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Tags cancer treatments , Coronavirus , Coronavirus treatment , vitamin c

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Old 21st August 2020, 09:24 PM   #41
novaphile
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IIRC too much vitamin C causes mucus membranes to dry out.

People could imagine this to be stopping a cold (rather than just making the nose dry)
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Old 22nd August 2020, 08:07 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
Arguing with you guys is like trying to nail a turd to a wall.
Actually you can nail a turd to a wall with care. What you are doing is trying to nail Jello to a wall carelessly. Get the analogy?
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Old 22nd August 2020, 09:40 AM   #43
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Somewhere, Linus Pauling is smiling in his grave.
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Old 23rd August 2020, 02:30 AM   #44
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In general you can always rely on Goldilocks for good medical advice.

High (mega) doses of vitamin C are harmful. It produces a potential acid load which affects the function and distribution of electrolytes in the body, the high amounts of vitamin C are converted to oxalates (oxalic acid is the toxin in rhubarb leaves), which in turn can cause renal failure. In susceptible people it can also cause iron toxicity if high doses are taken over years which can cause heart and liver damage.

Taking more than a gram a day has no benefits as this is above the body's daily requirements and the excess is passed out in the urine as oxalate.

Patients if competent are free to take irrational decisions. However on a skeptic site we should all recognise how people value even poor quality information that agrees with their pre-conceptions as compared with high quality evidence that opposes it. I frequently hear people say when advised to stop smoking and offered referral to smoking cessation clinic, 'My (brother / father / friend) stopped smoking and within 6 months they were dead of lung cancer'. That personal anecdotal experience will trump my pointing out that many people lose interest in smoking when they develop lung cancer, it is recognised that spontaneously stopping smoking just before coming to see a doctor about e.g. a cough is a strong marker of underlying lung cancer, that cancer develops over years not months etc.
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Old 25th August 2020, 07:34 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Somewhere, Linus Pauling is smiling in his grave.
I love the last three words of that sentence.
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Old 2nd September 2020, 10:09 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
I'm curious. I warn you though, I have cellular and molecular/ microbiology training, and remember a few of the mechanisms. By the way, Vitamin C is ascorbic acid.
Ascorbic acid doesn't kill viruses. It facilitates the production of Interferons, which themselves enable the production of T cells, specifically hunter killer T cells, which kill viruses. How do you have microbiology training and don't know this?

I've already had, in all likelihood, covid-19 in early June, and cleared it via zinc, vitamin D, and megadose vitamin C supplementation. While my own anecdote isn't a controlled study, vitamin C megadosing absolutely works for me. Since I learned about it, it's significantly shortened every viral infection I've had.
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Old 2nd September 2020, 10:20 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
All that I know about vitamin C is that it is water-soluble. This means that if the body does not use it, the vitamin is pissed out of the body. So a mega dose is unlikely to do anything more beneficial than a much smaller dose would.
Actually, the second part is false. Human beings are naturally deficient in Vitamin C because of the deficiency in an enzyme called L-gulonolactone_oxidase. It is non-functional in us. While vitamin C is water-soluable, the immune system's demand for it skyrockets during viral infections. I've witnessed this first hand, as in early June I am pretty sure I had covid-19, with the symptoms of fever, severe headache, and severe fatigue and body aches. On two non-consecutive days for about two weeks when the symptoms were most severe, I was consuming as much as 70g of vitamin C per day! Ordinarily, such a high dose would result in extreme diarrhea and dehydration, but on those days it did not. In between, I was consuming as much as 10-20 g/day. Megadosing vitamin C works, it's just not useful if you're not sick.
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Old 2nd September 2020, 10:24 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Anyone who likes is welcome to walk into a high-risk viral environment and stuff themselves to the eyeballs with vitamin C. I won't be joining them. I'll leave others to continue the demolition of the quack.
Already done it. I play blackjack on a casino cruise weekly, and have been since it re-opened during the pandemic. I also play poker weekly at a different locale. Both are fairly high-risk for covid, as the table games result in handling either cards, chips, or both that have been handled by other players who are likely positive for the virus. Having already had and cleared it, I have absolutely no fear because I know how to beat it. You are "free" to imprison yourself with your own fear and ignorance.
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Old 2nd September 2020, 10:29 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
Every morning I open the window and take a deep breath. Haven't been ill in 3 years. Does oxygen therapy work? I would say I'm living proof, but that won't satisfy a 'skeptic' (AKA conformist). There has never been and will never be a 'trial' to provide the absolute proof some will demand (can you figure out why? oxygen is free - think 'conflict of interest')
Air from outside your window is mostly N2,O2, Ar, and CO2. The fact that you're alive and able to post your anecdote, plus the body of respiratory biology, is good evidence that Oxygen, plus those other compounds and elements, is keeping you alive. Have you met any such skeptics?
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Old 2nd September 2020, 12:26 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
Actually, the second part is false. Human beings are naturally deficient in Vitamin C because of the deficiency in an enzyme called L-gulonolactone_oxidase. It is non-functional in us. While vitamin C is water-soluable, the immune system's demand for it skyrockets during viral infections. I've witnessed this first hand, as in early June I am pretty sure I had covid-19, with the symptoms of fever, severe headache, and severe fatigue and body aches. On two non-consecutive days for about two weeks when the symptoms were most severe, I was consuming as much as 70g of vitamin C per day! Ordinarily, such a high dose would result in extreme diarrhea and dehydration, but on those days it did not. In between, I was consuming as much as 10-20 g/day. Megadosing vitamin C works, it's just not useful if you're not sick.
This reminds me a little of the old joke about the snake-oil salesman who says he can cure a cold:

