Cloning a woolly mammoth - Page 2

William Parcher · 19th February 2021, 11:21 AM

An Asian elephant mother presumably wouldn't be able teach the baby on how to find food and survive through snowy winter.

crescent · 19th February 2021, 12:46 PM

This is relevant:

First clone of U.S. endangered species, a black-footed ferret, born in Colorado

They are not attempting to directly supplement the population through cloning, but instead are doing it to add genetic diversity to the breeding pool.

Quote:

“Biotechnology and genomic data can really make a difference on the ground with conservation efforts,” said Ben Novak, lead scientist with Revive & Restore, a biotechnology-focused conservation nonprofit that coordinated the ferret and horse clonings.

What else is this Novak guy working on?

Quote:

Novak, the lead scientist at Revive & Restore, calls himself the group’s “passenger pigeon guy” for his work to someday bring back the once common bird that has been extinct for over a century. Cloning birds is considered far more challenging than mammals because of their eggs, yet the group’s projects even include trying to bring back a woolly mammoth, a creature extinct for thousands of years.

ChrisBFRPKY · 19th February 2021, 12:59 PM

https://www.dw.com/en/japanese-scien...0mouse%20cells.

Article from 2019, Japanese team has some success implanting mammoth DNA into mouse embryos.

What are they trying to make? I guess a mouse sized mammoth would be cheaper to feed and a cool pet, but what if they get a mammoth sized mouse? Hide the cheese.

Ziggurat · 19th February 2021, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by William Parcher

An Asian elephant mother presumably wouldn't be able teach the baby on how to find food and survive through snowy winter.

Probably not relevant if the cloned mammoth isn't thrown into the wild.

jonesdave116 · 19th February 2021, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Probably not relevant if the cloned mammoth isn't thrown into the wild.

Throwing mammoths around probably isn't advisable.

jonesdave116 · 19th February 2021, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

but what if they get a mammoth sized mouse?

We'd need bigger cats;

Minoosh · 19th February 2021, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by William Parcher

The baby mammoth would have the wrong kind of mother and wouldn't be taught the ways of mammoth life. I don't know if that would be critical.

This is a good point. Is it ethical to recreate an individual of an extinct species, who will likely not have the benefit of the companionship and learning opportunities they would get from a community of mammoths?

Puppycow · 19th February 2021, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by Minoosh

This is a good point. Is it ethical to recreate an individual of an extinct species, who will likely not have the benefit of the companionship and learning opportunities they would get from a community of mammoths?

Well, humans do stuff like that all the time with wild animals raised in captivity. They will imprint on human "adoptive parents" if you raise them from a baby.

Trying to reintroduce an animal that has been raised that way to the wild is probably more ethically questionable.

You would need to set up some kind of animal sanctuary I think, complete with rangers and zoologists who can keep an eye on the animals in case they need assistance.

jonesdave116 · 19th February 2021, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

You would need to set up some kind of animal sanctuary I think, complete with rangers and zoologists who can keep an eye on the animals in case they need assistance.

Pleistocene Park?

Puppycow · 19th February 2021, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by jonesdave116

Pleistocene Park?

Exactly. What could go wrong?

jonesdave116 · 19th February 2021, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

Exactly. What could go wrong?

Indeed! We could also clone Neanderthals to act as rangers. Somewhere cold would be good. Scotland works for me. Plenty to eat, and not too warm for the mammoths. Even if they escaped, what harm could a mammoth do? Mind you, if the Neanderthals escaped....................nah, it's Scotland! Nobody would notice.

Minoosh · 19th February 2021, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

Well, humans do stuff like that all the time with wild animals raised in captivity. They will imprint on human "adoptive parents" if you raise them from a baby.

Adopting an orphan who would otherwise certainly die is one thing - creating an individual is different. I mean, it would be cool, and we'd probably learn a lot, but is it the right thing to do?

Originally Posted by Puppycow

Trying to reintroduce an animal that has been raised that way to the wild is probably more ethically questionable.

