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Tags James Hodgkinson , shooting incidents , Steve Scalise

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Old 14th June 2017, 10:33 AM   #241
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
I live in her district. You are of course correct.
It is what makes the claim of James Holmes as insane truly disheartening. There is a fundamental difference between what he and Jared had in their heads.
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:34 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
This is really just semantics.

They get it because the law says they do. And will continue to unless positive action is taken to change the law.
Agreed. Which is not inflicting something. Taking positive action to be less generous is not inflicting harm.
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:36 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
I don't really give a crap if Steve Scalise dies.
I see those threatened section suspensions haven't slowed you down a bit.
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:37 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Agreed. Which is not inflicting something. Taking positive action to be less generous is not inflicting harm.
Of course it is. Many people will literally die as a result of their positive action.
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:37 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
And logger, you, and I are not united on almost anything.
-------------------------------
Quote:
I live in Arizona. You cannot claim the giffords shooting was political. That poor man was truly insane. We often misuse that phrase to describe attackers as short hand for perverted values. That was not this situation. He truly lost the ability to distinguish right from wrong.
Quote:
It's an factual observation. As when I recognize your arguments as mere parroting of the media you consume. Word for word in many cases. It takes no sophistication to type out a comment you just overheard on the TV or radio.
Quote:
I did. It is far worse on the right. As a libertarian, I have no fear from what Democrats will do. I am more worried about right wing extremist groups in this country.

Well that's three agreements on just on one page.
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:37 AM   #246
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James Hodgkinson of Belleville, Ill., belongs to a public Facebook group called "Terminate the Republican Party
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:38 AM   #247
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
Of course it is. Many people will literally die as a result of their positive action.
They will die, but their death is not inflicted on them. They are dying because their body fails. Others being less generous is not inflicting that.
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:39 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
They will die, but their death is not inflicted on them. They are dying because their body fails. Others being less generous is not inflicting that.
The positive action taken to be less generous is what does the inflicting.
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:40 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
Of course it does. Many people will die as a result. Far more than have ever died due to terrorism.
More than those who lose their life to medical malpractice each year?

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-s...medical-errors
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:40 AM   #250
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
The positive action taken to be less generous is what does the inflicting.
It doesn't inflict. If I give someone a sandwich every day, and then one day I stop, I am not inflicting them with hunger.
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:41 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
James Hodgkinson of Belleville, Ill., belongs to a public Facebook group called "Terminate the Republican Party
Well there is at least one other member of that group posting here
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:43 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
They will die, but their death is not inflicted on them. They are dying because their body fails. Others being less generous is not inflicting that.
And I suppose if a hospital takes someone who would live off of live support and throws them out on the street because that person can't afford to pay, their death is the fault of their own body not the hospital.

Last edited by Tony Stark; 14th June 2017 at 10:44 AM.
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:43 AM   #253
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
It doesn't inflict. If I give someone a sandwich every day, and then one day I stop, I am not inflicting them with hunger.
That's not positive action. Positive action would be deliberately seeking out and convincing others to click an "unsubscribe" button on the sandwich delivery service. There are people in congress right now who are positively arguing that we should not be subsidizing healthcare, and that very much is an infliction.
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:43 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
And I suppose if a hospital takes someone who would live off of live support and throws them out on the street because that person can't afford to pay, their deaths are the fault of their own bodies not the hospital.
Yes.
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:43 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
More than those who lose their life to medical malpractice each year?

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-s...medical-errors
Hilarious. Republican scum are protecting citizens from potential malpractice by denying them access to health care! Best argument ever!
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:44 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Well there is at least one other member of that group posting here
enough. All of us.

Enough.
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:44 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
enough. All of us.

Enough.
No.
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:47 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol

Who could have guessed another violent leftist!

http://www.bnd.com/news/local/article156065789.html
Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
"It's time to destroy Trump and company." That seems clear enough.

ETA: He has died from his injuries.
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Depends on how define "threat."



Removing health care subsidies and the like (I won't apply this to every provision, obviously) does not inflict damage.
So it's okay to kill workers, as long as most don't die due to a deliberate act?
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:48 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
So it's okay to kill workers, as long as most don't die due to a deliberate act?
Just because something is neither inflicted nor a threat doesn't mean it is okay. I'm not arguing what Republicans are doing is good, okay, or not bad.
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:49 AM   #260
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Ninja'd.
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:50 AM   #261
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Trump announced that the shooter was dead. I'm not sure if he was first to say that publicly. Was that a "leak" which was premature ahead of a police press conference?
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:51 AM   #262
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"Sure they're going to die without help, but nobody's killing them."

"Sure the building is a death trap without codes and enforcement, but nobody's setting it on fire."

