responding.

Yeah man, don't let the bastards get you down... fight the power.










I see you learned nothing in your seven year absence.
__________________
----------------------
Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything.

"Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust.
"Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000.
Jim_MDP is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 06:57 PM   #10
thewholesoul
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,183
Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
The atmosphere is moving at the same speed
Has your claim ever been actually measured with a physical instrument? Or was the 1000mph velocity calculated?

Does air actually move at the identical velocity of a spinning solid? I don't believe that is physically possible on an open system. I would expect that the spinning solid has a greater velocity that the surrounding air. I would expect that the air nearer to the surface of the spinning solid to move faster than the air on the outer rim of the atmosphere.

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
and in the same direction as the planet's surface
Has this uniform constant eastwardly motion you claim exists, has it been actually measured with physical instruments?

Also, you assume that air will travel WITH the spinning solid. However when I move my hand through the air, when I walk, when I drive a car or ride a bicycle the air does not travel WITH me, I travel through it. In a closed system I can Iagine the air traveling with the spinning solid, but the earth is enclosed by a vacuum, this hardly constitutes a barrier.

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
.So we don't feel a thousand mile per hour gale at the equator because we would only feel a difference in speed.
I don't understand. Assuming you are right and there physically exists a constant eastwards rotation of the atmosphere then why do we not feel it when we travel westwards? We should.


Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Rocket launches do not gain acceleration from wind force. They gain a benefit by moving to the equator where everything (the land, the launch pad, the rocket and the air they will fly through) is all moving from west to east at several hundred metres per second.
But they do gain acceleration from earths rotation. The only rational reason they physically gain greater velocity is if they are subject to a physical force. Flying westward, walking westward, we are moving against this force, this force we don't feel but rockets do? Something doesn't smell right.

To give an analogy. Imagine we are all on boats in a donut shaped swimming pool. In the centre there is a rotating cylinder which causes the waters around the cylinder to rotate at 10mph in the same direction. Boats travelling with the rotation will move faster and further, (like what NASA claims to do to achieve escape velocity) but boats moving against the constant unidirectional force WILL necessarily and without exception move slower. There must be friction. Can you point out the flaw in my analogy?


Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
If you try to jump off a rotating carousel, you'll find that if you jump forward in the direction of its rotation, you land on the ground going even faster because the speed of your leap forward is added to the speed of the carousel's rotation
I agree.

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
If you try to jump off backwards you'll probably fall flat on your backside as the velocity of your leap will likely be less than the carousel's in the opposite direction, so summing the two means you'll land going backwards.
I didn't quite follow this part. either way you are assuming that the earth is rotating. Why not copy past some evidence or proofs of earths rotation and post them.

All the best

Last edited by thewholesoul; 28th May 2017 at 07:08 PM.
thewholesoul is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 07:00 PM   #11
beachnut
Penultimate Amazing
 
beachnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 24,744
The earth is spinning, to say otherwise is insanity, or stupidity. An anti-science BS thread.
__________________
"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen" - Albert Einstein
"... education as the means of developing our greatest abilities" - JFK
https://folding.stanford.edu/ fold with your computer - join team 13232
beachnut is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 07:02 PM   #12
Foster Zygote
Dental Floss Tycoon
 
Foster Zygote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 16,913
Originally Posted by thewholesoul View Post
How come we don't feel or measure any rotational force but NASA's rockets do?
For the same reason a passenger on an airliner doesn't feel a 575 mph wind in his face while eating his packet of peanuts.
__________________
Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone.
Foster Zygote is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 07:02 PM   #13
marplots
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 29,074
I don't understand how the sun works.
marplots is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 07:03 PM   #14
Horatius
NWO Kitty Wrangler
 
Horatius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 25,812
Originally Posted by thewholesoul View Post
The atmosphere is made of air, air is matter and matter in motion produces a force. It makes sense that NASA would exploit this rotational force to achieve escape velocity, this is evidence that this rotational force actually exists in physical reality.


Except that it's not a force of the wind that they are using. Indeed, it's not even a force at all, it's merely the velocity inherent in being on the equator. In fact, the air is a big part of what makes launching from Earth such a pain in the ass, because atmospheric drag acts against us for the first 100 miles or so. Go play Kerbal Space Program for a few weeks to see if you can figure this out.

