The Biden Presidency - Page 49

Delphic Oracle · 20th February 2021, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by Caroline13

Oh I've posted articles that we are close to Herd Immunity or already in it. The pandemic could be over, but the politicians want to keep it alive and keep all the sheep in fear and jabbed.

What happened to working on one's HEALTH??????

You've posted claims. More people making the same claims while not providing any more evidence doesn't change anything.

Getting vaccinated against a potentially deadly disease at pandemic proportions is "working on one's health" and does not preclude other activities that are healthy.

beachnut · 20th February 2021, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by Caroline13

Right now as I see it, we are living the New Norm as long as Biden/Harris and their crew are in charge. Masks, distancing, no get togethers, lockdowns = prison, and on and on.

Now I'm hearing Harris is doing more and more of the Presidential interactions....ummmm

Which was in place during the last president who lied about the virus. You don't seem to know the topic of this thread.

Originally Posted by Caroline13

Oh I've posted articles that we are close to Herd Immunity or already in it. The pandemic could be over, but the politicians want to keep it alive and keep all the sheep in fear and jabbed.

What happened to working on one's HEALTH??????

Do you have a source for "politicians what to keep it alive"? No

And what does this have to do with the Topic? The Biden Presidency

Aridas · 20th February 2021, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by Caroline13

Oh I've posted articles that we are close to Herd Immunity or already in it.

Correction - you posted links to claims that don't really work so well, unless you're invoking the altered and dramatically weaker version of herd immunity where any hint of effect due to reduced infectable population counts as reaching herd immunity. With the vaccines, we are much more quickly approaching the point where the most vulnerable groups to harm are dramatically less vulnerable in general, though that's fairly certainly a bit different from the fairly certainly misused version of "herd immunity being claimed by your anti-vax sources.

Originally Posted by Caroline13

The pandemic could be over, but the politicians want to keep it alive and keep all the sheep in fear and jabbed.

What happened to working on one's HEALTH??????

You mean, that thing that Republicans keep working really hard to undermine for all but the very rich in a plethora of ways and Democrats keep trying to make better across the board? Yeah, that situation hasn't changed.

Aridas · 20th February 2021, 04:34 PM

In other news... Virginia's GOP has had something that perhaps shouldn't be surprising happen.

Quote:

The Republican Party of Virginia has voted four times since December to nominate its candidates for this year’s statewide races at a convention instead of in a primary election. But in a sign of the Trumpian times of denial and dispute in the G.O.P., nearly half of the party’s top officials keep trying to reverse the results and get a primary.

The refusal of these Republicans to admit they have lost, or to agree on a set of nominating rules, has fractured a state party already in upheaval: Republicans haven’t won a statewide election since 2009, and they now find themselves with legislative minorities for the first time in a generation. Even the broken windows at the state party’s Richmond headquarters haven’t been fixed for months.

Trump may have loudly led the way, but he's not even remotely alone and the effects aren't even remotely gone.

varwoche · 20th February 2021, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by Caroline13

Right now as I see it, we are living the New Norm as long as Biden/Harris and their crew are in charge. Masks, distancing, no get togethers, lockdowns = prison, and on and on.

Now I'm hearing Harris is doing more and more of the Presidential interactions....ummmm

What specifically do you personally observe that leads you to this conclusion? And how do these observations differ compared to one month ago?

Mind you, I'm not interested in whatever inane things you've read on the internet. First hand observations please.

Paul2 · 20th February 2021, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by mgidm86

I don't think the federal minimum wage is a good place to look for solving income equality.

A federal minimum wage that is a flat value (say $15/hour) is going to yield very different results in each state.

Maybe that is why it is so low now?

In Silicon Valley, Cali, $15 an hour is barely enough to rent a bedroom from somebody, if it is at all. You are struggling and living paycheck to paycheck, and you better have no kids. If you need any car repairs at all you are in trouble.

In some other areas of the country that same wage goes a whole lot farther. Even some areas in Cali are very different.

Rent is half price just 2 hours from here. The businesses in areas where the dollar goes farther won't be able to pay that $15 amount.

The various economies are too different for a federal minimum wage that is anything but very low.

The states need to take care of their people. Either that or have an adjustable federal wage that allows for different local economies. A $15 minimum wage wouldn't change anything in California. In my area the minimum is actually slightly higher than that.

A $15 minimum wage will give some people in California more money. The perfect is not the enemy of the good.

acbytesla · 20th February 2021, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by mgidm86

I don't think the federal minimum wage is a good place to look for solving income equality.

A federal minimum wage that is a flat value (say $15/hour) is going to yield very different results in each state.

Maybe that is why it is so low now?

In Silicon Valley, Cali, $15 an hour is barely enough to rent a bedroom from somebody, if it is at all. You are struggling and living paycheck to paycheck, and you better have no kids. If you need any car repairs at all you are in trouble.

