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Tags James Hodgkinson , shooting incidents , Steve Scalise , violent rhetoric

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Old 14th June 2017, 11:21 AM   #281
BStrong
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
It is about someone attempting to kill people who are attempting to do something that will cause the deaths of many Americans.
I detect a bit of the zero-sum argument in there.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:22 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
How you spun that one is quite entertaining.

The ACA has no relationship to incompetent doctors or others in the medical field.

For the record, what's your over/under guess on how many deaths might be attributed to a reduction/removal of health care benefits and the number of people whose death may be attributed to medical malpractice?

I believe more individuals are killed by incompetence than die because they don't have access to adequate medical care.
But it is still something that needs to be considered in a policy. There are a small amount of people killed by being unable to release their seatbelt. If you are going to calculate the cost benefit of a seatbelt policy, you need to factor that in.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:26 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
This is just another indicator that both sides of the aisle have their problems. I'm with those who hope that one day, soon, we are all going to wake up and realize that very very few of us are scum who want other people to to die or thieves who want to take other people's money
At least Trump finally saw his party of people celebrating the deaths of thousands of americans. It was just him hosting it for the republican health care bill.

If they cared about the death toll they wouldn't be ramming things through before there is any time to read let alone analyze what the effects will be. They knew the death toll would make them look bad, and did it anyway. Nothing evil about that surely those are great human beings there.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:28 AM   #284
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
It's fine with me if you have that attitude.

Just don't act shocked when people get violent, on either side. Don't feel sorry. Don't say the victims didn't deserve it, etc.

Just act like it's normal.

When you are at a protest, and you get hit on the head with a bicycle lock, just pass it off as the price of admission.
They need to be peaceful when thrown into the gutter to die. Fighting for your life there is totally uncalled for.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:30 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
For the most part, they are people like you and me who just want to make things better. You and I may disagree with them on some fundamental issues but that doesn't make them bad people.
Exactly, just like when someone is committing genocide they are probably nice family men. No reason to be uncivil about the whole thing. It is like a lamb and 3 wolves peacefully deciding who to have for dinner.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:30 AM   #286
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I should not be shocked by the number of people who are de facto justifying the shootings, but I am. I really expected better on this site.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:32 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
What if he posted that he hates gays and gays should be "destroyed'?
Killing gay people is a minor political disagreement not enough to stop being civil over. No reason for violence to break out just because queers are dying.

Hell killing transwomen isn't even a hate crime in many states.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:33 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
It is about someone attempting to kill people who are attempting to do something that will cause the deaths of many Americans.
Help me understand: You're not saying anybody *should* try to kill GOP lawmakers. You're just saying it would be a good thing if they happened to die, e.g., from someone trying to kill them.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:33 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I should not be shocked by the number of people who are de facto justifying the shootings, but I am. I really expected better on this site.
I'd be shocked. Do you have a running count of these "de facto" justifiers?
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:34 AM   #290
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
It's not going to get any better, imo.

Using or threatening violence to get your way is here to stay for a while.

Heck, it's practically celebrated these days.
YEs you are supposed to lay down and die if that is what the political leaders want.

You would happily die and not fight back if the laws demanded it clearly.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:35 AM   #291
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Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
I am totally with you in all cases of verbal hyperbole in response to policies and political decisions. Not so much when the original topic is a violent attack that could've ended lives.
ANd if the policy will kill you, who cares only a terrorist would fight that. Now killing people over taxes that is what true americans do, just look at our founders. Killing people because their policies will kill you, that is unamerican.

Only money is worth killing over.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:38 AM   #292
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
That's pretty much how I feel. I may not like the current administration much, but I don't want anything to happen to them! Everything is cyclical anyways. The tide will turn, the Democrats will be elected, they'll do something stupid, and then the Republicans will take over again...
And a death toll of 50k in that revolution due to the lethal republican policies no one can talk about it as one of the high death toll wars in US history.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:38 AM   #293
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
It is about someone attempting to kill people who are attempting to do something that will cause the deaths of many Americans.
Play baseball?
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:38 AM   #294
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Help me understand: You're not saying anybody *should* try to kill GOP lawmakers. You're just saying it would be a good thing if they happened to die, e.g., from someone trying to kill them.
I'm saying that I care about their lives as much as they do the people they are supposed to serve.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:38 AM   #295
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What is this about 1000s dying if "ObamaCare" is repealed?
Were there dead bodies stacked in the street before the ACA ?

No ?

The sky is NOT falling Tony, get some rest.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:40 AM   #296
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
Of course it is. Many people will literally die as a result of their positive action.
But the deaths of these people is a good thing to conservative ideology.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:41 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Killing gay people is a minor political disagreement not enough to stop being civil over. No reason for violence to break out just because queers are dying.

Hell killing transwomen isn't even a hate crime in many states.
If the violence is okay, then it's okay for both sides to employ it.

We can all just say it's war, and that's what happens to people in wartime.

None of the hatred or vile behavior matters then.

We can all just step over the bodies and reload.

If your sister shows up on the wrong side, shoot her and move on.

Remarking on it would be silly.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:42 AM   #298
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Originally Posted by Busta Capp View Post
What is this about 1000s dying if "ObamaCare" is repealed?
Were there dead bodies stacked in the street before the ACA ?

No ?

The sky is NOT falling Tony, get some rest.
Many many Americans died because they didn't have healthcare pre ACA. Some still do. And more will if the Republican human trash get their way.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:43 AM   #299
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
If the violence is okay, then it's okay for both sides to employ it.

