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Old 16th June 2017, 03:00 PM   #1
Childlike Empress
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US Navy Destroyer Crashes Into Merchant Ship Off the Japanese Coast

https://sputniknews.com/news/2017061...er-ship-japan/

Originally Posted by Sputnik
US Navy ship [USS Fitzgerald] collided with a trade vessel [Phillipine ACX Crystal] in the early morning hours on June 17. The number of injured sailors has yet to be determined, according to the US Pacific Fleet Commander. [...] Following the incident, US sailors had to call for help from the Japanese coast guard. Japanese tug boats are en route to assist and are currently pulling the ship to safety, as she could not carry on under her own power, a US Defense Department official said. In the video, however, it appears the Fitzgerald is moving along, perhaps more slowly than usual. [...] The collision occurred about 56 nautical miles southwest of Yokosuka, Japan.

Can you please pay attention to the fact that there's an outside world, Yankistanis?
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Old 16th June 2017, 03:07 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
https://sputniknews.com/news/2017061...er-ship-japan/

Can you please pay attention to the fact that there's an outside world, Yankistanis?
Just as soon as Japanese tourists learn which side of the road to drive on:

http://archives.smdailyjournal.com/a...w.php?id=46035

Probation imposed in motorcycle death

The 31-year-old college student who killed a Half Moon Bay motorcyclist a year ago by driving on the wrong side of Skyline Boulevard was sentenced yesterday to five years of supervised probation on one count of felony vehicular manslaughter.

Kazuhiro Ishii, of Japan, switched his plea April 14, just days shy of his scheduled jury trial and just past the one-year anniversary of his arrest last year. As part of his plea, Ishii also admitted that the charge is a serious felony. In return, Ishii was promised no state prison and a consideration of probation. He faced up to six years in prison if convicted by a jury.

On April 3, Ishii, then a 30-year-old student at the University of California at Berkeley, was driving a rented Ford Focus along Skyline Boulevard. His car was traveling on the wrong lane as he maneuvered around the curvy State Route 35 road, striking Henry Charles Frisbie. Frisbie was thrown from his motorcycle and died at the scene near Portola Valley.

Ishii was driving with an international driver's license, which is not considered valid in California.

Ishii has been free from custody on $150,000 cash bail.
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Old 16th June 2017, 03:09 PM   #3
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Is it my imagination, or have there been a surprising number of ****ups in the USN over the past 10 years or so?
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Old 16th June 2017, 03:20 PM   #4
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I suspect that the skipper of the destroyer's career is effectively over. Even if he avoids a court martial,a major accident on your watch on a command level is fatal. He will be passed over next promotion,and that is pretty much it for your career.
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Old 16th June 2017, 04:12 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Just as soon as Japanese tourists learn which side of the road to drive on:

We'll do that when you learn to use the correct system or measurements.
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Old 16th June 2017, 04:37 PM   #6
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Do we actually know who was at fault?

I would imagine a modern vessel like this would have sensors for avoiding collisions, but that's just a guess. Maybe they both do.

The two articles I've read don't explain how it happened. I can fully accept that it's the fault of the destroyer, but I'd like to know for sure before I join in the USA bashing.

Does anyone have further information?
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Old 16th June 2017, 04:53 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
Is it my imagination, or have there been a surprising number of ****ups in the USN over the past 10 years or so?
Probably your imagination. What else would it be?
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Old 16th June 2017, 05:03 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Do we actually know who was at fault?

I would imagine a modern vessel like this would have sensors for avoiding collisions, but that's just a guess. Maybe they both do.

The two articles I've read don't explain how it happened. I can fully accept that it's the fault of the destroyer, but I'd like to know for sure before I join in the USA bashing.