In some other areas of the country that same wage goes a whole lot farther. Even some areas in Cali are very different.

Rent is half price just 2 hours from here. The businesses in areas where the dollar goes farther won't be able to pay that $15 amount.

The various economies are too different for a federal minimum wage that is anything but very low.

The states need to take care of their people. Either that or have an adjustable federal wage that allows for different local economies. A $15 minimum wage wouldn't change anything in California. In my area the minimum is actually slightly higher than that.

Raising the minimum wage increases wages across the board, not just those earning it. This is a fact. And the biggest problem facing this country today is that workers are underpaid while business owners and stockholders cash in.

You just pointed out why it necessary to raise the minimum wage nationwide. The states in particular in many locales refuse to raise the minimum wage as they are bought off by employers who want to pay as low a wage as they can as that means more for them.

If your business only exists by paying subsistence wages, maybe you shouldn't be in business.

Horatius · 21st February 2021, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

If your business only exists by paying subsistence wages, maybe you shouldn't be in business.

I always liked Chris Rock's take on minimum wage:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

ChrisBFRPKY · 22nd February 2021, 07:00 AM

Meanwhile oil prices have risen from $25 a barrel to $62 during President Biden's first month in office. Yay?

Darat · 22nd February 2021, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Meanwhile oil prices have risen from $25 a barrel to $62 during President Biden's first month in office. Yay?

Wasn’t that the former guy’s policy - wanting oil prices higher? Not heard what the current guy has said. What has he said?

kookbreaker · 22nd February 2021, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Meanwhile oil prices have risen from $25 a barrel to $62 during President Biden's first month in office. Yay?

Stop lying.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...cy/6798510002/

Oil hasn’t been 25$ a barrel since April.

dirtywick · 22nd February 2021, 07:31 AM

maybe these fracking companies might make enough money to stay in business

ChrisBFRPKY · 22nd February 2021, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by kookbreaker

Stop lying.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...cy/6798510002/

Oil hasn’t been 25$ a barrel since April.

Stop lying, it was May.

Great fact check link BTW

"The claim that oil prices had jumped from about $25 a barrel when Joe Biden became president to more than $61 a barrel now is FALSE. While prices have increased since Jan. 20, crude oil already was trading at more than $53 a barrel at that time."

It's only increased by a measly 15% in the past 30 days.

Yay?

ChrisBFRPKY · 22nd February 2021, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by dirtywick

maybe these fracking companies might make enough money to stay in business

You mean the old fracking companies? I remember somebody saying "No new fracking." I'll admit I really don't know whether President Biden is for or against fracking. I heard so many different views expressed on fracking by Biden it could go either way.

If you're FOR something AND against it, seems like you're covered either way.

Pixel42 · 22nd February 2021, 07:53 AM

The more expensive oil is the more incentive people have to switch to alternatives. So yes. Yay.

kookbreaker · 22nd February 2021, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Stop lying, it was May.

May 2020 is a lot closer to April 2020 than January 2021 is.

Quote:

Great fact check link BTW

"The claim that oil prices had jumped from about $25 a barrel when Joe Biden became president to more than $61 a barrel now is FALSE. While prices have increased since Jan. 20, crude oil already was trading at more than $53 a barrel at that time."

It's only increased by a measly 15% in the past 30 days.

Yay?

Golly. Oil prices go up in a harsh winter. Go figure.

Your little gotcha meme-based attack on the President has some rather diminishing returns: one moment its all "oIl pRiCeS DoUblEd iN bIdEN's fIRst mOnTH!" to "oh noes!! everyone get super-dooper concerned about a 15% price increase in a harsh winter".

Its rather pathetic really. Maybe don't get your political and economic info from memes?

acbytesla · 22nd February 2021, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Meanwhile oil prices have risen from $25 a barrel to $62 during President Biden's first month in office. Yay?

You do understand that had to happen don't you? This is a response to increased demand. At $25 a barrel the oil companies were selling below cost. What was the price per barrel before the pandemic?

Interesting, i didn't read the rest of the thread which demonstrated that determined again why you shouldn't rely on the news sources that you frequent.

There was no way the price of oil was going to stay at $25 a barrel. The price of a barrel of light oil today is hovering around the average price for oil for all of 2019. Even at $65, the price is low. FYI, the price in 1980 was $35 a barrel which is the equivalent of $110 today.

Personally, I expect oil prices to continue to rise.

This has little to do with who POTUS is. Production was dramatically slowed as a result of the pandemic. More wells were capped then opened. The oil companies even asked for government funds to help them cap wells, if demand continues to rise as is expected prices will go up.

