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Old 4th June 2017, 04:18 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Yeah, I'm still shattered by my ancestors experience with the potato famine in Ireland.
I know seventh generation Irish who are reduced to dribbling husks at the very sight of a potato. PTSD - Potato Traumatic Stress Disorder - it's real.
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Old 4th June 2017, 05:31 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
Missed the point. Why does it matter "if it sounds like Trump". If it even does sound like that... (Evidence missing!)

For some reason I can't picture bloviating gasbag Trump actually putting together a sentence long enough to warrant a comma, and not simply a string of half-connected ramblings joined together by ellipses. This was my quote our OO Stat Girl took issue with :

"You're drawing an equivalence where it simply doesn't exist, and missing the actual problem in a rush to find a reason to excuse and coddle some privileged racist college students and their Oppression Olympics coaches."

And you know, re-reading it I think I am a tad embarrassed. I think there ought to be a second comma after 'priviledge'. Now I feel like a total covfefe.

But back to the actual topic, I finally found the called-in threat that shut the Safe Space down on Friday :

Quote:
Caller: Yes, I’m on my way to Evergreen University now with a .44 Magnum. I am gonna execute as many people on that campus as I can get a hold of. You have that? What’s going on there? You communist, scumbag town. I’m going to murder as many people on that campus as I can. Just keep your, keep your eyes open, you scumbag.
http://hotair.com/archives/2017/06/0...lege-two-days/


Reads to me like either a genuine anti-PC nutjob, or plain troll. IOW, I'd thought that the threats were against Weinstein and/or his students. But no, sounds like we're back to business as usual, with frothing nutbars on both sides of a debate drowning out any attempts at reasoned discourse.

I wonder if the caller might be excused as suffering from generational PTSD stemming from his ancestor's humiliation under the Treaty of Versailles ...
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Old 4th June 2017, 05:49 AM   #123
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The "Why Evolution is True" blog is covering the latest events, including a 'statement of solidarity' issued by the faculty in support of the student protestors, lots of comments one of which links to the Joe Rogan video, as well as claims that protestors are harassing Weinstein's students.

https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress...cist-students/
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Old 4th June 2017, 06:32 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
Weinstein was on Joe Rogan's podcast the other day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq4Y87idawk


It's about 2.5 hours long.
He's actually quite good - well spoken, considered. And this in a topic that's full of landmines.

Recommend
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Old 4th June 2017, 07:15 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Or clever turn of phrase like REPUBLIKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Republicker is not a turn of phrase - it is a modified for purpose word, not a collection of words!! But keep on trying, it doesn't bother me and the reverse does seem to trouble you. YMMV. Good work on the exclamation points though!!!!! You found a place with heavy discounts on quantity too it seems!!!!!
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Old 4th June 2017, 07:20 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
That's the thing, though: They haven't converted in large numbers. The GOP has been a shambles for years. It's ideologically bankrupt. Its presidential primary was a clown car spectacle.

Middle class whites should have been ripe to be peeled off by a Democratic party with something better to offer. Instead, they got Hillary Clinton.

They looked across the aisle, and saw the same corruption, the same ideological bankruptcy.

Some of us saw Bernie Sanders, but we know how that went. You're looking for a conversion in the wrong direction. This was an election cycle for middle class whites to flee the GOP, right into the welcoming arms of the Democratic Party. But the message has been getting through loud and clear: middle class whites aren't welcome on the left.
For anyone who wonders I am in the group that seemingly should be republicker and/or trumpfer as white, middle class and 70 years old yet I am a strong democrat and always have been and always vote.
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Old 4th June 2017, 07:21 AM   #127
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The statement by some of Evergreen's faculty members

The statement signed by some members of the faculty at Evergreen says in part, “We vehemently reject the claim that students have been violent simply because they have been loud and emphatic. There is a difference between exercising the right to freely voice an opinion and inciting violence—and that difference has nothing to do with volume or forcefulness."

And, “* Demonstrate accountability by pursuing a disciplinary investigation against Bret Weinstein according to guidelines in the Social Contract and Faculty Handbook. Weinstein has endangered faculty, staff, and students, making them targets of white supremacist backlash by promulgating misinformation in public emails, on national television, in news outlets, and on social media.”

In my opinion FIRE’s article of June 2 made arguments that are relevant to both these passages. FIRE wrote, “We should note, given some of the demonstrations at Evergreen, that violent or coercive protest is not protected by the First Amendment. To the extent protesters use these tactics as part of their protest,*they are engaging in unlawful acts of civil disobedience.*You do not have a First Amendment right to barricade people in a building, for example, or to prevent someone from leaving a conversation, as*reports*suggest some protesters did to Weinstein when confronting him on May 23.” (highlighting mine)

FIRE also wrote with respect to President Bridges’ promise to investigate any complaint of discrimination, “This expanded response is more problematic since,*as FIRE has noted before, an investigation (particularly a prolonged investigation) into protected speech when protected speech is all that is at issue is itself a free speech violation. It’s unclear whether Bridges is commenting on Weinstein’s remarks or other expression that might be of a similar nature. If he is, FIRE would have concerns given that Weinstein’s comments constitute clearly protected speech.”

