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Tags Australia incidents , Australia issues , Facebook incidents , Facebook issues , Google incidents , Google issues , News Corp

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Old 8th February 2021, 09:52 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by GodMark2 View Post
No, I'm acting as if Google did something wrong by copying enough content from the original sources that users no longer need to follow the links to the source sites, as they have already read Google's copy of the content. The news agencies do all the work, but the eyeballs see only Google's adverts. Advertising agencies then stop paying the news agencies creating content and pay Google for copying content instead.

A parallel argument could be made that Google's service would be rendered valueless to it's own advertisers if it weren't continually copying other people's work. The only reason eyeballs go to Google is because of the content created by "not-Google". No content, no Google. No eyeballs on news agency sites, no payment to news agencies. No payment to news agencies, no news content for Google to copy.

The News agencies are saying "This is not a stable situation, and something has to change". Google is saying "Screw you guys, I'm going home".
Google searches give you at most two lines of context to a link, if that is enough for users to no longer need to read your story, it wasn't a story worth reading in the first place.

A close idea would be a magazine that published a page from each new novel so that people could read it and decide if they want to buy the book, a magazine that has existed for several decades and every author knows about and knows that unless they say no then that page will be published, and now deciding that they want that magazine to pay them to advertise their work to the public.

I am more than sure that the number of clicks that they get via a search engine vastly outweighs the number they lose. Heck by using norobots.txt and removing themselves from Google they could totally test it and show that they get more clicks by not being on the search engine and so their claims that Google is stealing their clicks are valid. Of course, they aren't going to do that because they want to have Google advertise their links, but now they are trying to strong-arm them into having to pay to advertise them.

Also, if the Media is allowed to forced Google to pay the Media to advertise their works, why can't I demand that Google has to pay to show my links in their Search Results?
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Last edited by PhantomWolf; 8th February 2021 at 09:54 PM.
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Old 8th February 2021, 10:35 PM   #42
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I don't recognise The New Daily, but...

Google backs down on threat to remove news search

Quote:
Google has launched its “news showcase” initiative in Australia, a day after the company’s global boss met Prime Minister Scott Morrison.

The pair discussed Google’s concerns with the federal government’s impending media code, which will force it and Facebook to pay news organisations for content.

Google had threatened to pull its search engine from Australia if it had to pay for links to news stories, and had said its news showcase feature was on hold.

But it has launched on Friday, after Mr Morrison had a meeting with Google’s global boss Sundar Pichai.

The showcase is accessed through Google’s mobile application, and allows users to read news direct from mastheads that is often behind paywalls.
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Old 8th February 2021, 11:22 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I don't recognise The New Daily, but...

Google backs down on threat to remove news search
So just a note. This is the third thing that I have seen that people have referred to as being the issue.

The first was, and this thread seems based on that, that what they wanted payment for was for links showing in the search feature. This I disagree with.

The Second was that it involved the sites that Google gets their infoboxes from and now this being about their new News Info service

The last two seem reasonable that Google paid for them, especially the news info service if it is granting the user the ability to search and read entire paywall articles. That is something that should be being paid for, but it is also something that is quite different from merely showing a link and two lines of context in a search result.
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Old 17th February 2021, 03:30 PM   #44
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Facebook blocks news in Australia

Apologies if this should go in Technology, but it is a social platform and is more about greed than anything else.

I have always been amazed people get their news off the thing in the first place.

https://www.thespinoff.co.nz/busines...cked-all-news/


Quote:
Media explosion in Australia: Facebook just blocked all news

Duncan Greive analyses a shocking development in the global pushback against big tech.

At 7.38am today a short email arrived from Facebook News Partnerships. It contained a total of five sentences, the most important reading: “I am writing to confirm that due to new laws in Australia, from today we will reluctantly restrict publishers and people in Australia from sharing or viewing Australian and international news content on Facebook.”

Despite its matter-of-fact tone and brevity, it could hardly be more consequential – this is the end (for now, maybe forever) of Facebook as a news distribution channel in Australia. Facebook says news represents less than 4% of content on its platform – but for publishers it can be the source of as much as half their traffic. And for Facebook, the risk is that even if it is only 4% of content, if users consider it critical, do they become less reliant on the platform?

This decision impacts New Zealand operators, too: more than 500,000 New Zealanders live across the Tasman, with many avidly consuming news from news organisations here. It’s as if our second-largest city has dropped off the map overnight. It means, for example, that if you live in Australia and follow The Spinoff on Facebook, links to Spinoff content will no longer appear in your feed. (Please consider instead downloading our app and signing up to our newsletters.) If you try to post our content (or any news organisation’s content) from Australia, you’ll see this:

.......

