ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 7th January 2019, 02:11 AM   #281
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 6,865
Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
Why is no one in the pundit sphere raising this point? The Rs are all fired up about a goddamned Wall as though there's an ongoing invasion of killers swarming across the boarder. But already, Americans are slaughtering each other by gunfire at the rate of at least *TEN* 9/11s *every year*! One would think the far larger cause of casualties would take a higher priority, n'est pas?

I mean, the bloody pearl-clutchers go all apoplectic when *ONE* illegal kills a Yank. Yet they blithely accept the demise of 30,000+ of their fellows each year as being just fine 'cause it's good ol' citizens expressing their God-given right to bear arms.

Tackle the glaring, shameful and more egregious problem of gun deaths that pretty much every civilized country has amply demonstrated the working solution to, then move on to the less calamitous but more intractable issue of illegal immigration.

The complete flipping upside down of priorities, proportion and common sense makes me wanna scream at the idiocy. It's like watching someone fretting over a hangnail while the finger is gangrenous. Come on, America!
Well said.
I suspect this wall nonsense has more to do with directing attention away from the Mueller investigation than anything else. He needs his base all riled up on his side and his approval numbers to go up. After all, Trump thinks no one can impeach him if he's "doing a great job".
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2019, 04:20 AM   #282
Norman Alexander
Illuminator
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 4,663
Tell him he can have his money as long as they build his wall on the northern borders of Arizona, New Mexico and Texas. They used to be Mexican territories originally.
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2019, 07:17 AM   #283
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 20,708
Originally Posted by BadBoy View Post
Maybe, but couldn't this be seen as western interference and USA imperialism by spreading unwanted western values (progressive values) and culture (Disney) to countries that don't want it?

I do wonder if the Dems have picked the wrong issue here. It is so easy for Trump to pedal his disinformation and lies regarding the wall in a way that may backfire on the people opposing it. I think they need to chose their battles more carefully.

One of the reasons Trump won was he played to particular base that generally had an unsophisticated view of the world, and he is still riding that train. Why would anyone think that's changed. Of course I am talking politics here, not what's right.
You may be right, but I don't think so. Most Americans don't view these people as an invading horde of criminals and terrorists. Despite Trump's portrayal of them, most see them for what they are. Just human beings trying to better their own living conditions, like their own ancestors. This is only an issue in the minds of racists and xenophobes.

Also, you keep talking like Trump's win was some landslide instead of the electoral fluke it was. Trump lost by 3 million votes and carried out tiny majorities in swing states because everyone thought Hillary would win and some didn't turnout. If Trump is on the ballot, I'm convinced that there will be a huge turnout an Trump will be trounced.
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2019, 07:24 AM   #284
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 16,466
Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Seriously, I've never gotten the impression that anyone's objection has been about the material "the wall" was supposed to be made out of.
Of course it isn't.

Let's hit the "I believe button" and pretend there is some invading horde coming at us from the South. And let's go even further into the Land of Make Believe and pretend a giant wall is a viable solution to that. And let's go even further into this fantasy land and let's say we actually could built the wall for the proposed 5 billion. (At this point we're so far into fantasy land that we might as well call in the Avengers to stop them and not bother with the wall, but whatever.)

The Dems have proposed 1.5 billion for a broader "Border security." That could probably build a few walls/fences are high traffic areas and border crossings and increase patrols and sensors along the rest of it. Within our made up scenario that Trump is arguing from, that would at least help. He could get that, improve the problem, and argue for the rest of the money for the rest of the wall later.

That's why this whole thing is insane. Even if we accept "The Wall" as something we need, there's no reason it has to be completely funded now. Hell it would take several years to build. We could fund it in sections.
__________________
- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset
- "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal
- "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2019, 07:27 AM   #285
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 15,929
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
You may be right, but I don't think so. Most Americans don't view these people as an invading horde of criminals and terrorists. Despite Trump's portrayal of them, most see them for what they are. Just human beings trying to better their own living conditions, like their own ancestors. This is only an issue in the minds of racists and xenophobes.

Also, you keep talking like Trump's win was some landslide instead of the electoral fluke it was. Trump lost by 3 million votes and carried out tiny majorities in swing states because everyone thought Hillary would win and some didn't turnout. If Trump is on the ballot, I'm convinced that there will be a huge turnout an Trump will be trounced.
When has opposing trump backfired for a democrat?