We can all just say it's war, and that's what happens to people in wartime.

None of the hatred or vile behavior matters then.

We can all just step over the bodies and reload.

If your sister shows up on the wrong side, shoot her and move on.

Remarking on it would be silly.
We did that once in this country, and it was the worst bloodbath in US history. It was called the Civil War. I don't want to repeat it.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:44 AM   #300
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
How you spun that one is quite entertaining.

The ACA has no relationship to incompetent doctors or others in the medical field.

For the record, what's your over/under guess on how many deaths might be attributed to a reduction/removal of health care benefits and the number of people whose death may be attributed to medical malpractice?

I believe more individuals are killed by incompetence than die because they don't have access to adequate medical care.
Even if true so what? We can see how do end one pretty easily, making a mistake proof system is rather more difficult.

We know that about 15K a year used to die from lack of access to health care. But they don't matter I guess because of reasons.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:44 AM   #301
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I guess all the outrage about Gianforte was not really genuine for some folks. It was apparently actually okay for him to use a bit of violence for things he believes in.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:46 AM   #302
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
I guess all the outrage about Gianforte was not really genuine for some folks. It was apparently actually okay for him to use a bit of violence for things he believes in.
Like screwing over poor people so rich people can get richer.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:46 AM   #303
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Internet Tough Guy is unattractive no matter what your political persuasion. Some of us would benefit greatly from stepping away from the computer for a few days. If you can't wish peace and well-wishes on your political enemies on a day like today, then you need a little down time or re-education or something. A buddhist retreat wouldn't kill you either.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:46 AM   #304
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I should not be shocked by the number of people who are de facto justifying the shootings, but I am. I really expected better on this site.
I am not justifying this shooting but I am showing that I can see really well that we are getting into a situation that is very much like those that most people accept as justifying violent resistance.

Is it acceptable to violently resist polices that will kill you? We commonly hold that sort of political violence is OK.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:47 AM   #305
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
Like screwing over poor people so rich people can get richer.
Yes.

If the violence is okay, then that seems a bit minor. (and probably unnecessary since with violence you can just directly rob the poor)
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:48 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Internet Tough Guy is unattractive no matter what your political persuasion. Some of us would benefit greatly from stepping away from the computer for a few days. If you can't wish peace and well-wishes on your political enemies on a day like today, then you need a little down time or re-education or something. A buddhist retreat wouldn't kill you either.
I don't see the point of pretending to care about scumbags like Steve Scalise.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:49 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
I don't see the point of pretending to care about scumbags like Steve Scalise.
I didn't say "pretending." Actually caring. Loving him, even.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:50 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by Busta Capp View Post
What is this about 1000s dying if "ObamaCare" is repealed?
Were there dead bodies stacked in the street before the ACA ?
We know lots of conditions that people died from because they lacked health care. The only question is the scale of the deaths.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:51 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
I didn't say "pretending." Actually caring. Loving him, even.
Why would I do that. He's a vile piece of garbage.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:51 AM   #310
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It's your life; spend it as you wish. I hope that it's working out well for you this way.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:51 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
If the violence is okay, then it's okay for both sides to employ it.
Then all the resistance groups are wrong and we should view Mandela as the terrorist he was. Hell we are a nation founded by terrorists.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:53 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
I don't see the point of pretending to care about scumbags like Steve Scalise.
So you organize and try to vote him out of power.

Calling him names or encouraging violence isn't going to get anything done, except probably help him to raise money and get his voters to turn out.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:53 AM   #313
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
We did that once in this country, and it was the worst bloodbath in US history. It was called the Civil War. I don't want to repeat it.
Not really. More battlefield deaths in WWII. The majority of the deaths were not bloody but from disease after all. So shouldn't it be worst ************* in american history as the runs killed more people than violence in it?
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:55 AM   #314
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
I guess all the outrage about Gianforte was not really genuine for some folks. It was apparently actually okay for him to use a bit of violence for things he believes in.
It is almost as if being asked a question and having your life ended were different things. Clearly being asked about deaths your actions will cause is totally morally equivalent to being worried about said deaths.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:56 AM   #315
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
So you organize and try to vote him out of power.

Calling him names or encouraging violence isn't going to get anything done, except probably help him to raise money and get his voters to turn out.
I don't live in his district. And it would be pointless anyway. The people that live there don't care about him being a vile piece of trash or vote for him for that reason.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:56 AM   #316
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Internet Tough Guy is unattractive no matter what your political persuasion. Some of us would benefit greatly from stepping away from the computer for a few days. If you can't wish peace and well-wishes on your political enemies on a day like today, then you need a little down time or re-education or something. A buddhist retreat wouldn't kill you either.
It could help you learn to purge the muslims though. Or was it not supposed to be in Myanmar?
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:58 AM   #317
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
I didn't say "pretending." Actually caring. Loving him, even.
And love his victims too, but doing anything to prevent their deaths is wrong.
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Old 14th June 2017, 11:58 AM   #318
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I blame
1 Trump
2 America

deadly combination
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2 Democrats fix public spending to normal...8 years

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Old 14th June 2017, 11:59 AM   #319
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Then all the resistance groups are wrong and we should view Mandela as the terrorist he was. Hell we are a nation founded by terrorists.
Well, it's not 1750 anymore. The world isn't what it used to be.

I have no problem with violence being met by violence.

I don't always have a problem with violent political resistance, either. See Venezuela.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 14th June 2017, 12:00 PM   #320
LTC8K6
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Scalise is in critical condition.

Happy news for some.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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