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Old 7th January 2019, 03:08 AM   #201
lionking
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
The rest refers to the millions currently sitting in camps around the world or in the case of this thread risking life and limb to get into countries around the world that trwat them as invaders.

That this never occured to you is telling I think.
How many of these millions (actually 10s of millions) of refugees would you allow to settle in the UK simply because they claim asylum there? Because without proper border protection, as the UK is trying to implement here, you would have ships galore arriving. Leaving aside the relative small number of proven criminals, how many would you happily accept? A million a year? More?
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Old 7th January 2019, 03:26 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
You, when you said they should have to claim asylum in the first country they get to.
The first EU country.

Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
How do you know that?

Which is you lying about what I have been saying.



How did they legally get into the UK? You now have them flying in from other countries, yet you were saying it is illegal for them to get into the UK from another country where they could claim asylum.
No, I didn't.

Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
My point stands, they do not need to and may not be able to enter the UK through a legal method and it is wrong to demand they do something that is not possible.
For the love of God, it would take you five seconds to go read about the visa application and legal resettlement schemes which account for the settlement of the vast majority of the Syrian refugees in this country, but instead you prefer to post this nonsense. Stop being influenced by this open-border nutjobbery and look at the facts.
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Old 7th January 2019, 03:34 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
The first EU country.
So, again, how can any Syrian who needs to get out of Syria to save their life, get here legally so as to claim asylum?

Quote:
No, I didn't.



For the love of God, it would take you five seconds to go read about the visa application and legal resettlement schemes which account for the settlement of the vast majority of the Syrian refugees in this country, but instead you prefer to post this nonsense. Stop being influenced by this open-border nutjobbery and look at the facts.
I know about the refugee resettlement schemes, but what about asylum seekers? Your insistence that they claim asylum in the first EU country they get to is just a sneaky way to avoid the UK taking any.

How can a Syrian get a visa to claim asylum?
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Old 7th January 2019, 03:51 AM   #204
Archie Gemmill Goal
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
How many of these millions (actually 10s of millions) of refugees would you allow to settle in the UK simply because they claim asylum there? Because without proper border protection, as the UK is trying to implement here, you would have ships galore arriving. Leaving aside the relative small number of proven criminals, how many would you happily accept? A million a year? More?
Well again you are conflating different things because claiming asylum and having your case approved and the right to settle are different things.

And 'without border protection as the UK is trying to implement here' is a complete red herring because there aren't ships galore arriving there is a trickle of people coming in my dangerous and difficult means. And if the argument is that we can't afford to house these people in our country then I have to ask how much has been spent on military operations to keep out this handful of people and how much was spent bombing their countries in the first place.

To specifically answer your question, it's not something that you can simply pluck a figure out of the air on but I would say that there needs to be a concerted international effort to take a proper share of the refugees. In other words the developed nations need to clean up the mess they created.

If you want me to bandy around numbers for the sake of argument then I would think a country like the US should be taking in 1m or 2m, and the UK proportionately something like a couple of hundred thousand. Not all of these are going to settle permanently and not all of the tens of millions are even going to want to move far from their homes.

ETA: And, in fact, what I suggest would have the very opposite effect to having loads of boats arriving because if the proper channels were operating effectively then the need to use alternative means of arrival would go away. The reason why people are risking their life to get to the UK is because there is no other way in. If they could be quickly and effectively processed through neighbouring countries as the system is SUPPOSED to do then you do away with the need for smuggling entirely.
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Old 7th January 2019, 03:54 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
So, again, how can any Syrian who needs to get out of Syria to save their life, get here legally so as to claim asylum?

I know about the refugee resettlement schemes, but what about asylum seekers? Your insistence that they claim asylum in the first EU country they get to is just a sneaky way to avoid the UK taking any.

How can a Syrian get a visa to claim asylum?
They apply for one... WTH? They walk into the UK embassy in Lebanon or Jordan or Turkey or wherever and say, "Hello, I am a Syrian, I would like to apply for a visa to the UK." I honestly don't know what's confusing you.
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Old 7th January 2019, 04:09 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
There are no direct flights from Syria to Heathrow or Syrian ferries to Dover. Asylum seekers to the UK HAVE to go through other countries first.