"Just take two teaspoons of this each morning for seven to ten days and your cold will be gone!'
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Old 2nd September 2020, 01:20 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by JimOfAllTrades View Post
This reminds me a little of the old joke about the snake-oil salesman who says he can cure a cold:

"Just take two teaspoons of this each morning for seven to ten days and your cold will be gone!'
I'm not selling anything. I don't have any stock in supplement companies, or vitamin C. If the idea is that I would have gotten over Covid without the large doses on the two days that I had severe symptoms, then I suppose that is possible. It wasn't a controlled study, just a personal anecdote. But the fact that I recovered from each of those fairly bad days (spent most of the day incapacitated with fever and severe headache), combined with my prior experience of C megadosing at the first onset of viral symptoms (including colds, and mono) and having those symptoms and durations reduced, is enough to have convinced me.
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Old 2nd September 2020, 01:26 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
Ascorbic acid doesn't kill viruses. It facilitates the production of Interferons, which themselves enable the production of T cells, specifically hunter killer T cells, which kill viruses. How do you have microbiology training and don't know this?

I've already had, in all likelihood, covid-19 in early June, and cleared it via zinc, vitamin D, and megadose vitamin C supplementation. While my own anecdote isn't a controlled study, vitamin C megadosing absolutely works for me. Since I learned about it, it's significantly shortened every viral infection I've had.
So did thousands of other people many with no symptoms at all and all with no extra zinc, vitamin D, or vitamin C. In the vast majority of people, they get better with none of this nonsense. Everyone gets better from colds.

PS there are no such things as hunter killer T cells, you are thinking of submarines.
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Old 2nd September 2020, 02:30 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
So did thousands of other people many with no symptoms at all and all with no extra zinc, vitamin D, or vitamin C. In the vast majority of people, they get better with none of this nonsense. Everyone gets better from colds.

PS there are no such things as hunter killer T cells, you are thinking of submarines.
I am thinking of natural killer T cells. Vitamin C megadosing isn't nonsense, I've experienced the results. It moderates viral symptoms and duration. There are also NIH studies which you undoubtedly haven't read, and not worth linking to pseudo-skeptics. The so-called side effects that you typed in a few posts up are the only nonsense here. Vitamin C is safe, and cheap, even in massive doses, so there is virtually no cost if you want to run the experiment yourself.
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Old 2nd September 2020, 02:56 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
I am thinking of natural killer T cells. Vitamin C megadosing isn't nonsense, I've experienced the results. It moderates viral symptoms and duration. There are also NIH studies which you undoubtedly haven't read, and not worth linking to pseudo-skeptics. The so-called side effects that you typed in a few posts up are the only nonsense here. Vitamin C is safe, and cheap, even in massive doses, so there is virtually no cost if you want to run the experiment yourself.
One man's anecdote does not make science. Correlation does not mean cause.

A good summary of current Vitamin C research is here: https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Vi...hProfessional/

In summary -- some mild benefits, for some cases, sometimes. A universal panacea for all diseases, NO.
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Old 2nd September 2020, 03:05 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
All that I know about vitamin C is that it is water-soluble. This means that if the body does not use it, the vitamin is pissed out of the body. So a mega dose is unlikely to do anything more beneficial than a much smaller dose would.
Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
It might help keep your toilet free of limescale?
Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
Probably. I sometimes descale my kettle with it. ETA >> not ideal though, it's a relatively weak acid.