You would need to set up some kind of animal sanctuary I think, complete with rangers and zoologists who can keep an eye on the animals in case they need assistance.

Definitely.

rockinkt · 19th February 2021, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by jonesdave116

Indeed! We could also clone Neanderthals to act as rangers. Somewhere cold would be good. Scotland works for me. Plenty to eat, and not too warm for the mammoths. Even if they escaped, what harm could a mammoth do? Mind you, if the Neanderthals escaped....................nah, it's Scotland! Nobody would notice.

Roboramma · 19th February 2021, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by William Parcher

An Asian elephant mother presumably wouldn't be able teach the baby on how to find food and survive through snowy winter.

It's potentially possible that the first generation would need human caretakers to help integrate them into the wild. I think this is done with rescued animals be rewilded sometimes, so isn't a completely new idea.

Roboramma · 19th February 2021, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by jonesdave116

Pleistocene Park?

You know that's a real project right?

Roboramma · 19th February 2021, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by Minoosh

This is a good point. Is it ethical to recreate an individual of an extinct species, who will likely not have the benefit of the companionship and learning opportunities they would get from a community of mammoths?

The idea, as I mentioned earlier, really isn't to clone a few individuals. It's to produce a large population, so they would have the companionship of a community of mammoths.

The Shrike · 22nd February 2021, 05:56 PM

These folks claim to be working on it.

dudalb · 22nd February 2021, 05:59 PM

Call me when they get around to cloning a T Rex. That is what people want to see.....

Roboramma · 22nd February 2021, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Call me when they get around to cloning a T Rex. That is what people want to see.....

Given that we don't have the DNA of a T Rex, and never will, that's not going to happen.

Puppycow · 22nd February 2021, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Call me when they get around to cloning a T Rex. That is what people want to see.....

Originally Posted by Roboramma

Given that we don't have the DNA of a T Rex, and never will, that's not going to happen.

Just to explain a bit more: woolly mammoths were still alive much more recently than the dinosaurs. The dinosaurs were all wiped out (except for birds) 65 million years ago, whereas some mammoths were still alive as recently as 3,700 years ago (most went extinct about 10,500 years ago at the end of the most recent ice age). Thus it is at least conceivable that some mammoth remains may be found with DNA that can still be read. T-rex DNA would have disappeared a long time ago.

Skeptic Ginger · 22nd February 2021, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by Minoosh

This is a good point. Is it ethical to recreate an individual of an extinct species, who will likely not have the benefit of the companionship and learning opportunities they would get from a community of mammoths?

Oh please!

Minoosh I like you a lot and find your posts enjoyable, but this is nonsense.

Venom · 22nd February 2021, 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Call me when they get around to cloning a T Rex. That is what people want to see.....

I think there's a relative lack of enthusiasm about Pleistocene megafauna. Maybe people just don't know much about them or they see them as just more exotic versions of what we have today. Whereas the dinosaurs just stimulate the imagination far more because, besides certain birds, we have little to work off of.

Ain't gonna happen though. Too much time has passed.

catsmate · 23rd February 2021, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by Spektator

I think they should genetically engineer them to be the size of Scotties. They'd be adorable.

Ah, the geneered lap-elephants. They appear in my gaming.

The black-footed ferret has been cloned.

The Great Zaganza · 23rd February 2021, 08:41 AM

who cares, now that airlines don't accept emotional support animals anymore?

Yes	48	56.47%
No	28	32.94%
Other/Planet X	9	10.59%
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll

19th February 2021, 11:21 AM	#41
William Parcher Show me the monkey! Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 25,760	An Asian elephant mother presumably wouldn't be able teach the baby on how to find food and survive through snowy winter.
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19th February 2021, 12:59 PM	#43
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,662	https://www.dw.com/en/japanese-scien...0mouse%20cells. Article from 2019, Japanese team has some success implanting mammoth DNA into mouse embryos. What are they trying to make? I guess a mouse sized mammoth would be cheaper to feed and a cool pet, but what if they get a mammoth sized mouse? Hide the cheese.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,662

