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Tags Liberalism , patriotism

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Old 16th June 2017, 01:19 PM   #41
TragicMonkey
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Originally Posted by mumblethrax View Post
My favorite moment from the Kaepernick controversy was reading someone who said "People died for our national anthem!"
I knew it was notoriously difficult to sing, but I hadn't realized there was an actual death toll from the attempt.
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Old 16th June 2017, 01:24 PM   #42
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Re Colin Kapernick: He has a right to protest, but no right to be immune from negative consequences from the method he used to protest.
He had probably a valid point, but his method of making it was stupid. It ended up alienating people instead of making them listen to him. The longer I live, the more I relize that that old statement "It is not what you say, but how you say it, that makes or breaks a case" is 100% the truth.
Frankly, this is another area that a lot of activist just don't get. :they don't get the purpose of a protest.It should not be aimed on people who already agree with you, but with people who don't or don't care about an issue. You need to reach them,not do some action that gets you fellow activist excited but turns other people off.
Otherwise it is a useless circle jerk that makes you feel good but accomplishes nothing.

As for blackballed from his profession. If Colin Kaepernick had a good record as a QB over the past few seasons, he would have been signed by now. People forget that the Niners were basically trying to trade him..without success...at the time Kaepernick took the knee. I am sure that is major factor why Colin is not signed up. You have a medicore at best QB with a ton of issues;no wonder teams are not falling over themselves to trade him.
I don't disagree with any of that. It is simply strategic discourse. As someone who has spent his life in sales, I absolutely comprehend that how you sell can be as important as what you are selling. This is why for example I sent messages to Tony Stark about calling Republicans human trash. Everything of value gets lost in the delivery. I would never burn a flag, but I absolutely believe my fellow citizens have and never should be denied that right.

