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Tags cancer treatments , Coronavirus , Coronavirus treatment , vitamin c

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Old 4th September 2020, 09:21 AM   #81
Carrot Flower King
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Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
I gave you a reference, which is more than adequate for someone of your background to find some links. The rest is up to you.
The only link you have provided is to the Wiki page about a particular enzyme: it's not about anything to do with mega-dosing on Vit C doing anything to any virus.

To be clear NOTHING in that link has anything to do with actual vitamin C nor supposed anti-viral activities of vitamin C.

You have not provided anything else which remotely resembles a reference.

I told you I have read quite a number of papers and meta-analyses which show NO SUCH EFFECT as you claim, so I have already used my background on this topic, thank you very much.

It's your claim: why are you so reluctant to back it up?
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Old 4th September 2020, 09:27 AM   #82
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If you "skeptics" won't listen to Tippit, you'll listen to ME, by neddie jingo.

I've been shot at twice in my life, and missed both times. Obviously -- maybe not to you sudoku-skeptics, but to me -- I am surrounded by a protective force field. The control group is my immaculately intact hide both before and after!

Did you read this far? Did you comprehend? No? Well dammit, I'm not here to hold your hand!

Go look up some evidence or something.
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Old 4th September 2020, 09:41 AM   #83
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I'm a Brit, so I'd be a "sceptic", so does that mean he was talking to me too?
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Old 4th September 2020, 09:49 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
If you "skeptics" won't listen to Tippit, you'll listen to ME, by neddie jingo.

I've been shot at twice in my life, and missed both times. Obviously -- maybe not to you sudoku-skeptics, but to me -- I am surrounded by a protective force field. The control group is my immaculately intact hide both before and after!

We’re you taking vitamin C at the time?
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Old 4th September 2020, 10:04 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
Your reading comprehension is suspect. I didn't say that the scientific method is false, I was referring to the ridiculous idea that one cannot know anything based on personal observations/experiences alone.
You probably could know, but only if you caught a virus once per week or something, and alternated taking the C and not taking it. Most people average one or two colds per year. There are too many variables and not nearly enough data in one lifetime.
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Old 4th September 2020, 10:21 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
It's not a controlled study, but there is a control group (my past experience without the substance). Which is another way of saying, we as human beings are capable of basic pattern recognition, and we can learn from this.
The problem is that the human brain is too capable of pattern recognition, that's the very cognitive bias we need to be aware of and for which we need to compensate. We're biased in favour of making false positive mistakes rather than risking a false negative, because false negatives are more likely to be fatal. Rather mistake a shadow for a bear, and waste energy running away, than mistake a bear for a shadow, and get eaten by a bear. Again: our cognitive biases are the reason why the scientific method had to be invented; so we can be sure that the pattern we think we see is really there and is not just an artefact of those cognitive biases. Without it we are doomed to always see signals in the noise, even when there is really only noise.

Quote:
It doesn't need to be blinded, because my original goal was to shorten the intensity and duration of my colds, not convince pseudo-skeptics on the internet.
It needs to be blinded so you don't inadvertently fool yourself into thinking you see a pattern that isn't really there.

Quote:
If you think that learning is only possible by reading peer-reviewed science, without recognizing the limitations of such, and the humans who conduct it, then I feel sorry for you.
If you think that learning is only possible by personal, subjective experience, without recognizing the limitations of such - unconscious biases, fallible perceptions, selective and malleable memory - then I feel sorry for you.
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Old 4th September 2020, 10:38 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
The problem is that the human brain is too capable of pattern recognition, that's the very cognitive bias we need to be aware of and for which we need to compensate. We're biased in favour of making false positive mistakes rather than risking a false negative, because false negatives are more likely to be fatal. Rather mistake a shadow for a bear, and waste energy running away, than mistake a bear for a shadow, and get eaten by a bear. Again: our cognitive biases are the reason why the scientific method had to be invented; so we can be sure that the pattern we think we see is really there and is not just an artefact of those cognitive biases. Without it we are doomed to always see signals in the noise, even when there is really only noise.
I don't disagree with any of that. The problem is with your analogy of bears, shadows, and consuming vitamin C. Ascorbic acid is a non-lethal, water soluable organic compound with a long history of human experimentation. It has less of an established history of megadosing while sick as a an anti-viral remedy, but this is why it's a hypothesis. Bears are lethal, costly to experiment with, and probably aren't an effective anti-viral. There is an element of cost-beneficiality which precludes much risk in conducting this experiment for yourself, and, not coincidentally, which also precludes any well funded double blind placebo-controlled studies from taking place (hint: there is no money in it).

