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Tags hurricanes , natural disasters , Puerto Rico incidents

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Old 8th August 2018, 09:14 AM   #401
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Well after a short 11 months they are now almost done restoring power.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/07/us/pu...rnd/index.html
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Old 9th August 2018, 09:26 AM   #402
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I read yesterday that the death toll in PR from Maria has been officially, if quietly, acknowledged to be 1142, IIRC
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Old 29th August 2018, 11:47 AM   #403
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https://www.yahoo.com/news/white-hou...223209775.html

The death toll is estimated to be 2975.

Quote:
Puerto Rico’s governor on Tuesday raised the U.S. territory’s official death toll from 64 to 2,975 after an independent study. That’s almost twice the government’s previous estimate.

The new estimate of 2,975 dead in the six months after Maria devastated the island in September 2017 was made by researchers with the Milken Institute School of Public Health at George Washington University. It was released Tuesday.
This is shameful that we can't protect our own people better.

Quote:
She says President Donald Trump “remains proud of all of the work the Federal family undertook to help our fellow citizens in Puerto Rico.”
I'm waiting for Trump and Co to challenge the figures.

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Old 29th August 2018, 12:01 PM   #404
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Trump took full credit for the artificially low numbers of official deaths shortly after the hurricane.
The actual very high number is obviously Robert Mueller's fault.
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Old 29th August 2018, 12:12 PM   #405
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If you are not a White member of Trump's "Base", you don't matter in Trump's America.
End of story.
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Old 29th August 2018, 12:21 PM   #406
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I always thought that "No taxation without representation" was supposed to resonate in the US.

How does that square with Puerto Rico's status?
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Old 29th August 2018, 12:25 PM   #407
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
I always thought that "No taxation without representation" was supposed to resonate in the US.

How does that square with Puerto Rico's status?
It's... weird. They do pay some taxes but not all and they have representation in Congress... thee representatives just can't vote. They also have no say in the Presidency since without being a state they have no Electorals. Which leads to this weird double standard where Americans leaving abroad in totally foreign countries can vote but Americans living in America just not in a state can't.

I do agree that it's all B.S. and Puerto Rico needs to be either a state or fully independent.
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Old 29th August 2018, 12:43 PM   #408
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
It's... weird. They do pay some taxes but not all and they have representation in Congress... thee representatives just can't vote. They also have no say in the Presidency since without being a state they have no Electorals. Which leads to this weird double standard where Americans leaving abroad in totally foreign countries can vote but Americans living in America just not in a state can't.

I do agree that it's all B.S. and Puerto Rico needs to be either a state or fully independent.
And time and time again in polls, Puerto Ricans have supported Commonwealth status.
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Old 29th August 2018, 12:53 PM   #409
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And time and time again in polls, Puerto Ricans have supported Commonwealth status.
Which is also... kinda weird.

But regardless I'd be perfectly fine with the US Government giving Puerto Rico a "crap or get off the pot" ultimatum but leaving the choice whether to crap or get off the pot to them.

It's 2018 we aren't empire building anymore.
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Old 29th August 2018, 01:25 PM   #410
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And time and time again in polls, Puerto Ricans have supported Commonwealth status.


The last vote was 97% in favor of becoming a state. Of course the GOP will never let that happen with DC and American Samoa's purgatories.
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Old 29th August 2018, 02:03 PM   #411
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post


The last vote was 97% in favor of becoming a state. Of course the GOP will never let that happen with DC and American Samoa's purgatories.
The voter turnout was 23% in that election, which was boycotted by anti-statehood forces. I can't believe The Atlantic didn't emphasize that. It makes the article incredibly misleading.

As I recall, the reason for the boycott was there was some funny business about exactly what was being voted on. There are three options available, statehood, independence, and status quo. Any time there are more than two options in an election, it's impossible to be certain exactly which option is most popular. (Seriously. Look up "the election theorem") In this case, the "status quo" faction felt that the way the ballot was held would artificially inflate the support for statehood, so they boycotted.