It just seems rather phoney to me to wave the flag proclaiming the virtues of America while at the same time contradicting those virtues. This is why I have a love hate relationship with the flag. Patriotism seems disingenuous. Nothing more than waving a number 12 flag in Seattle shouting hooray for our Seahawks. Loving America to me means being open to argument and dissent. Jerry Fallwell, Bill O'Reilly, and Rush Limbaugh make my blood boil, but they should not be denied their right to speak.
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Old 16th June 2017, 01:53 PM   #43
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I think to many of us not American simply the patriotism baffles us......
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Old 16th June 2017, 02:11 PM   #44
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Let's play a different game. I'm going to call out all the political weasel words and guess at real meanings instead.
  1. The U.S. Constitution
  2. Liberty
  3. Freedom
  4. Success
  5. Big Trucks - Roll coal, prius repellent!
  6. Capitalism - The wealth will trickle down, any minute now!
  7. Free Markets - any minute now
  8. Wealthy People - any minute now
  9. Economic Prosperity - any minute...
  10. The Rule of Law - pick up that can citizen
  11. Traditional Values - like racism and slavery
  12. The American Flag
  13. The Founding Fathers - or more precisely, the words we put in their mouths
  14. Guns - guns dont kill people, people not having guns kills...wait...
  15. Limited Government - only the parts where i tell you what to do
  16. Religious Freedom - you're free to believe in my religion
  17. Homeschooling - to teach your kids my religion
  18. Private Schools - see above
  19. Christian Schools - see above
  20. Entrepreneurs
  21. Ronald Reagan - all hail St. Reagan and the words we put in his mouth
  22. Donald Trump - Long live The King
  23. Mike Pence - And his Court
  24. Country Music
  25. Rush Limbaugh - And The Court Jester
  26. The Tea Party
  27. Lower Taxes - Trickling down - ANY MINUTE NOW!!!
  28. Old-Fashioned Light Bulbs - this has been covered
  29. Jesus - still free to believe in my religion!
  30. The Bible - see above
  31. The Christian Faith - see above
  32. The Drudge Report - The Court Herald
  33. John Wayne
  34. Alex Jones
  35. NASCAR
  36. Tupperware
  37. Big Cheeseburgers
  38. Football
  39. Clint Eastwood
  40. The Army
  41. The Navy
  42. The Marines
  43. The Air Force
  44. Ron Paul
  45. Rand Paul
  46. Marriage - If you don't want to kill all gays you're evil
  47. Family - see above
  48. Babies - see above
  49. Wal-Mart
  50. Flag Pins
  51. Steakhouses - what? is this a muslims reference?
  52. Chuck Norris
  53. Bottled Water
  54. George Washington
  55. The 1st Amendment
  56. The 2nd Amendment - MOAR GUNZ!
  57. The 10th Amendment
  58. The Pledge of Allegiance - like praying on the streetcorner but for patriots
  59. McDonald’s - patriotism is demonstrated by eating fast food, apparently
  60. Coca-Cola - see above
  61. Fried Food - see above
  62. Muscle Cars
  63. Charlie Daniels
  64. Dolly Parton
  65. Duck Dynasty
  66. Johnny Cash
  67. Sarah Palin - 5 more minutes!
  68. Cheesesteaks - more patriotic food i guess
  69. Sean Hannity - another court jester
  70. Rodeos
  71. Cadillacs
  72. Barbie Dolls
  73. Ted Cruz
  74. Fiscal Sanity - still waiting for that trickle down
  75. Charlton Heston
  76. Israel - hating muslims, the only real foreign policy
  77. Benjamin Netanyahu - see above
  78. Miners - patriotic manly jobs
  79. Loggers - see above
  80. The Coal Industry -see above
  81. National Sovereignty - international relations via loud yelling and random actions = best policy
  82. National Borders -see above
  83. Uncle Sam - blind patriotism, never question it
  84. The Washington Redskins - i guess you cant be a fan of other teams?
  85. Small Businesses
  86. Self-Employment
  87. Harley-Davidson Motorcycles
  88. Military Veterans
  89. The Phrase “Islamic Terror” - hating muslims, the only real foreign policy
  90. Big Families
  91. The Bible Belt - free to follow my religion
  92. The Creation Museum - free to follow my religion
  93. The 10 Commandments - free to follow my religion
  94. Anyone That Is Pro-Life - free to follow my religion
  95. Anyone Who Disagrees With Them - unable to have a rational discussion?
  96. Hard Work
  97. Patriotism
  98. Winning
  99. The Truth
  100. The American People
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Old 16th June 2017, 02:13 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
I'm a liberal. I admit it. Heck I'm proud of it. In fact those online poll things often say I'm actually a socialist...and Dean from Supernatural. Which is so bogus since I'm clearly Sam!

So of course when I see that far right wing blog Charismanews has posted a list of all the things I hate about America...well I can't but help read it. Surely it will be refreshing to see all the things I hate spelled out in list form.

Well I was sure in for a surprise. Turns out I hate things like "success" and "cheeseburgers" which I could have sworn I liked. In fact it turns out I hate "The American People" as a whole which surely also I was unaware of.

Actually here it is and I color coded it. Bold for things I actually like, highlights for things I think are largely good but with some need for fixing and a strike through for the things I actually hate. I hope the mods will allow this since I'm commenting on the whole of the thing.

[list=1]...
You neglected to cross off John Wayne.

Please watch this and correct your omission.
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Old 16th June 2017, 02:24 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
By the way I'm a bit confused about the inclusion of Israel and Netanyhu.

PC 101: Israel is an Apartheid state.
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Old 16th June 2017, 02:34 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by jt512 View Post
PC 101: Israel is an Apartheid state.
Yea, but what does it have to do with hating America?
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Old 16th June 2017, 03:35 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Re Colin Kapernick: He has a right to protest, but no right to be immune from negative consequences from the method he used to protest.
He had probably a valid point, but his method of making it was stupid. It ended up alienating people instead of making them listen to him. The longer I live, the more I relize that that old statement "It is not what you say, but how you say it, that makes or breaks a case" is 100% the truth.
Frankly, this is another area that a lot of activist just don't get. :they don't get the purpose of a protest.It should not be aimed on people who already agree with you, but with people who don't or don't care about an issue. You need to reach them,not do some action that gets you fellow activist excited but turns other people off.
Otherwise it is a useless circle jerk that makes you feel good but accomplishes nothing.