Think about this: launching from the equator of any rotating body would benefit from the same effect, even if that body is an airless moon. In that case, your notion of a "force" that is due to a "wind" is clearly impossible, so how is it we can derive the same type of benefit?
__________________
Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd
Horatius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 07:03 PM   #15
Jim_MDP
Philosopher
 
Jim_MDP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: N.Cal/S.Or
Posts: 5,527
Originally Posted by thewholesoul View Post
... Why not copy past some evidence or proofs of earths rotation and post them.

That quote alone proves you're back and just looking for a new way to still be a "truther".

An it would be nice if you'd edit that post to clean up all the broken quote tags... it's nigh unreadable as is. Just askin'.
__________________
----------------------
Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything.

"Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust.
"Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000.
Jim_MDP is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 07:05 PM   #16
Horatius
NWO Kitty Wrangler
 
Horatius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 25,812
Originally Posted by thewholesoul View Post
Why not copy past some evidence or proofs of earths rotation and post them.

All the best

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foucault_pendulum
__________________
Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd
Horatius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 07:13 PM   #17
thewholesoul
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,183
Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Is this a real post or a parody post?
Warm regards axman.

It's real alright. I don't believe the earth is spinning. I believe it's stationary. Present the number one proof you have that it is spinning at 1000mph

Peace
thewholesoul is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 07:16 PM   #18
thewholesoul
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,183
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
Wasn't one pointless thread enough?
It never is eddie
thewholesoul is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 07:23 PM   #19
beachnut
Penultimate Amazing
 
beachnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 24,744
We can post this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foucault_pendulum
But the OP author ignores science and uses BS. This would be a waste of time to post if not for the ability to watch and do other things as the anti-science woo flows freely and unabated by science, evidence, reason, knowledge and all things rational.

We can explain knowing the earth rotates is easy to understand with a simple thought experiment... it will be ignored.

As the anti-science expert in woo ignores all reason...
http://scienceblogs.com/startswithab...we-know-the-e/
The earth continues to rotate, and the stars appear to be turning around the north star, and there will be no rational why for the anti-science expert to explain; there will be no math, no science no physics.

OP provides proof of regression, of more than 2,000 years. People figured out the earth rotates long ago. The woo attack on science continues, a celebration of ignorance.

Since the world does not turn in the OP's authors world, is it perpetual dusk/dawn, or too hot for life, or too cold for life.

Someone misses the sunrise and sunsets in some fantasy anti-science world of woo; what would the liar in chief say? Sad...
__________________
"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen" - Albert Einstein
"... education as the means of developing our greatest abilities" - JFK
https://folding.stanford.edu/ fold with your computer - join team 13232
beachnut is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 07:29 PM   #20
thewholesoul
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,183
Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Except that it's not a force of the wind that they are using.
Warm regards Horatous and cool name!

Did I say the force was wind? the force nasa are claiming to use is the force of the entire atmosphere in physical unidirectional motion caused by the axial rotation of the planet.

Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Indeed, it's not even a force at all
What physically causes the " speed boost" then? There must be a transfer of energy in order to gain velocity.

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
,it's merely the velocity inherent in being on the equator.
Why is that velocity inherent. Is The atmosphere of air physically moving at 1000mph At the equator or not? If it is, then it MUST create or generate a force. A detectable force. Air is matter, matter in motion produces a force. Are you claiming that matter in motion does NOT produce a detectable force?


Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
In fact, the air is a big part of what makes launching from Earth such a pain in the ass, because atmospheric drag acts against us for the first 100 miles or so. Go play Kerbal Space Program for a few weeks to see if you can figure this out.
I agree physical objects moving through air causes friction which slows the movement of said object down.


Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Think about this: launching from the equator of any rotating body would benefit from the same effect, even if that body is an airless moon. In that case, your notion of a "force" that is due to a "wind" is clearly impossible, so how is it we can derive the same type of benefit?
I'm sorry I don't follow. The force is not from wind, which is micro motion within the atmosphere, the force is from macro motion of the entire atmosphere moving in a constant unidirectional motion.

Last edited by thewholesoul; 28th May 2017 at 07:32 PM.
thewholesoul is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 07:47 PM   #21
thewholesoul
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,183
Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Nah, we feel it all the time, but our brains have evolved to ignore it.
Warm regards myriad, how's life?

