Trump's Coup d'état.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by cosmicaug

Indeed. We should all just be thankful that it will be Biden who gets to replace the SCOTUS vacancy left behind when Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg died*.


* Because we obviously must have a vacancy since Mitch McConnell said he would not consider a SCOTUS Justice nomination vote close to a presidential election.

I repeat, state and federal legislatures are not as intertwined as you seem to believe.

Federal legislators benefit directly from a GOP POTUS. State governments don't.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by angrysoba

"Guys relax, it's just an *attempted* coup."

https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/stat...105016832?s=20

1) Trump needs a lot more than Georgia.
2) Georgia's SoS outed this pressure publicly, calling Graham out for example. He also called out his party's Senate candidates for calling for his resignation.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Cavemonster

And even if Mitch HAD somehow gone back on his word, he wouldn't have had the votes to confirm. Because senators like Lindsey Graham said explicitly:

So seriously, people who try to tell me not to worry because republican politicians promised they'd do the right thing can bite my ass.

Got a state Republican example that is equivalent?

[ponderingturtle]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Who is laying what groundwork?

Trump, Giuliani and fox really.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

Trump, Giuliani and fox [pundits] really.

ftfy, Fox News has abandoned Donny, and after all he did for them.


Does anyone think Bonespurs Trump and Landscaper Giuliani are actually competent enough to pull off a coup?

[Skeptic Ginger]

Here's some actual evidence, not hypothetical:

CNN Reality Check: Trump's public schedules show little interest in work as he protests Biden's legitimate election

Quote:

But as he mounts a fierce battle to remain in office and refuses to concede the election he lost, Trump has shown little interest in the work of being President. Since he vowed to fight the election results in the wee hours after Election Day, Trump, who has spent four years producing television moments showcasing his office, has made few efforts to show the American people he is still governing. ...

He was at the club as major networks declared the race for his opponent.

Does that sound like someone scheming to pull off a coup?

[Cavemonster]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Got a state Republican example that is equivalent?

I'm not saying that I have absolute certainty that officials will go along with a Trump plan.

I'm saying that such a thing is not impossible simply because they said otherwise. I can't point to many examples of these very specific people's prior actions, partly because state level politicians more rarely rise to the national spotlight.

But I've seen enough of the party that approves of Trump 95% and made "Whatever Trump wants" the party platform for 2020, that I don't have confidence that politicians within that party will keep their word.

And after what we've seen for the past 12 years (at least) I don't think they've earned an assumption that they will keep their word.

[Emily's Cat]

I'm not saying there's a teapot orbiting Mercury. I'm just saying that it's not impossible.

[cosmicaug]

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

I'm not saying there's a teapot orbiting Mercury. I'm just saying that it's not impossible.

Sure, that's exactly the same thing.

[angrysoba]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

1) Trump needs a lot more than Georgia.
2) Georgia's SoS outed this pressure publicly, calling Graham out for example. He also called out his party's Senate candidates for calling for his resignation.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

ftfy, Fox News has abandoned Donny, and after all he did for them.


Does anyone think Bonespurs Trump and Landscaper Giuliani are actually competent enough to pull off a coup?

So, the tweet is a pretty good summation of your attitude? That we should relax because it is merely an attempted coup and we can rest easy because those attempting it are totally incompetent?

[cosmicaug]

Here's a couple of Michigan Republicans writing last Friday:

Somehow they are not reassured by politicians passing resolutions.

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/other-voices/commentary-stop-investigation-and-finalize-michigans-vote-biden

[cosmicaug]

Originally Posted by angrysoba

So, the tweet is a pretty good summation of your attitude? That we should relax because it is merely an attempted coup and we can rest easy because those attempting it are totally incompetent?

Honestly, the incompetence of this particular crew of coup attempters* is the most reassuring thing about this absurd debacle that the country is finding itself in.

*Not plotters as I think this a 'seat of the pants' kind of thing (if there was any plotting, it was probably premised on a closer race where Pennsylvania and only Pennsylvania was in question)

[angrysoba]

Originally Posted by cosmicaug

Honestly, the incompetence of this particular crew of coup attempters* is the most reassuring thing about this absurd debacle that the country is finding itself in.

*Not plotters as I think this a 'seat of the pants' kind of thing (if there was any plotting, it was probably premised on a closer race where Pennsylvania and only Pennsylvania was in question)

Indeed. It seems that getting rid of Joffrey is (hopefully) not the problem, and perhaps the American political system is passing its stress test on him. But it doesn't bode well for when your Ramsay Bolton emerges.

[d4m10n]

Originally Posted by cosmicaug

Here's a couple of Michigan Republicans writing last Friday...

Speaking of MI GOP and election shenanigans, this bodes ill:
https://twitter.com/nancykaffer/stat...36317137022976

[Cavemonster]

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

I'm not saying there's a teapot orbiting Mercury. I'm just saying that it's not impossible.

