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Old 27th December 2018, 11:37 AM   #121
Max_mang
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Yeah, events make a lot more sense in that context. Patel's comments on the incident are much more clearly self-serving nonsense, and his actions rather disturbing in light of the bigger context.
Why are Patel's comments "clearly self-serving nonsense", while the article is not?

I also wonder why neither Patel or Columbia has put up an unedited video of the whole performance.
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Old 27th December 2018, 11:52 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by Max_mang View Post
Why are Patel's comments "clearly self-serving nonsense", while the article is not?

A lot of the article was a bit cringey, but I'd say the core of it is the question of what prompted the organizers to end the show. Patel's narrative that it was for one joke which was misunderstood paints him in a pretty good light, but I put some stock in the account of someone else who was there and is close to the organizers.


Quote:
I also wonder why neither Patel or Columbia has put up an unedited video of the whole performance.
According to the article, people at Columbia have been getting a lot of harassing hate mail over this. Unless the video show Patel literally strangling a puppy, anything it shows would probably just intensify that.
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Old 27th December 2018, 12:05 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
...have I made a judgement on whether or not something was "offensive?" I'm not in the position to make that judgement: so I haven't. So my logic appears to be holding up.



Patel wasn't the only person who was there. We have other accounts. We can not only "aspire" to listening to those other accounts, we can actually listen to those other accounts. You are welcome to uncritically accept the narrative provided by the "aggrieved" party. I won't judge you for that. But the very least you could do is acknowledge that maybe Patel isn't in the best position to give an "unbiased version" of what happened.
Unless we had conflicting versions of what happened that night (in which, for example, the comedian said that he was punched in the face, and the audience said that no one punched him in the face), then we'd have to remain neutral until we had more evidence about which side is right. But we have a very clear description of what happened and neither the comedian nor the audience disagree on what the content of the material was. What they disagree on is on whether it was offensive or not, and whether or not that material was enough to justify him getting kicked out.

In regards to the content: Again, the joke (for those who are too triggered by words such as "black" or "gay" and immediately shut down their ears and brains as soon as they hear those words) was basically saying that in this current society with all the hatred, racism and xenophobia that exists, it is very difficult to be gay and/or black. That is as progressive and liberal as a message can be. And that is basically the underlying message that Patel's joke was.

In regards to the decision to get offended: As you correctly point out, getting offended is a completely subjective process. You (And I'm not saying you specifically, but the general "you") have every right to get offended at a joke that is basically saying that it is very difficult to be gay and/or black. But 1) If you're getting offended by that, then maybe you're the racist one, and 2) Your decision to get offended by something doesn't mean that the thing itself is offensive.
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Old 27th December 2018, 12:20 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by Max_mang View Post
Why are Patel's comments "clearly self-serving nonsense", while the article is not?
Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
A lot of the article was a bit cringey, but I'd say the core of it is the question of what prompted the organizers to end the show. Patel's narrative that it was for one joke which was misunderstood paints him in a pretty good light, but I put some stock in the account of someone else who was there and is close to the organizers.

Plus, given what we know about similar incidents, Patel's insistence that he was kicked off for one mildly obnoxious joke simply doesn't make sense, unless you are already coming from a "OMG libruls are teh real nazis!!!one1!" worldview.

Pretty much every other case where we've seen this sort of "They're censoring me!" reaction, the facts have proven to be quite a bit different than the supposed "victims" and their uncritical supporters have asserted. Not much reason why that would be any different here.

In most cases where something like this has happened, we also generally see the "victim" acknowledge that some sort of mistake was made, even if just an acknowledgement of a mistake in tone or failure to accurately read the room. Doubling down generally indicates someone who has screwed up but does not want to acknowledge their error. And listening to him talk about it after the fact, he goes out of his way to blame anything and everything but himself. He even criticizes the venue and lighting as part of the problem ffs. He seriously seems to lack any sort of reasonable self-examination, and continues to attack and ridicule the audience. Hell, he even managed to indirectly acknowledge that, despite his claims, it was not in fact one joke that got him kicked off but a whole lot more than that, even though he tries to gloss it over.

