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Tags Congressional hearings , donald trump , impeachment , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old Yesterday, 05:13 PM   #3641
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Bob, Trump's life and liberty aren't at stake. His wealth isn't at stake. He's got plenty of opportunity to present a spirited defense, with witnesses loyal to him testifying. I don't see how anyone is trying to undercut that right. He's the one refusing to cooperate in his own defense. Which is also his right, absolutely. [ETA: Barring some SC ruling that says Trump must honor congressional subpoenas, but I don't know how that will occur since the House withdrew subpoenas. Or did they?]
I never really understood why the House just dropped the requests for testimony and documents. They still have every right to keep inquiry going, as far as I know. There must be a strategic reason they said, "Oh well, never mind about the subpoenas then." But I don't know what it was.
I don't give two poops how minimal the penalty is or who the defendant is. It is the government going after somebody and they are trying to cutoff the appeal process.
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Old Yesterday, 05:35 PM   #3642
Norman Alexander
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I don't give two poops how minimal the penalty is or who the defendant is. It is the government going after somebody and they are trying to cutoff the appeal process.
No. Quite the opposite.

They are TRYING, despite all the opposition from Trump, to give him a fair trial. That includes the opportunity to bring refutations, his evidence, his witnesses and even to step up and attempt to refute the accusations in person should he so wish. Is that not fair?

But the people who are attempting to prevent this happening are NOT the Dems or the Senate. It's the GOP and specifically The Turtle, who has already proudly stated he is taking his marching orders from the White House, i.e. Donny himself.

So Donny is bitching about a situation that he himself is creating. Nobody else. It's almost like he is trying to get sympathy for "Look what you made me do!"
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Old Yesterday, 05:40 PM   #3643
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Ted Cruz is having a hallway news conference lying to the public that there is nothing different between McConnell's proposed rules and those used in the Clinton trial.
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Old Yesterday, 05:55 PM   #3644
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I don't give two poops how minimal the penalty is or who the defendant is. It is the government going after somebody and they are trying to cutoff the appeal process.
Can a post be any more ignorant than this?

Nobody is going after somebody. This isn't a criminal trial. It's more a hearing than a trial. And the worst thing that can happen to Trump is being removed from office and disqualified from holding office.

Also, in any process, there is an end of the right of appeal. You can't appeal a SCOTUS decision either. And it takes 67 votes to convict or remove Trump from office. How much more difficult do you think the process should be?
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Old Yesterday, 06:07 PM   #3645
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I get the distinct impression that some of the Republican Senators are hearing the details of this case for the first time. "Holy ****, he did that? I'm going to have to think about this some more..."
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Old Yesterday, 06:09 PM   #3646
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Can a post be any more ignorant than this?

Nobody is going after somebody. This isn't a criminal trial. It's more a hearing than a trial. And the worst thing that can happen to Trump is being removed from office and disqualified from holding office.

Also, in any process, there is an end of the right of appeal. You can't appeal a SCOTUS decision either. And it takes 67 votes to convict or remove Trump from office. How much more difficult do you think the process should be?
The additional difficulty should be the house needing to complete all testimony first and complete the appeal process.

As I said, I don't care if it is a zero consequence censure. It is the government doing that and it meets my standard for it.
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Old Yesterday, 06:38 PM   #3647
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Trump

"As you can see, now I have been completely exonerated....My democrat persecutors put in their place and it's been proven to be nothing more than a vindictive witch hunt.... Let us not let them win .... I am stong enough to lead this great nation no matter what is thrown at me by those that hate our great country.....Great country......The greatest country.

And I will continue to be your great president....Great president....The greatest president of this great nation....The greatest nation."

Loads of idiot voters

"He is right! They are just picking on him.....Let's all vote Trump back in!"
While there are a lot of idiots, do you really think that people that have looked at the evidence and want him gone would really change their minds because a GOP controlled Senate refuses to conduct more obvious then a show trial before acquitting? It do you think that such a show trial and the President skiting about being let off might just make those people more angry towards him and those that let him go?
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Old Yesterday, 06:54 PM   #3648
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
The additional difficulty should be the house needing to complete all testimony first and complete the appeal process.

As I said, I don't care if it is a zero consequence censure. It is the government doing that and it meets my standard for it.
Bob, either you're ignorant and acting stupid or you're being dishonest.