Does anyone have further information?
Uh, there have been sensors for avoiding collisions like this for along time. They are called "Human Eyeball Mark One".
When you are manuevring something as big as a destroyer, no amount of sensors will help if Human Error happens. And that is what happened, though exactly whose error remains to be seen.
But, guaranteed, the career of the Commander on Watch is probably over. Even if it not his fault for to have happned on his watch (where do you think that expression came from) it will be a black mark on his career, and for accidents like this the Navy is very unforgiving.
The reasoning will be even if it was primarily the Freighter's fault, the Officer in charge on the Fitzgerald should have been able to still avoid the collision by maneuvering and failed to do so. That would be a big black mark on his record, even if unofficial.
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Old 16th June 2017, 05:15 PM   #9
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How long until Trump blames the collsion in the Pacific involving a US destroyer on Obama?
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Old 16th June 2017, 05:24 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Do we actually know who was at fault?

I would imagine a modern vessel like this would have sensors for avoiding collisions, but that's just a guess. Maybe they both do.

The two articles I've read don't explain how it happened. I can fully accept that it's the fault of the destroyer, but I'd like to know for sure before I join in the USA bashing.

Does anyone have further information?
Photos I've seen of the destroyer show damage starboard-side squarely amidships. So unless the destroyer was doing the Electric Slide as it was cruising along I think it's highly likely the other ship was at fault.

ETA:

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Old 16th June 2017, 05:33 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Photos I've seen of the destroyer show damage starboard-side squarely amidships. So unless the destroyer was doing the Electric Slide as it was cruising along I think it's highly likely the other ship was at fault.
It's just a bit of a bump. Plunger to straighten the metal, lick of paint, good as new!
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Old 16th June 2017, 05:38 PM   #12
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Slide hammer and some Bondo, fix that right up. The rest'll buff right out.
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Old 16th June 2017, 05:40 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
I would imagine a modern vessel like this would have sensors for avoiding collisions, but that's just a guess. Maybe they both do.
Oh, I'm sure they do. But these things have a really huge amount of mass, and very little to push against. When something ends up in your path, it's not always easy to avoid hitting it. You basically have to plan an hour ahead.
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Old 16th June 2017, 05:41 PM   #14
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Old 16th June 2017, 05:47 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Oh, I'm sure they do. But these things have a really huge amount of mass, and very little to push against. When something ends up in your path, it's not always easy to avoid hitting it. You basically have to plan an hour ahead.
The merchant ship failed to do what you say it needed to do.
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Old 16th June 2017, 05:49 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Slide hammer and some Bondo, fix that right up. The rest'll buff right out.
Pffff. Couple rolls of duct tape will take care of it.
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Old 16th June 2017, 05:55 PM   #17
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Last month a South Korean fishing boat smashed into a US Navy Cruiser called Lake Champlain in the Sea of Japan.

https://www.navytimes.com/articles/l...e-sea-of-japan
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Old 16th June 2017, 05:57 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
Pffff. Couple rolls of duct tape will take care of it.
You may be onto something, as the ship is literally the color of duct tape already.
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Old 16th June 2017, 05:58 PM   #19
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Gosh, it's almost like things collide with other things occasionally. What is the world coming to?
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Old 16th June 2017, 06:13 PM   #20
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They were like two ships not passing in the night.
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Old 16th June 2017, 06:14 PM   #21
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Seven US sailors are missing. No details in any of the marine casualty sites I sometimes hang out at, but they're slow to report because they're more concerned with casualty/insurance/claims and not sound bytes.
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Old 16th June 2017, 06:20 PM   #22
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I think the unwritten law of the sea is that the small ship avoids the big ship. Apparently the container ship has very little damage. A destroyer in comparison to a container ship is like a greyhound.

There was a bad accident in Australia where an aircraft carrier cut a destroyer in half. This crew was lucky in comparison.
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Old 16th June 2017, 06:20 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Photos I've seen of the destroyer show damage starboard-side squarely amidships. So unless the destroyer was doing the Electric Slide as it was cruising along I think it's highly likely the other ship was at fault.
...
No no no, not how it works. Going just by the location of the damage, barring all kinds of other circumstances, the larger cargo ship being less easily maneuvered probably had the right of way and the destroyer moved in front of it. The cargo ship would have had no chance to avoid the destroyer.