Originally Posted by Max_mang View Post
I also wonder why neither Patel or Columbia has put up an unedited video of the whole performance.
Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
According to the article, people at Columbia have been getting a lot of harassing hate mail over this. Unless the video show Patel literally strangling a puppy, anything it shows would probably just intensify that.

I'd say that the reason Patel would not do so is that the video, if it exists would show him in a bad light. If he's actually engaging in the sort of harassment of audience members and resort to "model minority" stereotypes in his humour, it would certainly explain the right-wing support for his actions and assertions, and his reluctance to want to release anything that would damage his portrayal of himself as a victim of evil leftist censors.

The fact that he appears to have supported rather than denounced the harassment of the students by his supporters is also rather disturbing, and lends more credence to the article's claims than to his.

And since most of his supporters appear to be well to the conservative side, or at least free-speech extremist libertarians like Rogan, as Cavemonster noted, his supporters lack a certain amount of empathy and are not going to have a problem with him saying anything insulting, offensive, or otherwise unpleasant to people that they're already primed to dislike on principle, so it wouldn't really do the University or students any favours to release the video. It will still be used as a justification for harassment and death threats.
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Old 27th December 2018, 12:42 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Plus, given what we know about similar incidents, Patel's insistence that he was kicked off for one mildly obnoxious joke simply doesn't make sense, unless you are already coming from a "OMG libruls are teh real nazis!!!one1!" worldview.
Have any of the audience members present during the show testify that it was not because of the "black/gay" joke, but rather something else that he's not talking about when interviewed about the incident?
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Old 27th December 2018, 12:44 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
Have any of the audience members present during the show testify that it was not because of the "black/gay" joke, but rather something else that he's not talking about when interviewed about the incident?
Yes, that's the content of the article posted earlier.
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Old 27th December 2018, 12:47 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
Have any of the audience members present during the show testify that it was not because of the "black/gay" joke, but rather something else that he's not talking about when interviewed about the incident?
Yes.
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Old 27th December 2018, 01:08 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
Unless we had conflicting versions of what happened that night (in which, for example, the comedian said that he was punched in the face, and the audience said that no one punched him in the face),
...we have conflicting versions of what happened that night. Did you not read anything that I posted? I even quoted the relevant bits to make it easier for you.

Quote:
then we'd have to remain neutral until we had more evidence about which side is right.
There is no obligation nor requirement to remain "neutral." You haven't remained neutral after all: you have quite clearly chosen a side to believe.

Quote:
But we have a very clear description of what happened and neither the comedian nor the audience disagree on what the content of the material was.
There is disagreement on why Patel was asked to end his set early.

Quote:
What they disagree on is on whether it was offensive or not, and whether or not that material was enough to justify him getting kicked out.
Nope. What they disagree with is why Patel was asked to leave the stage. Patel claims it was a single joke. People that were in the audience indicate it was much more than that.

Quote:
In regards to the content: Again, the joke (for those who are too triggered by words such as "black" or "gay" and immediately shut down their ears and brains as soon as they hear those words) was basically saying that in this current society with all the hatred, racism and xenophobia that exists, it is very difficult to be gay and/or black. That is as progressive and liberal as a message can be. And that is basically the underlying message that Patel's joke was.
"We have to remain neutral" says the guy who accepts one sides story uncritically and completely ignores the other. Some of the people that were in the audience are claiming that it wasn't this particular joke that prompted the organizers to ask Patel to end his set early. For you to continue to insist that this joke was the crux of the incident shows your determination to accept Patel's narrative and ignore everything else.

Quote:
In regards to the decision to get offended: As you correctly point out, getting offended is a completely subjective process. You (And I'm not saying you specifically, but the general "you") have every right to get offended at a joke that is basically saying that it is very difficult to be gay and/or black. But 1) If you're getting offended by that, then maybe you're the racist one, and 2) Your decision to get offended by something doesn't mean that the thing itself is offensive.
Or maybe something else happened on the night, you refuse to accept that anything else could have happened on the night, and you will continue to reframe the story to fit your preferred version of events because that makes you feel comfortable.