Quote:


It needs to be blinded so you don't inadvertently fool yourself into thinking you see a pattern that isn't really there.
No, it doesn't, because the consequences of it not working for me are not catastrophic. *You* may require a double blinded placebo controlled study in order for you to accept my hypothesis, but that's your problem, and, in my opinion, a deficiency in cost-benefit awareness which is common.

Quote:

If you think that learning is only possible by personal, subjective experience, without recognizing the limitations of such - unconscious biases, fallible perceptions, selective and malleable memory - then I feel sorry for you.
You don't have to feel sorry for me, because I don't think that. I think knowledge exists in different categories, with different levels of confidence.

There is a place for peer reviewed science, common sense, personal observation, and even shared, inter-subjective experience.
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Old 4th September 2020, 10:47 AM   #88
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:shrug: if you're determined to take decisions about your health based on inadequate and unreliable information, it's your funeral. Possibly literally.
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Old 4th September 2020, 11:15 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
I don't disagree with any of that. The problem is with your analogy of bears, shadows, and consuming vitamin C. Ascorbic acid is a non-lethal, water soluable organic compound with a long history of human experimentation. It has less of an established history of megadosing while sick as a an anti-viral remedy, but this is why it's a hypothesis. Bears are lethal, costly to experiment with, and probably aren't an effective anti-viral. There is an element of cost-beneficiality which precludes much risk in conducting this experiment for yourself, and, not coincidentally, which also precludes any well funded double blind placebo-controlled studies from taking place (hint: there is no money in it).



No, it doesn't, because the consequences of it not working for me are not catastrophic. *You* may require a double blinded placebo controlled study in order for you to accept my hypothesis, but that's your problem, and, in my opinion, a deficiency in cost-benefit awareness which is common.



You don't have to feel sorry for me, because I don't think that. I think knowledge exists in different categories, with different levels of confidence.

There is a place for peer reviewed science, common sense, personal observation, and even shared, inter-subjective experience.
Claim: This product is safe because it is well studied.

Response: Yes, and the studies show no benefit.

Claim: My use of this product is not well studied and could be beneficial.

Response: If your use is not well studied then doesn't that undermine your claim of safety?

+++++++++

An old adage, but seems appropriate: If a product does not have any side effects, then it likely doesn't have any effects at all.
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Old 4th September 2020, 11:28 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
No, it doesn't, because the consequences of it not working for me are not catastrophic.
Unless you think you're protecting yourself from something you're not. And then recommend the same thing to other people.
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Old 4th September 2020, 12:46 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
:shrug: if you're determined to take decisions about your health based on inadequate and unreliable information, it's your funeral. Possibly literally.
Lol! Funny, and dramatic.
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Old 4th September 2020, 01:13 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
We’re you taking vitamin C at the time?
Don't try to confuse *me,* buster! My mind was made up in 1959, and no damn sceptics or skeptics or whatever can unmake it now!

We're for were was a wierd typhoid, I must say. You feeling okay?
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Old 4th September 2020, 02:13 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
Congratulations, you posted a link disproving a claim not made by me! Impressive logic, and reading comprehension.
Fine. Now you provide a link to where the HNS says something about vitamin C mega-dosing being effect at doing anything.
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Old 19th September 2020, 03:11 PM   #94
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Edited by Agatha:  Edited material pertaining to original thread


Once the "pandemic" began, I started supplementing with Zinc, and Vitamin D. I started showing symptoms of it on the 4th of June, at which point I also began megadosing vitamin C. I had two non consecutive days of being miserable over the span of about two weeks, and then it passed. I regularly attend a casino cruise where no one wears masks, and everyone handles the same chips and breathes the same air, yet most of the regulars seem to be just fine, not even so much as any unusual hacking or coughing. I personally know of exactly one person, my friend's Godfather, who died of Covid-19 at the age of 94, undoubtedly with several co-morbidities. I am totally unafraid of this virus, and totally unhappy with the response, and the perpetuities going forward.