19th February 2021, 03:00 PM	#44
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 48,324	Originally Posted by William Parcher An Asian elephant mother presumably wouldn't be able teach the baby on how to find food and survive through snowy winter. Probably not relevant if the cloned mammoth isn't thrown into the wild.
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19th February 2021, 03:42 PM	#45
jonesdave116 Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 4,976	Originally Posted by Ziggurat Probably not relevant if the cloned mammoth isn't thrown into the wild. Throwing mammoths around probably isn't advisable.
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19th February 2021, 12:46 PM	#42
crescent Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Colorado Posts: 3,977	This is relevant: First clone of U.S. endangered species, a black-footed ferret, born in Colorado They are not attempting to directly supplement the population through cloning, but instead are doing it to add genetic diversity to the breeding pool. Quote: “Biotechnology and genomic data can really make a difference on the ground with conservation efforts,” said Ben Novak, lead scientist with Revive & Restore, a biotechnology-focused conservation nonprofit that coordinated the ferret and horse clonings. What else is this Novak guy working on? Quote: Novak, the lead scientist at Revive & Restore, calls himself the group’s “passenger pigeon guy” for his work to someday bring back the once common bird that has been extinct for over a century. Cloning birds is considered far more challenging than mammals because of their eggs, yet the group’s projects even include trying to bring back a woolly mammoth, a creature extinct for thousands of years.

19th February 2021, 03:48 PM	#46
jonesdave116 Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 4,976	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY but what if they get a mammoth sized mouse? We'd need bigger cats;
	__________________ “There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin Last edited by jonesdave116; 19th February 2021 at 03:51 PM.

19th February 2021, 03:57 PM	#47
Minoosh Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 12,238	Originally Posted by William Parcher The baby mammoth would have the wrong kind of mother and wouldn't be taught the ways of mammoth life. I don't know if that would be critical. This is a good point. Is it ethical to recreate an individual of an extinct species, who will likely not have the benefit of the companionship and learning opportunities they would get from a community of mammoths?

19th February 2021, 04:09 PM	#48
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 25,738	Originally Posted by Minoosh This is a good point. Is it ethical to recreate an individual of an extinct species, who will likely not have the benefit of the companionship and learning opportunities they would get from a community of mammoths? Well, humans do stuff like that all the time with wild animals raised in captivity. They will imprint on human "adoptive parents" if you raise them from a baby. Trying to reintroduce an animal that has been raised that way to the wild is probably more ethically questionable. You would need to set up some kind of animal sanctuary I think, complete with rangers and zoologists who can keep an eye on the animals in case they need assistance.
	__________________ A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare

19th February 2021, 04:13 PM	#49
jonesdave116 Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 4,976	Originally Posted by Puppycow You would need to set up some kind of animal sanctuary I think, complete with rangers and zoologists who can keep an eye on the animals in case they need assistance. Pleistocene Park?
	__________________ “There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin

19th February 2021, 04:20 PM	#50
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 25,738	Originally Posted by jonesdave116 Pleistocene Park? Exactly. What could go wrong?
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19th February 2021, 04:25 PM	#51
jonesdave116 Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 4,976	Originally Posted by Puppycow Exactly. What could go wrong? Indeed! We could also clone Neanderthals to act as rangers. Somewhere cold would be good. Scotland works for me. Plenty to eat, and not too warm for the mammoths. Even if they escaped, what harm could a mammoth do? Mind you, if the Neanderthals escaped....................nah, it's Scotland! Nobody would notice.
	__________________ “There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin

19th February 2021, 04:33 PM	#52
Minoosh Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 12,238	Originally Posted by Puppycow Well, humans do stuff like that all the time with wild animals raised in captivity. They will imprint on human "adoptive parents" if you raise them from a baby. Adopting an orphan who would otherwise certainly die is one thing - creating an individual is different. I mean, it would be cool, and we'd probably learn a lot, but is it the right thing to do? Originally Posted by Puppycow Trying to reintroduce an animal that has been raised that way to the wild is probably more ethically questionable. You would need to set up some kind of animal sanctuary I think, complete with rangers and zoologists who can keep an eye on the animals in case they need assistance. Definitely.