It is therefore wrong when some demand asylum seekers can only be accepted if they arrive directly and legally from their home country.
I'm aware of all that. My argument is that the means of travel into the UK is not by itself an illegality.

Consider another example, and this one isn't satire and it applies a lot: Refugees climbing over the wall or sneaking through the gate into the first UK embassy or consulate grounds they can find. They are now on UK territory but it could hardly be called a conventional means of arrival. And now they have arrived, they apply for asylum. Is the consulate going to ignore their claim and throw them back out on the street simply because they didn't come to the front door, knock three times and say "Harry Potter" as it clearly says on the sign in the foyer? I suspect not. Note that this does not assume their claim will subsequently be valid nor that they will be allowed stay. That is to be determined.
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Old 7th January 2019, 06:42 AM   #207
Archie Gemmill Goal
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
I'm aware of all that. My argument is that the means of travel into the UK is not by itself an illegality.
Possibly not, but I would imagine they would probably have breached at least 1 technicality en route to get here. But that's also probably true of people who arrive by conventional means also.

What I don't understand is why it matters.

If the person is a genuine case, and that needs to be assessed when they arrive not beforehand, then why would how they have arrived matter if they are now going through the proper channels?

If the issue is that we have to stop people travelling by dangerous routes then the solution is to make an easier route so people don't have to

Quote:
Consider another example, and this one isn't satire and it applies a lot: Refugees climbing over the wall or sneaking through the gate into the first UK embassy or consulate grounds they can find. They are now on UK territory but it could hardly be called a conventional means of arrival. And now they have arrived, they apply for asylum. Is the consulate going to ignore their claim and throw them back out on the street simply because they didn't come to the front door, knock three times and say "Harry Potter" as it clearly says on the sign in the foyer? I suspect not. Note that this does not assume their claim will subsequently be valid nor that they will be allowed stay. That is to be determined.
Conveniently avoided often by closing the embassy of countries we bomb!
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Old 7th January 2019, 08:13 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
The rest refers to the millions currently sitting in camps around the world or in the case of this thread risking life and limb to get into countries around the world that trwat them as invaders.



That this never occured to you is telling I think.
I recall a reason for discouraging attempts to arrive being to deter the rest. Which now don't exist.

This is a curious attribute of "othering." They exist when a boogeyman is needed, there aren't enough to go implementing useful solutions when presented. They are apparently Schroedinger's refugees.
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Old 7th January 2019, 08:17 AM   #209
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Remember, this entire exercise is about "protecting" refugees from attempting dangerous crossings. Concern for life is paramount!

Then doing everything possible to make it sound like "proper procedure" carries no risk at all so as not to reveal the otherwise obvious hypocrisy.
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Old 7th January 2019, 08:45 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
I recall a reason for discouraging attempts to arrive being to deter the rest. Which now don't exist.
I think you'll find there are still a few knocking around, in the region of 50 million at the last count.
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Old 7th January 2019, 01:01 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
They apply for one... WTH? They walk into the UK embassy in Lebanon or Jordan or Turkey or wherever and say, "Hello, I am a Syrian, I would like to apply for a visa to the UK." I honestly don't know what's confusing you.
But according to you, they should be claiming asylum in Lebanon, Jordan or Turkey.

Then there is the issue of there is no such think as a visa for asylum...

https://www.gov.uk/claim-asylum

"To be eligible you must have left your country and be unable to go back because you fear persecution.
Apply for a visa if you want to come to the UK for another reason (for example to work, study or remain with family)."

So, again, how does a Syrian legally enter the UK directly from Syria so as to claim asylum?

Or do you now accept that it is wrong to say that only those who can get here directly and legally should be able to claim asylum, because it is not possible to do that?
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Old 7th January 2019, 01:08 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
I'm aware of all that. My argument is that the means of travel into the UK is not by itself an illegality.