Want to leave it up to the courts and the partisan SCOTUS to drag out the process of deciding if a House subpoena is valid? How long do you think that could take?

Do you get that SCOTUS accepted another case that could jeopardize the Affordable Care Act and has refuse to rule until after the next election? Justice delayed is justice denied. It could take a year before SCOTUS got around to the subpoenas.

And the Senate is now voting against seeing pretty much all the documents. And the White House lawyers are lying and lying and lying in what in debate is known as a "gish gallop". And considering the time limits imposed, it forces the House managers to use much of their time correcting the lies giving them less time to present their case.
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Last edited by acbytesla; Yesterday at 07:18 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 06:55 PM   #3649
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I get the distinct impression that some of the Republican Senators are hearing the details of this case for the first time. "Holy ****, he did that? I'm going to have to think about this some more..."
Assumes facts not in evidence.
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Old Yesterday, 07:10 PM   #3650
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Watching the trial on actual TV. So I can hit the mute button for Trump lawyers. From what little I heard: Here is their case:
Presenting documents against Trump and hearing witnesses would be unfair to Trump.
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Old Yesterday, 07:16 PM   #3651
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
Watching the trial on actual TV. So I can hit the mute button for Trump lawyers. From what little I heard: Here is their case:
Presenting documents against Trump and hearing witnesses would be unfair to Trump.
HOAX! WITCH HUNT! NOT A CRIME! HARASSMENT! NO EVIDENCE!
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Old Yesterday, 07:24 PM   #3652
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Ted Cruz is having a hallway news conference lying to the public that there is nothing different between McConnell's proposed rules and those used in the Clinton trial.
Whoo-hoo, Lyin’ Ted returns!

And let me just add, I always did wonder about my dad. Oh, and my wife really is unattractive, isn’t she.
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Old Yesterday, 07:34 PM   #3653
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Bob, either you're ignorant and acting stupid or you're being dishonest.

Want to leave it up to the courts and the partisan SCOTUS to drag out the process of deciding if a House subpoena is valid? How long do you think that could take?

Do you get that SCOTUS accepted another case that could jeopardize the Affordable Care Act and has refuse to rule until after the next election? Justice delayed is justice denied. It could take a year before SCOTUS got around to the subpoenas.

And the Senate is now voting against seeing pretty much all the documents. And the White House lawyers are lying and lying and lying in what in debate is known as a "gish gallop". And considering the time limits imposed, it forces the House managers to use much of their time correcting the lies giving them less time to present their case.
I don't care. If the house wants to target an individual citizen, then they need to suck it up and go through that.

It is neither ignorance, dishonesty, nor stupidity. We both agree on the result of that. We both agree what the current situation and stakes are. I simply value things differently than you.
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Old Yesterday, 07:42 PM   #3654
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I don't care. If the house wants to target an individual citizen, then they need to suck it up and go through that.

It is neither ignorance, dishonesty, nor stupidity. We both agree on the result of that. We both agree what the current situation and stakes are. I simply value things differently than you.
Thats right, you think this all a suicide pact. Well, given your idea of what the process should be, it might as well be one.
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Old Yesterday, 07:47 PM   #3655
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
Whoo-hoo, Lyin’ Ted returns!

And let me just add, I always did wonder about my dad. Oh, and my wife really is unattractive, isn’t she.
And what was that bit about nobody messes with my wife?



Anyone know what McConnell's quorum call was about? Did he just need a pee break?


They must need 2/3 of the Senate to stop debate. McConnell is probably fuming he isn't quite God in the Senate.
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Old Yesterday, 07:51 PM   #3656
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Thats right, you think this all a suicide pact. Well, given your idea or what the process should be, it might as well be one.
One again...

If you read part.of the Constitution, and it doesn't read like a suicide pact, then saying it is not a suicide pact is true but pointless.

If part does read like a suicide pact, then the statement, "it is not a suicide pact" is wrong.
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Old Yesterday, 07:59 PM   #3657
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
One again...

If you read part.of the Constitution, and it doesn't read like a suicide pact, then saying it is not a suicide pact is true but pointless.

