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Old 2nd June 2017, 01:12 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I'm having an attack of dumb. I can't find the email. The articles says:

But I can't find the document, I can't find a link. Obviously you found it... so help a fellow forumite out here?
For easy reference, here's the article:
http://www.theolympian.com/news/poli...153826004.html

The emails are embedded within the article, in a sort of document viewing frame. For me, that frame appears immediately below the paragraph
"Read the initial exchange between Weinstein and Love below. The emails are in reverse chronological order, meaning the first email is at the bottom of the document."

I can pop open that document viewer in its own window with this link:
https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...ml#document/p1
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Old 2nd June 2017, 03:46 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
For easy reference, here's the article:
http://www.theolympian.com/news/poli...153826004.html

The emails are embedded within the article, in a sort of document viewing frame. For me, that frame appears immediately below the paragraph
"Read the initial exchange between Weinstein and Love below. The emails are in reverse chronological order, meaning the first email is at the bottom of the document."

I can pop open that document viewer in its own window with this link:
https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...ml#document/p1
I'm gonna guess that my work interwebs monitors won't let that frame work. All I have is a picture. I can't open filesharing stuff either. I'll try to remember to dig it up this weekend.

I found the full text of Weinstein's email in a couple of other places, I was just curious about the response form Love. I think I've probably got all the bits and pieces scattered around FIRE had a pretty good overview, but I'd have to re-google it to link at and... well... lazy right now.
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Old 2nd June 2017, 04:29 PM   #83
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overview from FIRE

A link to FIRE. Not sure whether or not it was the one you wanted.
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Old 2nd June 2017, 07:15 PM   #84
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It's just depressing how off-track the campus left has become. "Day of Absence", to the best of my knowledge is inspired by a Douglas Turner Ward play. The setting was NOT Olympia, WA with its 4% minority population, but Anytown, Southern USA with their 45 to 60% black populations. The conceit is "Let's see how they get along if the street cleaners, dishwashers, maids, box boys, fruit stall vendors, et al...., including customers for their stores.... ALL stay home and they have to get by on their own for just 24 hours." It was a satire and it exaggerated its points rather blatantly. Hell, it's recommended in the preface that you get black actors in whiteface to play the roles.

Obviously it was making a non-impact at Evergreen. Just what hardship are you putting on The Man if the students at a liberal college don't go to class. No one loses grant money, daily income, etc... you just have fewer people playing frisbee on the quad. So, of course it was a non-event. Garnered no attention, got no support and made a point to no one.

Rather than junking the "tradition", they decide to make it offensive to make a point. Again... in Olympia WA? And what point? "Hey, no one notices if we boycott for a day, so let's uh, I dunno... NOT BOYCOTT?" "Ooh, I know! Let's keep whitey out, that's the same thing, right?"

No. It isn't. It's not related to the original concept, the validity of which I question anyway fifty years after it was imagined. It's a non-sequitur and it is just stupid.

These are the sort of Social Justice Warriors who caused us to turn that phrase into abject irony and sarcasm. Idiots comparing putting a poster up in the library to Nelson Mandela, Gandhi, and Rosa Parks.
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Old 2nd June 2017, 07:57 PM   #85
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Where is the evidence that any major group at the school demanded that whites not come to school that day?
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Old 2nd June 2017, 08:08 PM   #86
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I have read the email exchange between the school President and the Professor.

It appears that the event usually involved on-campus and off-campus activities. POC participants engage in activities off-campus, while White participants engage in activities on campus. The Professor suggested this be reversed.

But this was only for participants in the events. Its was never a day when POCs simply stay home while Whites go about their normal business at school.

Something told me that these allegations were ******** and I was proven right.

No one asked let alone demanded that all White persons simply stay off campus that day while only POCs come to class.
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Old 2nd June 2017, 08:13 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Where is the evidence that any major group at the school demanded that whites not come to school that day?
I have no idea as to the size of the group involved, but it was evidently the same association or club that has been "sponsoring" the Day of Absence for forty years. It was supported by the office of diversity, or whatever it's called at Evergreen and reported in the school newspaper as an announcement of the change in focus of the day of observation.