Fog, lack of working radar, it was night when it happened.


Sadly it's being reported there may be 7 missing sailors.
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Old 16th June 2017, 06:22 PM   #24
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All a cover story. It was actually hit by a Nork missile. But the USN does not want to admit that they might be hittable targets.
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Old 16th June 2017, 06:23 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Seven US sailors are missing. No details in any of the marine casualty sites I sometimes hang out at, but they're slow to report because they're more concerned with casualty/insurance/claims and not sound bytes.
I find it fascinating that Sputnik News and RT both had the story before CNN.

The missing sailors sounds awful given it's been hours and they've yet to find them.
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Old 16th June 2017, 06:28 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
I think the unwritten law of the sea is that the small ship avoids the big ship. Apparently the container ship has very little damage. A destroyer in comparison to a container ship is like a greyhound.

There was a bad accident in Australia where an aircraft carrier cut a destroyer in half. This crew was lucky in comparison.
Looking at them side by side, the cargo ship was 3 times the size of the destroyer. (A good guess on my part )

In naval terminology, a destroyer is a fast, maneuverable long-endurance warship intended to escort larger vessels in a fleet, convoy or battle group...

The 7th fleet said the collision was with the Philippine-flagged merchant vessel ACX Crystal. At around 29,000 tons displacement it is about three times the size of the U.S. warship.
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Old 16th June 2017, 06:31 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
How long until Trump blames the collsion in the Pacific involving a US destroyer on Obama?
I can't help wondering how the hell that happened. My guess is that captain's military career is over.
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Old 16th June 2017, 06:31 PM   #28
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I'm not sure I would give credence to missing sailor stories. USN ships wouldn't leave the area if they can still maneuver to search for the lost. Lost overboard is every sailors night mare, they don't easily abandon searches for their mates.
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Old 16th June 2017, 06:33 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
I'm not sure I would give credence to missing sailor stories. USN ships wouldn't leave the area if they can still maneuver to search for the lost.
There are other US ships in the area now that may explain it.
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Old 16th June 2017, 06:47 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
There are other US ships in the area now that may explain it.
It's also not a deep sea isolated location. They're in one of the busiest traffic lanes in the world, in Tokyo Bay, approaching Yokohama/Tokyo ports.

The USN generally doesn't send out solo destroyers (military geeks can correct me); I'm pretty sure there would be/have been other USN vessels nearby. Notwithstanding all of that, they're sending (probably there already) an actual rescue vessel and helicopter carrier. With the Fitzgerald taking water and the commander injured, I don't see them trying to maneuver in a congested bay to search.
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Old 16th June 2017, 07:35 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Seven US sailors are missing.
How could they be alive?
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Old 16th June 2017, 07:45 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
How could they be alive?
It's water, not sulfuric acid. While there's a chance that they're deceased, swimmers are pulled out of the water after marine casualties all the time. Again... this ain't seven hundred miles offshore in a raging typhoon. It's Tokyo Bay. Not a backyard pond, but also not the Straits of Magellan.
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Old 16th June 2017, 07:48 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
I'm not sure I would give credence to missing sailor stories. USN ships wouldn't leave the area if they can still maneuver to search for the lost. Lost overboard is every sailors night mare, they don't easily abandon searches for their mates.
They have leaks below the water line and compartments closed. I would guess the sailors are in there unfortunately.
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Old 16th June 2017, 07:50 PM   #34
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It's been more than 8 hours. They don't have flotation gear. Likely to have been injured before going overboard because of the massive collision.

What are the odds of finding any treading water?
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Old 16th June 2017, 07:58 PM   #35
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Would anyone be on deck at 2:30am? I don't know what goes on with Navy ships.
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Old 16th June 2017, 08:57 PM   #36
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We don't know. There are no reports as whether they went overboard or are stuck in flooded compartments or under some rubble. They said that they were sending a helicopter search vessel, so that sounds like they think they went in the water, but that could just be SOP. We don't know. Missing is missing. We'll learn more as they release it.