Not being a scholar of the laws and precedents surrounding freedom of expression, I cannot comment in depth. However, arguing that someone should be investigated for disseminating what is claimed to be misinformation is dubious at best, given that there are better ways to counteract it. As Archibald Cox said in 1971, “Over and over main the test of our dedication to liberty is our willingness to allow the expression of ideas we hate. If those ideas are lies, the remedy is more speech and more debate, so that men will learn the truth…”
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Old 4th June 2017, 07:43 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Not sure whom I'm declaring guilty by association here, Rachel or Evergreen State? Rachel Corrie was in Israel to complete her senior college project, which was to join ISM protestors and to initiate a sister city project between Olympia and a city in Gaza. Evergreen State is definitely a hotbed of special snowflakes.
I'm not sure either. It comes across as rorschach test / free association, having no bearing on current events.
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Old 4th June 2017, 07:48 AM   #129
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There are a couple of interesting editorial pieces on this in the New York Times, the first is from June the 2nd:

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/06/0...n-its-own.html

However the June 3rd piece says it all:

Quote:
Like plenty of adults across the political spectrum, they use slurs in lieu of arguments, looking for catharsis rather than constructive engagement. They ratchet up their language to a degree that weakens its currency for direr circumstances. And they undermine their goals — our goals — by pushing away good-hearted allies and handing ammunition to the very people who itch to dismiss them.


Right-wing media have had a field day with Evergreen, but not because they’ve faked a story. No, the story was given to them in ribbons and bows.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/06/0...een-state.html
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Old 4th June 2017, 09:53 AM   #130
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maybe not coercive, but not right, either

From the NYT link, "Weinstein, moreover, took quickly to the part of lightning rod. He has repeatedly characterized the Day of Absence as coercive, though it didn’t seem to be; Evergreen’s president, Bridges, told me in a telephone interview on Thursday that it flat-out wasn’t." I wouldn't use the word coercive, but I would describe some of the tactics as highly inappropriate. On YouTube there is a video of a professor berating someone else (he may also be a professor). Among other things she says to him that he should either go inside and listen to a particular presentation, or he should go home. At the end of her tirade, students start chanting.
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Old 4th June 2017, 10:01 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
For anyone who wonders I am in the group that seemingly should be republicker and/or trumpfer as white, middle class and 70 years old yet I am a strong democrat and always have been and always vote.
We all have our crosses to bear
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Old 4th June 2017, 10:07 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Yeah, I'm still shattered by my ancestors experience with the potato famine in Ireland.
My ancestors were blamed for the Black Plague.

Still haunts me to this day. Makes it hard to get up and do the dishes sometimes.
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Old 4th June 2017, 10:26 AM   #133
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A bad trend

At the National Review David French wrote, "Unless and until campus administrators have the courage to use the law to protect liberty, they’ll reward violence, increase campus volatility, and set the stage for a truly ugly (and perhaps deadly) incident." A commenter at the blog Simple Justice said something similar.
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Old 4th June 2017, 10:34 AM   #134
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unsafe versus uncomfortable

FIRE's Greg Lukianoff was interviewed by NPR about a different incident, but I think his remarks are pertinent to this one. "I do get a little worried when I hear people talking about using the word unsafe to mean basically uncomfortable. I do think that leads to problems where people sort of conflate opinions with violence. And that's something that I've been increasingly seeing on campus. They don't make a major distinction between those two things...And I said, if you create a situation in which a professor - when you say you feel unsafe, they assume nine times out of 10 you mean something more like uncomfortable. That's a very dangerous situation for people who are genuinely unsafe. Certainly, like, when I was in college, if you said you were unsafe, you'd be like, oh, my God, we have to call the police. What do we need to do? Watering down terms that are so central to people's actual safety is dangerous."
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Old 4th June 2017, 12:30 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
We all have our crosses to bear
Too true- and I am happy to be one for you!!!
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Old 4th June 2017, 08:46 PM   #136
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I have just found three videos on YouTube relating to this.

First Hour of the 23rd of May, 2017 meeting

Interview with Prof Weinstein by KING5 News - Link to the final news report is in the description of this video.