As I said before: if thats what you want to do I'm not going to judge you. But you aren't being "neutral." You've chosen a side. Its time to stop pretending that you haven't. I'm not the "racist one" and neither were the organizers of the event and its bizarre that you even bring that up.
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Old 27th December 2018, 02:45 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Yes.
So what are they claiming Patel said, that Patel himself didn't mention when interviewed about the issue?
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Old 27th December 2018, 02:46 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
Nope. What they disagree with is why Patel was asked to leave the stage. Patel claims it was a single joke. People that were in the audience indicate it was much more than that.
So what was it then?

Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
Or maybe something else happened on the night, you refuse to accept that anything else could have happened on the night, and you will continue to reframe the story to fit your preferred version of events because that makes you feel comfortable.

As I said before: if thats what you want to do I'm not going to judge you. But you aren't being "neutral." You've chosen a side. Its time to stop pretending that you haven't. I'm not the "racist one" and neither were the organizers of the event and its bizarre that you even bring that up.
Well, lets just say, right now, given the information we have, I'm putting my bets on Patel. Of course, I could be wrong, but given that A) only Patel has provided detailed information about what happened, and B) This is certainly not the first time that college students get triggered over stuff that wasn't meant to be offensive at all, to the point that many comedians have stopped doing sets at colleges, I really wouldn't be surprised if Patel was in the right here. But again, if the other side doesn't expose their version of what happened, we only have information from one side so far.
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Old 27th December 2018, 02:59 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
So what are they claiming Patel said, that Patel himself didn't mention when interviewed about the issue?

Read the article you'll know what they claimed he said.

Patel did mention it, if you actually listen to the Joe Rogan interview posted earlier. He did it in an off-hand dismissive sort of way, but it's there. If you listen to that interview in the context of the article, you can hear him confirming a lot of it, while trying to paint himself in a much better light. Mostly through small, throw-away mentions, snide comments, and smarmy insults directed at the audience members and the organizers. Even if all I had was his interview, I'd be very uninclined to take his side, given how he paints the event, the organizers, and himself.

Quote:
only Patel has provided detailed information about what happened
Not true. As has been pointed out multiple times. Your refusal to acknowledge the existence of alternate witness statements does not change the fact that they exist.

It's easy to say "given the information we have, I'm putting my bets on Patel" when you don't actually bother to read the information provide by anyone other than Patel. Your attitude is becoming increasingly disingenuous.
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Old 27th December 2018, 03:02 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
So what was it then?
...go read my cite.

Quote:
Well, lets just say, right now, given the information we have, I'm putting my bets on Patel.
Well, lets just say, right now, that you are deliberately ignoring additional information so that you can put your bet on Patel.

Quote:
Of course, I could be wrong,
Absolutely.

Quote:
but given that A) only Patel has provided detailed information about what happened,
Incorrect.

Quote:
and B) This is certainly not the first time that college students get triggered over stuff that wasn't meant to be offensive at all,
It also wouldn't be the first time that a comedian behaved atrociously then pretended that they didn't.

Quote:
to the point that many comedians have stopped doing sets at colleges, I really wouldn't be surprised if Patel was in the right here.
At this point with so many comedians having been caught out being horrible human beings it wouldn't surprise me if Patel was in the wrong here.

Quote:
But again, if the other side doesn't expose their version of what happened, we only have information from one side so far.
Except that we do have information from "both sides." But you are still pretending that we don't. Why are you doing that?
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Old 27th December 2018, 04:28 PM   #133
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It's amazing how not a single person can tell me what the audience is claiming. You keep telling me to go "read the article", or go "listen to the interview". Well, I already read the article and listened to the interview a while ago and don't remember ever hearing about the audience claiming there was another side to the story. I don't have time to go over all that stuff again. Are you people unable to articulate with your own words what is it that the audience is claiming on its side? Geez.
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Old 27th December 2018, 04:57 PM   #134
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The link is in banquetbear's post #115.

A relevant excerpt:

Quote:
Mainstream media has focused on a joke that Patel told during his set, but it has utterly failed to report other important details. For example: about 30 minutes into Nimesh Patel’s set, he started badgering a woman in the audience about what her parents did for a living. She responded multiple times that she had nothing to share about her father because she hasn’t been in contact with him for a while. To the audience it was apparent that she was uncomfortable with the attention and the invasion of her privacy. Yet, Patel continued to push, even despite the growing silence that took over the audience.