I tend to agree with Joe Morgue that the US ought to demand the Puerto Ricans vote either in our out, and do away with this sort of intermediate status, but I feel that way about every US territory. Once you start trying to figure out what to do with the US Virgin Islands, the Northern Marianas, and Midway Atoll, it gets sticky, and it's understandable why politicians don't want to touch it with a 10 foot poll (pun, and misspelling, intended). So, although it would make sense to do away with the concept of "territory" for the US, I can understand why it won't happen.


Nevertheless, what is clear is that the people of Puerto Rico really are US citizens, and the response to Maria was shabby and indeed, shameful. Also, as I said some times early in the thread, there is one guy who could have done something to fix that, and he didn't. I don't blame the president for everything, but this time, it really was his fault.
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Old 29th August 2018, 02:06 PM   #412
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
The voter turnout was 23% in that election, which was boycotted by anti-statehood forces. I can't believe The Atlantic didn't emphasize that. It makes the article incredibly misleading.

As I recall, the reason for the boycott was there was some funny business about exactly what was being voted on. There are three options available, statehood, independence, and status quo. Any time there are more than two options in an election, it's impossible to be certain exactly which option is most popular. (Seriously. Look up "the election theorem") In this case, the "status quo" faction felt that the way the ballot was held would artificially inflate the support for statehood, so they boycotted.

I tend to agree with Joe Morgue that the US ought to demand the Puerto Ricans vote either in our out, and do away with this sort of intermediate status, but I feel that way about every US territory. Once you start trying to figure out what to do with the US Virgin Islands, the Northern Marianas, and Midway Atoll, it gets sticky, and it's understandable why politicians don't want to touch it with a 10 foot poll (pun, and misspelling, intended). So, although it would make sense to do away with the concept of "territory" for the US, I can understand why it won't happen.


Nevertheless, what is clear is that the people of Puerto Rico really are US citizens, and the response to Maria was shabby and indeed, shameful. Also, as I said some times early in the thread, there is one guy who could have done something to fix that, and he didn't. I don't blame the president for everything, but this time, it really was his fault.
And unlike Bush and Katrina, he seems to have got away with it.
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Old 29th August 2018, 03:01 PM   #413
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I tend to agree with Joe Morgue that the US ought to demand the Puerto Ricans vote either in our out, and do away with this sort of intermediate status, but I feel that way about every US territory. Once you start trying to figure out what to do with the US Virgin Islands, the Northern Marianas, and Midway Atoll, it gets sticky, and it's understandable why politicians don't want to touch it with a 10 foot poll (pun, and misspelling, intended). So, although it would make sense to do away with the concept of "territory" for the US, I can understand why it won't happen.
It's not that hard because outside of about half a dozen places all the other places don't have people. I don't give a toss what happens to a bunch of barely island we claimed because we wanted bird poop. They can all just be declared National Parks and be done with.

Puerto Rico, Guam, The Northern Mariana Islands, the Virgin Islands, and America Samoa are really the only ones we should worry about.
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Old 29th August 2018, 03:35 PM   #414
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
It's not that hard because outside of about half a dozen places all the other places don't have people. I don't give a toss what happens to a bunch of barely island we claimed because we wanted bird poop. They can all just be declared National Parks and be done with.

Puerto Rico, Guam, The Northern Mariana Islands, the Virgin Islands, and America Samoa are really the only ones we should worry about.
In terms of practical solutions to problems, it is very easy. In terms of politics, it's much harder. I would like to say, "Forget politics. Let's just do what makes sense." but, well, I don't see that happening.
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Old 30th August 2018, 07:09 AM   #415
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
It's... weird. They do pay some taxes but not all and they have representation in Congress... thee representatives just can't vote. They also have no say in the Presidency since without being a state they have no Electorals. Which leads to this weird double standard where Americans leaving abroad in totally foreign countries can vote but Americans living in America just not in a state can't.