I can think of other ways it isn’t ideal.
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Old 2nd September 2020, 07:19 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
If the idea is that I would have gotten over Covid without the large doses on the two days that I had severe symptoms, then I suppose that is possible.
From what I understand that is what happens with almost everyone, so it seems more probable then possible.

Quote:
It wasn't a controlled study, just a personal anecdote. But the fact that I recovered from each of those fairly bad days (spent most of the day incapacitated with fever and severe headache), combined with my prior experience of C megadosing at the first onset of viral symptoms (including colds, and mono) and having those symptoms and durations reduced, is enough to have convinced me.
Correct, anecdotes are not evidence, and your personal experience (like everyone else's) is likely to be highly colored by expectations and other things. Remember who Feynman said is the easiest person to fool.

My understanding is that the properly controlled studies that have been done don't really support your position.
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Old 2nd September 2020, 09:21 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by JimOfAllTrades View Post
From what I understand that is what happens with almost everyone, so it seems more probable then possible.
Given the severity of the symptoms (I was near delirous for a few hours the first day of headaches), I'm pretty certain that the massive doses of vitamin C helped, which was consistent with my recent experience using it when i've been ill.

Quote:

Correct, anecdotes are not evidence, and your personal experience (like everyone else's) is likely to be highly colored by expectations and other things. Remember who Feynman said is the easiest person to fool.
I never said anecdotes are not evidence, you did. Personal observation is no less evidence than any other observation. Anecdotes which are then retold by witnesses are considered hearsay in courts of law, but that doesn't apply here, since I'm relating my own experience. My own observations and experience are very valuable to me, perhaps even more valuable than biased controlled studies with the objective of selling toxic pharmaceuticals (as evidence by the litany of class action lawsuits against harmful drugs, all of which passed "peer review").

Quote:

My understanding is that the properly controlled studies that have been done don't really support your position.
You lack understanding, but I'm not here to hold your hand. You could try using google scholar, and/or read the NIH studies concerning Vitamin C.
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Old 3rd September 2020, 08:43 AM   #58
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So, no diagnosis of Covid...Just an assumption that it was Covid...

A claim that mega-dosing with Vit C then cleared up this undiagnosed viral illness, despite all available relevant literature showing no health benefits from mega-dosing with any vitamin...

And then - oh lookee - a pop at standard trials 'cos they all must be biased for not showing what someone wants.

I'm sold!

Last edited by Carrot Flower King; 3rd September 2020 at 08:45 AM. Reason: speeling
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Old 3rd September 2020, 12:01 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King View Post
So, no diagnosis of Covid...Just an assumption that it was Covid...

A claim that mega-dosing with Vit C then cleared up this undiagnosed viral illness, despite all available relevant literature showing no health benefits from mega-dosing with any vitamin...

And then - oh lookee - a pop at standard trials 'cos they all must be biased for not showing what someone wants.

I'm sold!
Great. Now I have this deal on a large bridge in Brooklyn and you can get in on the ground floor for only 1000 BitCoins. The potential is unlimited!
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Old 3rd September 2020, 12:06 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
All you need to do is stock up with vitamin C powder (very cheap - at the moment). If you even suspect you've contracted C19 take 3-4 hourly doses of 5-6 grams for several days. If you know it's prevalent and your exposure risk is high, do the same. You may well get the runs, IOW reach what's called your 'bowel tolerance' limit and if it's really bad back off the dosage until it's at least,er, under control. This kills ALL viruses, not just C19. Or don't, as your quack will surely advise you.