Along with the popular vote thing you mentioned, he can't get his approval above 43% and he got crushed in the midterms.

This notion that Trump is actually able to make a situation backfire on someone is not supported by the evidence.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2019, 09:00 AM   #286
Beelzebuddy
Philosopher
 
Beelzebuddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,596
I'm just glad to see Democrats FINALLY realizing that the GOP is not actually interested in any sort of compromise no matter what they might say at the time.

I think that in addition to zero wall funding, the House bill needs to incorporate a measure funding repairs and reimbursements caused by the shutdown, pass it through, and then make it clear the only reason there's a shutdown is because McConnell won't hold a vote. It's not about Trump anymore, he's going to have his little toddler meltdown regardless, but start to put some actual pressure on McConnell enabling him.
Beelzebuddy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2019, 09:09 AM   #287
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 16,466
Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
I think that in addition to zero wall funding, the House bill needs to incorporate a measure funding repairs and reimbursements caused by the shutdown, pass it through, and then make it clear the only reason there's a shutdown is because McConnell won't hold a vote. It's not about Trump anymore, he's going to have his little toddler meltdown regardless, but start to put some actual pressure on McConnell enabling him.
In the past I've used the metaphor of Trump as the Joker in the Dark Knight with the Republicans being the Mob and the Democrats being Batman with Alfred's whole "You crossed the line first, sir. You squeezed them, you hammered them to the point of desperation. And in their desperation, they turned to a man they didn't fully understand." line.

I think to add t that with what the Democrats need to do is be Harvey Dent when talking to Sal Maroni.

"The Joker's just a mad dog. I want whoever let him off the leash."

Because you're correct Trump is gonna Trump. And after a certain point if you keep handing a gun to a chimp and the chimp keeps shooting people you stop blaming the chimp.
__________________
- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset
- "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal
- "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC

Last edited by JoeMorgue; 7th January 2019 at 09:19 AM.
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2019, 10:34 AM   #288
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 19,453
e-Verify is administered by DHS, and it's down due to the shutdown.

https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtoo...ers-hr-do.aspx
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2019, 10:49 AM   #289
varwoche
Penultimate Amazing
 
varwoche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 12,603
At some point even the Justice Dept will be out of gas. Hmm.
__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
varwoche is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2019, 12:17 PM   #290
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 45,419
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
In the past I've used the metaphor of Trump as the Joker in the Dark Knight with the Republicans being the Mob and the Democrats being Batman with Alfred's whole "You crossed the line first, sir. You squeezed them, you hammered them to the point of desperation. And in their desperation, they turned to a man they didn't fully understand." line.
How did the democrats squeeze the republicans? It isn't like they were out of power in 2016. Republicans just continued on their way as normal and it lead them to Trump.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2019, 12:55 PM   #291
Norman Alexander
Illuminator
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 4,663
Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
I'm just glad to see Democrats FINALLY realizing that the GOP is not actually interested in any sort of compromise no matter what they might say at the time.

I think that in addition to zero wall funding, the House bill needs to incorporate a measure funding repairs and reimbursements caused by the shutdown, pass it through, and then make it clear the only reason there's a shutdown is because McConnell won't hold a vote. It's not about Trump anymore, he's going to have his little toddler meltdown regardless, but start to put some actual pressure on McConnell enabling him.
I believe that's the battle plan already. And I suspect that it is already starting. Pelosi's bills for continuation will be the first shots in this. And I think Mitch will cave when the public focus and pressure gets too much.
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2019, 01:02 PM   #292
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 47,691
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
I believe that's the battle plan already. And I suspect that it is already starting. Pelosi's bills for continuation will be the first shots in this. And I think Mitch will cave when the public focus and pressure gets too much.
When Mitch is subjected to extreme stress he starts leaking embalming fluid through his seams. Let's pay close attention to photos and video footage to see any signs.
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2019, 02:46 PM   #293
Jerrymander
Critical Thinker
 