Last edited by cullennz; 17th February 2021 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 17th February 2021, 03:33 PM   #45
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Facebook News Ban

Facebook has banned content from Australian news organisations

This is what Google was threatening before they backed down. But as of this morning, nobody can share content from Australian news organisations. Unfortunately, this also includes government health and emergency services sites.

My prediction: it won't last long. Some kind of agreement will be reached soon.
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Old 17th February 2021, 03:34 PM   #46
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Facebook restricts news listing and sharing in Australia

February 17, 2021
By William Easton, Managing Director, Facebook Australia & New Zealand
https://about.fb.com/news/2021/02/ch...-in-australia/

“ In response to Australia’s proposed new Media Bargaining law, Facebook will restrict publishers and people in Australia from sharing or viewing Australian and international news content.
...
For Australian publishers this means:

They are restricted from sharing or posting any content on Facebook Pages
Admins will still be able to access other features from their Facebook Page, including Page insights and Creator Studio
We will continue to provide access to all other standard Facebook services, including data tools and CrowdTangle

For international publishers this means:

They can continue to publish news content on Facebook, but links and posts can’t be viewed or shared by Australian audiences

For our Australian community this means:

They cannot view or share Australian or international news content on Facebook or content from Australian and international news Pages

For our international community this means:

They cannot view or share Australian news content on Facebook or content from Australian news Pages “
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Old 17th February 2021, 03:42 PM   #47
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It's worse. This news ban has also affected state government health services and there are reports of womens' shelters and legal services being swept up in the ban.
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Old 17th February 2021, 03:48 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Facebook has banned content from Australian news organisations

This is what Google was threatening before they backed down. But as of this morning, nobody can share content from Australian news organisations. Unfortunately, this also includes government health and emergency services sites.

My prediction: it won't last long. Some kind of agreement will be reached soon.
Australia? Never heard of it, had a look on Facebook and there is no mention of it. What are you one of these flat earthers with your made up places?

I would suggest that Australia starts to hit back, create legislation that in effect fines any company that does business in Australia that advertises on Facebook since Facebook doesn’t want to obey the law of the land don’t let them make money from Australia.
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Old 17th February 2021, 03:54 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Australia? Never heard of it, had a look on Facebook and there is no mention of it. What are you one of these flat earthers with your made up places?

I would suggest that Australia starts to hit back, create legislation that in effect fines any company that does business in Australia that advertises on Facebook since Facebook doesn’t want to obey the law of the land don’t let them make money from Australia.
You would know if you met and Australian.

The men's names all end in "o", like "Deano" and "Steve'o"

And all the women are either called "Shazza", "Raelene" or "Sharlene"

And they will be wearing a hat with heaps of wine bottle corks hanging off them.
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Old 17th February 2021, 04:12 PM   #50
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There is a LOT of collateral damage in this ban. The Bureau of Meteorology, state and federal health and emergency services (in a pandemic!), and even news parody sites like the Beetoota Advocate and the Chaser.
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Old 17th February 2021, 04:15 PM   #51
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There goes my next "Man bites kangaroo" story.
Damn.

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Old 17th February 2021, 04:15 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
You would know if you met and Australian.

The men's names all end in "o", like "Deano" and "Steve'o"

And all the women are either called "Shazza", "Raelene" or "Sharlene"

And they will be wearing a hat with heaps of wine bottle corks hanging off them.
Huh, I thought they were all named Bruce and Sheila.


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Old 17th February 2021, 04:18 PM   #53
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Oh, this is gold.

Facebook has banned Facebook.
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Old 17th February 2021, 04:20 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by gregthehammer View Post
Huh, I thought they were all named Bruce and Sheila.



You know what millennials are like. Always trying to modernise everything.
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Old 17th February 2021, 04:34 PM   #55
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Who cares? Can't you Aussies just find your news elsewhere? This would be a good time to boycott FB.
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Old 17th February 2021, 04:35 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
There is a LOT of collateral damage in this ban. The Bureau of Meteorology, state and federal health and emergency services (in a pandemic!), and even news parody sites like the Beetoota Advocate and the Chaser.
So I'm confused. How is FB the only place to see these web sites?

What am I missing?
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Old 17th February 2021, 04:40 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
So I'm confused. How is FB the only place to see these web sites?