Patel persisted in asking multiple inappropriate questions of this audience member, like “Why don’t you know [your father]? Why aren’t you talking to him?” An attempt at comedy quickly soured into unprovoked personal harassment of a student. cultureSHOCK’s ethic is to empower people in their identities and experiences, but Patel’s demeaning performance was instead subjecting an audience member with unwanted public scrutiny, and putting the rest of the audience on edge.

It was at that moment when the three show directors from Columbia University’s Asian American Alliance (AAA) went on stage and let Patel know that his set was ending early.
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Old 27th December 2018, 05:02 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
It's amazing how not a single person can tell me what the audience is claiming.
...its amazing that we can directly link to what someone in the audience is claiming, quote snippets (conforming to fair-use-best-practice) from that article of that person's claims, and have several people in this thread summarize those claims for you: yet here you are pretending that none of that happened.

Quote:
You keep telling me to go "read the article", or go "listen to the interview".
We've done more than that. We've quoted from the article. We've summarized the article. Yet you keep pretending that we haven't.

Why are you doing that?

Quote:
Well, I already read the article and listened to the interview a while ago and don't remember ever hearing about the audience claiming there was another side to the story.
In my first post in this very thread I literally posted a link to a website where an audience member told their side of the story. I quoted from the article. You claim that "you've read it" but it would be impossible for you to hold the position that "we haven't heard from the audience" if you had actually read it.

I'll post to my original post again just for you. No thanks required.

Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
..."offense" is subjective. And as you weren't at the performance, you aren't in a position to judge whether or not the performance was offensive or not.

You are making the mistake of assuming that single joke was the reason why he was asked to leave the stage.

"Originally Posted by reappropriate
Mainstream media has focused on a joke that Patel told during his set, but it has utterly failed to report other important details. For example: about 30 minutes into Nimesh Patel’s set, he started badgering a woman in the audience about what her parents did for a living. She responded multiple times that she had nothing to share about her father because she hasn’t been in contact with him for a while. To the audience it was apparent that she was uncomfortable with the attention and the invasion of her privacy. Yet, Patel continued to push, even despite the growing silence that took over the audience.

...

Patel persisted in asking multiple inappropriate questions of this audience member, like “Why don’t you know [your father]? Why aren’t you talking to him?” An attempt at comedy quickly soured into unprovoked personal harassment of a student.

...

It was at that moment when the three show directors from Columbia University’s Asian American Alliance (AAA) went on stage and let Patel know that his set was ending early."

More at the link.

http://reappropriate.co/2018/12/im-a...sCaaJxDV4f7nW8
Quote:
I don't have time to go over all that stuff again.
You haven't gone over it once yet.

Quote:
Are you people unable to articulate with your own words what is it that the audience is claiming on its side? Geez.
We have. Are you incapable of reading? Geez.
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Old 27th December 2018, 10:03 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
Patel wasn't the only person who was there. We have other accounts.

lmao

According to Ron if there is an event with 100 people. And every single person says that John Smith punched Jane Doe in the face. Except John Smith who says all other 99 people are lying. You give equal weight to John Smith.

This is the same as the 99 black to 1 white marbles in a bag fallacy that many Americans horribly fail. The odds of picking the white marble is quite clearly 1 in 100. You wouldn't believe how many people think it is 50/50 because "durrr you are either going to pick black or white durrr".
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Old 28th December 2018, 01:15 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
lmao

According to Ron if there is an event with 100 people. And every single person says that John Smith punched Jane Doe in the face. Except John Smith who says all other 99 people are lying. You give equal weight to John Smith.
Please cite evidence that every person in the audience was offended by Nimesh.

Quote:
This is the same as the 99 black to 1 white marbles in a bag fallacy that many Americans horribly fail. The odds of picking the white marble is quite clearly 1 in 100. You wouldn't believe how many people think it is 50/50 because "durrr you are either going to pick black or white durrr".
Cool story.
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Old 29th December 2018, 08:10 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by Max_mang View Post
I also wonder why neither Patel or Columbia has put up an unedited video of the whole performance.
It is a virtual certainty that the copyright of the performance, and therefore the re-broadcast rights, are exclusively owned by Patel, so Columbia will not be able to legally post any video.
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Old 29th December 2018, 08:19 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by paulhutch View Post
It is a virtual certainty that the copyright of the performance, and therefore the re-broadcast rights, are exclusively owned by Patel, so Columbia will not be able to legally post any video.
If so, one wonders how Columbia stays in business.
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Old 29th December 2018, 08:35 AM   #140
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In case anyone is interested, Patel was on Joe Rogan last week (or something like that), and he talks about this incident.