Jerrymander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 410
The Democrats in the Senate want to block Senate bills until McConnell opens up bill to fund the government. That's more like it.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...shutdown-bills
Jerrymander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2019, 02:50 PM   #294
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 43,218
Originally Posted by Jerrymander View Post
The Democrats in the Senate want to block Senate bills until McConnell opens up bill to fund the government. That's more like it.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...shutdown-bills
Use the Senate rules that Mcconell use to be a dictator in the Senate against him.
I like it.
Franky, the Senate really needs to get rid of these archaic rules,but until then the Dems would b eidiots not to use them to their advantage.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2019, 04:59 PM   #295
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator
 
Foolmewunz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 40,000
What's the bet on the speech he's called for tonight? I don't think his polling is negative enough yet, but when even YouGov and Rasmussen show him at -8 and -7 respectively, and the overall conservative RCP average at -11, he's going to be looking for an out. He may try jack up his polls tonight but his jingoism and fear-mongering aren't working, even on his rabid base.

Pelosi now has higher favorables than Trump. Fivethirty-eight shows his overall average negative at -12.

It's all about the popularity and he will be looking for some ploy to be able to claim a Win. Not sure if it'll be in this presentation or come later in the week but it'll break this week, I think.
__________________
Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
Foolmewunz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2019, 05:37 PM   #296
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator
 
Foolmewunz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 40,000
Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
I'm just glad to see Democrats FINALLY realizing that the GOP is not actually interested in any sort of compromise no matter what they might say at the time.

I think that in addition to zero wall funding, the House bill needs to incorporate a measure funding repairs and reimbursements caused by the shutdown, pass it through, and then make it clear the only reason there's a shutdown is because McConnell won't hold a vote. It's not about Trump anymore, he's going to have his little toddler meltdown regardless, but start to put some actual pressure on McConnell enabling him.
I read a conservative pundit tying to keep the con going... claiming that Mitch's blockage was only a move he needed when Obama was president, ignoring that he's continued doing the same thing.

The Dems aren't going to fall for another "Here, you just pass this one for us and we'll protect DACA for you.... trust us!" Mitch has to deliver on something that actually shows he understands what the word "compromise" means. He can't (well he can but it'll be suicidal for the GOP) do Garland redux and say he's waiting for a GOP Congress in 2020. A) That ain't gonna happen. B) The Tea Party Lite faction are as much against do-nothing legislators as they are for the stupid wall.
__________________
Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
Foolmewunz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2019, 05:43 PM   #297
BadBoy
Graduate Poster
 
BadBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,414
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Also, you keep talking like Trump's win was some landslide instead of the electoral fluke it was.
I don't mean to. I know he lost the popular vote. I think it maybe sounds like that because given who he was/is he did something totally unexpected and remarkable. It's not that it was a land slide, it's that it wasn't a total humiliating defeat for him.

I think it was for Hillary to lose, he won by default.

My issue is that he could do it all again if the planets align again which would be truly tragic. The Dem's (or even a republican candidate), given the right person, should be able to wipe the floor with him in a debate and election campaign if they are clever about it. I didn't pay much attention in 2016 as I assumed Clinton would win but I am still surprised, based on his current performance (his lies and complete inability to put together and articulate an intellectual argument of any kind) that he wasn't completely taken apart in the debates leading up to the election.

My observation is that Immigration has always been a hot potato for many democratic countries as most need it, but know it's often a political disaster openly supporting it. I think Brexit was all about immigration. It could not have been about the economy since that is too complicated to understand. People incorrectly linked European Union with illegal immigrants and asylum seekers, and it's all just bull. The stay campaign should have been all about staying in Europe, but with much tighter immigration controls etc. They should have found a way to take the wind out of the leave campaigns message and fear mongering.

So, I think the Dems would be better off taking the steam out of the issue by just agreeing with him (to a degree), and then concentrate on all the other stupid stuff he does. I mean unless the US has got so bad it's un-salvageable and the majority so stupid they would vote for him a second time, it should be a slam-dunk. It theirs to lose (again) IMO.
__________________
Go sell crazy someplace else we're all stocked up here

Last edited by BadBoy; 7th January 2019 at 05:48 PM.
BadBoy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2019, 05:54 PM   #298
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Alexandria, VA Home to the Deep State.
Posts: 17,719
Originally Posted by Jerrymander View Post
The Democrats in the Senate want to block Senate bills until McConnell opens up bill to fund the government. That's more like it.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...shutdown-bills
Now the House needs to attaching funding the government to everything that goes to a conference committee.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2019, 06:42 PM   #299
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 20,708
Originally Posted by BadBoy View Post
I don't mean to. I know he lost the popular vote. I think it maybe sounds like that because given who he was/is he did something totally unexpected and remarkable. It's not that it was a land slide, it's that it wasn't a total humiliating defeat for him.

