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Old 29th May 2017, 09:13 AM   #81
thewholesoul
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
We can post this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foucault_pendulum
But the OP author ignores science and uses BS.
the main counter argument against focault pendulum is the Allias effect. apparentllythe focault pendulum during a solar eclpise, moves faster, moves slower, sometimes it even rotates in reverse. we know that when a solar eclipse occurs we knoiw the planet does not spped up or slow down or reverse, so the Allias effect tells us that something other than the earths alleged rotation is responsible for this behaviour.

NASA conducted this experiment in 1999 but they have never released their results? next solar eclipse is in august this year.

personally i find the foucalt pendulum unconvincing, why cant a wooden, glass, or plastic ball exhibit the same behaviour as the lead ball? why dont all pendulums behave like the foucault pendulum? why is earths alleged rotation selective?

Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
We can explain knowing the earth rotates is easy to understand with a simple thought experiment... it will be ignored.
well you need to divulge the thought experiment before it can be ignored.

Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
As the anti-science expert in woo ignores all reason...
http://scienceblogs.com/startswithab...we-know-the-e/
The earth continues to rotate, and the stars appear to be turning around the north star, and there will be no rational why for the anti-science expert to explain; there will be no math, no science no physics.
i couldnt open the link. can you write the thought experiment.

Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
Since the world does not turn in the OP's authors world, is it perpetual dusk/dawn, or too hot for life, or too cold for life.
if the earth is not rotating then that means the sun is rotating around us.


Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
Someone misses the sunrise and sunsets in some fantasy anti-science world of woo; what would the liar in chief say? Sad...
hahaha liar in chief, i like it beachnut keep the ad homs coming, it makes me look good.
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Old 29th May 2017, 09:16 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Not that part, the nuclear bombs part. Supposedly, the sun is a huge bunch of nuclear bombs, continuously exploding but being held in check by gravity.

Pull the other one.
"supposedly" the sun is nuclear. so you're not certain.

have you seen an experiment demonstrating how the force of gravity contains nuclear explosions? i havent, have you?
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Old 29th May 2017, 09:23 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
I don't know if anyone has ever noticed, but birds can only fly directly westwards. Not because the air currents are too strong to fly in any other direction, because the atmosphere is actually stationary. But the Earth just turns away from them at supersonic speed (at least between certain latitudes, but I don't know which ones because I'm allergic to cosines).
But your sinuses are okay?
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Old 29th May 2017, 09:37 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
But your sinuses are okay?
A bit stuffy, but let's​ not go off on a tangent.
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Old 29th May 2017, 09:42 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by thewholesoul View Post
personally i find the foucalt pendulum unconvincing, why cant a wooden, glass, or plastic ball exhibit the same behaviour as the lead ball? why dont all pendulums behave like the foucault pendulum? why is earths alleged rotation selective?


I'm impressed. Do you write your own material?

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Old 29th May 2017, 09:46 AM   #86
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Let's cut to the chase:

thewholesoul...Please can you explain your model of the Solar System including a non-spinning Earth

Please also include explanations of everyday observations of the sun (and moon) rising and setting and the stars/planets rotating about the sky.

How do these observations fit into your model?

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Old 29th May 2017, 09:51 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by thewholesoul View Post
the main counter argument against focault pendulum is the Allias effect. apparentllythe focault pendulum during a solar eclpise, moves faster, moves slower, sometimes it even rotates in reverse. we know that when a solar eclipse occurs we knoiw the planet does not spped up or slow down or reverse, so the Allias effect tells us that something other than the earths alleged rotation is responsible for this behaviour.
And sometimes the effect is not seen at all. Since it ONLY happens during an eclipsed it tells us something else is happening in addition then. It is well documented that rotation is responsible for the pendulum. You don't throw out everything because of something that happens less than .01% of the time and not even every time there is an eclipse.

Originally Posted by thewholesoul View Post
NASA conducted this experiment in 1999 but they have never released their results? next solar eclipse is in august this year.
Or it wasn't published online like many things and your research "skills" completely failed when you couldn't find it with a 3 second google search.