As it has been lately my VPN isn't working, so I can't access youtube at the moment to find a link, but if you're interested just do a youtube search for JRE and Patel, it should come up.

I don't really have any comment about any of this except I remember he does talk about the woman that he's said to have been badgering. As is usual with Rogan it's a pretty long interview (his shows are generally 1.5-3 hours, I don't remember how long that one was, I don't think I listened to the whole thing, I had it on in the background while I was juggling).
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Old 29th December 2018, 09:36 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The link is in banquetbear's post #115.

A relevant excerpt:
Ah, interesting (Thanks for sharing the excerpt by the way. It was tough to get that from most people)

If that's what happened, that sounds awful, and I would totally understand the decision to kick him out. I still wouldn't agree with the decision (but I understand it). Unless most of the audience was in agreement that they wanted him out, the decision shouldn't be on one or two people.
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Old 29th December 2018, 09:48 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by paulhutch View Post
It is a virtual certainty that the copyright of the performance, and therefore the re-broadcast rights, are exclusively owned by Patel, so Columbia will not be able to legally post any video.

Evidence of highlighted?

Why would you assume the performer has rights over the venue? It would seem 50/50 to me and would depend on a number of variables.
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Old 29th December 2018, 10:53 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
lmao

According to Ron if there is an event with 100 people. And every single person says that John Smith punched Jane Doe in the face. Except John Smith who says all other 99 people are lying. You give equal weight to John Smith.

This is the same as the 99 black to 1 white marbles in a bag fallacy that many Americans horribly fail. The odds of picking the white marble is quite clearly 1 in 100. You wouldn't believe how many people think it is 50/50 because "durrr you are either going to pick black or white durrr".
This is an article written by one of the snowflakes who was in attendance at the performance. As you can read Patel's mike was cut because of his black/gay joke and not for all the other reasons snowflakes made up.

https://www.columbiaspectator.com/op...imesh-patel-2/

Almost every comedian has had these kinds of incidents during their shows. There is an abundance of snowflakes looking ti take offence and grab their 15 minutes of fame.

A decent organizer would have checked out Patel's wirk before inviting him to perform. This debacle isn't on Patel. It is on the snowflakes who thought they knew how to organize an event.

It is definitely not Patel's fault snowflakes don't have a sense of humour.
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Old 29th December 2018, 12:13 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
In case anyone is interested, Patel was on Joe Rogan last week (or something like that), and he talks about this incident.

As it has been lately my VPN isn't working, so I can't access youtube at the moment to find a link, but if you're interested just do a youtube search for JRE and Patel, it should come up.

I don't really have any comment about any of this except I remember he does talk about the woman that he's said to have been badgering. As is usual with Rogan it's a pretty long interview (his shows are generally 1.5-3 hours, I don't remember how long that one was, I don't think I listened to the whole thing, I had it on in the background while I was juggling).
It was linked to in this thread earlier.

From what I remember when he's talking about working the audience to try to recover from the bombing jokes (which he says at the beginning were not bombing, then during explaining what happened he describes what happens when a joke bombs) that this girl just 'offered up' that her dad left her family. He behaves like this was surprising and unexpectedly open. It is much more likely that his repeated asking the same kind of question got the embarrassed woman fed up enough to give the honest answer, as that is consistent with what he describes and what others described.

Patel's self awareness and ability to read the audience both failed spectacularly is my bet. I would like to see the video that Patel says he has to be more sure, but it's pretty clear already. This is my interpretation. He wasn't mentally prepared for the kind of venue (he communicates this in his interview when talking about the venue and lighting, even though he doesn't realize this is what what he is saying means). This, his delivery, and material lead to him bombing hard (he claims he wasn't and would own it if he bombed, but what he describes is bombing hard and he isn't owning it). Because of the environment and audience being something he wasn't prepared for, he panics at this more than he would in the venues he's more used to. This panic blinds him to how wildly bad his room work is going over, and doesn't let him move on from his go-to line of questioning. That his go-to audience work question is making the woman uncomfortable and will not work in her case because her father abandoned them simply does not register with him until she just comes out and says so. Even then, he doesn't realize that it was his line of questioning that made her state it so bluntly.