It's pretty obviously stupid. I can elect to make myself absent to make a statement and I can ask others to do the same in the form of solidarity. I cannot, in any sane world, create a day of YOUR absence by telling you to stay away.
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It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
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Old 2nd June 2017, 08:15 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
I have no idea as to the size of the group involved, but it was evidently the same association or club that has been "sponsoring" the Day of Absence for forty years. It was supported by the office of diversity, or whatever it's called at Evergreen and reported in the school newspaper as an announcement of the change in focus of the day of observation.

It's pretty obviously stupid. I can elect to make myself absent to make a statement and I can ask others to do the same in the form of solidarity. I cannot, in any sane world, create a day of YOUR absence by telling you to stay away.
Read the email exchange. Its clear the request only affected those students already participating in event activities. It did not affect students, white or black, not involved in the days events.

Right-wing screaming about "Evergreen College demands white people stay home", is nothing but ******** Right-wing FAKE NEWS.
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Old 2nd June 2017, 08:55 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
No.
But I think this type of divisiveness has effects, and I dont know what otherwise could be the result. People who feel alienated tend to align themselves with people who, you know, don't alienate them.
Log Cabin Republicans are still Republican
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Old 2nd June 2017, 09:03 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Read the email exchange. Its clear the request only affected those students already participating in event activities. It did not affect students, white or black, not involved in the days events.

Right-wing screaming about "Evergreen College demands white people stay home", is nothing but ******** Right-wing FAKE NEWS.
Or perhaps you missed the point, you may wish to review the events that took place in May.
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Old 2nd June 2017, 09:04 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Read the email exchange. Its clear the request only affected those students already participating in event activities. It did not affect students, white or black, not involved in the days events.
This is actually one of those things that annoys me more for some reason. This current view that 'allies' should prove their worth and commitment to a cause, and anything less that total submission is inadequate.

You seem to think that because the view for this years event was only affecting those registered to participate makes it tolerable is fine. The professor in question held the opposite opinion and voiced it. For his opposing opinion, his resignation was demanded. That is really the only problem here.
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Old 2nd June 2017, 09:36 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I didn't realize that PTSD was an inherited condition...
It's culturally transferred not genetic. It's no different than one on one family abuse or dysfunctional family patterns that are passed down as learned behaviors.
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Old 2nd June 2017, 09:42 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Shame is a poor tactic when trying to encourage another to change their views.
And calling the college students racist and coddled by Oppression Olympics coaches doesn't sound like something Trump would say? It does to me.
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Old 2nd June 2017, 10:08 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
And calling the college students racist and coddled by Oppression Olympics coaches doesn't sound like something Trump would say? It does to me.
You have a higher opinion of Trump's diction than I.
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Old 2nd June 2017, 10:16 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
And calling the college students racist and coddled by Oppression Olympics coaches doesn't sound like something Trump would say? It does to me.
Does it matter?
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Old 2nd June 2017, 10:26 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
It's just depressing how off-track the campus left has become. "Day of Absence", to the best of my knowledge is inspired by a Douglas Turner Ward play. The setting was NOT Olympia, WA with its 4% minority population, but Anytown, Southern USA with their 45 to 60% black populations. The conceit is "Let's see how they get along if the street cleaners, dishwashers, maids, box boys, fruit stall vendors, et al...., including customers for their stores.... ALL stay home and they have to get by on their own for just 24 hours." It was a satire and it exaggerated its points rather blatantly. Hell, it's recommended in the preface that you get black actors in whiteface to play the roles.

Obviously it was making a non-impact at Evergreen. Just what hardship are you putting on The Man if the students at a liberal college don't go to class. No one loses grant money, daily income, etc... you just have fewer people playing frisbee on the quad. So, of course it was a non-event. Garnered no attention, got no support and made a point to no one.

Rather than junking the "tradition", they decide to make it offensive to make a point. Again... in Olympia WA? And what point? "Hey, no one notices if we boycott for a day, so let's uh, I dunno... NOT BOYCOTT?" "Ooh, I know! Let's keep whitey out, that's the same thing, right?"