Consider another example, and this one isn't satire and it applies a lot: Refugees climbing over the wall or sneaking through the gate into the first UK embassy or consulate grounds they can find. They are now on UK territory but it could hardly be called a conventional means of arrival. And now they have arrived, they apply for asylum. Is the consulate going to ignore their claim and throw them back out on the street simply because they didn't come to the front door, knock three times and say "Harry Potter" as it clearly says on the sign in the foyer? I suspect not. Note that this does not assume their claim will subsequently be valid nor that they will be allowed stay. That is to be determined.
As far as I am concerned, which is also what The Refugee Council states, the method of getting to the UK is not the issue and even if entry is illegal, once they claim asylum, their presence here is legal.
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Old 7th January 2019, 01:09 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
But according to you, they should be claiming asylum in Lebanon, Jordan or Turkey.

Then there is the issue of there is no such think as a visa for asylum...

https://www.gov.uk/claim-asylum

"To be eligible you must have left your country and be unable to go back because you fear persecution.
Apply for a visa if you want to come to the UK for another reason (for example to work, study or remain with family)."

So, again, how does a Syrian legally enter the UK directly from Syria so as to claim asylum?

Or do you now accept that it is wrong to say that only those who can get here directly and legally should be able to claim asylum, because it is not possible to do that?
Jesus wept! The first EU country!

And it's perfectly legal to apply for a visa for tourism or work or whatever then claim asylum once you're here.

You're just being ridiculous now. I have no idea why you can't admit you're wrong but I'm beginning to feel bad on your behalf.
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Old 7th January 2019, 01:40 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Jesus wept! The first EU country!

And it's perfectly legal to apply for a visa for tourism or work or whatever then claim asylum once you're here.

You're just being ridiculous now. I have no idea why you can't admit you're wrong but I'm beginning to feel bad on your behalf.
Please show evidence it is legal to lie about what a visa is for and then claim asylum.
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Old 7th January 2019, 02:01 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Please show evidence it is legal to lie about what a visa is for and then claim asylum.
You show evidence that it's not, it's you who is making the claim. The fact is that entering on a visa then claiming asylum is perfectly legal as long as the person does not attempt to actually pass through customs on that basis, and presents themselves to immigration control as soon as they arrive. What, you think the cops will jump out and say, "Aha! You said you were going to visit Buckingham Palace and now here you are trying to claim asylum! In the back of the van with you!" Even if there is no asylum claim no action is taken under these circumstances, the person is just sent back.

Edited to add, if I hadn't said it before, it's actually legal for an asylum seeker to fly to the UK without any visa at all, but this is dependant on the airline letting them on.
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Old 8th January 2019, 03:56 AM   #216
Archie Gemmill Goal
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Please show evidence it is legal to lie about what a visa is for and then claim asylum.
It clearly isn't.

Quote:
The most common way the offence is committed is under section 26(1)(c), making
a false statement etc. A charge under this subsection may be appropriate where,
for instance, the suspect denies his real identity when asked, or a form is filled in
with deliberately false information
.
Strange that some would seem to argue that visa fraud is OK but not entering by unorthodox means. It's almost as if they don't care about anything other than finding a way to stop whatever immigrants they are presented with on any given day.
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Old 8th January 2019, 07:32 AM   #217
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Isn't it odd when 'some' people (let's get into the spirit of the nebulous, passive aggressive talk that seems so prevalent on this forum recently) like to argue about immigration without the first clue regarding the facts, the legislation or the current and historic situation?

Isn't it odd when 'some' people repeatedly advocate open borders and detail their wish to admit foreign terrorists and criminals into the country... then pretend that they never actually said any of it?

Isn't it odd when 'some' people prefer to fill the country with criminals and economic migrants resulting in genuine refugees being crowded out? It's almost like 'some' people don't give a stuff about refugees and instead use their virtue signalling to try and conceal their desire for civil unrest and anarchy.
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Old 8th January 2019, 07:49 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
You show evidence that it's not, it's you who is making the claim.
You are the one claiming it is fine to lie on a visa, yet I have shown evidence where it clearly is not.