It wasn't just the one joke that made them cut his mic, but that was part of it. It wasn't just his badgering the girl, and I bet many in the audience were similarly unaware of the connection, but that was part of it. I'd wager that vicarious embarrassment for him factored into it to. He was too inside it to see what was happening. It's easy to be reductionist and just claim 'SJW snowflakes! lol!', and that might have contributed, but from what Patel himself says, I don't buy that being a major factor.

He bombed too hard to know he bombed. It happens. I hope at least he reviews the video and grows from it.
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Old 29th December 2018, 12:27 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
This is an article written by one of the snowflakes who was in attendance at the performance. As you can read Patel's mike was cut because of his black/gay joke and not for all the other reasons snowflakes made up.
The author doesn't say that at all. He says that it was a cumulative effect, and that:

Quote:
The atmosphere throughout the remainder of the routine was uncomfortable with a few occasional laughs. While it’s normal in stand-up to pick an audience member to dialogue with, Patel just kept returning to the same girl to ask her painfully drawn out questions, as if he were mining material for a routine he had not prepared. He asked another audience member personal questions about their parents in a room full of strangers.
...and...

Quote:
He was booted off the stage because he sucked the energy out of an entire auditorium.
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Old 29th December 2018, 01:55 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
The author doesn't say that at all. He says that it was a cumulative effect . . .
No. First, the author is female. A black female exchange student from England who has shown in the past that she is an extreme liberal:

Quote:
Columbia’s brand of liberalism is often thinly veiled complacency. I frequently feel like if I don’t mention race in appropriate discussions in class then it will just be disregarded.
What she said was that Patel got good laughs, as others reported, until he told that joke which they got completely wrong. Patel has used that joke before. The difference is it wasn't until Columbia that he ran into a crowd just looking to take offence at anything.

If you go to Patel's website, or Youtube him, you can see his comedy. This show is one he has done before and they knew he was going to perform it. The organisers of the Columbia debacle should have done that. if they are truly concerned about the feelings of the crown then they should never book a comedian, and at the very least they should check out the material.

The organisers had two choices: 1- Give Patel a list of subjects he is not allowed to talk about prior to booking him so he can accept or reject, or 2- stick to more appropriate, and less controversial entertainment, perhaps an ethnic dance troupe.

They hired a comedian to do his material and they got it.
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Old 29th December 2018, 02:25 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Plus, given what we know about similar incidents, Patel's insistence that he was kicked off for one mildly obnoxious joke simply doesn't make sense, unless you are already coming from a "OMG libruls are teh real nazis!!!one1!" worldview.

Pretty much every other case where we've seen this sort of "They're censoring me!" reaction, the facts have proven to be quite a bit different than the supposed "victims" and their uncritical supporters have asserted. Not much reason why that would be any different here.

In most cases where something like this has happened, we also generally see the "victim" acknowledge that some sort of mistake was made, even if just an acknowledgement of a mistake in tone or failure to accurately read the room. Doubling down generally indicates someone who has screwed up but does not want to acknowledge their error. And listening to him talk about it after the fact, he goes out of his way to blame anything and everything but himself. He even criticizes the venue and lighting as part of the problem ffs. He seriously seems to lack any sort of reasonable self-examination, and continues to attack and ridicule the audience. Hell, he even managed to indirectly acknowledge that, despite his claims, it was not in fact one joke that got him kicked off but a whole lot more than that, even though he tries to gloss it over.





I'd say that the reason Patel would not do so is that the video, if it exists would show him in a bad light. If he's actually engaging in the sort of harassment of audience members and resort to "model minority" stereotypes in his humour, it would certainly explain the right-wing support for his actions and assertions, and his reluctance to want to release anything that would damage his portrayal of himself as a victim of evil leftist censors.

The fact that he appears to have supported rather than denounced the harassment of the students by his supporters is also rather disturbing, and lends more credence to the article's claims than to his.