CapelDodger · 22nd February 2021, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Meanwhile oil prices have risen from $25 a barrel to $62 during President Biden's first month in office. Yay?

Could you sketch out the causal chain between Biden's presidency and the global oil price? What has he done or said which has had this worldwide impact?

CapelDodger · 22nd February 2021, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

You mean the old fracking companies? I remember somebody saying "No new fracking." I'll admit I really don't know whether President Biden is for or against fracking. I heard so many different views expressed on fracking by Biden it could go either way.

No you haven't.

Quote:

If you're FOR something AND against it, seems like you're covered either way.

How is a rising oil-price evidence that Biden is for fracking?

Sherman Bay · 22nd February 2021, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Meanwhile oil prices have risen from $25 a barrel to $62 during President Biden's first month in office. Yay?

Obviously, there's a cause & effect here. The question is, has Biden caused the rise, or is he benefiting from it?

In other news, the price of rum in Havana is up, as are the salaries of Presbyterian ministers in Massachusetts. Which is the cause, and who benefits?

CapelDodger · 22nd February 2021, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by kookbreaker

Golly. Oil prices go up in a harsh winter. Go figure.

Lets not forget that the oil market is global. Short-term weather events in the US have very little impact on it.

kookbreaker · 22nd February 2021, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by Sherman Bay

Obviously, there's a cause & effect here. The question is, has Biden caused the rise, or is he benefiting from it?

In other news, the price of rum in Havana is up, as are the salaries of Presbyterian ministers in Massachusetts. Which is the cause, and who benefits?

Oil was not $25 a barrel in January. Don’t play into the flagrant lie.

acbytesla · 22nd February 2021, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by Sherman Bay

Obviously, there's a cause & effect here. The question is, has Biden caused the rise, or is he benefiting from it?

In other news, the price of rum in Havana is up, as are the salaries of Presbyterian ministers in Massachusetts. Which is the cause, and who benefits?

Obviously someone claims there's a cause and an effect. But is there one? Maybe, but I think it is impossible to prove. Perfect example of the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. Just because one event follows another does not mean there is a causal link betweenthe two.

We were all taught in Economics 101 how prices are directly related to supply and demand or more accurately perceived supply and demand. In April, the bottom fell out of travel which in turn resulted in falling prices for energy with transportation fuel prices taking the biggest hit. In April of last year, you could hardly give away a barrel of oil. In fact, the price for a barrel of light crude at one point was negative $35 a barrel. It rebounded to around $40 a barrel pretty quickly and slowly increased for the last 10 months. The price today is about what it was pre-pandemic. I expect it to go higher because the oil companies have been losing money and they are going to be more conservative.

The fracking boom is mostly over as much of it was fools gold. Fracking would result in increased oil production, but those increases were costly and didn't last. The energy markets are likely to be volatile for a while.

Delvo · 22nd February 2021, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

In April, the bottom fell out of travel which in turn resulted in falling prices for energy with transportation fuel prices taking the biggest hit.

So you're saying that, by making the plague more severe than it would have been without him, Trump did lower the prices!

acbytesla · 22nd February 2021, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by Delvo

So you're saying that, by making the plague more severe than it would have been without him, Trump did lower the prices!

You could say that. Maybe.

Still, I'd argue that the Trump presidency was the worst economic disaster this country has faced since WW2 and the Great Depression. Trump's incompetence and his attacks on our government will inevitably cost the country at least 5 trillion dollars andprobably more than that. I say that because of the necessary stimulus packages as well as confidence from abroad. America is the wealthiest nation on the planet for many reasons, but one of the reasons is confidence from investors abroad. Foreign countries and nationals invest in the US because they rely on us to be dependable. Trump threatens that reliability.

Then there is the fact that Trump threatens our lives. His failure of dealing with the pandemic has resulted in average US life expectancy to fall an entire year. The life expectancy for minorities dropped an average of 3 years.

Almost anyone would have been better than Trump. Biden is so far proving he's better than just anyone. Still, it is early.

Captain_Swoop · 22nd February 2021, 09:07 PM

Lauren Boebert tweets

@laurenboebert
The lids are back on! Don’t you miss having a President who worked tirelessly?

Quote Tweet
Kelly O'Donnell
@KellyO
White House has called a “lid” for this Sunday so no expected events or public activities by the president.

acbytesla · 22nd February 2021, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Lauren Boebert tweets

@laurenboebert
The lids are back on! Don’t you miss having a President who worked tirelessly?

Quote Tweet
Kelly O'Donnell
@KellyO
White House has called a “lid” for this Sunday so no expected events or public activities by the president.

She can't be serious. No POTUS in history kept a lighter schedule than Trump.

Craig4 · 22nd February 2021, 09:52 PM

Originally Posted by kookbreaker

Oil was not $25 a barrel in January. Don’t play into the flagrant lie.