As for blackballed from his profession. If Colin Kaepernick had a good record as a QB over the past few seasons, he would have been signed by now. People forget that the Niners were basically trying to trade him..without success...at the time Kaepernick took the knee. I am sure that is major factor why Colin is not signed up. You have a medicore at best QB with a ton of issues;no wonder teams are not falling over themselves to trade him.
Respectively I disagree with almost everything you just said. I do believe Kaepernick is a good QB that was put in some bad situations the past two seasons. And I do believe him not being signed is 100% about his politics.

But lets entertain your premise. How do you think Kaepernick should have protested so that he could get Americans that now hate him to agree with him that cops shouldn't be allowed to murder people?
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Old 16th June 2017, 03:39 PM   #49
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Thanks oopsboom. I think another interesting exercise would be to use the list to actually try and create the sort of liberal they think exists. Someone that hates free markets, babies, steaks and freedom. Just for starts.
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Old 16th June 2017, 04:37 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
<snip>
But what could be more American than a nonviolent protest?
Violent protest--taking a gun and shooting up a school or a workplace.
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Old 16th June 2017, 04:40 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
Violent protest--taking a gun and shooting up a school or a workplace a black person.
FTFY and doubly so if you're a police officer.
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Old 16th June 2017, 05:44 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
Violent protest--taking a gun and shooting up a school or a workplace.
Even better, shooting up a baseball diamond. It's got everything: America's favorite pastime, and also baseball.
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Old 16th June 2017, 07:41 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Yea, but what does it have to do with hating America?
Same as everything else on the Liberty University blog. "I'm for it, so liberals must be against it." He supports Israel and Netanyahu, so I must not, cuz I'm a liberal.

He listed his frickin food choices, fer crissake! And not just the choice, but in one case, the size.... "big cheeseburgers". Is that insinuating that us pinkos like small cheeseburgers?

I'm surprised he didn't list "milkshakes" or "sex". Hey, I like it, so libruls gonna hate it.
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Old 16th June 2017, 08:10 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
He listed his frickin food choices, fer crissake! And not just the choice, but in one case, the size.... "big cheeseburgers". Is that insinuating that us pinkos like small cheeseburgers?

I think it's meant to insinuate that liberals hate oversized food portions. Apparently, gluttony is a conservative virtue.
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Old 16th June 2017, 08:21 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Same as everything else on the Liberty University blog. "I'm for it, so liberals must be against it." He supports Israel and Netanyahu, so I must not, cuz I'm a liberal.

He listed his frickin food choices, fer crissake! And not just the choice, but in one case, the size.... "big cheeseburgers". Is that insinuating that us pinkos like small cheeseburgers?

I'm surprised he didn't list "milkshakes" or "sex". Hey, I like it, so libruls gonna hate it.
I always have mixed feelings about Israel and none about that trash religious university. I don't mind Christianity so long as it isn't practiced. Liberty University likes Israel because they are trying to bring about the end of the world.
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Old 17th June 2017, 05:54 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
I think it's meant to insinuate that liberals hate oversized food portions. Apparently, gluttony is a conservative virtue.
Also, meat. Because liberals are also all level 5 vegans who won't eat anything that can cast a shadow.
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Old 17th June 2017, 06:02 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Also, meat. Because liberals are also all level 5 vegans who won't eat anything that can cast a shadow.
Love it.


But I would bet more vegans are liberals than conservatives.
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Old 17th June 2017, 07:01 AM   #58
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Obviously when 60 million vote Democrat it isn't representative. But I think it does capture the Zeitgeist of a certain college age, white liberal activist. It reminds me a bit of "stuff white people like" without the humor.
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Old 17th June 2017, 07:22 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Same as everything else on the Liberty University blog. "I'm for it, so liberals must be against it." He supports Israel and Netanyahu, so I must not, cuz I'm a liberal.