And since most of his supporters appear to be well to the conservative side, or at least free-speech extremist libertarians like Rogan, as Cavemonster noted, his supporters lack a certain amount of empathy and are not going to have a problem with him saying anything insulting, offensive, or otherwise unpleasant to people that they're already primed to dislike on principle, so it wouldn't really do the University or students any favours to release the video. It will still be used as a justification for harassment and death threats.
That was a lot of words to say " if I don't like a piece of art enough it should not only not exist but the artist should ******* starve."
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Old 29th December 2018, 02:34 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
No. First, the author is female. A black female exchange student from England who has shown in the past that she is an extreme liberal:



What she said was that Patel got good laughs, as others reported, until he told that joke which they got completely wrong. Patel has used that joke before. The difference is it wasn't until Columbia that he ran into a crowd just looking to take offence at anything.

If you go to Patel's website, or Youtube him, you can see his comedy. This show is one he has done before and they knew he was going to perform it. The organisers of the Columbia debacle should have done that. if they are truly concerned about the feelings of the crown then they should never book a comedian, and at the very least they should check out the material.

The organisers had two choices: 1- Give Patel a list of subjects he is not allowed to talk about prior to booking him so he can accept or reject, or 2- stick to more appropriate, and less controversial entertainment, perhaps an ethnic dance troupe.

They hired a comedian to do his material and they got it.
I’m pretty sure that a professional comedian does not consider “a few laughs” to constitute a decent set.

And you apparently read about three selected sentences of the article and utterly disregarded the rest.
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Old 29th December 2018, 02:44 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
I’m pretty sure that a professional comedian does not consider “a few laughs” to constitute a decent set.
Actually, even his detractors have said the set went well until that joke. The joke where he specifically says "Being gay is not a choice," "Being gay is harder than being straight", "being black is harder than being white." It takes a special kind of stupid, or an SJW (which I suppose is the same thing), to twist that into Patel being racist and homophobic.

Quote:
And you apparently read about three selected sentences of the article and utterly disregarded the rest.
And you apparently read the SJW official position on the matter.
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Old 29th December 2018, 03:08 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
That was a lot of words to say " if I don't like a piece of art enough it should not only not exist but the artist should ******* starve."
Yup. The organisers were so "proud to have the first Indian-American writer from SNL here!" but in reality he was nothing but a token. They didn't like him or his work, they liked that he was the first Indian-American to write on SNL who they thought would make them, and their debacle, more relevant and bring in more money.
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Old 29th December 2018, 08:54 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
No. First, the author is female. A black female exchange student from England who has shown in the past that she is an extreme liberal:
Well, that completely changes everything.


Quote:
What she said was that Patel got good laughs, as others reported, until he told that joke which they got completely wrong.
So he was funny till he wasn't. A joke bombed, and then:

Quote:
and then delivered the usual condescending and presumptuous spiel about how we need to learn about the “real world.” I thought, “Relax, you just got on stage.” Patel presented himself as arrogant and almost contemptuous toward the audience he was meant to entertain. Later, he even said, “Well, I’m already paid,” setting the tone of his performance.
And then he proceeded to start grilling audience members in an inappropriate way that made everyone squirm.

None of that is funny.

He sucked at the gig.

The crowd didn't like him.

The organizers just asked him to leave.

At least they didn't boo him off stage and throw crap at him.
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Old 29th December 2018, 09:15 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
That was a lot of words to say " if I don't like a piece of art enough it should not only not exist but the artist should ******* starve."

I really miss the old days of JREF. The trolls we had those days actually had a modicum of creativity, not to say a certain subtle wit. The grammar-school trolls we get these days inspire nothing but a jaded boredom with their hackneyed antics. This forum really is going downhill.
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Old 30th December 2018, 03:09 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by Max_mang View Post
Evidence of highlighted?