Biden has done nothing to impact the cost of oil yet. Texas on the other hand, the cluster **** there is impacting production. There are other factors at play but in the US spikes in demand due to weather and weather impact on supply are driving up costs.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Pric...en-Supply.html

gregthehammer · 22nd February 2021, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

She can't be serious. No POTUS in history kept a lighter schedule than Trump.

Is she serious? Well, was she sitting in front of her haphazard collection of guns when she tweeted? Is so, she was dead serious. DEAD SERIOUS!

gnome · 23rd February 2021, 04:32 AM

Tirelessly trolling the press and opponents isn't "working"

SuburbanTurkey · 23rd February 2021, 06:04 AM

Really starting to question the wisdom of campaigning on "$2000 immediately" when it's turning out to be neither $2000 or immediate.

The delay and tedious means means testing aren't Biden's fault, but rather that of the legislature, but Biden still ends up getting the blame as head of the party. Seems to me that the Democratic party should have made the $2000 checks their day one priority, or at least not politically messaged in such a way that people thought cash relief would be coming quickly.

The Great Zaganza · 23rd February 2021, 06:14 AM

I agree.

"as fast as possible" isn't the same as "immediately", especially not in Washington.

ChrisBFRPKY · 23rd February 2021, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by CapelDodger

No you haven't.

How is a rising oil-price evidence that Biden is for fracking?

Yes I have. I'll add a video link for you to hear the same. Further, it's rather presumptuous to claim you can know what someone has or has not heard. Or were you planning an attempt at the million dollar psychic power challenge?
I think that has been cancelled though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4_2ynjacFI

For or against? I'd like to know.

ChrisBFRPKY · 23rd February 2021, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by kookbreaker

Oil was not $25 a barrel in January. Don’t play into the flagrant lie.

Agreed this is true. The price of oil only increased 15% during Biden's first month in office.

kookbreaker · 23rd February 2021, 06:33 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Agreed this is true. The price of oil only increased 15% during Biden's first month in office.

So do you retract your attack on Biden where you falsely claimed an oil price rise of over 100+% in a single month?

SuburbanTurkey · 23rd February 2021, 06:39 AM

If you think about it, the price of oil has increased by infinity % since they hit $0 in April. Explain that, libs!

Stop taking the bait. Nobody proposing this as a "gotcha" for Biden is doing so in good faith. They're just ****-posting (an activity I very much respect).

wareyin · 23rd February 2021, 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

If you think about it, the price of oil has increased by infinity % since they hit $0 in April. Explain that, libs!

Stop taking the bait. Nobody proposing this as a "gotcha" for Biden is doing so in good faith. They're just ****-posting (an activity I very much respect).

Indeed. Similarly, nobody claiming that Biden promised $2k immediately is making that claim in good faith.

SuburbanTurkey · 23rd February 2021, 06:56 AM

Originally Posted by wareyin

Indeed. Similarly, nobody claiming that Biden promised $2k immediately is making that claim in good faith.

I guess Biden himself was speaking in bad faith here:

Quote:

During his speech in Atlanta, Biden promised that if Warnock and Ossoff won the runoffs, "that money will go out the door immediately to help people who are in real trouble."

https://www.businessinsider.com/bide...diately-2021-1

Not everyone is a politics hobbyist like us people posting on the forum. I think a significant portion of the population would not consider over a month later "immediately", even if that's what is realistic given the political limitations.

Again, I don't really see this as a broken campaign promise, more as a failure of messaging and managing expectations. There was definitely the perception that this is something that would happen swiftly if the Democrats won.

wareyin · 23rd February 2021, 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

I guess Biden himself was speaking in bad faith here:

https://www.businessinsider.com/bide...diately-2021-1

Not everyone is a politics hobbyist like us people posting on the forum. I think a significant portion of the population would not consider over a month later "immediately", even if that's what is realistic given the political limitations.

Again, I don't really see this as a broken campaign promise, more as a failure of messaging and managing expectations. There was definitely the perception that this is something that would happen swiftly if the Democrats won, which is probably something that was not realistic.

When the direct quotes don't say what you and the article are claiming, and what you and the article are claiming contradicts everything else, I'll take "bad faith spin" for $600 Alex.

SuburbanTurkey · 23rd February 2021, 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by wareyin

When the direct quotes don't say what you and the article are claiming, and what you and the article are claiming contradicts everything else, I'll take "bad faith spin" for $600 Alex.

i'm struggling to come to a different understanding on what was meant to be communicated here.