What am I missing?
It isn't. But Facebook drives a lot of traffic to those sites.

They are already working to reverse the ban. I don't know whether this means the entire ban, or just for the sites that aren't news sites.

source
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Old 17th February 2021, 04:43 PM   #58
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While I can't bring myself to be upset about the Murdoch empire being banned from Facebook, I can't see them sitting down for this. It'll end soon.
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Old 17th February 2021, 04:46 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
So I'm confused. How is FB the only place to see these web sites?

What am I missing?
I agree. And all state health services and most major hospitals run their own websites (I'm involved in that for my hospital, parenthetically). So all the details are out there.

Except that FB have also restricted health FB pages and people who link to them. These health FB pages are where a LOT of Australians get contact info for doctors, hospitals, etc. Reason for ban? These pages have feeds from health news sites as well, especially COVID news on our lockdowns.

So this isn't a stop-the-world disaster. But it is MIGHTY arbitrary and inconvenient and unnecessary. Facebook seem to be trying to make things as nasty as possible to get their way. Not that our federal government ministers involved understand the internet at all and are trying to fix things competently either. Dinosaurs are Einsteins by comparison.
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Old 17th February 2021, 04:46 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Who cares? Can't you Aussies just find your news elsewhere? This would be a good time to boycott FB.
I personally don't get a lot of news from Facebook. I use it more to connect with friends and family, so this hasn't affected me a great deal.

I'm not going off Facebook unless all of my friends and family can agree on an alternative platform that serves the same purpose. Which isn't going to happen.
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Old 17th February 2021, 04:55 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
...

I'm not going off Facebook unless all of my friends and family can agree on an alternative platform that serves the same purpose. Which isn't going to happen.
But you can stop clicking on news and other not-family links when it's back up.
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Old 17th February 2021, 05:03 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
But you can stop clicking on news and other not-family links when it's back up.
Generally I don't do that anyway. I get news from other sources, as everybody should, so when they pop up on facebook I usually read only the headline.
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Old 17th February 2021, 05:06 PM   #63
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They can't exist without an advertisement-driven gossip dumpster!!!!!
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Old 17th February 2021, 05:16 PM   #64
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Twitter is challenging India law or vice versa, but that's going in the thread on the massive India-farmer protest.

It's about political speech vs the tax issue here.

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Old 17th February 2021, 05:41 PM   #65
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Worryingly, three weeks out from an election in Western Australia, the opposition leader's facebook page was removed, while the premier's remained.
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Old 17th February 2021, 06:50 PM   #66
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Also,

https://australia.fb.com/news-law/

"People outside of Australia also cannot view or share Australian news content or content from Australian news Pages on Facebook."


Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
My prediction: it won't last long. Some kind of agreement will be reached soon.
That's how I see it.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Who cares? Can't you Aussies just find your news elsewhere? This would be a good time to boycott FB.
Billions of people use Facebook to discuss the news.
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Old 17th February 2021, 06:58 PM   #67
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The state broadcaster (ABC) provided a fair overview of the going on in my small city. Not interested in FB as a source of any other political news. FB is just a glance of what relatives are doing, guitar porn, concert and new music releases.
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Old 17th February 2021, 07:03 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Worryingly, three weeks out from an election in Western Australia, the opposition leader's facebook page was removed, while the premier's remained.
Now that is worrying.

And it one reason I don't get my news or anything else on FB. I just check what my cousins, brother, and a couple of old friends post.
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Old 17th February 2021, 09:31 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Apologies if this should go in Technology, but it is a social platform and is more about greed than anything else.
It's about the greed of Google and Murdoch too, not just Facebook.

Facebook are trying to protest the government's bill which does not define "news" company satisfactorily.

NewsCorp and Google have agreed to a mutual arrangement under the restrictions of the bill, but Facebook say the bill isn't suitable to how their platform works.
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Old 17th February 2021, 10:05 PM   #70
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You know, strange as it might seem, but Facebook doesn't actually have to host anyone's content or make things easy for people.

A lot of people seem to believe that access to Social Media is a Right and that Social Media Companies have to be bound by the same laws that bind Governments. Neither of these things is correct.

If Facebook doesn't want to be forced to pay because users post links and news articles, then preventing users from being able to post those links or articles is an entirely valid move on their part.

If it inconveniences you, stop using Facebook as your news source and go to the actual news websites.
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Old 17th February 2021, 10:14 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
You know, strange as it might seem, but Facebook doesn't actually have to host anyone's content or make things easy for people.