No. It isn't. It's not related to the original concept, the validity of which I question anyway fifty years after it was imagined. It's a non-sequitur and it is just stupid.

These are the sort of Social Justice Warriors who caused us to turn that phrase into abject irony and sarcasm. Idiots comparing putting a poster up in the library to Nelson Mandela, Gandhi, and Rosa Parks.
I just try to remember that I was so bored when I was a freshman in college, I fell in with the Wicca crowd and ended up living in an unheated bohemian boarding house for 2+ years before I realized I was a moron.

But that was off-campus. On-campus, the professors told me to do my homework. Do it naked in a graveyard if you please, but do it, or flush thousands of dollars down the drain.

Was that better? I'm inclined to think it was, but of course I'm undoubtedly colored by the biased lens of "why, in my day..."

How the hell is that happening already.
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Old 3rd June 2017, 02:18 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
It's culturally transferred not genetic.
Nonsense. PTSD is a condition entirely arising from personal experience. Don't appropriate the word and use it to mean something completely different because people who have any knowledge of the subject whatsoever, and most who don't, will see through it.
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Old 3rd June 2017, 06:24 AM   #98
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Weinstein's perspective

Here is a portion of an email written by Professor Weinstein: "I raise this sickening history because the Nazi High Command explicitly rationalized their depraved, deliberately cruel extermination Jews, homosexuals, Jehovah’s Witnesses and Roma with an overt appeal to Darwinism. As a Jewish evolutionary biologist, I do not think I could possibly be any more aware of the hazard posed by weaponized “Darwinian” logic. When I offered to provide an evolutionary perspective on “race” it was not to justify oppression, as many seem to have imagined. It was, quite to the contrary, with an eye towards permanently ending oppression by understanding and addressing it at its evolutionary root. I truly believe that scientific enlightenment of this sort could ensure that genocide never happens again—to anyone."

This is the guy that the students think should resign?
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Old 3rd June 2017, 08:25 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
And calling the college students racist and coddled by Oppression Olympics coaches doesn't sound like something Trump would say? It does to me.
Not unless someone else wrote it for him. He does not have the mental tool kit/acuity to come up with such a phrase. He is definitely no Spiro Agnew ( " Nattering nabobs of negativity!")...........
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Old 3rd June 2017, 09:19 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Nonsense. PTSD is a condition entirely arising from personal experience. Don't appropriate the word and use it to mean something completely different because people who have any knowledge of the subject whatsoever, and most who don't, will see through it.
This behavior is identical to that of the people who insist on only using the "sociological" (aka oppression olympics) definition of racism, sexism, etc.

They want to appropriate the harm caused/sympathy gained by accusing others of being racist/being a victim of racism over often trivial things, while simultaneously avoiding such criticism because after all, "only whites can be racist" and "only men can be sexist". They're "only being prejudicial"...
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Old 3rd June 2017, 10:26 AM   #101
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My bigger concern is how our college youth seems to be soo focused on racial identity politics.

They seem to care more about judging and dividing our people by race and culture, than by ideology.

They seem to fail to grasp that there are white people who are full allies in the struggle for economic justice. Instead events like this only marginalize and disallusion whites who would love to be allies in the struggle.

Dividing this country by race and ethnicity only helps the TRUE enemy, who know no allegiance to skin color or language. They only know money.
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Old 3rd June 2017, 12:06 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
They seem to care more about judging and dividing our people by race and culture, than by ideology.
Why should we encourage dividing people at all?
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Old 3rd June 2017, 12:27 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Yeah, you have to be a real egghead to come up with eloquence like, say, a long string of exclamation points. Them Ivy League interlecturals, eh?

I think the exclamation points were part of the Republiker quote or whatever you call it.

I'd rather see Republicker or exclamation points over sentences like "He's a ***** ******* piece of ****. I'm so ****** angry I can't help but curse even when I'm ******* typing"

"Hmmm ya I think the "F word" will fit in nicely here. I hope people don't confuse it with another word, maybe I'll put "Mutha" in front of it, yeah that's it. Then a little ************ to finish it off. Voila, perfect! People will really know I'm upset now!"
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Old 3rd June 2017, 01:13 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Why should we encourage dividing people at all?
I should not have to tolerate the KKK, Al Qaeda, Islamists, Neo-Nazis, etc.