What's your evidence for all this? Do you claim that "quacks" (who most of us would call extensively educated doctors and scientists) are concealing this miracle cure for their own nefarious purposes?
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Old 3rd September 2020, 12:36 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
I never said anecdotes are not evidence, you did. Personal observation is no less evidence than any other observation. Anecdotes which are then retold by witnesses are considered hearsay in courts of law, but that doesn't apply here, since I'm relating my own experience. My own observations and experience are very valuable to me, perhaps even more valuable than biased controlled studies with the objective of selling toxic pharmaceuticals (as evidence by the litany of class action lawsuits against harmful drugs, all of which passed "peer review").
Anecdotal evidence is certainly evidence, but it's not considered sufficient to reach a reliable conclusion because of the cognitive biases (especially confirmation bias) built into the way in which the human brain works, which can fool us into making false positive correlations. Those cognitive biases are the reason why the scientific method had to be invented, and controlled, double blinded trials - which are designed specifically to eliminate their effect - are one of the most useful tools in its toolbox. They're not perfect - even large trials may not catch rare side effects, and human error can always creep in - but they are considerably more reliable than personal experience.
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Old 3rd September 2020, 12:46 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
Given the severity of the symptoms (I was near delirous for a few hours the first day of headaches), I'm pretty certain that the massive doses of vitamin C helped, which was consistent with my recent experience using it when i've been ill.



I never said anecdotes are not evidence, you did. Personal observation is no less evidence than any other observation. Anecdotes which are then retold by witnesses are considered hearsay in courts of law, but that doesn't apply here, since I'm relating my own experience. My own observations and experience are very valuable to me, perhaps even more valuable than biased controlled studies with the objective of selling toxic pharmaceuticals (as evidence by the litany of class action lawsuits against harmful drugs, all of which passed "peer review").



You lack understanding, but I'm not here to hold your hand. You could try using google scholar, and/or read the NIH studies concerning Vitamin C.
Welcome to the placebo zone!
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Old 3rd September 2020, 01:13 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Anecdotal evidence is certainly evidence, but it's not considered sufficient to reach a reliable conclusion because of the cognitive biases (especially confirmation bias) built into the way in which the human brain works, which can fool us into making false positive correlations. Those cognitive biases are the reason why the scientific method had to be invented, and controlled, double blinded trials - which are designed specifically to eliminate their effect - are one of the most useful tools in its toolbox. They're not perfect - even large trials may not catch rare side effects, and human error can always creep in - but they are considerably more reliable than personal experience.

Anecdotal evidence is something you might use when formulating a hypothesis, but not when testing one.
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Old 3rd September 2020, 01:50 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Anecdotal evidence is certainly evidence, but it's not considered sufficient to reach a reliable conclusion because of the cognitive biases (especially confirmation bias) built into the way in which the human brain works, which can fool us into making false positive correlations. Those cognitive biases are the reason why the scientific method had to be invented, and controlled, double blinded trials - which are designed specifically to eliminate their effect - are one of the most useful tools in its toolbox. They're not perfect - even large trials may not catch rare side effects, and human error can always creep in - but they are considerably more reliable than personal experience.
I don't think so. If my personal experience with megadosing Vitamin C has been notably beneficial (compared to the series of viral infections i've had throughout my life before it), then what do I really care about peer reviewed studies? the LD50 of vitamin C is similar to that which would be required to kill you if dropped on your head from above, and it's cheap. So the cost-benefit is infinitesimally low.
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Old 3rd September 2020, 01:55 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King View Post
So, no diagnosis of Covid...Just an assumption that it was Covid...

A claim that mega-dosing with Vit C then cleared up this undiagnosed viral illness, despite all available relevant literature showing no health benefits from mega-dosing with any vitamin...

And then - oh lookee - a pop at standard trials 'cos they all must be biased for not showing what someone wants.

I'm sold!
Good thing vitamin C costs virtually nothing!

This is the great thing about natural selection, isn't it? All of the pseudo-skeptics that can't be bothered to do some basic research and who will pooh-pooh this information out of hand are that much more likely to die from something entirely preventable/curable as a result - if it's efficacious, and those of us who don't, are not! Of course, if the information is false and my benefits are nothing more than bias, I haven't really lost much since the cost-benefit is so low.

Either way, everyone gets exactly what they deserve. It's beautiful.
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Old 3rd September 2020, 01:57 PM   #66
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Similar personal experiences are responsible for belief in astrology, dowsing, mediums, homeopathy ...

The point is that you cannot know if your megadoses of Vitamin C have actually been beneficial or not based on your personal experiences alone. You can, as Mojo says, reasonably form that hypothesis, but you need to carefully and methodically eliminate the effect of your cognitive biases before you can safely conclude it. And to do that, you need to use the scientific method.
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Old 3rd September 2020, 02:05 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Similar personal experiences are responsible for belief in astrology, dowsing, mediums, homeopathy ...