Edited by Agatha:  Edited material pertaining to original thread


Mod Info This post was copied from the thread about the Swedish response to the pandemic, and those that follow were moved from there where they responded to the Vitamin C discussion
Posted By:Agatha
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Last edited by Agatha; 20th September 2020 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 19th September 2020, 03:52 PM   #95
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That's already had to be split because of fanatics banging on about megadoses of vitamin C curing all viruses known to science as well as the ones science hasn't discovered yet.
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Old 19th September 2020, 03:57 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
That's already had to be split because of fanatics banging on about megadoses of vitamin C curing all viruses known to science as well as the ones science hasn't discovered yet.
<derail>

Don't most non-primate mammals make their own vitamin C?

I guess that's why all* these zoonotic viruses end up jumping to humans, because they couldn't survive in their original host.





*except for HIV and other viruses that came from primates
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Old 19th September 2020, 10:28 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
<derail>

Don't most non-primate mammals make their own vitamin C?

I guess that's why all* these zoonotic viruses end up jumping to humans, because they couldn't survive in their original host.





*except for HIV and other viruses that came from primates

They do, in fact there is an enzyme called l-gulonolactone oxidase which is inactive in primates and humans that is responsible for producing vitamin C. It is theorized that it was deselected 50,000 years ago due to issues with fruit, and starvation.

But that these alleged zoonotic viruses allegedly “jumped” to humans (in spite of Wuhan Institute of Virology whistleblower claims to the contrary) isn’t exclusive to the fact that the immune system enhancing antiviral properties of vitamin C in large doses wouldn’t necessarily preclude transmission by such a method. Since there is a window where the infected are contagious even if they end up either clearing, or succumbing to the virus (the latter of which, by the way, doesn’t seem to happen to the non-primate mammals with active l-gulonolactone oxidase who are capable of synthesizing their own vitamin C). Hmmmm, What is that mortality rate for those non-primate mammals infected with Covid, I wonder?


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Old 19th September 2020, 11:23 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
<derail>

Don't most non-primate mammals make their own vitamin C?

I guess that's why all* these zoonotic viruses end up jumping to humans, because they couldn't survive in their original host.


*except for HIV and other viruses that came from primates

Most of them, yes, but not fruit bats and some rodents:
Quote:
Most animals make their own vitamin C. Some mammals cannot. Those that cannot include the main suborder of primates, the Haplorrhini: these are the tarsiers, monkeys and apes, including humans. Others are bats, capybaras and guinea pigs.
Vitamin C (Simple Wiki)

But since SARS-CoV-2 can jump from people to cats, dogs and mink, I don't think your idea has much going for it.
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Old 20th September 2020, 02:44 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Most of them, yes, but not fruit bats and some rodents:



But since SARS-CoV-2 can jump from people to cats, dogs and mink, I don't think your idea has much going for it.
I had hoped the emoticon had indicated my sarcasm. And I had ensured I'd stated something that made no sense as well as there wouldn't have been any animal reservoir if it had been the case.

And it's not just SARS but the vast majority of zoonotic viral diseases.

Now one might say that maybe the animals hadn't evolved to produce megadoses of Vitamin C, just enough to prevent scurvy... but that would raise the question, "why not?" as there'd have been a strong selective pressure (immunity to viral disease) for that.
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Old 20th September 2020, 03:51 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Now one might say that maybe the animals hadn't evolved to produce megadoses of Vitamin C, just enough to prevent scurvy... but that would raise the question, "why not?" as there'd have been a strong selective pressure (immunity to viral disease) for that.

A valid argument against the Vit C megadose panacea.
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Old 21st September 2020, 11:21 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
Edited by Agatha:  Edited material pertaining to original thread


Once the "pandemic" began, I started supplementing with Zinc, and Vitamin D. I started showing symptoms of it on the 4th of June, at which point I also began megadosing vitamin C. I had two non consecutive days of being miserable over the span of about two weeks, and then it passed. I regularly attend a casino cruise where no one wears masks, and everyone handles the same chips and breathes the same air, yet most of the regulars seem to be just fine, not even so much as any unusual hacking or coughing. I personally know of exactly one person, my friend's Godfather, who died of Covid-19 at the age of 94, undoubtedly with several co-morbidities. I am totally unafraid of this virus, and totally unhappy with the response, and the perpetuities going forward.

Edited by Agatha:  Edited material pertaining to original thread


Mod Info This post was copied from the thread about the Swedish response to the pandemic, and those that follow were moved from there where they responded to the Vitamin C discussion
Posted By:Agatha
So, still malking the same dangerous, unevidenced claims, with irrelevant comments on why humans cannot produce Vit C themselves (gosh, you must be the first person to spot that! Well done, you!)?