Quote:
The fact is that entering on a visa then claiming asylum is perfectly legal as long as the person does not attempt to actually pass through customs on that basis, and presents themselves to immigration control as soon as they arrive.
Please evidence that claim.

Quote:
What, you think the cops will jump out and say, "Aha! You said you were going to visit Buckingham Palace and now here you are trying to claim asylum! In the back of the van with you!" Even if there is no asylum claim no action is taken under these circumstances, the person is just sent back.

Edited to add, if I hadn't said it before, it's actually legal for an asylum seeker to fly to the UK without any visa at all, but this is dependant on the airline letting them on.
Please evidence that claim.
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Old 8th January 2019, 08:02 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
You are the one claiming it is fine to lie on a visa, yet I have shown evidence where it clearly is not.



Please evidence that claim.



Please evidence that claim.
No, it's beyond ridiculous now. I should have stopped when you claimed that no immigrant had, or could, enter the UK legally. I've referenced various bits of legislation so if you need more information I'd advise reading around what I have given.
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Old 8th January 2019, 08:08 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
No, it's beyond ridiculous now. I should have stopped when you claimed that no immigrant had, or could, enter the UK legally.
That was not my claim.

Quote:
I've referenced various bits of legislation so if you need more information I'd advise reading around what I have given.
My primary question is, how does an asylum seeker legally enter the UK directly from their own country?

I then suggested you show me how a Syrian who wants asylum (not a holiday or to work or anything else) can legally enter the UK directly from Syria.

You have dodged that and made claims which you then refuse to evidence or I have shown are wrong.
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Old 8th January 2019, 09:07 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
That was not my claim.
Yes it was. Your argument was that is it impossible for a Syrian to legally come to this country to claim asylum, despite the fact that 11,000 have done so without legal repercussions.

Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
My primary question is, how does an asylum seeker legally enter the UK directly from their own country?

I then suggested you show me how a Syrian who wants asylum (not a holiday or to work or anything else) can legally enter the UK directly from Syria.
Who cares where they fly from? Stop changing the goalposts. You said that a Syrian refugee has no way of legally claiming asylum in the UK. I told you how they can do this and you ignored it, pretending that it's illegal to fly over on a tourism or work Visa then claim asylum, which is patently absurd.
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Old 8th January 2019, 09:21 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Yes it was. Your argument was that is it impossible for a Syrian to legally come to this country to claim asylum, despite the fact that 11,000 have done so without legal repercussions.
You have just contradicted your self. Your claim was that I was arguing "that no immigrant had, or could, enter the UK legally." You have now altered that to "it impossible for a Syrian to legally come to this country to claim asylum."

My actual claim is that it is impossible for a Syrian to legally and directly enter the UK to claim asylum.

The Syrians you refer to are refugees the UK has processed and then taken from refugee camps in countries around Syria.

Quote:
Who cares where they fly from? Stop changing the goalposts. You said that a Syrian refugee has no way of legally claiming asylum in the UK.
No I did not.

Quote:
I told you how they can do this and you ignored it, pretending that it's illegal to fly over on a tourism or work Visa then claim asylum, which is patently absurd.
It is illegal to do so, as I previously proved here;

https://www.gov.uk/claim-asylum

"To be eligible you must have left your country and be unable to go back because you fear persecution.

Apply for a visa if you want to come to the UK for another reason (for example to work, study or remain with family). If you’re already in the UK and want to remain with family living here, apply for a family of a settled person visa."

"You can get up to 2 years in prison or have to leave the UK if you give false information on your application."

You want asylum seekers to arrive legally in the UK and not go via another EU country. I have pointed out that is virtually impossible for a Syrian to do, with evidence and you have claimed that it is possible, without producing any evidence.
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Old 8th January 2019, 11:23 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
But according to you, they should be claiming asylum in Lebanon, Jordan or Turkey.
Or Israel or Iraq. Yes. They should.

Quote:
Then there is the issue of there is no such think as a visa for asylum...

https://www.gov.uk/claim-asylum

"To be eligible you must have left your country and be unable to go back because you fear persecution.
Apply for a visa if you want to come to the UK for another reason (for example to work, study or remain with family)."