Evergreen President's statments to the Activists on the 26th of May, 2017
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Old 5th June 2017, 04:20 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Too true- and I am happy to be one for you!!!
A bear?
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Old 5th June 2017, 06:42 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
A bear?
Is ISF going to turn into a furry forum?
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Old 5th June 2017, 08:05 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
A bear?
No - mediocre try though.
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Old 5th June 2017, 08:24 AM   #140
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gone but not forgotten

Originally Posted by Graham2001 View Post
I have just found three videos on YouTube relating to this.

First Hour of the 23rd of May, 2017 meeting

Interview with Prof Weinstein by KING5 News - Link to the final news report is in the description of this video.

Evergreen President's statments to the Activists on the 26th of May, 2017
A video showing the students confronting Professor Weinstein has been disappeared. Scott Greenfield wrote, "But embarrassing enough to demand that it be removed from the internet because they felt bullied by the reaction to what they did."
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Old 5th June 2017, 09:00 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Are you suggesting that I as a Jew born in the 1970s, suffer from PTSD from the Holocaust and the Russian pogroms? The Inquisition?

That would be cool.
Only if your grandparents survived and passed those patterns of behavior gained from the abuse onto your parents who then transmitted it down to successive generations.
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Old 5th June 2017, 09:02 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
Missed the point. Why does it matter "if it sounds like Trump". If it even does sound like that... (Evidence missing!)
Because Trump is not normal IMO.
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Old 5th June 2017, 10:43 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
No - mediocre try though.
A man's reach should exceed his grasp or what's a heaven for?
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Old 5th June 2017, 11:33 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
A link to FIRE. Not sure whether or not it was the one you wanted.
Yes Thank you for making up for my apathy!
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Old 5th June 2017, 11:36 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
And calling the college students racist and coddled by Oppression Olympics coaches doesn't sound like something Trump would say? It does to me.
What does that have to do with anything? Just because some other jerk does an ineffective jerky kind of a thing doesn't make it not an ineffective jerky kind of a thing . If you're taking your cues for behavior from Trump... you might want to step back and re-evaluate that approach.
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Old 5th June 2017, 11:39 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
I'm inclined to think it was, but of course I'm undoubtedly colored by the biased lens of "why, in my day..."

How the hell is that happening already.
Inorigte? Seriously, I cringe every time the phrase "kids these days" comes out of my mouth, and it just keeps happening more and more.
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Old 5th June 2017, 11:40 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
Here is a portion of an email written by Professor Weinstein: "I raise this sickening history because the Nazi High Command explicitly rationalized their depraved, deliberately cruel extermination Jews, homosexuals, Jehovah’s Witnesses and Roma with an overt appeal to Darwinism. As a Jewish evolutionary biologist, I do not think I could possibly be any more aware of the hazard posed by weaponized “Darwinian” logic. When I offered to provide an evolutionary perspective on “race” it was not to justify oppression, as many seem to have imagined. It was, quite to the contrary, with an eye towards permanently ending oppression by understanding and addressing it at its evolutionary root. I truly believe that scientific enlightenment of this sort could ensure that genocide never happens again—to anyone."

This is the guy that the students think should resign?
I think the problem here is with the assumption of "think" with respect to these particular students.
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Old 5th June 2017, 11:44 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
I should not have to tolerate the KKK, Al Qaeda, Islamists, Neo-Nazis, etc.

I have every right to protest them, give them the finger, and encourage others to not associate with them.

I have every right to call them "the enemy".


Cause' thats what they are.
I agree with that.

For clarity, however, I'll expand and say that protest and opposition don't imply that you have any right to infringe upon their civil rights. Opposing them doesn't exclude them from the right to free speech, nor would it justify threats of violence or coercion.

Not assuming you hold that view, just making my own clear.
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Old 5th June 2017, 11:46 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
That's the thing, though: They haven't converted in large numbers. The GOP has been a shambles for years. It's ideologically bankrupt. Its presidential primary was a clown car spectacle.

Middle class whites should have been ripe to be peeled off by a Democratic party with something better to offer. Instead, they got Hillary Clinton.

They looked across the aisle, and saw the same corruption, the same ideological bankruptcy.

Some of us saw Bernie Sanders, but we know how that went. You're looking for a conversion in the wrong direction. This was an election cycle for middle class whites to flee the GOP, right into the welcoming arms of the Democratic Party. But the message has been getting through loud and clear: middle class whites aren't welcome on the left.
No kidding. If Sanders had been the candidate, both my gun-toting, moderately conservative spouse and I would've voted for him.
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Old 5th June 2017, 11:50 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Very sick of the youth of our colleges being so damn obsessed with race.

We are one nation. We will either succeed together or we will fail divided.

There is no other option.

Any student or teacher advocating race politics and racial divisions, is an enemy of the people.

We should all unite due to common ideology, beliefs and goals.