He listed his frickin food choices, fer crissake! And not just the choice, but in one case, the size.... "big cheeseburgers". Is that insinuating that us pinkos like small cheeseburgers?

I'm surprised he didn't list "milkshakes" or "sex". Hey, I like it, so libruls gonna hate it.
Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
I think it's meant to insinuate that liberals hate oversized food portions. Apparently, gluttony is a conservative virtue.
And of course, cheeseburgers are equivalent to seething a kid in its mother's milk, and therefore just as prohibited by the Bible as a man lying with a man as with a woman.
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Old 17th June 2017, 07:52 AM   #60
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Breaking News!
Liberals are using ticks to turn people into vegetarians!
https://www.wired.com/story/lone-sta...-be-spreading/
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Old 17th June 2017, 07:56 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Why do you actually hate the American flag, limited government and home schooling?

The flag is just a flag; is it possible you actually mean those people who wrap themselves ion the flag and burn the constitution?

So when you hate limited government, does this mean you want more government?

What do you have against homeschooling?

Ranb

IIRC, the Supreme Court strike against laws forbidding home schooling were a kick in the butt of the Republicans, who wanted to outlaw people from teaching their own kids German during WWI.

Now the Republicans have adopted it and the left doesn't like what gets taught, or maybe the Republicans want to gut the teachers' unions, who largely vote Democratic, which is why the Democrats want to preserve public education, and neither side really cares about children, though both mouth that they do as the rationale for their position.


There are other rulings, but this one is about the government forbidding knowledge the parents want to teach.
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Old 17th June 2017, 08:03 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Breaking News!
Liberals are using ticks to turn people into vegetarians!
https://www.wired.com/story/lone-sta...-be-spreading/

Alpha Gal
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The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales now! More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?
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Old 17th June 2017, 10:28 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
I'm surprised he didn't list "milkshakes" or "sex". Hey, I like it, so libruls gonna hate it.
No no no.

Sex is not supposed to be fun, according to Liberty University. It's an obligation, the marital sex, missionary position type. Other types of sex are sin. It's those damn evil libruls who like sex, all kinds of deviant sex, like gay sex or donkey sex.
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Old 17th June 2017, 11:52 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post

Sex is not supposed to be fun, according to Liberty University.
I must be doing it wrong!
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Old 17th June 2017, 12:32 PM   #65
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Johnny Cash is just a weird one considering some of his best work was with Rick Rubin. Liking Johnny Cash is probably super liberal.
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Old 17th June 2017, 12:34 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Take for example Colin Kapernick's not standing for the American anthem. Some people saw this as a sign of great disrespect for America. And now he is being blackballed from his profession.

But what could be more American than a nonviolent protest? Whether you agree or disagree with his grievances, shouldn't he have the right to stand up or in this case kneel for what he believesn? What does a piece of cloth matter compared to the basic principles that this great nation was founded?
Sigh. For the umpteenth time, yes, Kaepernick had a right to protest, and as far as I know, nobody has suggested throwing him in jail, which is essentially all that right guarantees. He does not have a right to protest free of consequences from potential employers.

And while I note that many sportswriters seem to assume that Kaepernick has been blackballed, none of them know what type of deal Kaepernick wants. Yes, there was an outcry from the media sob-sisters when the 49ers signed Blaine Gabbert, who is pretty clearly a worse quarterback. But what we don't know is whether Kaepernick would have signed the same deal (I doubt it).
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Old 17th June 2017, 12:38 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
But lets entertain your premise. How do you think Kaepernick should have protested so that he could get Americans that now hate him to agree with him that cops shouldn't be allowed to murder people?
Gee, I agree with him already on that point. See how easy that was?
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Old 17th June 2017, 12:41 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
I'm a liberal. I admit it. Heck I'm proud of it. In fact those online poll things often say I'm actually a socialist...and Dean from Supernatural. Which is so bogus since I'm clearly Sam!