I don't feel it mate and what my brain has been ignoring for many years is precisely this fact that i dont feel it. And you don't feel it either and that's not because your brain has somehow evolved to.ignore it, that's because it's not physically there to be felt. If we did actually feel a 1000mph rotational motion of the whole atmosphere it wouldn't be pretty, to put it lightly.


Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
In fact we're so accustomed to living in a 750mph (in the mid latitudes where I live) east wind that when weather phenomena cause it to be a little less, like 740mph, we actually feel it (and the weather forecasters report it) as a 10 mph wind from the west!
How come you can feel a 10mph motion of part of the atmosphere but not a 750mph motion of the entire atmosphere? It's like a fish in the river being able to feel a slight local change in turbulence but being unable to feel the massive flow of the river. It makes no sense to me.

Is The whole atmosphere made of something different to parts of the atmosphere?

Last edited by thewholesoul; 28th May 2017 at 07:48 PM.
thewholesoul is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 07:51 PM   #22
frenat
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 478
you don't feel constant motion.
__________________
-Reality is not determined by your lack of comprehension.
-Never let facts stand in the way of a good conspiracy theory.
-There are no bad ideas, just great ideas that go horribly wrong.
frenat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 08:01 PM   #23
thewholesoul
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,183
Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
The earth is spinning,
Welcome beachnut your presence is always welcome.

So the earth is spinning, you got me, that's the most concvincing unsupported affirmative statement i have heard all day.

Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
to say otherwise
Here comes the pain...

Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
is insanity
To question science is now insanity?

Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
, or stupidity.
To question science or advocate an alternative theory reduces my iq


Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
Anti-science
To question science and advocate alternative scientific theories

Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
BS thread.
Your right it should be in the science section. But why enter a b.s. thread? What's the point if you are not willing to contribute in a fruitful way?

Peace
thewholesoul is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 08:09 PM   #24
thewholesoul
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,183
Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
For the same reason a passenger on an airliner doesn't feel a 575 mph wind in his face while eating his packet of peanuts.
Warm regards foster, how's it going? I was wondering when this,argument was going to be raised.

The reason we don't feel the velocity of the aeroplane is because we are located INSIDE the moving solid body. Like when you run your organs are the passengers and they don't feel the friction against the air that you are pushing through

We are located on the OUTSIDE on the EXTERIOR of the solid moving body.

Now if you were sitting on the OUTSIDE of a plane travelling at that speed, could you still eat those peanuts? I don't think so.
thewholesoul is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 08:11 PM   #25
thewholesoul
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,183
Originally Posted by marplots View Post
I don't understand how the sun works.
It works really hard marplots

But if there is no axial rotation of the planet then the sun must be circling us, just as it appears to be doing.
thewholesoul is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 08:17 PM   #26
marplots
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 29,074
Originally Posted by marplots View Post
I don't understand how the sun works.
Originally Posted by thewholesoul View Post
It works really hard marplots

But if there is no axial rotation of the planet then the sun must be circling us, just as it appears to be doing.
Not that part, the nuclear bombs part. Supposedly, the sun is a huge bunch of nuclear bombs, continuously exploding but being held in check by gravity.

Pull the other one.
marplots is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 08:20 PM   #27
thewholesoul
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,183
I will address Foucault tomorrow.adios
thewholesoul is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 08:24 PM   #28
beachnut
Penultimate Amazing
 
beachnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 24,744
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denialism


Ignorance, the lack of knowledge; what is willful ignorance
__________________
"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen" - Albert Einstein
"... education as the means of developing our greatest abilities" - JFK
https://folding.stanford.edu/ fold with your computer - join team 13232
beachnut is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 08:34 PM   #29
Horatius
NWO Kitty Wrangler
 
Horatius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 25,812
Originally Posted by thewholesoul View Post
Warm regards Horatous and cool name!

Did I say the force was wind? the force nasa are claiming to use is the force of the entire atmosphere in physical unidirectional motion caused by the axial rotation of the planet.

Again, it's not a force at all. And the atmosphere has nothing to do with it. Just stop even trying to figure it out based on the "atmosphere", because you'll never understand it that way.


Quote:
What physically causes the " speed boost" then? There must be a transfer of energy in order to gain velocity.
It's not a "speed boost" or a "gain" in velocity.

The velocity already exists. It has existed in every physical object on the face of the Earth for the entire time the Earth has existed. If objects on the surface of the Earth were not already rotating at the same velocity as the surface of the Earth, they'd be moving relative to it.