Neither you nor anyone else knows if you had Corona virus, so stop claiming you did. You admit you had no sort of test, so you cannot know if you did. That alone makes everything else you claim utter bolleaux (aside from much of it is already known, from prior research'n'evidence'n'that, to be utter bolleaux).
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Old 22nd September 2020, 06:17 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King View Post
So, still malking the same dangerous, unevidenced claims, with irrelevant comments on why humans cannot produce Vit C themselves (gosh, you must be the first person to spot that! Well done, you!)?

Neither you nor anyone else knows if you had Corona virus, so stop claiming you did. You admit you had no sort of test, so you cannot know if you did. That alone makes everything else you claim utter bolleaux (aside from much of it is already known, from prior research'n'evidence'n'that, to be utter bolleaux).

Slow down, take a deep breath, you’re hyperbolic. First of all vitamin C even in massive doses, is not dangerous. Its ok, you can come out of your basement. Second, I was never interested in putting myself on some contact tracing DB, nor getting tested with dubious results (myriad false positives and negatives, if you’ve been paying attention). Since I planned on taking a naturopathic approach anyway, what would have been the point? To see a physician who would have dissuaded me? Third, I had severe headache, fever, and fatigue, viral symptoms which I’ve never experienced before, in the middle of a pandemic, after likely exposure on a cruise. What do you think the probability was that it was Covid? I’ve never before had viral symptoms giving me an unbearable headache. Fifth, even if it wasn’t Covid, the C megadosing undoubtedly mitigated and shortened the duration of the symptoms, which is consistent with my prior experiments with it, as compared to my viral infections before. My outcome was positive, regardless of exactly what I was infected with, and thats all that matters to me “mate”.


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Old 22nd September 2020, 08:39 AM   #103
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That wasn't hyperbole: you'll know when I use hyperbole. And you can pack in the patronising bits as well.

Yes, we all know Vit C is not dangerous: what is dangerous (why am I having to explain this?) is encouraging use of something which has repeatedly been shown not to work (that is mega-dosing with Vit C as an anti-viral) as a course of action against an infection which can be fatal. All you got was expensive urine, to borrow a phrase...

All your protestations about claimed symptoms do not mean a thing: you have not been tested; no-one knows what caused your claimed symptoms. I don't know what your exposure risk was and neither do you nor anyone else. I've had all of those symptoms before, but beyond thinking it was possibly some class of viral infection I couldn't, and wouldn't, say further. And, assuming you did have a viral infection, most are self-limiting, so without knowing which one it is you can't know if this was just the normal course of the disease.

This is a common reason why much alt med is dangerous: not because it is in and of itself harmful (see homeopathy as a good example), but because use of effective measures is discouraged...And folk like you seem intent on spreading FUD about conventional treatment and science generally. To which I will add that you have still not provided any of your wondrous evidence that mega-dosing has any effects (please don't mention your wiki page on that enzyme again, as it has no relevance here and lose one internet if Linus Pauling is mentioned).
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Old 22nd September 2020, 08:53 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
Slow down, take a deep breath, you’re hyperbolic.
Yes and you're spreading dangerously ignorant nonsense, so get off your moral high horse.

Hyperbole never killed anyone. Alt medicine has.
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Old 22nd September 2020, 10:19 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King View Post
That wasn't hyperbole: you'll know when I use hyperbole. And you can pack in the patronising bits as well.

Yes, we all know Vit C is not dangerous: what is dangerous (why am I having to explain this?) is encouraging use of something which has repeatedly been shown not to work (that is mega-dosing with Vit C as an anti-viral) as a course of action against an infection which can be fatal. All you got was expensive urine, to borrow a phrase...
Do you have evidence of that? Where has it been repeatedly shown not to work? Do you have any studies on megadosing vitamin C that fails to reject the null hypothesis? Oh. I know you didn't. So you're just spewing garbage.

Quote:

All your protestations about claimed symptoms do not mean a thing: you have not been tested; no-one knows what caused your claimed symptoms. I don't know what your exposure risk was and neither do you nor anyone else. I've had all of those symptoms before, but beyond thinking it was possibly some class of viral infection I couldn't, and wouldn't, say further. And, assuming you did have a viral infection, most are self-limiting, so without knowing which one it is you can't know if this was just the normal course of the disease.
This is possible, but it ignores my prior experience with other viral infections and megadose vitamin C, compared to those before that, without it. Since we both agree that vitamin C, and even megadosing vitamin C is harmless, then I have nothing to lose, even if my hypothesis is incorrect! This is simple logic, which apparently escapes you.