From the transcript:

Originally Posted by Joe Biden

By electing Jon and the Reverend, you can make an immediate difference in your own lives, the lives of the people all across this country. Because their election will put an end to the block in Washington, that $2000 stimulus check, that money would go out the door immediately, to help people who are in real trouble. Think about what it will mean to your lives, putting food on the table, paying rent

https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts...ock-jon-ossoff

20th February 2021, 04:06 PM	#1922
beachnut Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Dog House Posts: 25,834	Originally Posted by Caroline13 Right now as I see it, we are living the New Norm as long as Biden/Harris and their crew are in charge. Masks, distancing, no get togethers, lockdowns = prison, and on and on. Now I'm hearing Harris is doing more and more of the Presidential interactions....ummmm Which was in place during the last president who lied about the virus. You don't seem to know the topic of this thread. Originally Posted by Caroline13 Oh I've posted articles that we are close to Herd Immunity or already in it. The pandemic could be over, but the politicians want to keep it alive and keep all the sheep in fear and jabbed. What happened to working on one's HEALTH?????? Do you have a source for "politicians what to keep it alive"? No And what does this have to do with the Topic? The Biden Presidency
	__________________ "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen" - Albert Einstein "... education as the means of developing our greatest abilities" - JFK https://folding.stanford.edu/ fold with your computer - join team 13232

20th February 2021, 04:22 PM	#1923
Aridas Crazy Little Green Dragon Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 7,447	Originally Posted by Caroline13 Oh I've posted articles that we are close to Herd Immunity or already in it. Correction - you posted links to claims that don't really work so well, unless you're invoking the altered and dramatically weaker version of herd immunity where any hint of effect due to reduced infectable population counts as reaching herd immunity. With the vaccines, we are much more quickly approaching the point where the most vulnerable groups to harm are dramatically less vulnerable in general, though that's fairly certainly a bit different from the fairly certainly misused version of "herd immunity being claimed by your anti-vax sources. Originally Posted by Caroline13 The pandemic could be over, but the politicians want to keep it alive and keep all the sheep in fear and jabbed. What happened to working on one's HEALTH?????? You mean, that thing that Republicans keep working really hard to undermine for all but the very rich in a plethora of ways and Democrats keep trying to make better across the board? Yeah, that situation hasn't changed.
	__________________ So sayeth the crazy little dragon.

20th February 2021, 04:34 PM	#1924
Aridas Crazy Little Green Dragon Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 7,447	In other news... Virginia's GOP has had something that perhaps shouldn't be surprising happen. Quote: The Republican Party of Virginia has voted four times since December to nominate its candidates for this year’s statewide races at a convention instead of in a primary election. But in a sign of the Trumpian times of denial and dispute in the G.O.P., nearly half of the party’s top officials keep trying to reverse the results and get a primary. The refusal of these Republicans to admit they have lost, or to agree on a set of nominating rules, has fractured a state party already in upheaval: Republicans haven’t won a statewide election since 2009, and they now find themselves with legislative minorities for the first time in a generation. Even the broken windows at the state party’s Richmond headquarters haven’t been fixed for months. Trump may have loudly led the way, but he's not even remotely alone and the effects aren't even remotely gone.
	__________________ So sayeth the crazy little dragon.

20th February 2021, 05:07 PM	#1925
varwoche Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 15,415	Originally Posted by Caroline13 Right now as I see it, we are living the New Norm as long as Biden/Harris and their crew are in charge. Masks, distancing, no get togethers, lockdowns = prison, and on and on. Now I'm hearing Harris is doing more and more of the Presidential interactions....ummmm What specifically do you personally observe that leads you to this conclusion? And how do these observations differ compared to one month ago? Mind you, I'm not interested in whatever inane things you've read on the internet. First hand observations please.
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20th February 2021, 05:35 PM	#1926
Paul2 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,587	Originally Posted by mgidm86 I don't think the federal minimum wage is a good place to look for solving income equality. A federal minimum wage that is a flat value (say $15/hour) is going to yield very different results in each state. Maybe that is why it is so low now? In Silicon Valley, Cali, $15 an hour is barely enough to rent a bedroom from somebody, if it is at all. You are struggling and living paycheck to paycheck, and you better have no kids. If you need any car repairs at all you are in trouble. In some other areas of the country that same wage goes a whole lot farther. Even some areas in Cali are very different. Rent is half price just 2 hours from here. The businesses in areas where the dollar goes farther won't be able to pay that $15 amount. The various economies are too different for a federal minimum wage that is anything but very low. The states need to take care of their people. Either that or have an adjustable federal wage that allows for different local economies. A $15 minimum wage wouldn't change anything in California. In my area the minimum is actually slightly higher than that. A $15 minimum wage will give some people in California more money. The perfect is not the enemy of the good.
Paul2 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,587	__________________ It's nice to be nice to the nice. Aristotle, so far as I know, was the first man to proclaim explicitly that man is a rational animal. His reason for this view was one which does not now seem very impressive: it was, that some people can do sums. - Bertrand Russell

20th February 2021, 04:03 PM	#1921
Delphic Oracle Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 5,352	Originally Posted by Caroline13 Oh I've posted articles that we are close to Herd Immunity or already in it. The pandemic could be over, but the politicians want to keep it alive and keep all the sheep in fear and jabbed. What happened to working on one's HEALTH?????? You've posted claims. More people making the same claims while not providing any more evidence doesn't change anything. Getting vaccinated against a potentially deadly disease at pandemic proportions is "working on one's health" and does not preclude other activities that are healthy.