The point is that you cannot know if your megadoses of Vitamin C have actually been beneficial or not based on your personal experiences alone. You can, as Mojo says, reasonably form that hypothesis, but you need to carefully and methodically eliminate the effect of your cognitive biases before you can safely conclude it. And to do that, you need to use the scientific method.
That is patently and ridiculously false. In fact, I have an entire series of viral infections throughout my life, for which I've responded or someone has responded on my behalf with treatments, all with varying outcomes. If I've obtained exceptionally beneficial outcomes from the most recent series of viral infections, and all with a causal attribute - vitamin C megadosing, then this is not unlike a controlled study, except the subject is always myself, and the control group was the previous experiments in the series without the attribute.

So >I< can know. Whether or not that convinces a so-called skeptic on some internet forum, is up to them. Not holding my breath? But that's ok.
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Old 3rd September 2020, 02:08 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
This is the great thing about natural selection, isn't it? All of the pseudo-skeptics that can't be bothered to do some basic research and who will pooh-pooh this information out of hand are that much more likely to die from something entirely preventable/curable as a result - if it's efficacious, and those of us who don't, are not! Of course, if the information is false and my benefits are nothing more than bias, I haven't really lost much since the cost-benefit is so low.

Either way, everyone gets exactly what they deserve. It's beautiful.

Says the person relying on anecdotes...
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Old 3rd September 2020, 02:09 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Says the person relying on anecdotes...
You're confused. The anecdote was mine, and I did the research prior to using the treatment.
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Old 3rd September 2020, 02:12 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
That is patently and ridiculously false. In fact, I have an entire series of viral infections throughout my life, for which I've responded or someone has responded on my behalf with treatments, all with varying outcomes. If I've obtained exceptionally beneficial outcomes from the most recent series of viral infections, and all with a causal attribute - vitamin C megadosing, then this is not unlike a controlled study, except the subject is always myself, and the control group was the previous experiments in the series without the attribute.

So >I< can know. Whether or not that convinces a so-called skeptic on some internet forum, is up to them. Not holding my breath? But that's ok.

The top of my head is currently 320 feet above sea level. Can you know from that how tall I am?
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Old 3rd September 2020, 10:34 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
That is patently and ridiculously false.
The scientific method is patently and ridiculously false? One wonders, in that case, how we have managed to achieve so much with it since its invention.

Quote:
In fact, I have an entire series of viral infections throughout my life, for which I've responded or someone has responded on my behalf with treatments, all with varying outcomes. If I've obtained exceptionally beneficial outcomes from the most recent series of viral infections, and all with a causal attribute - vitamin C megadosing, then this is not unlike a controlled study, except the subject is always myself, and the control group was the previous experiments in the series without the attribute.
That is entirely unlike a controlled study, as you would know if you did some basic research. Start by finding out what "blinded" means in that context.

Quote:
So >I< can know. Whether or not that convinces a so-called skeptic on some internet forum, is up to them. Not holding my breath? But that's ok.
Based on your subjective experiences, you can only suspect. You might be right, but only when you have carefully and methodically eliminated the effects of your cognitive biases can you know.

And yes, this is a sceptics forum. Sceptics require objective evidence before they accept claims. It's sort of our thing.
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Old 3rd September 2020, 10:50 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
You're confused. The anecdote was mine, and I did the research prior to using the treatment.

I see no evidence that you did any research. You imply above that there are “NIH studies” that support your position. Link to them, please.
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Old 3rd September 2020, 11:10 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
That is entirely unlike a controlled study, as you would know if you did some basic research. Start by finding out what "blinded" means in that context.

Never mind “blinded”, he needs to find out what “controlled” means.
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Old 4th September 2020, 02:59 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
Good thing vitamin C costs virtually nothing!

This is the great thing about natural selection, isn't it? All of the pseudo-skeptics that can't be bothered to do some basic research and who will pooh-pooh this information out of hand are that much more likely to die from something entirely preventable/curable as a result - if it's efficacious, and those of us who don't, are not! Of course, if the information is false and my benefits are nothing more than bias, I haven't really lost much since the cost-benefit is so low.

Either way, everyone gets exactly what they deserve. It's beautiful.
While I have not personally carried out research into health benefits of mega-dosing with vitamins, lacking the necessary ethics committee, labs, thousands of subjects to fit into the necessary different groups, a whole bunch of research assistants and all the rest, I have read numerous papers, meta-analyses'n'all on the subject, which is as good as most of us can manage...Which is still better than a personal anecdote about some undiagnosed, and thus unidentified, condition and how a "treatment" which has been repeatedly and consistently shown NOT to work apparently "cured" this condition which no-one has any evidence actually existed.