I think it was for Hillary to lose, he won by default.

My issue is that he could do it all again if the planets align again which would be truly tragic. The Dem's (or even a republican candidate), given the right person, should be able to wipe the floor with him in a debate and election campaign if they are clever about it. I didn't pay much attention in 2016 as I assumed Clinton would win but I am still surprised, based on his current performance (his lies and complete inability to put together and articulate an intellectual argument of any kind) that he wasn't completely taken apart in the debates leading up to the election.

My observation is that Immigration has always been a hot potato for many democratic countries as most need it, but know it's often a political disaster openly supporting it. I think Brexit was all about immigration. It could not have been about the economy since that is too complicated to understand. People incorrectly linked European Union with illegal immigrants and asylum seekers, and it's all just bull. The stay campaign should have been all about staying in Europe, but with much tighter immigration controls etc. They should have found a way to take the wind out of the leave campaigns message and fear mongering.

So, I think the Dems would be better off taking the steam out of the issue by just agreeing with him (to a degree), and then concentrate on all the other stupid stuff he does. I mean unless the US has got so bad it's un-salvageable and the majority so stupid they would vote for him a second time, it should be a slam-dunk. It theirs to lose (again) IMO.
I get the point. And certainly, it has some merit. That said, the US is a nation of immigrants. The statue of liberty says:
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

That history isn't lost on us. Two of the President's three wives are immigrants. There aren't many Americans whos ancestry is indigenous. Every single one of my Great Grandparents were immigrants.

But demonizing immigrants has been a political strategy going back to the 19th century. It's based on xenophobia. Trump's has capitalized on it. But his approach has been disingenuous. When he calls the illegal immigrants who come through our Southern border criminals, rapists and terrorists, he's grossly exaggerating. And most people, I think realize it.

It would be one thing if Trump argued that by restricting immigration more, the nation would benefit by it. Although that can be debated. That wouldn't bother me so much. I believe that honest debate is essential for a healthy democracy. But Trump is so disingenuous and racist, it makes me want to vomit. While certainly some of the people entering the country illegally are real criminals, they are smaller in percentage than the people here.

Finally, the other problem I have with the wall is that it is ineffective and a waste of resources.
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume

Last edited by acbytesla; 7th January 2019 at 06:43 PM.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2019, 06:49 PM   #300
Norman Alexander
Illuminator
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 4,663
I've got my fingers crossed that Trump's little speech-i-poo is "That's it, I'm taking a pension and buggering off to Sochi. Mike Pence will take it from here. See ya, suckers!"
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2019, 07:07 PM   #301
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Alexandria, VA Home to the Deep State.
Posts: 17,719
Um...has anyone noticed that there were two important hearings from the Mueller investigation today?
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2019, 07:12 PM   #302
Norman Alexander
Illuminator
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 4,663
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Um...has anyone noticed that there were two important hearings from the Mueller investigation today?
Perhaps someone from the media will call out some questions about them to Disaster Donny at his presser today. No doubt he will fire back, and there goes the point of his little trip south.
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2019, 07:52 PM   #303
lobosrul5
Graduate Poster
 
lobosrul5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,554
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Tell him he can have his money as long as they build his wall on the northern borders of Arizona, New Mexico and Texas. They used to be Mexican territories originally.
Why'd you leave out Cali?
lobosrul5 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2019, 07:54 PM   #304
Distracted1
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 2,828
Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
Why'd you leave out Cali?
Disneyland?
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.
Distracted1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2019, 08:02 PM   #305
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 20,311
Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
What's the bet on the speech he's called for tonight?
That's still tomorrow for us in the USA!
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2019, 08:14 PM   #306
Norman Alexander
Illuminator
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 4,663
Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
Why'd you leave out Cali?
You would have to turn right down near Vegas then left up near Reno. That would add too much distance.