So, again, how does a Syrian legally enter the UK directly from Syria so as to claim asylum?

Or do you now accept that it is wrong to say that only those who can get here directly and legally should be able to claim asylum, because it is not possible to do that?
They shouldn't be trying to come to the UK to claim asylum
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Old 8th January 2019, 11:32 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
You have just contradicted your self. Your claim was that I was arguing "that no immigrant had, or could, enter the UK legally." You have now altered that to "it impossible for a Syrian to legally come to this country to claim asylum."

My actual claim is that it is impossible for a Syrian to legally and directly enter the UK to claim asylum.

The Syrians you refer to are refugees the UK has processed and then taken from refugee camps in countries around Syria.
Some are. Some are not. I have no clue why you're arguing about it. Ten thousand people a year are granted asylum in the UK, a small minority are taken from refugee camps in chartered airlines, an even smaller minority cross the Channel on boat or under wagons, yet you're asking people to believe that either

a) This doesn't happen and it's all a big con
b) All these people have criminal records

Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
No I did not.

It is illegal to do so, as I previously proved here;

https://www.gov.uk/claim-asylum

"To be eligible you must have left your country and be unable to go back because you fear persecution.

Apply for a visa if you want to come to the UK for another reason (for example to work, study or remain with family). If you’re already in the UK and want to remain with family living here, apply for a family of a settled person visa."

"You can get up to 2 years in prison or have to leave the UK if you give false information on your application."
As I've explained that applies to passing through customs on false pretences. It is not even a legal requirement for an asylum seeker to have a visa! There is additional protection given to those people who feel they have no choice but to fly on forged documents or under an assumed identity. You can quibble all day about the technicalities of what constitutes false information but the fact is coming over on a tourist visa (or no visa at all) then claiming asylum is not illegal and a person doing so will not be prosecuted for that alone. They may have their claim rejected but they will not be subject to legal proceedings unless they enter the UK on that basis without informing immigration control.

Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
You want asylum seekers to arrive legally in the UK and not go via another EU country. I have pointed out that is virtually impossible for a Syrian to do, with evidence and you have claimed that it is possible, without producing any evidence.
I'm waiting for you to show how Turkey, Jordan and Lebanon are in the EU.
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Old 8th January 2019, 11:39 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Isn't it odd when 'some' people repeatedly advocate open borders and detail their wish to admit foreign terrorists and criminals into the country... then pretend that they never actually said any of it?
Presumably, if anyone has actually said that, it will be trivially easy for you to identify specifically where they said it.

Quote:
Isn't it odd when 'some' people prefer to fill the country with criminals and economic migrants resulting in genuine refugees being crowded out?
Oh, please tell us who these people are, and when they actually said that....

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Old 8th January 2019, 11:43 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
But according to you, they should be claiming asylum in Lebanon, Jordan or Turkey.
Or Israel or Iraq. Yes. They should.

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Then there is the issue of there is no such think as a visa for asylum...

https://www.gov.uk/claim-asylum

"To be eligible you must have left your country and be unable to go back because you fear persecution.
Apply for a visa if you want to come to the UK for another reason (for example to work, study or remain with family)."

So, again, how does a Syrian legally enter the UK directly from Syria so as to claim asylum?

Or do you now accept that it is wrong to say that only those who can get here directly and legally should be able to claim asylum, because it is not possible to do that?
They shouldn't be trying to come to the UK to claim asylum
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Old 8th January 2019, 11:49 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
Or Israel or Iraq. Yes. They should.

They shouldn't be trying to come to the UK to claim asylum
Why not?
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Old 8th January 2019, 12:22 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Presumably, if anyone has actually said that, it will be trivially easy for you to identify specifically where they said it.


Oh, please tell us who these people are, and when they actually said that....
He already did that in post #158

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=158

Please try to keep up!
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Old 8th January 2019, 12:55 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Presumably, if anyone has actually said that, it will be trivially easy for you to identify specifically where they said it.