Why would you assume the performer has rights over the venue? It would seem 50/50 to me and would depend on a number of variables.
In the US, copyright automatically goes to the creator of a piece of work. A standup comedy set is the intellectual property of the comedian unless something else has been explicitly arranged.
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Old 30th December 2018, 03:13 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Yup. The organisers were so "proud to have the first Indian-American writer from SNL here!" but in reality he was nothing but a token. They didn't like him or his work, they liked that he was the first Indian-American to write on SNL who they thought would make them, and their debacle, more relevant and bring in more money.
Considering that the organization that brought him in was an organization of Asian American students, "token" seems like a strange word choice for a south Asian comedian.
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Old 30th December 2018, 08:58 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
In the US, copyright automatically goes to the creator of a piece of work. A standup comedy set is the intellectual property of the comedian unless something else has been explicitly arranged.
Why would you assume with "certainty" that that was not arranged? People create things at their jobs all the time - lists, spreadsheets, documentation, videos, etc - but they don't own them, the organization that paid for it does. Most musicians don't have any rights to their master recordings if they have a recording contract.

Also, copyright and distribution rights are totally different things.

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Old 30th December 2018, 09:59 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by Max_mang View Post
Evidence of highlighted?

Why would you assume the performer has rights over the venue? It would seem 50/50 to me and would depend on a number of variables.
A content creator has exclusive copyright on their creations. A venue has no copyrights on a performers intellectual property (creations). The venue could get a distribution license from the copyright owner but this is almost never done. This is all very basic copyright law.
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Old 30th December 2018, 10:00 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by Max_mang View Post
Why would you assume with "certainty" that that was not arranged? People create things at their jobs all the time - lists, spreadsheets, documentation, videos, etc - but they don't own them, the organization that paid for it does. Most musicians don't have any rights to their master recordings if they have a recording contract.

Also, copyright and distribution rights are totally different things.
If an official recording was made for future publishing, the typical arrangement is the artist gives up distribution control (having no distribution infrastructure and associated army of lawyers of their own) in exchange for money.

If Patel gets money AND control, I want to know his secrets.
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Old 30th December 2018, 10:29 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by Max_mang View Post
Why would you assume with "certainty" that that was not arranged? People create things at their jobs all the time - lists, spreadsheets, documentation, videos, etc - but they don't own them, the organization that paid for it does. Most musicians don't have any rights to their master recordings if they have a recording contract.

Also, copyright and distribution rights are totally different things.
This, like most, venue/performer relationships is almost certainly not an employer/employee relationship, it is almost certainly a customer/contractor relationship. The only times I've ever heard of where a performer is an employee of a venue are some permanent shows (e.g. Cirque Du Soleil, Disneyland) and other special circumstances.

US copyright law is that the copyright on work output of employees belongs to the employer unless some other arrangement is made via a legally binding contract. The law on customer/contractor is exactly opposite, the copyright belongs to the contractor unless a legal contract is made stating otherwise.

Distribution rights laws are a direct subset of copyright laws, and are not totally different things.

While it is remotely possible that Patel sold or gave away the rights to his performance to the venue it is so far from the normal way of things that unless some evidence shows it happened it should be assumed to have not happened.
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Old 30th December 2018, 10:50 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
Considering that the organization that brought him in was an organization of Asian American students, "token" seems like a strange word choice for a south Asian comedian.
He is a token because of the way he was treated. His comedy didn't change. They expected him to behave is a specific way because he is Asian but he behaved differently because he is a comedian. His act is the same act he has performed all over and the organisers should have done tgeir due diligence.
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Old 30th December 2018, 11:13 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Well, that completely changes everything.
Just an example of one of the many things you got wrong.

Quote:
So he was funny till he wasn't. A joke bombed, and then:

And then he proceeded to start grilling audience members in an inappropriate way that made everyone squirm.

None of that is funny.

He sucked at the gig.

The crowd didn't like him.

The organizers just asked him to leave.

At least they didn't boo him off stage and throw crap at him.
Let's get to reality here. The organisers who interrupted Patel's show never mentioned anything except the black and gay joke. If this were an accumulation thing they would have mentioned other things.

There is an interesting article in Psychology Today on this incident. Ironically, the psychologist who wrote the article uses Patel's joke in his anti-bullying talks and no one ever took offence, in fact it diffuses bullying behaviour. He used the same joke in a TedTalk that you can go watch.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psy...ofession%3famp

The fact is this. Patel's routine is completely inoffensive. This was nothing more than SJWs attempting ti destroy someone's life. They have tried that with many comedians with varying degrees of success. That's why comedians steer clear of modern college campuses.
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