__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2019, 09:42 PM   #307
timhau
NWO Litter Technician
 
timhau's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I?
Posts: 13,065
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
I've got my fingers crossed that Trump's little speech-i-poo is "That's it, I'm taking a pension and buggering off to Sochi. Mike Pence will take it from here. See ya, suckers!"
He is not capable of that degree of coherence.
__________________
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me.
- Emo Philips
timhau is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2019, 09:44 PM   #308
Norman Alexander
Illuminator
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 4,663
Originally Posted by timhau View Post
He is not capable of that degree of coherence.
It seems to be his usual bankruptcy MO...
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2019, 09:56 PM   #309
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 6,985
I don't see how Trump can BS his way out of this: people are being hurt for no apparent reason.
i'm wondering if McConnell isn't actually pleased with Trump being seen as the culprit and Republicans as only loyal followers: this might be enough rope for Trump to hang himself and get replaced by Pence, which of course is what The Turtle wants.
That would explain why he doesn't try to fix the situation at all.
__________________
Opinion is divided on the subject. All the others say it is; I say it isn’t.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2019, 09:58 PM   #310
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 29,755
Norman Goldman predicted something that I believe has a high possibility of happening. Trump will pull the trigger on calling a national emergency so he can fund the wall. Democrats and others will file suit and call for a block of the action. The courts will put a pause on funding the wall with emergency funds. Trump will claim victory for funding the wall, but will sign legislation to fund the government again. According to Norm, this is likely to happen by the end of the week.

I can believe this because Trump wants a win and Trump also doesn't care about whether his action is legal or not. The wall will not begin construction for the entire period Trump is in office because of this action, and will be entangled in court for years. This will give Trump a talking point to keep up with the bashing of brown immigrants in order to appease his racist base. (redundant term, his base is all racist)
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

Last edited by thaiboxerken; 7th January 2019 at 09:59 PM.
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2019, 09:59 PM   #311
Norman Alexander
Illuminator
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 4,663
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Norman Goldman predicted something that I believe has a high possibility of happening. Trump will pull the trigger on calling a national emergency so he can fund the wall. Democrats and others will file suit and call for a block of the action. The courts will put a pause on funding the wall with emergency funds. Trump will claim victory for funding the wall, but will sign legislation to fund the government again. According to Norm, this is likely to happen by the end of the week.

I can believe this because Trump wants a win and Trump also doesn't care about whether his action is legal or not.
[donny] What's this "legal" thing you talk about?? [/donny]
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2019, 10:10 PM   #312
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 20,708
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Norman Goldman predicted something that I believe has a high possibility of happening. Trump will pull the trigger on calling a national emergency so he can fund the wall. Democrats and others will file suit and call for a block of the action. The courts will put a pause on funding the wall with emergency funds. Trump will claim victory for funding the wall, but will sign legislation to fund the government again. According to Norm, this is likely to happen by the end of the week.

I can believe this because Trump wants a win and Trump also doesn't care about whether his action is legal or not. The wall will not begin construction for the entire period Trump is in office because of this action, and will be entangled in court for years. This will give Trump a talking point to keep up with the bashing of brown immigrants in order to appease his racist base. (redundant term, his base is all racist)

I posted pretty much the same idea within 20 minutes of reading Trump's national emergency idea. It allows him to save face. And frankly, I think its what he should do. Let it get fought out in the courts.
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2019, 10:18 PM   #313
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 6,985
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I posted pretty much the same idea within 20 minutes of reading Trump's national emergency idea. It allows him to save face. And frankly, I think its what he should do. Let it get fought out in the courts.
More importantly for his ego, he thinks it makes him look tough.

Of course, this would set precedent for President Warren to fund Universal Healthcare via National Emergency ...

This is probably why Republicans aren't in favor, since the GOP LOVES holding the purse strings.
__________________
Opinion is divided on the subject. All the others say it is; I say it isn’t.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2019, 10:50 PM   #314
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 20,708
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
More importantly for his ego, he thinks it makes him look tough.

Of course, this would set precedent for President Warren to fund Universal Healthcare via National Emergency ...

This is probably why Republicans aren't in favor, since the GOP LOVES holding the purse strings.
It wouldn't as I would fully expect the courts to say no as they did with Harry Truman during the KOREAN WAR.

But it gets every one out of this mess where no one is willing to give an inch. The court won't decide for 6 months to a year and by that time it won't matter much.