I have every right to protest them, give them the finger, and encourage others to not associate with them.

I have every right to call them "the enemy".


Cause' thats what they are.
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Old 3rd June 2017, 01:25 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
Here is a portion of an email written by Professor Weinstein: "I raise this sickening history because the Nazi High Command explicitly rationalized their depraved, deliberately cruel extermination Jews, homosexuals, Jehovah’s Witnesses and Roma with an overt appeal to Darwinism. As a Jewish evolutionary biologist, I do not think I could possibly be any more aware of the hazard posed by weaponized “Darwinian” logic. When I offered to provide an evolutionary perspective on “race” it was not to justify oppression, as many seem to have imagined. It was, quite to the contrary, with an eye towards permanently ending oppression by understanding and addressing it at its evolutionary root. I truly believe that scientific enlightenment of this sort could ensure that genocide never happens again—to anyone."

This is the guy that the students think should resign?
Unfortunately, it is not just the students anymore. Statement signed by about 1/4 of Evergreen State's Faculty:

Quote:
In solidarity with students, we call for the Evergreen administration to:
* Center student perspectives in a persistent media approach to counter the alt-right narratives that are demonizing Evergreen and Day of Absence specifically.
* Take seriously the threats made to individual community members and use all available institutional resources to protect them.
* Demonstrate accountability by pursuing a disciplinary investigation against Bret Weinstein according to guidelines in the Social Contract and Faculty Handbook. Weinstein has endangered faculty, staff, and students, making them targets of white supremacist backlash by promulgating misinformation in public emails, on national television, in news outlets, and on social media.
They don't quite call for his firing but it's not hard to believe that's the required outcome for someone endangering the faculty, staff and students by promulgating misinformation.
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Old 3rd June 2017, 02:01 PM   #106
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Someone did the math here regarding the makeup of the signatories, I'll quote in full.

"I thought I’d go ahead and do the dirty work for you and go through the faculty listings at Evergreen. Of 56 faculty signatures, I count 45 from the humanities. However, there was one retiree and another with no listing so that 45 is only out 54, leaving 9 from the natural sciences. I count 11 alone from languages, more than the natural sciences combined!"
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Old 3rd June 2017, 02:15 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
BS. White middle-class Americans tend to support the GOP anyway. Do you have any evidence that this sort of nonsense, frustrating as it is, somehow converted them from one party to the other in large numbers?
That's the thing, though: They haven't converted in large numbers. The GOP has been a shambles for years. It's ideologically bankrupt. Its presidential primary was a clown car spectacle.

Middle class whites should have been ripe to be peeled off by a Democratic party with something better to offer. Instead, they got Hillary Clinton.

They looked across the aisle, and saw the same corruption, the same ideological bankruptcy.

Some of us saw Bernie Sanders, but we know how that went. You're looking for a conversion in the wrong direction. This was an election cycle for middle class whites to flee the GOP, right into the welcoming arms of the Democratic Party. But the message has been getting through loud and clear: middle class whites aren't welcome on the left.
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Old 3rd June 2017, 02:49 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
That's the kind of school Evergreen State is; it's long been a training ground for the extreme left wing. You may recall Rachel Corrie, the gal who managed to get herself run over by a bulldozer that was destroying some Palestinian houses in Israel (the IDF says they were connected to tunnels used to smuggle weapons). Corrie was from Evergreen State.
What a weird version of guilt by association. I'm afraid to ask -- did Kevin Bacon also attend?

It wouldn't surprise me much if this incident is an outgrowth of special snowflake stupidity that is taught/encouraged at Evergreen -- that the incident is a Frankenstein monster, as was suggested upthread. However, I wouldn't assume this on a knee-jerk basis.
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Old 3rd June 2017, 02:54 PM   #109
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Very sick of the youth of our colleges being so damn obsessed with race.

We are one nation. We will either succeed together or we will fail divided.

There is no other option.