Originally Posted by thewholesoul View Post
personally i find the foucalt pendulum unconvincing, why cant a wooden, glass, or plastic ball exhibit the same behaviour as the lead ball? why dont all pendulums behave like the foucault pendulum? why is earths alleged rotation selective?
citation needed.
It will work with any pendulum. the heavier the ball the lower the center of gravity and the more stable the pendulum will be but it WILL work with any pendulum.
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Old 29th May 2017, 09:52 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by thewholesoul View Post
"supposedly" the sun is nuclear. so you're not certain.

have you seen an experiment demonstrating how the force of gravity contains nuclear explosions? i havent, have you?
And again with the strawman argument.
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Old 29th May 2017, 09:57 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by thewholesoul View Post
Warm regards myriad, how's life?

I don't feel it mate and what my brain has been ignoring for many years is precisely this fact that i dont feel it. And you don't feel it either and that's not because your brain has somehow evolved to.ignore it, that's because it's not physically there to be felt. If we did actually feel a 1000mph rotational motion of the whole atmosphere it wouldn't be pretty, to put it lightly.

Do you feel the over 14 pounds of atmospheric pressure on every square inch of your skin, which amounts to well over 23 tons of force in total? Do you feel the electromagnetic fields holding the molecules and tissues of your body together? Do you even feel your own breathing, 99% of the time? Of course not. These are constant and unalterable conditions, so there's no evolutionary advantage to perceiving them.

What there's advantage in perceiving is changes in those constant conditions. For instance, we perceive tiny rapid changes in atmospheric pressure as sound. We perceive tiny rapid changes in the electromagnetic fields around us, as vision. We feel our own breathing when we need to deliberately hold our breath or breathe heavily to exert ourselves.

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How come you can feel a 10mph motion of part of the atmosphere but not a 750mph motion of the entire atmosphere? It's like a fish in the river being able to feel a slight local change in turbulence but being unable to feel the massive flow of the river. It makes no sense to me.

There's no useful information (as far as evolutionary success is concerned) in conditions that are constant in time over too large an area to escape or avoid. What we sense are small local changes in those constant conditions, as already described. Local winds and weather systems fall into that category.
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Old 29th May 2017, 10:34 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
That doesn't make sense - the disc would wobble as it couldn't be balanced perfectly on the dome of the shell. That is why the disc itself is balanced on the back of 4 elephants who are standing on the turtle.
I reject the quad elephant conspiracy folks and counter by pointing out the disc is on pillars that sprout from the turtles back.
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Old 29th May 2017, 10:34 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
A bit stuffy, but let's​ not go off on a tangent.
Ninja'd. *sulk*
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Old 29th May 2017, 10:40 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by thewholesoul View Post
"supposedly" the sun is nuclear. so you're not certain.

have you seen an experiment demonstrating how the force of gravity contains nuclear explosions? i havent, have you?
You're mistaken. The sun is a myth perpetrated by NASA, It's, in fact, the exhaust of an ancient alien tribe space ship. They circle us every 28 hours (Yes 27 is the real amount of hours in a day) and during at night, the moon crew takes over which, of course, is just an elaborate hologram.

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Old 29th May 2017, 10:58 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer View Post
You're mistaken. The sun is a myth perpetrated by NASA, It's, in fact, the exhaust of an ancient alien tribe space ship. They circle us every 28 hours (Yes 27 is the real amount of hours in a day) and during at night, the moon crew takes over which, of course, is just an elaborate hologram.


In my distorted world view fact, it's a severely worn out halogen bulb from a Ford Fiesta, circa 1989, with a huge fish-eye lens in front of it, because we know that lenses always cause aberrations. They make flat horizons curved, for example, and magnify stuff.

Prove me wrong
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Old 29th May 2017, 11:05 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by EvilBiker View Post
In my distorted world view fact, it's a severely worn out halogen bulb from a Ford Fiesta, circa 1989, with a huge fish-eye lens in front of it, because we know that lenses always cause aberrations. They make flat horizons curved, for example, and magnify stuff.

Prove me wrong
Hmm, this sounds reasonable.

I may have to revise my charts and graphs
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Old 29th May 2017, 11:07 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by thewholesoul View Post
"supposedly" the sun is nuclear. so you're not certain.

have you seen an experiment demonstrating how the force of gravity contains nuclear explosions? i havent, have you?
No, I have not. The only thing I've seen is the footage of old nuclear blasts.

I'm not keen on being anywhere around a continuous series of nuclear explosions. Doesn't that sound dangerous?

Frankly, I don't think there's really any way to make progress here. At least not under my idea about direct empirical observation and verification. Whatever is going on deep inside the sun, it's unlikely I'll get to see it.