Something like this is necessary at this point.
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2019, 10:54 PM   #315
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 29,755
I think it would also be a political loss for him to anyone outside of his base.
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2019, 12:00 AM   #316
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 6,865
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Norman Goldman predicted something that I believe has a high possibility of happening. Trump will pull the trigger on calling a national emergency so he can fund the wall. Democrats and others will file suit and call for a block of the action. The courts will put a pause on funding the wall with emergency funds. Trump will claim victory for funding the wall, but will sign legislation to fund the government again. According to Norm, this is likely to happen by the end of the week.

I can believe this because Trump wants a win and Trump also doesn't care about whether his action is legal or not. The wall will not begin construction for the entire period Trump is in office because of this action, and will be entangled in court for years. This will give Trump a talking point to keep up with the bashing of brown immigrants in order to appease his racist base. (redundant term, his base is all racist)
I also posted that he would likely declare a national emergency tomorrow but that it would get caught up in the courts.

I also think that the only "win" will be in Trump's mind and in those of his base. Two out of three of his biggest campaign promises will go unfulfilled (The Wall and replacing the ACA). His only 'win' will be the tax cuts which will, in the future, prove to be a bad idea. His meetings with Kim will produce nothing of value which as has been born out so far.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2019, 04:42 AM   #317
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 20,708
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I also posted that he would likely declare a national emergency tomorrow but that it would get caught up in the courts.

I also think that the only "win" will be in Trump's mind and in those of his base. Two out of three of his biggest campaign promises will go unfulfilled (The Wall and replacing the ACA). His only 'win' will be the tax cuts which will, in the future, prove to be a bad idea. His meetings with Kim will produce nothing of value which as has been born out so far.
No, 3 for 3. He also said he would save the coal miners jobs. And coal mines continue to close and the jobs keep disappearing.
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2019, 06:35 AM   #318
Arcade22
Illuminator
 
Arcade22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 4,926
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Norman Goldman predicted something that I believe has a high possibility of happening. Trump will pull the trigger on calling a national emergency so he can fund the wall. Democrats and others will file suit and call for a block of the action. The courts will put a pause on funding the wall with emergency funds. Trump will claim victory for funding the wall, but will sign legislation to fund the government again. According to Norm, this is likely to happen by the end of the week.

I can believe this because Trump wants a win and Trump also doesn't care about whether his action is legal or not. The wall will not begin construction for the entire period Trump is in office because of this action, and will be entangled in court for years. This will give Trump a talking point to keep up with the bashing of brown immigrants in order to appease his racist base. (redundant term, his base is all racist)
Yes something like that is one way for Trump to try and weasel himself out of this even though it's highly questionable if anything would end up being built.
__________________
Freedom you all want, you want freedom. Why then do you haggle over a more or less? Freedom can only be the whole of freedom; a piece of freedom is not freedom. You despair of the possibility of obtaining the whole of freedom, freedom from everything - yes, you consider it insanity even to wish this? - Well, then leave off chasing after the phantom, and spend your pains on something better than the - unattainable. - Max Stirner
Arcade22 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2019, 06:44 AM   #319
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 16,466
I don't know if Trump is the kind of guy who is going to be happy with "technically correct."

Trump's, in his head, is all about the sell. He'll sell you swamp and call it a luxury resort, but I think part of his insanity is at the end of it he has to think he's sold you a luxury resort to. He has to believe his own B.S to at least some degree to be happy.

Trump is not going to end until he has something he can think of as a wall. Sure he would accept all manner of "Not the wall he wants" just to save face, but it's gonna have to be something that... scratches the "Wall" itch.
__________________
- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset
- "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal
- "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2019, 06:50 AM   #320
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 20,708
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I don't know if Trump is the kind of guy who is going to be happy with "technically correct."

Trump's, in his head, is all about the sell. He'll sell you swamp and call it a luxury resort, but I think part of his insanity is at the end of it he has to think he's sold you a luxury resort to. He has to believe his own B.S to at least some degree to be happy.

Trump is not going to end until he has something he can think of as a wall. Sure he would accept all manner of "Not the wall he wants" just to save face, but it's gonna have to be something that... scratches the "Wall" itch.
I don't agree.

I don't think Trump actually cares about 'the wall'. I do believe he cares way too much about looking weak and foolish.
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:35 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.