I do agree that it's all B.S. and Puerto Rico needs to be either a state or fully independent.
Yea that isn't going to happen, because congress isn't going to grant them statehood.
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Old 30th August 2018, 07:12 AM   #416
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And time and time again in polls, Puerto Ricans have supported Commonwealth status.
Yes and no. Becoming a state has won or achieved a plurality a couple times those votes just get ignored for various reasons. The last vote 97% voted to become a state. The problem was that it had low voter turnout because the anti state parties convinced people to stay home instead of vote against statehood, so it becomes a real question of how broad the support is.
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Old 30th August 2018, 07:15 AM   #417
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
The voter turnout was 23% in that election, which was boycotted by anti-statehood forces. I can't believe The Atlantic didn't emphasize that. It makes the article incredibly misleading.

As I recall, the reason for the boycott was there was some funny business about exactly what was being voted on. There are three options available, statehood, independence, and status quo. Any time there are more than two options in an election, it's impossible to be certain exactly which option is most popular. (Seriously. Look up "the election theorem") In this case, the "status quo" faction felt that the way the ballot was held would artificially inflate the support for statehood, so they boycotted.

I tend to agree with Joe Morgue that the US ought to demand the Puerto Ricans vote either in our out, and do away with this sort of intermediate status, but I feel that way about every US territory. Once you start trying to figure out what to do with the US Virgin Islands, the Northern Marianas, and Midway Atoll, it gets sticky, and it's understandable why politicians don't want to touch it with a 10 foot poll (pun, and misspelling, intended). So, although it would make sense to do away with the concept of "territory" for the US, I can understand why it won't happen.


Nevertheless, what is clear is that the people of Puerto Rico really are US citizens, and the response to Maria was shabby and indeed, shameful. Also, as I said some times early in the thread, there is one guy who could have done something to fix that, and he didn't. I don't blame the president for everything, but this time, it really was his fault.
The previous statehood previously beat out independence or remaining a commonwealth but was beat out by none of the above.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto...ferendum,_1998
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Old 30th August 2018, 07:17 AM   #418
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
In terms of practical solutions to problems, it is very easy. In terms of politics, it's much harder. I would like to say, "Forget politics. Let's just do what makes sense." but, well, I don't see that happening.
What next you will want people of American Samoa to be american citizens.
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Old 1st September 2018, 05:47 AM   #419
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Vox article about statehood

https://www.vox.com/2018/8/31/177933...rico-statehood

Worth a read - pointing out how the Puerto Rico economy has been hamstrung via the Jones Act and removing tax incentives
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Old 13th September 2018, 06:44 AM   #420
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Freaking Trump. Still tweeting that 6-18 people died in PR as a result of Maria, and claiming 3,000 is a political slam against him.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trum...ry?id=57796141
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Old 13th September 2018, 06:46 AM   #421
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Freaking Trump. Still tweeting that 6-18 people died in PR as a result of Maria, and claiming 3,000 is a political slam against him.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trum...ry?id=57796141
They just died to spite Trump.
Shame on them.
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Old 13th September 2018, 06:50 AM   #422
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Vox article about statehood

https://www.vox.com/2018/8/31/177933...rico-statehood

Worth a read - pointing out how the Puerto Rico economy has been hamstrung via the Jones Act and removing tax incentives
Good read, thanks.
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Old 13th September 2018, 07:17 AM   #423
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Freaking Trump. Still tweeting that 6-18 people died in PR as a result of Maria, and claiming 3,000 is a political slam against him.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trum...ry?id=57796141
" .....This was done by the Democrats in order to make me look as bad as possible when I was successfully raising Billions of Dollars to help rebuild Puerto Rico. If a person died for any reason, like old age, just add them onto the list. Bad politics. I love Puerto Rico!"
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Old 13th September 2018, 11:13 AM   #424
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
" .....This was done by the Democrats in order to make me look as bad as possible when I was successfully raising Billions of Dollars to help rebuild Puerto Rico. If a person died for any reason, like old age, just add them onto the list. Bad politics. I love Puerto Rico!"
I wonder if the stats will show a sudden massive jump in child/infant mortality (?)... and how he'll explain that away.
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Old 13th September 2018, 11:45 AM   #425
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How Trump successfully handled the hurricane that hit Puerto Rico:

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I AGREE

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I AGREE

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I AGREE
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Old 13th September 2018, 01:03 PM   #426
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post


The last vote was 97% in favor of becoming a state. Of course the GOP will never let that happen with DC and American Samoa's purgatories.
I do not want DC to become a state;I am in favor of the Vatican City Solution:
Carve out a small territory ..probably the Mall and it's environs which have almost zero residential population;...retain federal ownership over them,and give the rest od DC back to Maryland.
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Old 15th September 2018, 03:12 PM   #427
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Remember the pallets of bottled water left out in the open? Looks like FEMA is now admitting that they left them out there to save money.