Any student or teacher advocating race politics and racial divisions, is an enemy of the people.

We should all unite due to common ideology, beliefs and goals.

Suggesting that people who have common goals and beliefs should divide themselves by race or religion or ethnicity, is simply doing bidding of those who wish to rule us all.
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Old 3rd June 2017, 03:04 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
Does it matter?
Evidently it does to a couple of folks here, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy in case they failed to notice.
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Old 3rd June 2017, 03:07 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
Evidently it does to a couple of folks here, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy in case they failed to notice.
What hypocrisy? Are you using words with made up definitions again?
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Old 3rd June 2017, 03:08 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Nonsense. PTSD is a condition entirely arising from personal experience. Don't appropriate the word and use it to mean something completely different because people who have any knowledge of the subject whatsoever, and most who don't, will see through it.
Then what appropriate name would you give it? A few hundred years of slavery is plenty of time to have lasting affects on a culture as a whole. The civil war ended about 150 years ago but the stigma of slavery persisted long after the proclamation emancipation.
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Old 3rd June 2017, 03:10 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Newtons Bit View Post
What hypocrisy? Are you using words with made up definitions again?
If you call someone a spoiled brat and racist coached by Oppression Olympic coaches I'm pretty certain the correct term was used.
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Old 3rd June 2017, 03:12 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
Then what appropriate name would you give it? A few hundred years of slavery is plenty of time to have lasting affects on a culture as a whole. The civil war ended about 150 years ago but the stigma of slavery persisted long after the proclamation emancipation.
Are you suggesting that I as a Jew born in the 1970s, suffer from PTSD from the Holocaust and the Russian pogroms? The Inquisition?

That would be cool.
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Old 3rd June 2017, 03:13 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
If you call someone a spoiled brat and racist coached by Oppression Olympic coaches I'm pretty certain the correct term was used.
What's the hypocrisy? Please use the standard definition:

hy·poc·ri·sy
noun
the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.
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Old 3rd June 2017, 03:34 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
Then what appropriate name would you give it?
Don't ask me what the word is, I don't believe it's even a phenomenon. You can't pick a word out of the air and use it contrary to its accepted definition simply because you can't think of the correct one. Why not say blacks have cultural cancer, or cultural diphtheria, or cultural irritable bowel syndrome? It makes no less sense than cultural PTSD.

Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
A few hundred years of slavery is plenty of time to have lasting affects on a culture as a whole. The civil war ended about 150 years ago but the stigma of slavery persisted long after the proclamation emancipation.
What has that got to do with PTSD?
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Old 3rd June 2017, 09:50 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
Evidently it does to a couple of folks here, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy in case they failed to notice.
Missed the point. Why does it matter "if it sounds like Trump". If it even does sound like that... (Evidence missing!)
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Old 3rd June 2017, 11:15 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
What a weird version of guilt by association. I'm afraid to ask -- did Kevin Bacon also attend?

It wouldn't surprise me much if this incident is an outgrowth of special snowflake stupidity that is taught/encouraged at Evergreen -- that the incident is a Frankenstein monster, as was suggested upthread. However, I wouldn't assume this on a knee-jerk basis.
Not sure whom I'm declaring guilty by association here, Rachel or Evergreen State? Rachel Corrie was in Israel to complete her senior college project, which was to join ISM protestors and to initiate a sister city project between Olympia and a city in Gaza. Evergreen State is definitely a hotbed of special snowflakes.
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Old 3rd June 2017, 11:17 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Are you suggesting that I as a Jew born in the 1970s, suffer from PTSD from the Holocaust and the Russian pogroms? The Inquisition?

That would be cool.
Yeah, I'm still shattered by my ancestors experience with the potato famine in Ireland.
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Old 4th June 2017, 04:13 AM   #120
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Weinstein was on Joe Rogan's podcast the other day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq4Y87idawk
Quote:
Streamed live on Jun 2, 2017
Bret Weinstein is a biology professor at Evergreen State College in Olympia, WA. Currently he is in the middle of an intense controversy that has been documented by the Wall Street Journal, New York Times, and several other mainstream media outlets.
It's about 2.5 hours long.
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