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This is a common reason why much alt med is dangerous: not because it is in and of itself harmful (see homeopathy as a good example), but because use of effective measures is discouraged...And folk like you seem intent on spreading FUD about conventional treatment and science generally. To which I will add that you have still not provided any of your wondrous evidence that mega-dosing has any effects (please don't mention your wiki page on that enzyme again, as it has no relevance here and lose one internet if Linus Pauling is mentioned).

I'm not talking about "alt med", I'm making very specific claims. Can you name the specific covid treatments that you think I, at great risk, avoided as a result of my decision? Was it a $3,000 treatment of Remdesivir? a $10 treatment of HCQ? A $10,000 hospital bill? Since the vast majority of the millions of people on planet earth who acquire this disease will simply ride out the symptoms at home, using home remedies, and since Vitamin C is harmless, your hyperbolic opposition is just an example of a clownish inability to use logic and reason. I didn't put myself in any danger. Neither from the vitamin C, nor from any treatment I would have otherwise received in lieu of it.
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Old 22nd September 2020, 10:32 AM   #106
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Oh, why bother...

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Old 22nd September 2020, 11:29 AM   #107
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If Vitamin C was so amazing at preventing viruses - WHY did primates lose the ability to synthesise megadose levels of it?

Why don't other animals synthesise megadose-levels of it? The selective pressure would be huge.

Why are viruses a problem?
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Old 22nd September 2020, 11:37 AM   #108
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OT: How about vitamin D for common colds? My colleagues keeps telling me I should start take it...But I'm sceptical.
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Old 22nd September 2020, 11:47 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Lennart Hyland View Post
OT: How about vitamin D for common colds? My colleagues keeps telling me I should start take it...But I'm sceptical.

Well, it’s clearly one more than vitamin C.
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Old 22nd September 2020, 12:07 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
If Vitamin C was so amazing at preventing viruses - WHY did primates lose the ability to synthesise megadose levels of it?

Why don't other animals synthesise megadose-levels of it? The selective pressure would be huge.

Why are viruses a problem?

Good question! The theory is that l-gulonolactone oxidase affected humans and certain primates ability to metabolize fruit, causing starvation, and so it was not selected. I’m sure viruses have always been a problem, but at that point in evolutionary history, nutrition was an even bigger problem.

As to why the other animals that do synthesize it don’t synthesize massive doses of it, I do not know the answer. If I had to speculate, its because they already synthesize roughly what they need.


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Old 22nd September 2020, 12:10 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Lennart Hyland View Post
OT: How about vitamin D for common colds? My colleagues keeps telling me I should start take it...But I'm sceptical.

Depending on your skin color, proximity to the equator, sun exposure, and diet, you may or may not want to consider supplementing with it, because it aids the immune system. You definitely do not want to megadose it, the RDA is probably sufficient.


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Old 22nd September 2020, 12:12 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Well, it’s clearly one more than vitamin C.

Haha! Yes! Vitamins are so silly. Why did anyone even bother naming them, right?

Psst. Can any one point me to the skeptics forum?


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Old 22nd September 2020, 12:20 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
Good question! The theory is that l-gulonolactone oxidase affected humans and certain primates ability to metabolize fruit, causing starvation, and so it was not selected. I’m sure viruses have always been a problem, but at that point in evolutionary history, nutrition was an even bigger problem.

As to why the other animals that do synthesize it don’t synthesize massive doses of it, I do not know the answer. If I had to speculate, its because they already synthesize roughly what they need.


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You are over thinking it. The ancestors of primates had a diet rich in vitamin C, so never needed to synthesise it, so there was no selective pressure in preserving the ability, any more than cave fish retained functioning genes for eyes.

Over time, mutations that prevented the synthesis of vitamin C had no deleterious impact, so were not selected out.

We know that pathogens have been very important in driving evolution - sickle cell genes and their relation to surviving malaria being the classic example.

So there would have been a massive selective pressure in favour of synthesising megadoses of vitamin C if megadoses were important in protecting against viruses. And viruses presumably would not have been a problem as they'd never get a foothold in a species that synthesised megadoses of vitamin C.
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Old 22nd September 2020, 12:46 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
You are over thinking it. The ancestors of primates had a diet rich in vitamin C, so never needed to synthesise it, so there was no selective pressure in preserving the ability, any more than cave fish retained functioning genes for eyes.
Your hypothesis seems reasonable enough, but animals and plants cannot live without vitamin C, so those that cannot synthesize it, must be able to obtain it from diet. You seem to be implying that it isn't life essential. The theory I quoted was not my own, it's from the l-gulonolactone oxidase wiki.