Oh, please tell us who these people are, and when they actually said that....
I see you've already been informed of that, so all it remains is for me to say, "Busted."
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Old 8th January 2019, 01:04 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
I see you've already been informed of that, so all it remains is for me to say, "Busted."

A. Archie is a person (singular), not people (plural).

B. What you quoted him saying isn't exactly the same as your blanket claim.

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Old 8th January 2019, 02:02 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
Or Israel or Iraq. Yes. They should.



They shouldn't be trying to come to the UK to claim asylum
Why not?
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Old 8th January 2019, 02:07 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Some are. Some are not. I have no clue why you're arguing about it. Ten thousand people a year are granted asylum in the UK, a small minority are taken from refugee camps in chartered airlines, an even smaller minority cross the Channel on boat or under wagons, yet you're asking people to believe that either

a) This doesn't happen and it's all a big con
b) All these people have criminal records
I am not asking people to believe that, you are lying.

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As I've explained that applies to passing through customs on false pretences. It is not even a legal requirement for an asylum seeker to have a visa! There is additional protection given to those people who feel they have no choice but to fly on forged documents or under an assumed identity. You can quibble all day about the technicalities of what constitutes false information but the fact is coming over on a tourist visa (or no visa at all) then claiming asylum is not illegal and a person doing so will not be prosecuted for that alone. They may have their claim rejected but they will not be subject to legal proceedings unless they enter the UK on that basis without informing immigration control.
It was me who evidenced to you that asylum seekers usually had to enter illegally, but that was not an issue as they had no choice and so long as they claim asylum asap on arrival, they are not treated as illegals.

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I'm waiting for you to show how Turkey, Jordan and Lebanon are in the EU.
I did not claim they were.
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Old 8th January 2019, 04:35 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
He already did that in post #158

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=158

Please try to keep up!
So the right wingers would prefer a known terrorist on the loose in Saudi Arabia, Syria or Spain than sitting in a UK prison? Seriously? You would have to explain that one to me.
Of course its just more **** smearing that when their views on asylum seekers are shown to be nonsense they indulge in conflating the issue with anything else they can find to throw at furriners.
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Old 8th January 2019, 05:33 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Why not?
1) It's easier to integrate into a society when the cultures are similar. 2) Except for maybe Iraq, any country bordering on Syria is a safe haven. They don't need to go any further. 3) The UK is already overcrowded. 4) It's easier for refugees to return home when it it safe if they don't stray to far from their homeland. 5) The UK doesn't benefit in anyway from these people.
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Old 8th January 2019, 06:45 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
So the right wingers would prefer a known terrorist on the loose in Saudi Arabia, Syria or Spain than sitting in a UK prison? Seriously? You would have to explain that one to me.
If you have ONE "known terrorist on the loose in Saudi Arabia, Syria or Spain, then at least intelligence services can keep track of him. However, if the UK were to adopt the policy having a completely open borders i.e., allowing anyone to come to your country totally unrestricted with no checks (which is what you advocate) this is going to allow any number of unknown terrorists into the country with no way to check on them.

I'd rather see the former than the latter

Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Of course its just more **** smearing that when their views on asylum seekers are shown to be nonsense different frop mine they indulge in conflating the issue with anything else they can find to throw at furriners.
FTFY
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Old 8th January 2019, 10:09 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
1) It's easier to integrate into a society when the cultures are similar. 2) Except for maybe Iraq, any country bordering on Syria is a safe haven. They don't need to go any further. 3) The UK is already overcrowded. 4) It's easier for refugees to return home when it it safe if they don't stray to far from their homeland. 5) The UK doesn't benefit in anyway from these people.
1) What if the culture is of less importance than, say, repressive autocracy and those are all next door, too? What if there's a colonial historical connections and other commonalities you're overlooking. This is a literally centuries-old xenophobic platitude. "We just don't mix!" Also, regardless of whether genuinely or cleverly cloaked in this pseud-intellectual excuse is that it does, absolutely, discriminate against someone for their place of origin, utterly violating their dignity as a person.

2) Turkey borders Syria. Is Turkey a good option for a Kurdish refugee? Things are a good deal more complicated than "closer options are always better."