By the way, how does the flat earth theory deal with sunspots (if at all)?

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Old 29th May 2017, 12:05 PM   #96
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posts 72 - 76 explain so much so well and I am sure they faze the founder of this feast not at all!!!!!!!!
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Old 29th May 2017, 12:08 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by EvilBiker View Post
Ninja'd. *sulk*
Never sulk, retaliate better!!!!!


Remember, Ninja's don't sulk, they eviscerate!!!!!!
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Old 29th May 2017, 12:16 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer View Post
They circle us every 28 hours (Yes 27 is the real amount of hours in a day) and during at night, the moon crew takes over which, of course, is just an elaborate hologram.

25.34 hours you heretical infidel you!!!!
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Old 29th May 2017, 12:45 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by thewholesoul View Post

In any case, if we don't feel constant motion then how come NASA rockets do feel it and use it to gain a speed boost? Are you saying NASA are lying?
It matters for the rockets because they are essentially leaving Earth. You are not, that's the difference.

Quote:
Besides, the atmosphere is made of air, air is a form of matter and matter in motion is force. How come when we travel westwards, or flights fly westwards, we don't feel this constant unidirectional whole atmospheric force?
You don't really bother to read the answers you are given, right?

Hans
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Old 29th May 2017, 12:46 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Never sulk, retaliate better!!!!!


Remember, Ninja's don't sulk, they eviscerate!!!!!!
Yeah, I have to come up with a better angle, it seems...
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Old 29th May 2017, 12:50 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by thewholesoul View Post
Present the number one proof you have that it is spinning at 1000mph
Here's an article that shows 12 experiments/observations that demonstrate the earth is spinning. They include Foucault's pendulum and the rocket launch examples already discussed.

https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/flat/round-spin.htm
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Old 29th May 2017, 12:55 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by thewholesoul View Post
the main counter argument against focault pendulum is the Allias effect. apparentllythe focault pendulum during a solar eclpise, moves faster, moves slower, sometimes it even rotates in reverse.
No, it doesn't. The Allias effect is very weak and not well validated. It may be due to measurement errors.

Quote:
we know that when a solar eclipse occurs we knoiw the planet does not spped up or slow down or reverse, so the Allias effect tells us that something other than the earths alleged rotation is responsible for this behaviour.
No, that is not a valid conclusion.

Quote:
NASA conducted this experiment in 1999 but they have never released their results? next solar eclipse is in august this year.
We have solar eclipses almost every year.

Quote:
personally i find the foucalt pendulum unconvincing, why cant a wooden, glass, or plastic ball exhibit the same behaviour as the lead ball? why dont all pendulums behave like the foucault pendulum? why is earths alleged rotation selective?
It is not selective. Most pendulums do not have rotational freedom. Otherwise, they would behave the same way. The reason a lead ball is preferable is only its high density.

Quote:
if the earth is not rotating then that means the sun is rotating around us.
Correct. However, we have solid evidence of the Earth's rotation.

Hans
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Old 29th May 2017, 12:57 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by thewholesoul View Post
"supposedly" the sun is nuclear. so you're not certain.
Yes, we are ceartain.

Quote:
have you seen an experiment demonstrating how the force of gravity contains nuclear explosions? i havent, have you?
Irrelevant.

Thewholesoul, keep ignoring my answers, and I will return the favor.

Hans
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Old 29th May 2017, 01:45 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
25.34 hours you heretical infidel you!!!!
28 Hrs, Teach the controversy.
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Old 29th May 2017, 02:04 PM   #105
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I found this concept shocking when I first leaned of it, but I was told by a friend that sometimes people post on forums just to pull the leg of other members. Admittedly, however, on the internet no one can hear you scream know for certain.
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Old 29th May 2017, 02:08 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
A bit stuffy, but let's​ not go off on a tangent.

Originally Posted by EvilBiker View Post
Yeah, I have to come up with a better angle, it seems...


The main conversation seems to have gone round circle anyways...
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Old 29th May 2017, 02:10 PM   #107
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That's because OP is being quite obtuse.
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Old 29th May 2017, 02:13 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post




The main conversation seems to have gone round circle anyways...
To some degree, yes. Better get it squared away before it goes pi-shaped.
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Old 29th May 2017, 02:45 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by EvilBiker View Post
To some degree, yes. Better get it squared away before it goes pi-shaped.
I C0°sine this sentiment
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Old 29th May 2017, 02:54 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by thewholesoul View Post

have you seen an experiment demonstrating how the force of gravity contains nuclear explosions? i havent, have you?
Here is video of such experiments.