Where did this velocity come from? Ultimately from the total combined velocities of all the particles that accreted to form the Earth in the first place, many billions of years ago. The momentum and energy of those particles had to go somewhere, and that was the rotation of the Earth.

How did this happen? A confluence of gravity and friction. Gravity brought individual particles together, and friction between colliding particles transferred energy between them. Over time, they all tended to average out to having the same general velocity profile, encouraging the process of accretion which formed the Earth. As the collection of matter became larger, this process would tend to happen faster, until such a time that the Earth's gravity was strong enough that anything that touched its surface would, due to friction, be accelerated to the same velocity as that part of the Earth's surface.

Every terrestrial body ever formed later by any process, such as people, rockets, and atmospheres, ultimately inherits some small percentage of that original energy.




Quote:
Why is that velocity inherent.

See above.


Quote:
Is The atmosphere of air physically moving at 1000mph At the equator or not? If it is, then it MUST create or generate a force. A detectable force. Air is matter, matter in motion produces a force. Are you claiming that matter in motion does NOT produce a detectable force?

It's not just me that claims that, Sir Issac Newton claims it as well. It is not motion that produces forces, it is acceleration. F=ma and all that.

Now, relative motion can produce forces, which is how sailing ships work, but yes, by and large, the atmosphere does move at close to 1000 MPH. But it does it along with the surface of the Earth, which is also moving at roughly the same speed in roughly the same direction, such that the relative velocity between the atmosphere and the surface of the Earth is close to zero.


Quote:
I'm sorry I don't follow. The force is not from wind, which is micro motion within the atmosphere, the force is from macro motion of the entire atmosphere moving in a constant unidirectional motion.

Yes, and since we're moving with the atmosphere and the Earth, there is no relative motion, and so no perceptible "force".
__________________
Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd
Horatius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 08:36 PM   #30
Horatius
NWO Kitty Wrangler
 
Horatius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 25,812
Originally Posted by thewholesoul View Post
Now if you were sitting on the OUTSIDE of a plane travelling at that speed, could you still eat those peanuts? I don't think so.


Look at hot air balloons and see if that helps.

Quote:
Hot air ballooning is the activity of flying hot air balloons. Attractive aspects of ballooning include the exceptional quiet (except when the propane burners are firing), the lack of a feeling of movement, and the bird's-eye view. Since the balloon moves with the direction of the winds, the passengers feel absolutely no wind, except for brief periods during the flight when the balloon climbs or descends into air currents of different direction or speed.

When you understand how that works, you just might understand how the atmosphere works.
__________________
Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd
Horatius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 08:38 PM   #31
The Great Zaganza
Master Poster
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,611
Stop the Earth - I want to get off.
__________________
"eventually we will get something done."
- Donald J. Trump
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 08:52 PM   #32
Steve
Master Poster
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,820
Originally Posted by marplots View Post
I don't understand how the sun works.
Batteries. Really big ones.
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 08:56 PM   #33
Jim_MDP
Philosopher
 
Jim_MDP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: N.Cal/S.Or
Posts: 5,527
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Stop the Earth - I want to get off.

Easy peasy... walk outside, jump as high as you can, and let the wind carry you away.




__________________
----------------------
Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything.

"Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust.
"Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000.
Jim_MDP is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 09:17 PM   #34
aussiedwarf
New Blood
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 21
One thing to remember is that the Earth is very big.

So lets posit that the earth is spinning at 465.1m/s at the equator at sea level where the Earth's radius is 6378.1km. How would one notice? Well if you were standing up, your head would potentially be 2m higher than your feet. So how fast would your head be travelling when it is 6378.1002 km high. According to my quick calculation it would be travelling at 465.100014584m/s. So one hundredth of a millimeter, not noticeable by human senses.

Now we do have specialised equipment that can measure the strength of gravity. Since at the equator we are travelling faster, these machines measure a difference. Around the equator we measure around 9.79m/s/s and higher (9.81m/s/s) at higher latitudes.

Also remember that velocity is something we detect by comparing it to something else. It is not something that we feel. What we instead feel is acceleration. So we have machines that can measure the acceleration and our bodies can feel gravity pull our bodies down. If we are in a car traveling 100km/h down the highway we can feel the bumps in the road. In a high speed train, despite it traveling faster, it will feel smooth since it should be traveling at a constant speed without any bumps.