Gord has a bridge you might want to look at. And Steve Earle has some snake oil you might want to try (FFS, listening to the Copperhead Road album at its proper, entertaining volume will work at least as well as Vit C, with the added benefit of Steve Earle!).
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Old 4th September 2020, 03:06 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
You're confused. The anecdote was mine, and I did the research prior to using the treatment.
Go on then: give us a clue, or some links would be even better, as to what this research is. Many of us here have a scientific background and are well-equipped to read and understand biological and medical research (some of us even have a clinical background, which in my case is not of direct relevance, except that I do know quite a bit about human thought processes, cognitive biases/distortions and placebo).
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Old 4th September 2020, 03:59 AM   #76
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Shall I tell you what cured me of norovirus?

Well, I say norovirus, but I wasn't diagnosed...Well, I had just worked an agency shift in a nursing home which was blitzed by diagnosed norovirus and then came down with the most horrendous D&V, lost around 10kg...

What cured me was a combination of lying on the bathroom floor, wrapped up in a duvet for about 4 days, surfacing about twice a day to feed and water the cats and sort out their litter trays.

That must be what cured me 'cos it was all I did for several days and I got better.
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Old 4th September 2020, 06:28 AM   #77
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I'm not going to spend a huge amount of my time on this but I did search for NHS comments on vitamin C and cancer.

Here is one web page I read: https://www.nhs.uk/news/cancer/vitam...o-boost-chemo/

From that page:
Quote:
The vitamin C doses were given intravenously (not as tablets or food) in both mice and humans. The part of the trial conducted on people was too small to prove whether vitamin C helped kill cancer cells or increased survival from cancer up to five years after diagnosis. The results were not statistically significant, and any beneficial effects could have been down to chance alone.
I think I'll go with the NHS.
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Old 4th September 2020, 07:44 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
The scientific method is patently and ridiculously false? One wonders, in that case, how we have managed to achieve so much with it since its invention.
Your reading comprehension is suspect. I didn't say that the scientific method is false, I was referring to the ridiculous idea that one cannot know anything based on personal observations/experiences alone. If you'd read Popper, you would know that all non-falsifiable claims are non-scientific (but not necessarily non-meaningful). The claim I made was not only falsifiable, it's also practically falsifiable. Therefore, not only is it scientific, the low cost of the substance in question, and it's non-lethality means that you don't need a lab and millions of dollars to perform your own tests and (hopefully) reproduce the results.

Quote:

That is entirely unlike a controlled study, as you would know if you did some basic research. Start by finding out what "blinded" means in that context.
It's not a controlled study, but there is a control group (my past experience without the substance). Which is another way of saying, we as human beings are capable of basic pattern recognition, and we can learn from this. It doesn't need to be blinded, because my original goal was to shorten the intensity and duration of my colds, not convince pseudo-skeptics on the internet.

If you think that learning is only possible by reading peer-reviewed science, without recognizing the limitations of such, and the humans who conduct it, then I feel sorry for you.

Quote:

Based on your subjective experiences, you can only suspect. You might be right, but only when you have carefully and methodically eliminated the effects of your cognitive biases can you know.

And yes, this is a sceptics forum. Sceptics require objective evidence before they accept claims. It's sort of our thing.
I don't think "knowledge" is this binary thing. Which is why it's important to understand statistics like confidence intervals when interpreting results. This explains how we can "know" things even without peer reviewed science, and how even peer review can fail at knowing what is safe and efficacious.
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Old 4th September 2020, 07:45 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King View Post
Go on then: give us a clue, or some links would be even better, as to what this research is. Many of us here have a scientific background and are well-equipped to read and understand biological and medical research (some of us even have a clinical background, which in my case is not of direct relevance, except that I do know quite a bit about human thought processes, cognitive biases/distortions and placebo).
I gave you a reference, which is more than adequate for someone of your background to find some links. The rest is up to you.
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Old 4th September 2020, 07:47 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
I'm not going to spend a huge amount of my time on this but I did search for NHS comments on vitamin C and cancer.

Here is one web page I read: https://www.nhs.uk/news/cancer/vitam...o-boost-chemo/

From that page:


I think I'll go with the NHS.
Congratulations, you posted a link disproving a claim not made by me! Impressive logic, and reading comprehension.
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