So of course when I see that far right wing blog Charismanews has posted a list of all the things I hate about America...well I can't but help read it. Surely it will be refreshing to see all the things I hate spelled out in list form.

Well I was sure in for a surprise. Turns out I hate things like "success" and "cheeseburgers" which I could have sworn I liked. In fact it turns out I hate "The American People" as a whole which surely also I was unaware of.

Actually here it is and I color coded it. Bold for things I actually like, highlights for things I think are largely good but with some need for fixing and a strike through for the things I actually hate. I hope the mods will allow this since I'm commenting on the whole of the thing.

  1. The U.S. Constitution
  2. Liberty
  3. Freedom
  4. Success
  5. Big Trucks
  6. Capitalism
  7. Free Markets
  8. Wealthy People
  9. Economic Prosperity
  10. The Rule of Law
  11. Traditional Values
  12. The American Flag
  13. The Founding Fathers
  14. Guns
  15. Limited Government
  16. Religious Freedom
  17. Homeschooling
  18. Private Schools
  19. Christian Schools
  20. Entrepreneurs
  21. Ronald Reagan
  22. Donald Trump
  23. Mike Pence
  24. Country Music
  25. Rush Limbaugh
  26. The Tea Party
  27. Lower Taxes
  28. Old-Fashioned Light Bulbs
  29. Jesus
  30. The Bible
  31. The Christian Faith
  32. The Drudge Report
  33. John Wayne
  34. Alex Jones
  35. NASCAR
  36. Tupperware
  37. Big Cheeseburgers
  38. Football
  39. Clint Eastwood
  40. The Army
  41. The Navy
  42. The Marines
  43. The Air Force
  44. Ron Paul
  45. Rand Paul
  46. Marriage
  47. Family
  48. Babies
  49. Wal-Mart
  50. Flag Pins
  51. Steakhouses
  52. Chuck Norris
  53. Bottled Water
  54. George Washington
  55. The 1st Amendment
  56. The 2nd Amendment
  57. The 10th Amendment
  58. The Pledge of Allegiance
  59. McDonald’s
  60. Coca-Cola
  61. Fried Food
  62. Muscle Cars
  63. Charlie Daniels
  64. Dolly Parton
  65. Duck Dynasty
  66. Johnny Cash
  67. Sarah Palin
  68. Cheesesteaks
  69. Sean Hannity
  70. Rodeos
  71. Cadillacs
  72. Barbie Dolls
  73. Ted Cruz
  74. Fiscal Sanity
  75. Charlton Heston
  76. Israel
  77. Benjamin Netanyahu
  78. Miners
  79. Loggers
  80. The Coal Industry
  81. National Sovereignty
  82. National Borders
  83. Uncle Sam
  84. The Washington Redskins
  85. Small Businesses
  86. Self-Employment
  87. Harley-Davidson Motorcycles
  88. Military Veterans
  89. The Phrase “Islamic Terror”
  90. Big Families
  91. The Bible Belt
  92. The Creation Museum
  93. The 10 Commandments
  94. Anyone That Is Pro-Life
  95. Anyone Who Disagrees With Them
  96. Hard Work
  97. Patriotism
  98. Winning
  99. The Truth
  100. The American People


By the way I'm a bit confused about the inclusion of Israel and Netanyhu.


Fellow liberals, how did the list reflect your hatreds?
You ticked off 28 of the items on the list, and want to congratulate yourself for not picking the other 72? I would only check one of the 100 items (Alex Jones of course).
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Old 17th June 2017, 12:51 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Sigh. For the umpteenth time, yes, Kaepernick had a right to protest, and as far as I know, nobody has suggested throwing him in jail, which is essentially all that right guarantees. He does not have a right to protest free of consequences from potential employers.

And while I note that many sportswriters seem to assume that Kaepernick has been blackballed, none of them know what type of deal Kaepernick wants. Yes, there was an outcry from the media sob-sisters when the 49ers signed Blaine Gabbert, who is pretty clearly a worse quarterback. But what we don't know is whether Kaepernick would have signed the same deal (I doubt it).
I never said that his protest should be illegal or that the right protects one from all consequences. The point though is that patriotism rings awful hollow when we don't respect the freedom to protest non-violently. Don't wave that flag around me when you don't honor such a core principle. It tells me that the flag is just a prop.