A lot of people seem to believe that access to Social Media is a Right and that Social Media Companies have to be bound by the same laws that bind Governments. Neither of these things is correct.

If Facebook doesn't want to be forced to pay because users post links and news articles, then preventing users from being able to post those links or articles is an entirely valid move on their part.

If it inconveniences you, stop using Facebook as your news source and go to the actual news websites.
Companies have a right to demand payment for their content.
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Old 17th February 2021, 10:19 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
You know, strange as it might seem, but Facebook doesn't actually have to host anyone's content or make things easy for people.

A lot of people seem to believe that access to Social Media is a Right and that Social Media Companies have to be bound by the same laws that bind Governments. Neither of these things is correct.

If Facebook doesn't want to be forced to pay because users post links and news articles, then preventing users from being able to post those links or articles is an entirely valid move on their part.

If it inconveniences you, stop using Facebook as your news source and go to the actual news websites.
I have apps for all the news sites I think worth using, but when Google blocks news sites as well, which it has and if you read up, it's not just about Facebook.

With regards to Facebook, it inconveniences me to not be able to discuss news with my friends and community.
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Old 17th February 2021, 10:37 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Companies have a right to demand payment for their content.
And Facebook has the right to not display that content.
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Old 17th February 2021, 10:39 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
I have apps for all the news sites I think worth using, but when Google blocks news sites as well, which it has and if you read up, it's not just about Facebook.
And your point? Google, just like Facebook is a private company, they can show what they want to show and not show what they don't. If you don't like it, don't use Google.

Quote:
With regards to Facebook, it inconveniences me to not be able to discuss news with my friends and community.
You don't have a Right to not be inconvenienced.
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Old 17th February 2021, 10:41 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
With regards to Facebook, it inconveniences me to not be able to discuss news with my friends and community.
How about Facebook charges you to allow you to post news articles, and then passed that on to the news company you posted the article from?
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Old 17th February 2021, 11:15 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Companies have a right to demand payment for their content.
Just something to think on here. Let's say that the Australian Government passes two new laws, the first requiring Facebook to allow the posting of news articles and the second farcing Facebook to pay for those articles that are posted. Because this seems to be what people are advocating for.

Now, what prevents a less than scrupulous News Organisation from creating thousands of fake users on Facebook all of whom post hundreds of their news stories each day?

I'd also note that if news organisations truly believed their claims that Facebook was stealing their ad revenue by taking their clicks, then Facebook's actions here should have them celebrating as now this is no longer happening which should increase their markets and ad revenue. Seems it's a win-win for them and Facebook.
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Old 17th February 2021, 11:17 PM   #77
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I don't understand why we've lost access to foreign news FB sites? Is that just FB giving us the finger or is there another relevant purpose here?
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Old 17th February 2021, 11:22 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
You know, strange as it might seem, but Facebook doesn't actually have to host anyone's content or make things easy for people.

A lot of people seem to believe that access to Social Media is a Right and that Social Media Companies have to be bound by the same laws that bind Governments. Neither of these things is correct.

If Facebook doesn't want to be forced to pay because users post links and news articles, then preventing users from being able to post those links or articles is an entirely valid move on their part.

If it inconveniences you, stop using Facebook as your news source and go to the actual news websites.

I'd argue it was a mutually beneficial arrangement.

Facebook get more clicks from people because of the news feeds and the media outlets get more clicks from people following the links.

Which is why I said greed.

From everyone.
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Old 17th February 2021, 11:22 PM   #79
Orphia Nay
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
And your point? Google, just like Facebook is a private company, they can show what they want to show and not show what they don't. If you don't like it, don't use Google.



You don't have a Right to not be inconvenienced.

You seem to have me confused with someone who hasn't said they thinks this will be settled without too much inconvenience to anyone.
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Old 17th February 2021, 11:31 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Just something to think on here. Let's say that the Australian Government passes two new laws, the first requiring Facebook to allow the posting of news articles and the second farcing Facebook to pay for those articles that are posted. Because this seems to be what people are advocating for.

Now, what prevents a less than scrupulous News Organisation from creating thousands of fake users on Facebook all of whom post hundreds of their news stories each day?

I'd also note that if news organisations truly believed their claims that Facebook was stealing their ad revenue by taking their clicks, then Facebook's actions here should have them celebrating as now this is no longer happening which should increase their markets and ad revenue. Seems it's a win-win for them and Facebook.
The problems with Facebook’s or other tech companies business models are no justification for using content created by media companies without payment.
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