I know some of the hardline-ier libertarians are against building codes but everyone else seems cool with them. Why is the economic drag of having and enforcing building codes an acceptable imposition but not the economic drag of having decent public health care? Disease can spread just as well as fire can.

What the hell do we have a society for anyways

But yeah don't shoot anybody please

Last edited by Lithrael; 14th June 2017 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:51 AM   #263
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Baseball practice shooter wrote this to his local paper: "One of my favorite TV shows is “The Rachel Maddow Show”
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:51 AM   #264
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Wait, is this a thread about healthcare or gun control? I'm so confused!
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:53 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Wait, is this a thread about healthcare or gun control? I'm so confused!
It is about someone attempting to kill people who are attempting to do something that will cause the deaths of many Americans.
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:54 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by Jim_MDP View Post
Actually... he represents the Louisiana First, and has a tendency to cozy up to White Supremacists.
But I still wouldn't advocate a "2nd Amendment solution".

Dial it back a notch Tony... you're the flip side of Skeptic Tank's bigotry.
Yeah, sadly the poster in question is a Bizarro version of the over the top Trump supporters he hates so much.
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:55 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
It is about someone attempting to kill people who are attempting to do something that will cause the deaths of many Americans.

You know, you can justify an bombing of a Abortion Clinic with those exact words.
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:55 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Yeah, sadly the poster in question is a Bizarro version of the over the top Trump supporters he hates so much.
Except that I'm right and Republicans really are total scum.
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:56 AM   #269
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
You know, you can justify an bombing of a Abortion Clinic with those exact words.
If fetuses were people.
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:57 AM   #270
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Wait, is this a thread about healthcare or gun control? I'm so confused!
The shooter had cruel and violent parents. He was circumcised.
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:58 AM   #271
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
The shooter had cruel and violent parents. He was circumcised.
He was alive. Now he's dead. He was a nut.
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:58 AM   #272
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
If fetuses were people.
People are convinced they are.
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:58 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
This ungrateful gun nut was shooting at the very people who so enthusiastically allowed him to own his gun. I wonder if the targets appreciate the irony?
I wonder how long until this tweet from almost exactly a year ago is deleted.
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:59 AM   #274
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What I am scared about is a Spanish CIvil War scenario. Where the extremist on both sides think that violence is legitimate,come to dominate the politics of a nation, and in the end Democracy is dead no matter who wins;you only have your choice of dictatorships.
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Old 14th June 2017, 10:59 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
The shooter had cruel and violent parents. He was circumcised.
Ah, he was a female Muslim.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:08 AM   #276
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The WAPO has shut down it's comments section on this story....I shudder about what those posts were like.
And of course, the shooter has handed Trump and the GOP the first victory they have had in a long time.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:10 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I am saying in the US violent overthrow as a solution talk is built into republican rhetoric. They discuss if Obama went too far there could be a second amendment solution.

In the US, Democrats do not have violent overthrow rhetoric built in the same way. For Trump, we see a lot of 25th amendment solution talk.

You're right, "the left" actually shoot people. Bike locks, baseball bats, fire.

We can go back and forth all day about how Repubs are evil and Dems are good, or the other way around. They both probably damage our country equally, just in different ways. It depends on what you consider to be damage, that's all.

Skimming this thread it seems it was derailed at the first reply. A bunch of Republicans get shot and the conversation doesn't even get off the ground - it's now about how "good" dems are, even though one just shot a bunch of people. Ya okay. One side good, other side bad.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:14 AM   #278
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WaPo reporting the shooter had been living out of a gym bag for at least the past month and a half in Alexandria.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:14 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Not surprising. This sort of rhetoric has been going on forever. I didn't vote for Obama, but what truly surprised at the angry spittle directed his way after his first victory. Ordinary folks declaring he be shot. That was a new level for me.

Let's not forget the armed cowards that occupied the Malheur refuge; think about how badly that might have turned out. This isn't going to get any better, especially if the partisans turn this latest shooting into political fodder.

It's already begun, and it's disgusting.
You have always had a certain amount of fiery rhetoric in American Politics, but what is disturbing is the amount,and that it is becoming more common on both sides of the poltical spectrum.
And of course, It is all the OTHER"s side fault.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:17 AM   #280
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Hilarious. Republican scum are protecting citizens from potential malpractice by denying them access to health care! Best argument ever!
How you spun that one is quite entertaining.

The ACA has no relationship to incompetent doctors or others in the medical field.

For the record, what's your over/under guess on how many deaths might be attributed to a reduction/removal of health care benefits and the number of people whose death may be attributed to medical malpractice?

I believe more individuals are killed by incompetence than die because they don't have access to adequate medical care.
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