Don't tell me there aren't teams out there that wouldn't make a deal for Kap.
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Old 17th June 2017, 12:59 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Johnny Cash is just a weird one considering some of his best work was with Rick Rubin. Liking Johnny Cash is probably super liberal.
I don't know if it's liberal but I sure as hell like him. I can live without the religion but he has never been one to be holier than thou and cram it down anyone's throats.
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Old 17th June 2017, 01:01 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I never said that his protest should be illegal or that the right protects one from all consequences. The point though is that patriotism rings awful hollow when we don't respect the freedom to protest non-violently. Don't wave that flag around me when you don't honor such a core principle. It tells me that the flag is just a prop.

Don't tell me there aren't teams out there that wouldn't make a deal for Kap.
We need term for this. Belief in substantive freedom of speech?
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Old 17th June 2017, 01:23 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
We need term for this. Belief in substantive freedom of speech?
Do you mean a term like a word? I've seen this before: full speaking
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Old 17th June 2017, 01:35 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
I'm a liberal. I admit it. Heck I'm proud of it. In fact those online poll things often say I'm actually a socialist...and Dean from Supernatural. Which is so bogus since I'm clearly Sam!

[...]

May you expire in peaceful silence, and with no accolades.
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Old 17th June 2017, 01:39 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
... This open contempt for patriotism is one reason the left keeps losing the swing vote in elections..and that is ahigh price to pay for feeling superior to all those flag loving Blue Collar Proles..
Is that a factor in US elections, open contempt for patriotism? Who in recent elections has run for office supported by people openly disdainful?

Reason I ask is, don't know if this is a claim that Dem policies are unpatriotic.
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Old 17th June 2017, 01:51 PM   #75
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By the way, number 10 on the list, the rule of law, to most Republicans and most certainly to the person compiling the list, is meant to refer to law and order. The rule of law goes swooshing way, way over their little theocratic bobbing noggins.
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Old 17th June 2017, 02:10 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I never said that his protest should be illegal or that the right protects one from all consequences. The point though is that patriotism rings awful hollow when we don't respect the freedom to protest non-violently. Don't wave that flag around me when you don't honor such a core principle. It tells me that the flag is just a prop.
There is no core principle that says you can protest non-violently without any consequences. The core principle is that you can protest non-violently without any legal consequences.

Quote:
Don't tell me there aren't teams out there that wouldn't make a deal for Kap.
I will take your word for it then.
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Old 17th June 2017, 02:18 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
Is that a factor in US elections, open contempt for patriotism? Who in recent elections has run for office supported by people openly disdainful?

Reason I ask is, don't know if this is a claim that Dem policies are unpatriotic.
I don't think so. But the Republicans have a real tendency to really wrap themselves in the flag. It's like if they wrap themselves in that red white and blue they can get away with anything.

Notice that pretty much every single Republican politician wouldn't be caught dead without their flag pin. It is so overused it is meaningless.

Let's be honest about this. The flag is used to promote every military excursion. So what do you do if you oppose it? It's a difficult situation. Does that make you less patriotic? Are you really less American if you don't want to go out and napalm anyone who opposes US policy abroad?
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Old 17th June 2017, 02:29 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
There is no core principle that says you can protest non-violently without any consequences. The core principle is that you can protest non-violently without any legal consequences.
I guess we see things differently. Freedom of speech, particularly when it involves political speech is sacred to me. That an employer should be able through financial coercion limit the speech of their employees is antithetical to that right.
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Old 17th June 2017, 02:39 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Yea, but what does it have to do with hating America?
The US government supports Israel.
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Old 17th June 2017, 02:56 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
That an employer should be able through financial coercion limit the speech of their employees is antithetical to that right.
Even at work?
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