19th February 2021, 05:32 PM	#53
rockinkt Master Poster Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,096	Originally Posted by jonesdave116 Indeed! We could also clone Neanderthals to act as rangers. Somewhere cold would be good. Scotland works for me. Plenty to eat, and not too warm for the mammoths. Even if they escaped, what harm could a mammoth do? Mind you, if the Neanderthals escaped....................nah, it's Scotland! Nobody would notice.
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19th February 2021, 05:54 PM	#54
Roboramma Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shanghai Posts: 14,261	Originally Posted by William Parcher An Asian elephant mother presumably wouldn't be able teach the baby on how to find food and survive through snowy winter. It's potentially possible that the first generation would need human caretakers to help integrate them into the wild. I think this is done with rescued animals be rewilded sometimes, so isn't a completely new idea.
	__________________ "... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov

19th February 2021, 05:57 PM	#55
Roboramma Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shanghai Posts: 14,261	Originally Posted by jonesdave116 Pleistocene Park? You know that's a real project right?
	__________________ "... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov

19th February 2021, 05:59 PM	#56
Roboramma Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shanghai Posts: 14,261	Originally Posted by Minoosh This is a good point. Is it ethical to recreate an individual of an extinct species, who will likely not have the benefit of the companionship and learning opportunities they would get from a community of mammoths? The idea, as I mentioned earlier, really isn't to clone a few individuals. It's to produce a large population, so they would have the companionship of a community of mammoths.
	__________________ "... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov

22nd February 2021, 05:56 PM	#57
The Shrike Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oklahoma, USA Posts: 5,147	These folks claim to be working on it.

22nd February 2021, 05:59 PM	#58
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,327	Call me when they get around to cloning a T Rex. That is what people want to see.....
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22nd February 2021, 06:33 PM	#59
Roboramma Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shanghai Posts: 14,261	Originally Posted by dudalb Call me when they get around to cloning a T Rex. That is what people want to see..... Given that we don't have the DNA of a T Rex, and never will, that's not going to happen.
	__________________ "... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov

22nd February 2021, 10:15 PM	#60
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 25,738	Originally Posted by dudalb Call me when they get around to cloning a T Rex. That is what people want to see..... Originally Posted by Roboramma Given that we don't have the DNA of a T Rex, and never will, that's not going to happen. Just to explain a bit more: woolly mammoths were still alive much more recently than the dinosaurs. The dinosaurs were all wiped out (except for birds) 65 million years ago, whereas some mammoths were still alive as recently as 3,700 years ago (most went extinct about 10,500 years ago at the end of the most recent ice age). Thus it is at least conceivable that some mammoth remains may be found with DNA that can still be read. T-rex DNA would have disappeared a long time ago.
	__________________ A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare

22nd February 2021, 11:35 PM	#61
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 86,876	Originally Posted by Minoosh This is a good point. Is it ethical to recreate an individual of an extinct species, who will likely not have the benefit of the companionship and learning opportunities they would get from a community of mammoths? Oh please! Minoosh I like you a lot and find your posts enjoyable, but this is nonsense.

22nd February 2021, 11:44 PM	#62
Venom Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 4,891	Originally Posted by dudalb Call me when they get around to cloning a T Rex. That is what people want to see..... I think there's a relative lack of enthusiasm about Pleistocene megafauna. Maybe people just don't know much about them or they see them as just more exotic versions of what we have today. Whereas the dinosaurs just stimulate the imagination far more because, besides certain birds, we have little to work off of. Ain't gonna happen though. Too much time has passed.

23rd February 2021, 08:04 AM	#63
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 23,835	Originally Posted by Spektator I think they should genetically engineer them to be the size of Scotties. They'd be adorable. Ah, the geneered lap-elephants. They appear in my gaming. The black-footed ferret has been cloned.
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23rd February 2021, 08:41 AM	#64
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,653	who cares, now that airlines don't accept emotional support animals anymore?
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