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Old 29th May 2017, 04:50 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Again, it's not a force at all.
Hey Horatous. I'm having a problem with this. I don't get how matter in constant motion is not a force. What about the centrifugal force of the earth spin, it is this force which causes the atmosphere to also spin, right?

Imagine a fish in a whirlpool spinning eastwards at a constant velocity, I get how if the fish is floating with the spin it doesn't notice the any motion. But it must feel something going against the spin. Thats what I don't get.

I understand why we don't feel a constant motion. Only acceleration. But we wouldn't feel motion either in a stationary atmosphere.

Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
.
It's not a "speed boost" or a "gain" in velocity.
But that's what they said? Speed boost means they go faster and travel further, they also claim to use less fuel. These are objective differences that they claim.occur when they launch eastwards. Why can't they achieve a speed boost going westwards? Would launching westward slow them.down I wonder?

Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
The velocity already exists. It has existed in every physical object on the face of the Earth for the entire time the Earth has existed.
The words "speed boost" mean they move faster. We have two objects in motion. The rocket and the atmosphere. If it's not the motion of the atmosphere giving them.extra speed, then what is? You claim they don't gain any extra speed, I believe their words conflict with that. Why do they use less fuel going eastwards? Are you going to claim they don't?


Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Where did this velocity come from? Ultimately from the total combined velocities of all the particles that accreted to form the Earth in the first place, many billions of years ago. The momentum and energy of those particles had to go somewhere, and that was the rotation of the Earth.

How did this happen? A confluence of gravity and friction. Gravity brought individual particles together, and friction between colliding particles transferred energy between them. Over time, they all tended to average out to having the same general velocity profile, encouraging the process of accretion which formed the Earth. As the collection of matter became larger, this process would tend to happen faster, until such a time that the Earth's gravity was strong enough that anything that touched its surface would, due to friction, be accelerated to the same velocity as that part of the Earth's surface.
I agree, it's a nice theory

Quote:
Are you claiming that matter in motion does NOT produce a detectable force?
Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
It's not just me that claims that, Sir Issac Newton claims it as well. It is not motion that produces forces, it is acceleration. F=ma and all that.
But if a river is moving at a constant velocity I can detect and measure that velocity. If a wind is blowing at a constant velocity I can still detect and measure that velocity.

Matter in motion is detectable. When it's not in motion it is stationary. The atmosphere is in motion but you are saying we can't detect it?

Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Now, relative motion can produce forces, which is how sailing ships work, but yes, by and large, the atmosphere does move at close to 1000 MPH.
If you move against a constant uniform motion wouldn't you feel a force?


Quote:
the force is from macro motion of the entire atmosphere moving in a constant unidirectional motion.
Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Yes, since we're moving with the atmosphere and the Earth, there is no relative motion, and so no perceptible "force".
Above you said it wasn't a force, now you say it is? But you make a good point here.

Last edited by thewholesoul; 29th May 2017 at 04:51 PM.
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Old 29th May 2017, 04:51 PM   #112
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http://earthsky.org/astronomy-essent...re-star-trails

I wonder how the stars know what speed and direction to travel in?
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Old 29th May 2017, 04:55 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Look at hot air balloons and see if that helps.

"Since the balloon moves with the direction of the winds, the passengers feel absolutely no wind"


When you understand how that works, you just might understand how the atmosphere works.
Yes, but when the balloon moves against the wind it will feel friction and air resistance.
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Old 29th May 2017, 04:56 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Stop the Earth - I want to get off.
There's no escaping this,mad house unfortunately. We just have to make it a better place.
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Old 29th May 2017, 05:09 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by thewholesoul View Post
"supposedly" the sun is nuclear. so you're not certain.

have you seen an experiment demonstrating how the force of gravity contains nuclear explosions? i havent, have you?
Do not need to : Sun's mass precludes anything "exploding" (there is a reason for the quote marks - find it if you really are interested in this topic) except near it's external parts. The reactions are primarily fusion with the release of energy and photons over time. (they take a goodly while to overcome the gravity and move to the outside where they speed off to the Earth and other fun places!!!!