Quote:

Over time, mutations that prevented the synthesis of vitamin C had no deleterious impact, so were not selected out.

We know that pathogens have been very important in driving evolution - sickle cell genes and their relation to surviving malaria being the classic example.

So there would have been a massive selective pressure in favour of synthesising megadoses of vitamin C if megadoses were important in protecting against viruses. And viruses presumably would not have been a problem as they'd never get a foothold in a species that synthesised megadoses of vitamin C.
I think you have a slight misconception about how natural selection, as it applies to evolution, works. Natural selection as a result of genetic mutation is completely and utterly random. Whether or not selection occurs depends on whether or not the mutation is environmentally beneficial or not. That is, just because the ability to synthesize mega doses of vitamin C might carry selective pressure, does not mean that the necessary mutations would occur, would occur at the right time, or would occur at the right time in the right environment to the right species with a specific diet. If this were true, then a number of species would never have gone extinct!
This means that you cannot draw any meaningful conclusions about the efficacy of vitamin C megadosing from evolutionary history. You can't prove the null hypothesis (or any null hypothesis).

On the other hand, we know that the bats studied in the Wuhan Institute of Virology lab had the ability to suppress a large number of pathogens, and their ability to synthesize a crucial immuno-supportive vitamin was probably one of mryiad reasons why.
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Old 22nd September 2020, 01:03 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
Your hypothesis seems reasonable enough, but animals and plants cannot live without vitamin C, so those that cannot synthesize it, must be able to obtain it from diet. You seem to be implying that it isn't life essential.

What part of “the ancestors of primates had a diet rich in vitamin C, so never needed to synthesise it, so there was no selective pressure in preserving the ability” did you not understand?
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Old 22nd September 2020, 01:07 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
I think you have a slight misconception about how natural selection, as it applies to evolution, works. Natural selection as a result of genetic mutation is completely and utterly random.

From that last sentence, I think you haven’t the faintest idea what “natural selection” means.
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Old 22nd September 2020, 02:21 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
From that last sentence, I think you haven’t the faintest idea what “natural selection” means.

And you haven’t the faintest idea of the biological importance of vitamins and minerals, otherwise you wouldn’t have such a mocking, ignorant tone.

Genetic mutation is completely random and unpredictable, and selection depends upon an environment that is only somewhat less random, populated by competing species that are also subject to genetic mutation, which is again, random.


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Old 22nd September 2020, 02:55 PM   #118
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And the part about the strongest, most apt for the environment survive and reproduce?

The mutatations can be harmful or beneficial, one will survive easier. But totally random leaves out influenced by the enviorment, or does it include that?
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Old 22nd September 2020, 03:06 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
<derail>

Don't most non-primate mammals make their own vitamin C?

I guess that's why all* these zoonotic viruses end up jumping to humans, because they couldn't survive in their original host.
Yeah, it's basically us, some monkeys and guinea pigs (and a few outliers). If ascorbic acid was a miracle cure it'd been seen before now.

Interestingly, due to unscientific bollocks regarding scurvy (VC deficiency) the condition made a return in the late nineteenth/early twentieth centuries, e.g. Scott in the antarctic.
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Old 22nd September 2020, 03:13 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
Slow down, take a deep breath, you’re hyperbolic.
As opposed to your unscientific bollocks and conspiratorial nonsense?

Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
First of all vitamin C even in massive doses, is not dangerous.
Untrue. It does have harmful effects. They're rarely serious, but why bother as megadosing has no benefits?

Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
Its ok, you can come out of your basement.


Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
Second, I was never interested in putting myself on some contact tracing DB,
More conspiratorial posturing I see.

Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
nor getting tested with dubious results (myriad false positives and negatives,
Bollocks, as usual for you.

Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
Since I planned on taking a naturopathic approach anyway, what would have been the point?
Perhaps you should sit under a pyramid?

Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
To see a physician who would have dissuaded me?
Well yes, but you've obviously abandoned any pretense of science.

Originally Posted by Tippit View Post
Third, I had severe headache, fever, and fatigue, viral symptoms which I’ve never experienced before, in the middle of a pandemic, after likely exposure on a cruise. What do you think the probability was that it was Covid?
Given the number of other possible causes? Quite high actually.
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