ETA: The chopper is evidently from the Japanese Coast Guard - being used for evacuation, not search, as the ship is listing but said to be in no danger of sinking. I'm not sure if that's additional to the US choppers, or if the earlier report was incorrect.
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Old 16th June 2017, 09:08 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
No no no, not how it works. Going just by the location of the damage, barring all kinds of other circumstances, the larger cargo ship being less easily maneuvered probably had the right of way and the destroyer moved in front of it. The cargo ship would have had no chance to avoid the destroyer.
I think you're wrong about that. International regs do give difference to a "vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver", but whether a vessel has that status is determined by its current activity (e.g., towing, laying cable, launching or recovering aircraft, and so forth) rather than its size or tonnage.
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Old 16th June 2017, 09:24 PM   #38
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I think you're wrong about that. International regs do give difference to a "vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver", but whether a vessel has that status is determined by its current activity (e.g., towing, laying cable, launching or recovering aircraft, and so forth) rather than its size or tonnage.
Not saying there can't be exceptional circumstances, but you did not address the law of the sea, you can't cross the path of a vessel that has no hope of avoiding colliding with you.
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Old 16th June 2017, 10:22 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I think you're wrong about that. International regs do give difference to a "vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver", but whether a vessel has that status is determined by its current activity (e.g., towing, laying cable, launching or recovering aircraft, and so forth) rather than its size or tonnage.
But none of that would've applied here. They were both under power. The "Crystal" can only do about 30 knots and was underway at 16 or 17. The "Fitzgerald" (speed not known) can do almost double that speed, but more importantly can maneuver far more easily. She has four x 25,000 hp engines, is much smaller and has a far smaller turn radius. 16/17 is almost the top cruising speed of the "ACX Crystal". The bridge of the Fitzgerald should've recognized that that meant a far longer time to slow down and larger turn radius. I'll be curious to hear the bridge communications. Did they think the Crystal was going to slow or turn towards them? That would've put them well out of her path because of their speed. Did they leave it for too late and decide to try to speed up and cross in front? Bad move, that!

I'm truly just thinking out loud, here. The vessel tracking looks weird. The "Crystal" seems to have been gaining speed up to about 18 knots at the time of the incident, slowed to 3 knots over a couple of hours and then almost immediately ratcheted it back up to 19 ("almost immediately" meaning a couple of hours), and then back to 3. They may have stopped when the collision occurred and then been ordered out of the area to a safer distance, and then slowed again to a crawl.
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Old 16th June 2017, 10:33 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Just as soon as Japanese tourists learn which side of the road to drive on:

http://archives.smdailyjournal.com/a...w.php?id=46035

[b][i]Probation imposed in motorcycle death

The 31-year-old college student who killed a Half Moon Bay motorcyclist a year ago by driving on the wrong side of Skyline Boulevard was sentenced yesterday to five years of supervised probation on one count of felony vehicular manslaughter.

Kazuhiro Ishii, of Japan, switched his plea April 14, just days shy of his scheduled jury trial and just past the one-year anniversary of his arrest last year. As part of his plea, Ishii also admitted that the charge is a serious felony. In return, Ishii was promised no state prison and a consideration of probation. He faced up to six years in prison if convicted by a jury.

On April 3, Ishii, then a 30-year-old student at the University of California at Berkeley, was driving a rented Ford Focus along Skyline Boulevard. His car was traveling on the wrong lane as he maneuvered around the curvy State Route 35 road, striking Henry Charles Frisbie. Frisbie was thrown from his motorcycle and died at the scene near Portola Valley.
Sounds more like taking the corners too tight, possibly by both parties.

Quote:
Ishii was driving with an international driver's license, which is not considered valid in California.
That seems to be misleading, as it appears that California recognises other states/countries licences "directly," although as a resident student Ishii should have applied for a California licence.
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