Saving tens of millions for resources that weren't distributed anyways isn't a horrible deal, honestly. That they weren't distributed is a whole different issue, of course.

Also of some relevance to this thread...

Calling out their names. Here are 487 who died in Puerto Rico that Trump denies.
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Old 15th September 2018, 05:28 PM   #428
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Remember the pallets of bottled water left out in the open? Looks like FEMA is now admitting that they left them out there to save money.

Saving tens of millions for resources that weren't distributed anyways isn't a horrible deal, honestly. That they weren't distributed is a whole different issue, of course.

<snip>

From the link;

Quote:
Bahamonde claimed FEMA began moving the water in January because the agency was storing more than 1,100 containers on the island at a cost of about $300,000 per day. FEMA then told the Puerto Rican government in April that it had an excess of supplies and began accepting requests from local agencies to take that surplus off its hands.

They were paying around $300 per container every day for storage container rental?

We never paid that much per month for containers that had been fully fitted out as field offices, complete with doors, windows, electrical wiring, plumbing, and HVAC.

Sounds to me like they could have found some more useful ways to save money. Like not taking price gouging contracts.
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Old 15th September 2018, 05:43 PM   #429
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Remember the pallets of bottled water left out in the open? Looks like FEMA is now admitting that they left them out there to save money.

Saving tens of millions for resources that weren't distributed anyways isn't a horrible deal, honestly. That they weren't distributed is a whole different issue, of course.

Also of some relevance to this thread...

Calling out their names. Here are 487 who died in Puerto Rico that Trump denies.
Not a huge fan of the Democratic Party, but Trump is a complete disaster who neglects the basic welfare of his fellow humans. Obama wasn't perfect but sickening stuff like this never happened under him and you always felt he cared for his fellow man no matter what their beliefs.
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Old 15th September 2018, 07:21 PM   #430
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
From the link;


They were paying around $300 per container every day for storage container rental?

We never paid that much per month for containers that had been fully fitted out as field offices, complete with doors, windows, electrical wiring, plumbing, and HVAC.

Sounds to me like they could have found some more useful ways to save money. Like not taking price gouging contracts.
Trump, of course, still doesn't get what went wrong. His references to the heckuva job he did in the Maria recovery effort totally missed the point, as always. He focused on how they did so much, but it just was so much more difficult because it was an island and had poor infrastructure to begin with. He can't be held responsible for that problem.


Well, yes, you can, Mr. President. That's the point of being President.

The problem with the Maria recovery was precisely that Trump and his administration did indeed treat it just like any other hurricane recovery effort, but with more problems because it was on an island. They tried to follow the same playbook in a different game. If he were a competent man, with a grasp of geography and good organizational skills, he would have recognized that in this case, bottled water was a very bad idea, and he would have had the military in place on day one to start rebuilding washed out bridges, filtering water, setting up pumping stations, and doing all the sorts of things that can only be done by a large force of people ready to move at a moments notice, and who don't need contract negotiations. i.e. the military. Trump could have done that. Only Trump could have done that. Trump didn't do that.


It would have saved lives and been no more expensive, but instead he followed standard procedure. His fault. He is to blame.
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Old 17th September 2018, 05:18 AM   #431
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Unholy mother of Hell.

FEMA chief partially blames Puerto Rico death toll on 'spousal abuse'.
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Old 17th September 2018, 05:47 AM   #432
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I truly thought this would link to an Onion piece.

