ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags James Hodgkinson , shooting incidents , Steve Scalise , violent rhetoric

Reply
Old 14th June 2017, 06:22 AM   #41
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 28,067
The shooter is white, so he's not a terrorist.
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 06:24 AM   #42
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 18,070
An attack on members of Congress isn't an attack on any single party, it's an attack on our Democracy and no one should stand for it.
https://twitter.com/jbillinson/statu...68736016498688

I am pleased to be getting similar semtiments and wishes for recovery on my Twitter feed. Will use it as a chance to prune if I see otherwise.
__________________
'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 06:25 AM   #43
Marcus
Master Poster
 
Marcus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,665
Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
That seems pretty silly.

We don't even know yet if it was his presence that precipitated the attack in the first place.
The shooter showed up first without a gun, asking if it was Dems or Repubs practicing. So if appears, at this stage anyway, that he just wanted to shoot some Republicans.
Marcus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 06:27 AM   #44
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 16,837
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
That seems pretty silly.

We don't even know yet if it was his presence that precipitated the attack in the first place.
"Ordinary" members of Congress are not usually accompanied by police, but those in leadership positions are.

It's not that Scalise was a specific target, but because a leader was present, the security detail was also present, and could return fire. If no members of the leadership were present, the gunman would have had no armed opposition.
Meadmaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 06:30 AM   #45
Jim_MDP
Philosopher
 
Jim_MDP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: N.Cal/S.Or
Posts: 5,721
Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
The shooter showed up first without a gun, asking if it was Dems or Repubs practicing. So if appears, at this stage anyway, that he just wanted to shoot some Republicans.

So it may have been both... precipitated by the GOP team, and the attack possibly shortened by a "ranking" members' protective detail (both parties get security details).


eta: Damn... I'm slow. I claim "cocktails" as my excuse (yes, I'm still awake).
__________________
----------------------
Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything.

"Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust.
"Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000.

Last edited by Jim_MDP; 14th June 2017 at 06:32 AM.
Jim_MDP is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 06:36 AM   #46
logger
Suspended
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,198
Gunman targets Republicans

Another LEFTIST targets Republicans. Why? Because this is what leftists do, you cannot go against the god of liberalism without consequences. Now some here will be upset with politicizing this tragedy from the start, good! It needs to be shouted from the rooftops what violent scum leftists are!
logger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 06:37 AM   #47
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,688
There's not enough information yet to determine motive. Way too soon to say he wanted to kill a Republican(s), even if his previous question is accurate.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 06:38 AM   #48
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 3157'S 11557'E
Posts: 11,459
Who?
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 06:39 AM   #49
Tony Stark
Philosopher
 
Tony Stark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 9,626
But Republican scum attempting to cause thousands of Americans to die a year so rich people can get richer is totally cool.

Also, you have no idea if this was a leftist or not.

Last edited by Tony Stark; 14th June 2017 at 06:40 AM.
Tony Stark is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 06:39 AM   #50
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,518
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
There's not enough information yet to determine motive. Way too soon to say he wanted to kill a Republican(s), even if his previous question is accurate.
Appears to be two different people.
As @AlanMCole notes, Jeff Duncan says the man who asked him about party affiliation was in running clothes, Flake says shooter wore jeans.
Still too much fog to determine anything.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 06:39 AM   #51
LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
 
LTC8K6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 19,049
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Nobody is dead.
Maybe the shooter is...it's uncertain.

Unfortunately the first reaction these days is often:

"How can I/we use this?"

I remember when it was claimed that Giffords was shot because of something that looked like a cross hair in a political ad.

These days we have acceptance of all sorts of violent rhetoric and opinions, up to and including killing your opponents.

Or even killing people who just disagree with you.

It's just par for the course now.

Can't get what you want? Preach violence. Few care anymore.
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing.

2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
LTC8K6 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 06:41 AM   #52
LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
 
LTC8K6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 19,049
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Same person, I think.

Went up first to ask the question and case the area.

Went back and changed and brought the rifle and the pistol.
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing.

2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
LTC8K6 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 06:41 AM   #53
fagin
Illuminator
 
fagin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: As far away from casebro as possible.
Posts: 4,635
You might want to ask for a merge with the current, slightly more sensible thread.