20th February 2021, 06:44 PM	#1927
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,238	Originally Posted by mgidm86 I don't think the federal minimum wage is a good place to look for solving income equality. A federal minimum wage that is a flat value (say $15/hour) is going to yield very different results in each state. Maybe that is why it is so low now? In Silicon Valley, Cali, $15 an hour is barely enough to rent a bedroom from somebody, if it is at all. You are struggling and living paycheck to paycheck, and you better have no kids. If you need any car repairs at all you are in trouble. In some other areas of the country that same wage goes a whole lot farther. Even some areas in Cali are very different. Rent is half price just 2 hours from here. The businesses in areas where the dollar goes farther won't be able to pay that $15 amount. The various economies are too different for a federal minimum wage that is anything but very low. The states need to take care of their people. Either that or have an adjustable federal wage that allows for different local economies. A $15 minimum wage wouldn't change anything in California. In my area the minimum is actually slightly higher than that. Raising the minimum wage increases wages across the board, not just those earning it. This is a fact. And the biggest problem facing this country today is that workers are underpaid while business owners and stockholders cash in. You just pointed out why it necessary to raise the minimum wage nationwide. The states in particular in many locales refuse to raise the minimum wage as they are bought off by employers who want to pay as low a wage as they can as that means more for them. If your business only exists by paying subsistence wages, maybe you shouldn't be in business.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . Last edited by acbytesla; 20th February 2021 at 06:59 PM.

22nd February 2021, 07:00 AM	#1929
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,662	Meanwhile oil prices have risen from $25 a barrel to $62 during President Biden's first month in office. Yay?
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,662

22nd February 2021, 07:12 AM	#1930
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 96,954	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Meanwhile oil prices have risen from $25 a barrel to $62 during President Biden's first month in office. Yay? Wasn’t that the former guy’s policy - wanting oil prices higher? Not heard what the current guy has said. What has he said?
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

22nd February 2021, 07:27 AM	#1931
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 13,169	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Meanwhile oil prices have risen from $25 a barrel to $62 during President Biden's first month in office. Yay? Stop lying. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...cy/6798510002/ Oil hasn’t been 25$ a barrel since April.
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22nd February 2021, 07:31 AM	#1932
dirtywick Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,121	maybe these fracking companies might make enough money to stay in business
dirtywick Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,121

22nd February 2021, 07:48 AM	#1933
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,662	Originally Posted by kookbreaker Stop lying. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...cy/6798510002/ Oil hasn’t been 25$ a barrel since April. Stop lying, it was May. Great fact check link BTW "The claim that oil prices had jumped from about $25 a barrel when Joe Biden became president to more than $61 a barrel now is FALSE. While prices have increased since Jan. 20, crude oil already was trading at more than $53 a barrel at that time." It's only increased by a measly 15% in the past 30 days. Yay?
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,662

22nd February 2021, 07:53 AM	#1934
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,662	Originally Posted by dirtywick maybe these fracking companies might make enough money to stay in business You mean the old fracking companies? I remember somebody saying "No new fracking." I'll admit I really don't know whether President Biden is for or against fracking. I heard so many different views expressed on fracking by Biden it could go either way. If you're FOR something AND against it, seems like you're covered either way.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,662

22nd February 2021, 07:53 AM	#1935
Pixel42 Schrödinger's cat Join Date: May 2004 Location: Malmesbury, UK Posts: 12,998	The more expensive oil is the more incentive people have to switch to alternatives. So yes. Yay.
	__________________ "If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett

22nd February 2021, 08:04 AM	#1936
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 13,169	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Stop lying, it was May. May 2020 is a lot closer to April 2020 than January 2021 is. Quote: Great fact check link BTW "The claim that oil prices had jumped from about $25 a barrel when Joe Biden became president to more than $61 a barrel now is FALSE. While prices have increased since Jan. 20, crude oil already was trading at more than $53 a barrel at that time." It's only increased by a measly 15% in the past 30 days. Yay? Golly. Oil prices go up in a harsh winter. Go figure. Your little gotcha meme-based attack on the President has some rather diminishing returns: one moment its all "oIl pRiCeS DoUblEd iN bIdEN's fIRst mOnTH!" to "oh noes!! everyone get super-dooper concerned about a 15% price increase in a harsh winter". Its rather pathetic really. Maybe don't get your political and economic info from memes?
	__________________ www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- My store of science toys, instruments and general fun! Thanks for helping me win Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011,2012, and 2014! We won' be discussing the disappointment that was 2013.