If you are any good at research it should not take you over ten minutes to Gooble it and read the site you go to (I assume it will not be a silly site but suspect I will be shown wrong) !!!
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Old 29th May 2017, 05:10 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by thewholesoul View Post
The words "speed boost" mean they move faster. We have two objects in motion. The rocket and the atmosphere. If it's not the motion of the atmosphere giving them.extra speed, then what is?
It's the motion of the rocket. The atmosphere is irrelevant to the gain of taking off to the east. At the equator everything is already constantly traveling east at nearly 1,000 mph. Right? So if the rocket, already heading east at 1,000 mph, heads off in that direction, it gets its first 1,000 mph for free. The atmosphere has nothing to do with that.[/quote]
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Old 29th May 2017, 05:13 PM   #117
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It took me under three minutes. I'll post it for you if yours is wrong.
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Old 29th May 2017, 05:31 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by aussiedwarf View Post
One thing to remember is that the Earth is very big.
Warm regards Aussie, how's it going?

Originally Posted by aussiedwarf View Post
So lets posit that the earth is spinning at 465.1m/s at the equator at sea level where the Earth's radius is 6378.1km. How would one notice? Well if you were standing up, your head would potentially be 2m higher than your feet. So how fast would your head be travelling when it is 6378.1002 km high. According to my quick calculation it would be travelling at 465.100014584m/s. So one hundredth of a millimeter, not noticeable by human senses.
An important point I would like to make is that physical objective reality is independent of our beliefs, what we say, and calculations. You calculated the difference in speed ASSUMING the atmosphere is in motion. It is THIS assumption that needs to be proven, not by calculations, but by physical measurement.

Originally Posted by aussiedwarf View Post
Now we do have specialised equipment that can measure the strength of gravity. Since at the equator we are travelling faster, these machines measure a difference. Around the equator we measure around 9.79m/s/s and higher (9.81m/s/s) at higher latitudes
We want to measure the motion of the atmosphere, and motion of the axial rotation.

Originally Posted by aussiedwarf View Post
Also remember that velocity is something we detect by comparing it to something else.
It is not something that we feel.
We are located on the exterior side of a spinning solid. The atmosphere is spinning the same velocity and direction. How come we feel no friction going against the constant direction? Typically we are told because we are inside a plane train or car, we don't feel the motion. But we are NOT INSIDE a solid moving object. If a fish swims against the current.

Originally Posted by aussiedwarf View Post
What we instead feel is acceleration
Agreed. But don't we also feel resistance when moving against matter in constant motion ?

Originally Posted by aussiedwarf View Post
So we have machines that can measure the acceleration and our bodies can feel gravity pull our bodies down. If we are in a car traveling 100km/h down the highway we can feel the bumps in the road. In a high speed train, despite it traveling faster, it will feel smooth since it should be traveling at a constant speed without any bumps.

When it comes to the atmosphere, it moves roughly at the same speed as the ground below it.
There is an important difference between analogies we need to flesh out. Typically defenders of the atmospheric motion ask us to imagine being inside a solid moving object. Inside we feel no friction. When my body runs my interior organs feel no friction but my exterior does. We are located on the exterior of the solid moving object.

Inside a plane, although the object is moving. The interior is stationary. A fish inside a river is different because the whole river is in motion. This is how I imagine our relationship is to the atmosphere. We are OUTSIDE a solid spinning body on its exterior, and we are INSIDE a fluid that is also in constant unidirectional motion. The plane/train/car analogies only account for half of the equation. Would you agree?


Originally Posted by aussiedwarf View Post
Now, what does happen is any air that move away from the equator is moving slightly faster which causes things like cyclones to rotate in different direction depending on if they are in the north or southern hemisphere. So in the North they rotate anticlockwise while in the south they rotate clockwise. This is otherwise known as the correolis effect
If you spin a spherical ball on a string, would the air surrounding the top hemisphere rotate differently to the air in the bottom hemisphere?
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Old 29th May 2017, 05:32 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer View Post
Stationary, In the exact center of the universe as a flat disc sitting upon a great turtle.

Please do not ask about what is under the turtle, It gets messy at that point.
Agreed. And it was funny!
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Old 29th May 2017, 05:38 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by thewholesoul View Post
Agreed. And it was funny!
That it gets messy under the first turtle?

My top scientists tell me there may be an even bigger one under it.
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