Don't these people hear themselves?
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Old 17th September 2018, 05:53 AM   #433
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
from the moron:
Quote:
"You might see more indirect deaths occur as time goes on because people have heart attacks due to stress, they fall off their house trying to fix their roof, they die in car crashes because they went through an intersection where the stop lights weren't working.

"The other thing that goes on – there's all kinds of studies on this that we can take a look at – spousal abuse goes through the roof. You can't blame spousal abuse after a disaster on anybody."
so the moron argues that the stress of a disaster increases the likelihood of spousal abuse...
... which would still make it causally linked to the disaster

if it wasn't such a crapload of BS.
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Old 17th September 2018, 12:53 PM   #434
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Originally Posted by Jim_MDP View Post
I wonder if the stats will show a sudden massive jump in child/infant mortality (?)... and how he'll explain that away.
Dumb hispanics don't know how to care for their kids, and we are better off with out them anyway.

Seriously you think republicans care? They like that he didn't go out of his way to help those people. Save the money for real americans.
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Old 17th September 2018, 01:23 PM   #435
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Dumb hispanics don't know how to care for their kids, and we are better off with out them anyway.

Seriously you think republicans care? They like that he didn't go out of his way to help those people. Save the money for real americans.
It was just a "throwaway" thought but now I'm curious.
After the elderly and infirm, small kids would be the most vulnerable. But... they'd also be the most cared for and concerned over by scared parents whose world has just been blown apart.
Six of one, half a dozen of the other... are stats available?
Corelary might be found among child deaths in war zones. Maybe.
If I get to some WiFi I might have a look, but I'm open to being educated.
(Obviously we can't trust anything coming from the "massively corrupt government" in Puerto Rico. )
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Old 17th September 2018, 07:36 PM   #436
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Originally Posted by Jim_MDP View Post
It was just a "throwaway" thought but now I'm curious.
After the elderly and infirm, small kids would be the most vulnerable. But... they'd also be the most cared for and concerned over by scared parents whose world has just been blown apart.
Six of one, half a dozen of the other... are stats available?
Corelary might be found among child deaths in war zones. Maybe.
If I get to some WiFi I might have a look, but I'm open to being educated.
(Obviously we can't trust anything coming from the "massively corrupt government" in Puerto Rico. )

Or anyone else who says anything that isn't praising Trump.
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Old 27th March 2019, 10:01 PM   #437
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Minor update. Trump and his Administration never stopped trying screw over Puerto Rico. They've been incredibly stingy with the funds allocated for rebuilding and food stamps have been cut significantly.
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Old 30th April 2019, 02:13 PM   #438
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AOC and Kellyanne Conway:

Quote:
Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) took to Twitter to shut down criticism from Kellyanne Conway, the often-controversial counselor to President Donald Trump. In a heart-wrenching Twitter thread, AOC clapped back at Conway about the Trump administration’s response (or lack thereof) to the impact of Hurricane Maria on Puerto Rico.
(...)
“On Easter I was away from tech visiting my grandmother in Puerto Rico, which continues to suffer from the White House’s incompetent disaster response,” Ocasio-Cortez wrote. Trump and his administration have faced a contentious battle over aid funding some say isn’t enough. The island’s leaders have been critical of the administration's handling of the disaster, including recently for opposing funding for its food-assistance program; Trump lashed out at the territory’s leaders in the beginning of April.
AOC Called Out Kellyanne Conway Over the Trump Administration's "Incompetent" Response to Hurricane Maria in Puerto Rico (Teen Vogue, April 29, 2019)
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Old 30th April 2019, 02:17 PM   #439
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My heart sinks a little every time I see this thread on New Posts. Just dreading to read how PR is getting screwed again
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Old 13th September 2019, 08:25 AM   #440
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The disaster response from the White House appears to have been much worse than just incompetent.
It was probably downright criminal:

Former Trump Officials Arrested For Fraud In Puerto Rico (Sep. 12, 2019)
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Former FEMA Official Accused of Taking Bribes in Hurricane Maria Recovery (NYT, Sep. 10, 2019)

Trump Administration Officials Arrested for Scamming Puerto Rico Out of $1.8 Billion in Hurricane Relief Funds (The Root, Sep. 11, 2019)
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