It's more like:

"The guy who mans the machine that can launch random things into orbit swears he would never launch a teapot, even though his boss is pressuring him to do so and people who work at the place that launches things into space have a general record of doing whatever their boss says and lying about it"

[pgwenthold]

Originally Posted by d4m10n

Speaking of MI GOP and election shenanigans, this bodes ill:
https://twitter.com/nancykaffer/stat...36317137022976

So Michigan is not going to participate in the electoral process. Pretty proud of their state?

(the Democratic representative will not certify any results if Wayne County is not included, so no election results. Sorry people of Michigan, your vote doesn't matter)

[cosmicaug]

Originally Posted by angrysoba

Indeed. It seems that getting rid of Joffrey is (hopefully) not the problem, and perhaps the American political system is passing its stress test on him. But it doesn't bode well for when your Ramsay Bolton emerges.

I wonder if Joffrey would not probably have been re-elected, with relative ease and thanks to the Electoral College, had he not killed ~100000 Americans?

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Cavemonster

I'm not saying that I have absolute certainty that officials will go along with a Trump plan.

I'm saying that such a thing is not impossible simply because they said otherwise. I can't point to many examples of these very specific people's prior actions, partly because state level politicians more rarely rise to the national spotlight.

But I've seen enough of the party that approves of Trump 95% and made "Whatever Trump wants" the party platform for 2020, that I don't have confidence that politicians within that party will keep their word.

And after what we've seen for the past 12 years (at least) I don't think they've earned an assumption that they will keep their word.

It was claimed because the Republicans in the federal legislature were not good for their word that the state Republicans weren't.

So I asked for an equivalent example of state GOP legislators going back on a public statement that they made that they weren't going to overturn their state's voters.

[Emily's Cat]

Originally Posted by cosmicaug

Sure, that's exactly the same thing.

Actually... it pretty much was the same thing. It's speculation based on belief.

Pragmatically, it's not going to happen. The electors aren't going to be faithless and put Trump in office. The states aren't going to replace their electors with those that will be faithless and vote for Trump. The military isn't going to back a coup. At the very worst, come January, the secret service will escort a very grumpy Trump out of the white house.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by angrysoba

So, the tweet is a pretty good summation of your attitude? That we should relax because it is merely an attempted coup and we can rest easy because those attempting it are totally incompetent?

Where's that straw man emoji when we need one?

[Cavemonster]

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

Actually... it pretty much was the same thing. It's speculation based on belief.

Pragmatically, it's not going to happen. The electors aren't going to be faithless and put Trump in office. The states aren't going to replace their electors with those that will be faithless and vote for Trump. The military isn't going to back a coup. At the very worst, come January, the secret service will escort a very grumpy Trump out of the white house.

I hope that's the case.
A number of Republicans, including politicians and others in positions of power seem to be expressing confidence that Trump will continue to be President after Jan 20.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by d4m10n

Speaking of MI GOP and election shenanigans, this bodes ill:
https://twitter.com/nancykaffer/stat...36317137022976

Upon further investigation: All the tedious details for anyone interested.
Bottom line:

Quote:

The Associated Press and major news outlets have called the presidential election for Biden. Most have called Georgia for Biden, giving him a total of 306 electoral votes -- 36 more than needed to win the election. AP and Fox News have not called Georgia, giving Biden 290 electoral votes.

Michigan has 16 electoral votes, so even without that state, Biden is still above 270 according to the projections of all major news outlets.

IOW, without MI and GA, Biden still wins.

IMO if these idiots go against their electorate it won't work out well for them, especially given it's no more than an empty gesture.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

Actually... it pretty much was the same thing. It's speculation based on belief..

If that's what you believe, where does supporting evidence come into it?

[angrysoba]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Where's that straw man emoji when we need one?

Is Trump *trying* to overturn a legitimate democratic election to install himself in power?

I’d like a yes/no on that one.

[Emily's Cat]

Originally Posted by Cavemonster

I hope that's the case.
A number of Republicans, including politicians and others in positions of power seem to be expressing confidence that Trump will continue to be President after Jan 20.

Do you expect otherwise? I expect they'll continue that show until the results are officially reported by the states and the legal challenges are finally shut down. Hell, I'm sure they'll take up the drum beat of it being a big con job after that, and proceed to tie up the courts with non-stop challenges, as well as unceasing investigations into Hunter Biden and Burisma for the next four years.

[Emily's Cat]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

If that's what you believe, where does supporting evidence come into it?

Supporting evidence that Cavemonster's post was essentially a Russel's Teapot claim? Or supporting evidence that Cavemonster's post was in essence speculation based on his/her belief?

I'm confused by your question. I think I missed a step somewhere.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by angrysoba

Is Trump *trying* to overturn a legitimate democratic election to install himself in power?