Or not...
__________________
There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda
fagin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 06:41 AM   #54
phiwum
Philosopher
 
phiwum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,459
Let's wait and see precisely what happened and why.

It sure might be a result of partisanism taken to incredible extremes. And it might not. It might be a delusional nut in the style of Hinckley.

Sure, your willingness to politicize a terrible event is bad, but the fact that near total ignorance plays no restraining role is even worse.
phiwum is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 06:44 AM   #55
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,688
Might be an insane Anarchist who wanted to kill any politician. Or maybe an insane guy who just wanted to kill anybody at all.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 06:45 AM   #56
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 18,070
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Might be an insane Anarchist who wanted to kill any politician. Or maybe an insane guy who just wanted to kill anybody at all.
Could be.
__________________
'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 06:45 AM   #57
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
 
a_unique_person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 38,061
Crazy **** going down in the USA these days.
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes
a_unique_person is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 06:45 AM   #58
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 17,688
Originally Posted by fagin View Post
You might want to ask for a merge with the current, slightly more sensible thread.

Or not...
I already did that.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 06:46 AM   #59
phiwum
Philosopher
 
phiwum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,459
Originally Posted by RussDill View Post
Really interesting to see the mask drop on some members when things like this happen.
Tony hasn't hidden behind a mask. His views are consistent and public.
phiwum is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 06:46 AM   #60
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
 
a_unique_person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 38,061
Originally Posted by fagin View Post
You might want to ask for a merge with the current, slightly more sensible thread.

Or not...
No. It's just as nonsensical.
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes
a_unique_person is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 06:50 AM   #61
Argumemnon
World Maker
 
Argumemnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the thick of things
Posts: 67,182
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Another LEFTIST targets Republicans. Why? Because this is what leftists do, you cannot go against the god of liberalism without consequences. Now some here will be upset with politicizing this tragedy from the start, good! It needs to be shouted from the rooftops what violent scum leftists are!
As opposed to the rightist shooters in other instances?

What you have is violent humans. Deal with the individuals. Stop trying to create groups to oppress. That's what Hitler (who was a right-winger) did.
__________________
<Roar!>

Argumemnon is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 06:51 AM   #62
Tony Stark
Philosopher
 
Tony Stark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 9,626
Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
As opposed to the rightist shooters in other instances?

What you have is violent humans. Deal with the individuals. Stop trying to create groups to oppress. That's what Hitler (who was a right-winger) did.
Don't be silly. Hitler was bad therefore by definition he was a leftist.
Tony Stark is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 06:53 AM   #63
NoahFence
Psycho Kitty
 
NoahFence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 20,903
Duplicate thread
__________________
you to the ignorant, uneducated portion ofAmerica too short sighted to see what's right in front of your cheeto loving faces.
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 06:54 AM   #64
logger
Suspended
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,198
Its fascinating, you could count on one hand violence coming from the right. But any scum leftists could do this. They're like ISIS in so many ways.
logger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 06:57 AM   #65
Tony Stark
Philosopher
 
Tony Stark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 9,626
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Its fascinating, you could count on one hand violence coming from the right. But any scum leftists could do this. They're like ISIS in so many ways.
Yes, "leftists"* try to kill Republicans practically every day.

*You actually don't know this was a "leftist".
Tony Stark is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 07:00 AM   #66
logger
Suspended
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,198
Of course this comes from the angry pissed off left, they simply can't help themselves. But they do have their accomplices that play dumb. But truly they all work together at it. Probably another reason they have a soft spot for Islam.
logger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 07:01 AM   #67
Mooseman
Thinker
 
Mooseman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 215
My heart is with my former colleagues, their families & staff, and the US Capitol Police- public servants and heroes today and every day," Giffords said in a tweet.

Interesting
Mooseman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 07:03 AM   #68
Cain
Straussian
 
Cain's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 11,357
Look, the tolerant left.

And the guy used a gun. Another hypocrite Democrat.