Suggesting that people who have common goals and beliefs should divide themselves by race or religion or ethnicity, is simply doing bidding of those who wish to rule us all.
I hear what you're saying... but I think it's a little more complicated than that. If for no other reason than that we don't all have a common ideology, let alone common beliefs or goals.

Ideology and beliefs (not really a big difference between the two) are inextricably bound up with culture and tradition. And while it's not set in stone, there's a rather high (and obvious) correlation between ethnicity and culture.

You can't protect a traditional cultural norm for a subgroup of people without experience conflict when it comes to belief.
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Old 5th June 2017, 11:52 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Not sure whom I'm declaring guilty by association here, Rachel or Evergreen State? Rachel Corrie was in Israel to complete her senior college project, which was to join ISM protestors and to initiate a sister city project between Olympia and a city in Gaza. Evergreen State is definitely a hotbed of special snowflakes.
You're too narrow here. Washington State, nay the entire Pacific Northwest, is pretty much special snowflake heaven.
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Old 5th June 2017, 12:40 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
Because Trump is not normal IMO.
Just because somebody is not normal it doesn't mean they cannot have a point once in a while (See also "Emperor has no clothes"). And still you need to provide evidence that sentence does sound like that person.
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Old 5th June 2017, 07:29 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
A video showing the students confronting Professor Weinstein has been disappeared. Scott Greenfield wrote, "But embarrassing enough to demand that it be removed from the internet because they felt bullied by the reaction to what they did."
None of the three videos I linked to were that video, I expected it to go, the narrative being used by the students confronting Professor Weinstein, was that the film in question had been 'stolen' and then 'edited' to make them look bad.

From what I've heard checking the alt-right youtube channels is that the excerpts they were using came from an hour long video, there is also a comment in the article you linked to that the video probably has been saved offline and may come up again at a later date, as controversial things often do.

Edit: Why Evolution is True has updated it's comments on the events at Evergreen and one of the commenters made the same point that the NYT Op-Ed did:

Quote:
The incident at Evergreen State is political gold for the right wing and a grotesque embarrassment for mainstream liberals. I had not heard of this school before the incident and I suspect that 90% of the American populace had not either. Now the right wing can use the “protestors” as exemplars of so-called liberals everywhere and suddenly become the protector of free speech.
https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress...bs-vandalized/
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Old 6th June 2017, 07:20 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by Graham2001 View Post
Quote:
Now the right wing can use the “protestors” as exemplars of so-called liberals everywhere and suddenly become the protector of free speech.
First off, conservatives didn't suddenly become the protectors of free speech. That's been going on for a long time now. If that commenter hasn't heard of FIRE before, they haven't been paying attention to the issue. Second, Evergreen is more extreme than most other places, but the basic dynamic is quite common among liberal activists at colleges. Third, this commenter seems more interested in harm to the image of liberals than to the actual harm done at Evergreen. That's not a good sign.
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Old 6th June 2017, 07:53 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
First off, conservatives didn't suddenly become the protectors of free speech. That's been going on for a long time now.
...for those examples of free speech which serve their partisan interests.

The ACLU, an organization which actually HAS been a protector of free speech since its inception, butts heads with conservative policy far more than liberal.
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Old 6th June 2017, 07:55 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
First off, conservatives didn't suddenly become the protectors of free speech. That's been going on for a long time now. If that commenter hasn't heard of FIRE before, they haven't been paying attention to the issue. Second, Evergreen is more extreme than most other places, but the basic dynamic is quite common among liberal activists at colleges. Third, this commenter seems more interested in harm to the image of liberals than to the actual harm done at Evergreen. That's not a good sign.
Well, it could be that he thinks that what's happening at Evergreen is actually harmful, but in order to convince other liberals that this is a bad idea he points out the harm that they do themselves by not speaking out against it.

The one doesn't rule out the other.
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Old 6th June 2017, 08:29 AM   #157
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Argh! Not 'liberals', leftists; hysterical, frothing, swivel eyed leftists.
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Old 6th June 2017, 08:40 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Argh! Not 'liberals', leftists; hysterical, frothing, swivel eyed leftists.
I really dislike how the right-wing media turned 'liberal' into a dirty word. Most of the people, when given the classical definition of the word, would think that is describes them and their politics...
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Old 6th June 2017, 08:48 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by Newtons Bit View Post
I really dislike how the right-wing media turned 'liberal' into a dirty word. Most of the people, when given the classical definition of the word, would think that is describes them and their politics...
Indeed.
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Old 6th June 2017, 08:48 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
...for those examples of free speech which serve their partisan interests.
What do you imagine their partisan interests are? And what evidence do you have that they only take cases which advance those partisan interests?
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