I’d like a yes/no on that one.

Does "trying" include a feeble attempt?

So what Trump would like 4 more years. A coup requires more than just wanting and feeble effort.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

Supporting evidence that Cavemonster's post was essentially a Russel's Teapot claim? Or supporting evidence that Cavemonster's post was in essence speculation based on his/her belief?

I'm confused by your question. I think I missed a step somewhere.

Supporting evidence vs no evidence re your false equivalence.

[angrysoba]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Does "trying" include a feeble attempt?

So what Trump would like 4 more years. A coup requires more than just wanting and feeble effort.

In other words, yes, he is only attempting.

Good, we are in agreement then.

In other words, “Relax, it is only an *attempted* coup” is exactly your position, and I was right.

Stop telling me then, that my accurate characterization of your position is a straw man.

[d4m10n]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Bottom line: IOW, without MI and GA, Biden still wins.

I don't think these clowns are going to actually flip Michigan, since their Secretary of State and Governor seem up to the task of keeping the election on track.

That said, the number of states where blocking just one county changes the overall result is surprisingly high.

[cosmicaug]

From https://twitter.com/JYSexton/status/1328877675751108615

Originally Posted by Jared Yates Sexton

The Trump Campaign is suing for Nevada to either name him the winner or just wipe the state’s results from the slate.

It may not work. It’s haphazard and sloppy. But make no mistake. They are attempting a literal coup.

[cosmicaug]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

I repeat, state and federal legislatures are not as intertwined as you seem to believe.

Federal legislators benefit directly from a GOP POTUS. State governments don't.

If your point is that, unlike country level GOP, state level GOP must be reasonable, I would consider that an extraordinary claim. If this were so, we would not be having GOP endorsed QAnon candidates at the state level left and right.

[cosmicaug]

Originally Posted by d4m10n

Speaking of MI GOP and election shenanigans, this bodes ill:
https://twitter.com/nancykaffer/stat...36317137022976

Haven't confirmed but I think they may have relented.

[The Great Zaganza]

There is a tremendous disconnect between career Republicans and their base.
That is why they need outsiders to win their battles for them.

[Norman Alexander]

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

There is a tremendous disconnect between career Republicans and their base.
That is why they need outsiders to win their battles for them.

No, they need plausible deniability. They have their careers to think of, you know!

[Trebuchet]

Originally Posted by cosmicaug

Haven't confirmed but I think they may have relented.

After having their racist tweets and Facebook posts revealed.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by cosmicaug

If your point is that, unlike country level GOP, state level GOP must be reasonable, I would consider that an extraordinary claim. If this were so, we would not be having GOP endorsed QAnon candidates at the state level left and right.

There are whack-jobs in state legislatures, I know that. We've had some doozies here in WA.

But the idea the governors and legislators in the states that matter would sacrifice their states' voters on the alter of Trump doesn't fit the evidence.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Here are the top 3 results for "no states are giving their electors to trump" in a search on Startpage:

Quote:

https://www.nytimes.com/article/electors-vote.html
Could State Legislatures Pick Electors to Vote for Trump? Not Likely ...
The Constitution gives state legislatures the power to determine the “manner” in ... electors chosen by the party of the presidential candidate who won their state.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/14/opini...erm/index.html
Opinion: The Electoral College is not going to give Trump a second ...
One scenario is that state legislatures could choose their own slate of electors, which could give Donald Trump the 270 electoral votes he would need to win a ...

https://apnews.com/article/election-...12a48835bc0dba
GOP leaders in 4 states quash dubious Trump bid on electors
Republican leaders in four critical states won by President-elect Joe Biden say they won't ... scheme to flip their state's electors to vote for President Donald Trump. ... “I do not see, short of finding some type of fraud — which I haven't heard of ...

Trump and the GOP at the federal level have really mucked up the country and the democratic process. But seriously people, we are not a fascist state yet. It's going to take more than a whack-job POTUS to do that.

Remember, this guy has failed at everything he has ever done. That should at least give people some confidence he's not getting another 4 years.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by cosmicaug

Haven't confirmed but I think they may have relented.

To confirm they have indeed relented:

Joe Biden won, Michigan elector coup ‘not going to happen,’ GOP leader says

Quote:

Democrat Joe Biden is the president-elect, and while Michigan’s Republican-led Legislature is investigating the election, it will not award the state’s 16 electors to GOP President Donald Trump, Senate Majority Leader Mike Shirkey told Bridge on Tuesday.

Trump is a failure. This is one more thing he has failed at: being the POTUS. The fact he lost reelection is the expected outcome.

[timhau]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Remember, this guy has failed at everything he has ever done.

He has been successful in conning people into thinking that he is a successful businessman. He even managed to leverage that into a reality TV show which actually made him money.