22nd February 2021, 11:34 AM	#1937
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,238	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Meanwhile oil prices have risen from $25 a barrel to $62 during President Biden's first month in office. Yay? You do understand that had to happen don't you? This is a response to increased demand. At $25 a barrel the oil companies were selling below cost. What was the price per barrel before the pandemic? Interesting, i didn't read the rest of the thread which demonstrated that determined again why you shouldn't rely on the news sources that you frequent. There was no way the price of oil was going to stay at $25 a barrel. The price of a barrel of light oil today is hovering around the average price for oil for all of 2019. Even at $65, the price is low. FYI, the price in 1980 was $35 a barrel which is the equivalent of $110 today. Personally, I expect oil prices to continue to rise. This has little to do with who POTUS is. Production was dramatically slowed as a result of the pandemic. More wells were capped then opened. The oil companies even asked for government funds to help them cap wells, if demand continues to rise as is expected prices will go up.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . Last edited by acbytesla; 22nd February 2021 at 11:59 AM.

22nd February 2021, 05:04 PM	#1938
CapelDodger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cardiff, South Wales Posts: 25,052	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Meanwhile oil prices have risen from $25 a barrel to $62 during President Biden's first month in office. Yay? Could you sketch out the causal chain between Biden's presidency and the global oil price? What has he done or said which has had this worldwide impact?
	__________________ It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150

22nd February 2021, 05:07 PM	#1939
CapelDodger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cardiff, South Wales Posts: 25,052	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY You mean the old fracking companies? I remember somebody saying "No new fracking." I'll admit I really don't know whether President Biden is for or against fracking. I heard so many different views expressed on fracking by Biden it could go either way. No you haven't. Quote: If you're FOR something AND against it, seems like you're covered either way. How is a rising oil-price evidence that Biden is for fracking?
	__________________ It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150

22nd February 2021, 05:13 PM	#1940
Sherman Bay Master Poster Join Date: May 2002 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 2,331	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Meanwhile oil prices have risen from $25 a barrel to $62 during President Biden's first month in office. Yay? Obviously, there's a cause & effect here. The question is, has Biden caused the rise, or is he benefiting from it? In other news, the price of rum in Havana is up, as are the salaries of Presbyterian ministers in Massachusetts. Which is the cause, and who benefits?

22nd February 2021, 05:15 PM	#1941
CapelDodger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cardiff, South Wales Posts: 25,052	Originally Posted by kookbreaker Golly. Oil prices go up in a harsh winter. Go figure. Lets not forget that the oil market is global. Short-term weather events in the US have very little impact on it.
	__________________ It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150

22nd February 2021, 06:57 PM	#1942
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 13,169	Originally Posted by Sherman Bay Obviously, there's a cause & effect here. The question is, has Biden caused the rise, or is he benefiting from it? In other news, the price of rum in Havana is up, as are the salaries of Presbyterian ministers in Massachusetts. Which is the cause, and who benefits? Oil was not $25 a barrel in January. Don’t play into the flagrant lie.
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22nd February 2021, 07:51 PM	#1943
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,238	Originally Posted by Sherman Bay Obviously, there's a cause & effect here. The question is, has Biden caused the rise, or is he benefiting from it? In other news, the price of rum in Havana is up, as are the salaries of Presbyterian ministers in Massachusetts. Which is the cause, and who benefits? Obviously someone claims there's a cause and an effect. But is there one? Maybe, but I think it is impossible to prove. Perfect example of the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. Just because one event follows another does not mean there is a causal link betweenthe two. We were all taught in Economics 101 how prices are directly related to supply and demand or more accurately perceived supply and demand. In April, the bottom fell out of travel which in turn resulted in falling prices for energy with transportation fuel prices taking the biggest hit. In April of last year, you could hardly give away a barrel of oil. In fact, the price for a barrel of light crude at one point was negative $35 a barrel. It rebounded to around $40 a barrel pretty quickly and slowly increased for the last 10 months. The price today is about what it was pre-pandemic. I expect it to go higher because the oil companies have been losing money and they are going to be more conservative. The fracking boom is mostly over as much of it was fools gold. Fracking would result in increased oil production, but those increases were costly and didn't last. The energy markets are likely to be volatile for a while.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

22nd February 2021, 08:31 PM	#1944
Delvo Дэлво Δελϝο דֶלְבֹֿ देल्वो Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: North Tonawanda, NY Posts: 9,291	Originally Posted by acbytesla In April, the bottom fell out of travel which in turn resulted in falling prices for energy with transportation fuel prices taking the biggest hit. So you're saying that, by making the plague more severe than it would have been without him, Trump did lower the prices!