Teehee!
__________________
November 2nd, 2016:
Cain: Americans are so ******* stupid.
Shalamar: This is why I'm certain Trump will win.
Cain is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 07:03 AM   #69
Marcus
Master Poster
 
Marcus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,665
IF the story is true that the shooter first asked if it was Republicans or Democrats practicing, then it appears that he just wanted to shoot some Republicans.
Marcus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 07:04 AM   #70
Arcade22
Illuminator
 
Arcade22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 4,060
Americans shooting each-other. Sounds like another day in paradise.
__________________
Freedom you all want, you want freedom. Why then do you haggle over a more or less? Freedom can only be the whole of freedom; a piece of freedom is not freedom. You despair of the possibility of obtaining the whole of freedom, freedom from everything - yes, you consider it insanity even to wish this? - Well, then leave off chasing after the phantom, and spend your pains on something better than the - unattainable. - Max Stirner
Arcade22 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 07:08 AM   #71
BobTheCoward
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,291
Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Look, the tolerant left.

And the guy used a gun. Another hypocrite Democrat.

Teehee!
Gun ownership rates are lower for Democrats than Republicans. 22% vs 49%
BobTheCoward is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 07:10 AM   #72
Degeneve
Muse
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 730
I just Wonder whether this could lead Scalise to reconsider his position toward the second amendement and gun control.

Although the NRA money will most probably prevent him to think more than necessary...
Degeneve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 07:10 AM   #73
logger
Suspended
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,198
Of course many are saying, "we don't know if this was a leftists" that's just more circling of the wagons. When will the left realize their rhetoric is why they have so many violent people on their side?
logger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 07:12 AM   #74
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,518
Originally Posted by Degeneve View Post
I just Wonder whether this could lead Scalise to reconsider his position toward the second amendement and gun control.
Worked for Saint Reagan. It's weird to think that he and Bush the Greater would be considered gun grabbers by today's GOP.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 07:14 AM   #75
Tony Stark
Philosopher
 
Tony Stark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 9,626
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Of course many are saying, "we don't know if this was a leftists" that's just more circling of the wagons. When will the left realize their rhetoric is why they have so many violent people on their side?
How many exactly is "so many"?
Tony Stark is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 07:18 AM   #76
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 16,837
Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Same person, I think.

Went up first to ask the question and case the area.

Went back and changed and brought the rifle and the pistol.
Target of opportunity?

Jogging by. Sees some old fat guys playing baseball, wonder what's going on. Realizes they are congressmen, asks if they are Republicans or Democrats. Decides that destiny is calling him. Goes and gets gun(s).

I had occasion recently to watch the video of the live coverage of the Kennedy assassination, at one point, Eric Sevaried said (as closely as I remember), "There was speculation that it could have been the action of someone on the lunatic right, but it looks like it might have been someone on the lunatic left."

Such bluntness from that bygone era seemed refreshing. He wasn't couching it in psychobabble. He wasn't making excuses about conditions that might lead someone to commit such an act. He wasn't trying to pin the blame, however indirectly, on one particular ideology or party affiliation. He was saying that there were lunatics in the world, and that these extremists were just crazy people.

Whoever did this today will probably have some sort of "cause" that he believes in, but that shouldn't be take as anything other than the particular manifestation of his lunacy. We don't know who did this or why, but we know he was a lunatic.
Meadmaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 07:20 AM   #77
NoahFence
Psycho Kitty
 
NoahFence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 20,903
What are the chances that the moron in charge uses this to whip up his armed base?
__________________
you to the ignorant, uneducated portion ofAmerica too short sighted to see what's right in front of your cheeto loving faces.
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 07:24 AM   #78
Shalamar
Dark Lord of the JREF
 
Shalamar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,994
Unfortunate, and I condemn the violence. I'll also wait, and hope we'll find out why this was done.
__________________

"The truth is out there. But the lies are inside your head."
Shalamar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 07:24 AM   #79
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,518
Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
What are the chances that the moron in charge uses this to whip up his armed base?
100%.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2017, 07:30 AM   #80
logger
Suspended
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,198
Its truly commical the ones who think they're the most tolerant are the ones who are intolerant, when will the left admit they have created this with their rhetoric? Sure they'll come on and say this is an awful act but they dont mean it, they'll go right back to fomenting these acts.
logger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:23 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.