3) In what context?

4) Same as #2. The Kurd in question is now in prison for terrorism, can they get home easier than if they were doing migratory work around the EU for a couple of years? What does an Alawite from Homs have to go home to at all, really? How about the girl who renounced Islam trapped in Bangkok, maybe after a few years she'll go back? We still don't know what happened to the last girl who did. Again, this kind of thinking that shows absolutely no willingness to understand the frame of perspective of a person who's got something to actually run away from or who has nothing to return to.

5) Disgusting.

I've never understood the idea "Anyone not already born in a peaceful, prosperous land had better really work to prove themselves worthy of what I was **** out of a vagina with automatically."

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Old 9th January 2019, 02:44 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
1) It's easier to integrate into a society when the cultures are similar. 2) Except for maybe Iraq, any country bordering on Syria is a safe haven. They don't need to go any further. 3) The UK is already overcrowded. 4) It's easier for refugees to return home when it it safe if they don't stray to far from their homeland. 5) The UK doesn't benefit in anyway from these people.
An asylum seeker is someone who has to leave for fear of their life and cannot safely live in their home country. The UK should take a share of asylum seekers and not leave responsibility to other countries.

I agree refugees from war, who have left because of the war, are better to stay in nearby countries and then return to help rebuild.

The UK does benefit from refugees and asylum seekers as they generate more income than they use.
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Old 9th January 2019, 03:04 AM   #238
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
An asylum seeker is someone who allegedly has to leave for fear of their life and cannot safely live in their home country. The UK should take a share of asylum seekers and not leave responsibility to other countries.

I agree refugees from war, who have left because of the war, are better to stay in nearby countries and then return to help rebuild.

The UK does benefit from refugees and asylum seekers as they generate more income than they use.
FTFY.

Do you seriously believe that all asylum seekers are trying to reach other countries because they are in fear of their lives?
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Old 9th January 2019, 03:11 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
It was me who evidenced to you that asylum seekers usually had to enter illegally, but that was not an issue as they had no choice and so long as they claim asylum asap on arrival, they are not treated as illegals.
Assume for one minute you're right, which you are certainly not; what difference does it make?

1) A person claims asylum, turns up and is grant asylum, all fully legal.

2) A person claims asylum, turns up and is granted asylum although somewhere in there is a technical illegality that is not acted upon.

Practically speaking it's the same thing.

Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
If you have ONE "known terrorist on the loose in Saudi Arabia, Syria or Spain, then at least intelligence services can keep track of him. However, if the UK were to adopt the policy having a completely open borders i.e., allowing anyone to come to your country totally unrestricted with no checks (which is what you advocate) this is going to allow any number of unknown terrorists into the country with no way to check on them.

I'd rather see the former than the latter
And of course, AGG appears not consider the fact that terrorists are rarely locked up for full life terms. So he is advocating that a convicted terrorist who has, say, bombed a marketplace, and has served 25 years, is to be welcomed into UK society. The same for criminals - paedophiles, rapists, murderers, very few serve full life terms so he is happy for types to turn up as well.

And that applies to even active terrorists and serious criminals. If they are tried in the UK we again must deal with the fact that they are almost certain not to get full life terms (providing the evidence can be gathered to convict them in the first place, which is in itself unlikely). Therefore they will be back on the streets with 5, 10, 20 years, to murder and rape again in the UK.

Make no mistake, this is what AGG wants. I have followed his posts and far from being concerned with the plight of refugees, he wants chaos in the UK, aligned with the extreme left's agenda for civil disorder and anarchy. Don't be fooled.
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Old 9th January 2019, 03:12 AM   #240
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To expand on my last post, I come into contact with a large number of immigrants to Australia as part of my job. Hard not to, as there is a very large proportion of our population born overseas. Most have arrived here after going through the long process of seeking visas of various types and then trying to gain permanent residency. Some have spoken with bitterness of those who have come here via people smugglers. They see them as denying places in our limited, but still large by world standards, immigrant intake from those who have taken the longer and proper pathway.
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