When it comes to the atmosphere, it moves roughly at the same speed as the ground below it. Now, what does happen is any air that move away from the equator is moving slightly faster which causes things like cyclones to rotate in different direction depending on if they are in the north or southern hemisphere. So in the North they rotate anticlockwise while in the south they rotate clockwise. This is otherwise known as the coriolis effect.
aussiedwarf is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 09:19 PM   #35
Nay_Sayer
I say nay!
 
Nay_Sayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,229
Stationary, In the exact center of the universe as a flat disc sitting upon a great turtle.

Please do not ask about what is under the turtle, It gets messy at that point.
__________________
I am 100% confident all psychics and mediums are frauds.
----------------------------------------------
Proud woo denier
---------------------------------------------
Studies conclude theists are the most immoral people on earth.
Nay_Sayer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 09:20 PM   #36
marplots
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 29,074
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Batteries. Really big ones.
Lithium?
marplots is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 09:24 PM   #37
marplots
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 29,074
Originally Posted by aussiedwarf View Post
One thing to remember is that the Earth is very big.

So lets posit that the earth is spinning at 465.1m/s at the equator at sea level where the Earth's radius is 6378.1km. How would one notice? Well if you were standing up, your head would potentially be 2m higher than your feet. So how fast would your head be travelling when it is 6378.1002 km high. According to my quick calculation it would be travelling at 465.100014584m/s. So one hundredth of a millimeter, not noticeable by human senses.
This only gives me a head height of 20 cm. Am I a gerbil?

ETA: If I am, that's fine, I just wanted to know for the rest of the thought experiment.
marplots is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 09:29 PM   #38
Noztradamus
Illuminator
 
Noztradamus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,393
Hodor!
__________________
The Australian Family Association's John Morrissey was aghast when he learned Jessica Watson was bidding to become the youngest person to sail round the world alone, unaided and without stopping.
Noztradamus is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 09:37 PM   #39
bknight
Thinker
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 173
Originally Posted by thewholesoul;11858501...
I used to believe the Earth was a spinning globe. I still like to consider myself a rational person
From reading your post in now two threads, I doubt very many would agree with your being a rationale person.
Quote:
who is persuaded by facts and logic over opinion and sentiment.
Except where facts disagrees with you or your viewpoint of science.
Quote:
I am not a flat earther,
A reasonable individual would have a hard time believing this judging from the previous thread.
Quote:
I am not completely convinced yet that it's true however I will make arguments in its defense. To begin...
You haven't made any arguments that hold any validity, so why should we believe this thread will be any different?

I don't have the pamphlet you possess, so I don't know what it says, however I will point out to you the glaring errors, The Russians launch generally in a N/S direction, so they don't benefit from any Earth rotation, likewise launches from the west coast of the US.


....
Quote:
According to QUORA the speed boost is quantified

"The best place to launch a rocket to orbit is anywhere on the equator. That's because if you're on the equator and you're launching the rocket eastwards, Earth's rotation will give you about 400m/s of speed in advance"

The atmosphere is made of air, air is matter and matter in motion produces a force. It makes sense that NASA would exploit this rotational force to achieve escape velocity, this is evidence that this rotational force actually exists in physical reality.
Air does produce a force, but that doesn't help rockets get into orbit.
Quote:

Yet, despite this fact, we do not feel this atmospheric motion with our senses evolved to detect air movement.
Because we all are on the same surface moving along with the Earth. Besides wind current directional changes and accelerations/decelerations we don't feel this atmosphere.
Quote:
Neither can
can we detect this atmospheric motion with our instruments designed to detect air movement.
Would that be because the instruments are travelling on the same surface travelling at the same speed?
Quote:
Indeed, if the atmosphere of Earth was in fact stationary how else could we prove that if not by our inability to sense any motion or measure any movement?
Begs the question of the rotating Earth.
Quote:

There also appears to be a contradiction.
There is no contradiction, only in your willfully ignorant mind.
Quote:
How come we don't feel or measure any rotational force but NASA's rockets do?
NASA's rockets don't feel the atmosphere other than the drag created by moving through it must be overcome to reach orbit.
bknight is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th May 2017, 09:38 PM   #40
Steve
Master Poster
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,820
Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Lithium?
Watch your mouth there, Sonny.
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:43 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.