22nd February 2021, 09:01 PM	#1945
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,238	Originally Posted by Delvo So you're saying that, by making the plague more severe than it would have been without him, Trump did lower the prices! You could say that. Maybe. Still, I'd argue that the Trump presidency was the worst economic disaster this country has faced since WW2 and the Great Depression. Trump's incompetence and his attacks on our government will inevitably cost the country at least 5 trillion dollars andprobably more than that. I say that because of the necessary stimulus packages as well as confidence from abroad. America is the wealthiest nation on the planet for many reasons, but one of the reasons is confidence from investors abroad. Foreign countries and nationals invest in the US because they rely on us to be dependable. Trump threatens that reliability. Then there is the fact that Trump threatens our lives. His failure of dealing with the pandemic has resulted in average US life expectancy to fall an entire year. The life expectancy for minorities dropped an average of 3 years. Almost anyone would have been better than Trump. Biden is so far proving he's better than just anyone. Still, it is early.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

22nd February 2021, 09:07 PM	#1946
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 31,870	Lauren Boebert tweets @laurenboebert The lids are back on! Don’t you miss having a President who worked tirelessly? Quote Tweet Kelly O'Donnell @KellyO White House has called a “lid” for this Sunday so no expected events or public activities by the president.

22nd February 2021, 09:39 PM	#1947
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,238	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Lauren Boebert tweets @laurenboebert The lids are back on! Don’t you miss having a President who worked tirelessly? Quote Tweet Kelly O'Donnell @KellyO White House has called a “lid” for this Sunday so no expected events or public activities by the president. She can't be serious. No POTUS in history kept a lighter schedule than Trump.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

22nd February 2021, 09:52 PM	#1948
Craig4 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: I live in a swamp Posts: 22,558	Originally Posted by kookbreaker Oil was not $25 a barrel in January. Don’t play into the flagrant lie. Biden has done nothing to impact the cost of oil yet. Texas on the other hand, the cluster **** there is impacting production. There are other factors at play but in the US spikes in demand due to weather and weather impact on supply are driving up costs. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Pric...en-Supply.html
	Last edited by Craig4; 22nd February 2021 at 09:54 PM.

22nd February 2021, 10:46 PM	#1949
gregthehammer Muse Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 721	Originally Posted by acbytesla She can't be serious. No POTUS in history kept a lighter schedule than Trump. Is she serious? Well, was she sitting in front of her haphazard collection of guns when she tweeted? Is so, she was dead serious. DEAD SERIOUS!
gregthehammer Muse Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 721

23rd February 2021, 04:32 AM	#1950
gnome Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 11,051	Tirelessly trolling the press and opponents isn't "working"
	__________________

23rd February 2021, 06:04 AM	#1951
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 7,931	Really starting to question the wisdom of campaigning on "$2000 immediately" when it's turning out to be neither $2000 or immediate. The delay and tedious means means testing aren't Biden's fault, but rather that of the legislature, but Biden still ends up getting the blame as head of the party. Seems to me that the Democratic party should have made the $2000 checks their day one priority, or at least not politically messaged in such a way that people thought cash relief would be coming quickly.
	__________________ Gobble gobble

23rd February 2021, 06:14 AM	#1952
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,653	I agree. "as fast as possible" isn't the same as "immediately", especially not in Washington.
	__________________ So what are you going to do about it, huh? What would an intellectual do? What would Plato do?

23rd February 2021, 06:24 AM	#1953
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,662	Originally Posted by CapelDodger No you haven't. How is a rising oil-price evidence that Biden is for fracking? Yes I have. I'll add a video link for you to hear the same. Further, it's rather presumptuous to claim you can know what someone has or has not heard. Or were you planning an attempt at the million dollar psychic power challenge? I think that has been cancelled though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4_2ynjacFI For or against? I'd like to know.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,662

23rd February 2021, 06:28 AM	#1954
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,662	Originally Posted by kookbreaker Oil was not $25 a barrel in January. Don’t play into the flagrant lie. Agreed this is true. The price of oil only increased 15% during Biden's first month in office.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,662

23rd February 2021, 06:33 AM	#1955
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 13,169	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Agreed this is true. The price of oil only increased 15% during Biden's first month in office. So do you retract your attack on Biden where you falsely claimed an oil price rise of over 100+% in a single month?
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23rd February 2021, 06:39 AM	#1956
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 7,931	If you think about it, the price of oil has increased by infinity % since they hit $0 in April. Explain that, libs! Stop taking the bait. Nobody proposing this as a "gotcha" for Biden is doing so in good faith. They're just ****-posting (an activity I very much respect).
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