If part does read like a suicide pact, then the statement, "it is not a suicide pact" is wrong.
I'm done with you Bob. You teach us all how absurd it is getting into a dialogue with you. I guess you had to prove it to me again. Thanks.
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Old Yesterday, 08:07 PM   #3658
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I'm done with you Bob. You teach us all how absurd it is getting into a dialogue with you. I guess you had to prove it to me again. Thanks.
Look, I'm not coming here and saying my positions are not absurd. I know they are out there and based on axioms far removed from what most people acknowledge.

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Old Yesterday, 08:11 PM   #3659
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If anyone had any doubt about whether or not corruption runs right through the Republican side of the Senate all the way to the top, the recent behaviour of Moscow Mitch and Leningrad Lindsay has well and truly removed it.
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Old Yesterday, 08:12 PM   #3660
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
If anyone had any doubt about whether or not corruption runs right through the Republican side of the Senate all the way to the top, the recent behaviour of Moscow Mitch and Leningrad Lindsay has well and truly removed it.
I couldn't agree more. They are Republicans first and foremost.
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Old Yesterday, 08:35 PM   #3661
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Look, I'm not coming here and saying my positions are not absurd. I know they are out there and based on axioms far removed from what most people acknowledge.
I don't care. Almost every one in the forum understands what it means to be "Bobbed". We respond at first and then in the second or third post we start to see the twisted sophistry which I guess is some kind of game to you.

I'm just not interested in playing your games.
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Old Yesterday, 08:44 PM   #3662
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I don't care. Almost every one in the forum understands what it means to be "Bobbed". We respond at first and then in the second or third post we start to see the twisted sophistry which I guess is some kind of game to you.

I'm just not interested in playing your games.
It doesn't sound like it is sophistry you really have an issue with. Your post was first complaining that my position was ignorant. I pointed out I was on the same page of each claim of fact you made, but I value it differently. It isn't necessarily a fallacious argument if the argument works under a different system of value.
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Old Yesterday, 10:14 PM   #3663
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
While there are a lot of idiots, do you really think that people that have looked at the evidence and want him gone would really change their minds because a GOP controlled Senate refuses to conduct more obvious then a show trial before acquitting? It do you think that such a show trial and the President skiting about being let off might just make those people more angry towards him and those that let him go?
I just think if it is anything like here a lot of people don't bother looking at the evidence and just go with the result.

This stuff can get a bit complicated and turn a bit beltway
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Old Yesterday, 10:41 PM   #3664
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A realistic goal of the Democrats would be to drag the trail out past the date of the State of the Union address.
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Old Yesterday, 10:44 PM   #3665
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Seculow is on giving the standard GOP "how dare you insult us, and here we were being so nice to you" after Nadler told the Republicans they were aiding and abetting Trump.

Nadler's back now telling Seculow he has no standing to accuse anyone of lying.

Seculow lied about what the House 'didn't do' when they had done said things.


Tsk tsk, Justice Roberts scolded "both sides".
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Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.

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Old Yesterday, 10:57 PM   #3666
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Seculow is on giving the standard GOP "how dare you insult us, and here we were being so nice to you" after Nadler told the Republicans they were aiding and abetting Trump.

Nadler's back now telling Seculow he has no standing to accuse anyone of lying.

Seculow lied about what the House 'didn't do' when they had done said things.


Tsk tsk, Justice Roberts scolded "both sides".
Seculow lying??

Surprised I am!
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Old Yesterday, 11:12 PM   #3667
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Oohhh, they're getting tired. Arguments on both sides were short.
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TRUMP CHEATS What color hat should I order with that logo? Red on black maybe? Or black on pink?

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.

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Old Yesterday, 11:51 PM   #3668
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And the Senate is adjourned until tomorrow at 1300 EST.
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TRUMP CHEATS What color hat should I order with that logo? Red on black maybe? Or black on pink?

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
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Old Today, 01:13 AM   #3669
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https://twitter.com/LACaldwellDC/sta...90775816130567

Quote:
Two big changes to the McConnell resolution per Schumer spox:

-They’re admitting the house record into evidence. (Before the Senate would have had to agree via vote)

- And 24 hours now over three days (before it was over 2 days)

The change came as even some Republicans weren’t thrilled.

“well i mean i think that adhering closer to the clinton model would have been my preference,” @HawleyMO said today.

.@SenatorCollins played a role in the changes. “Collins and others raised concerns about the 24 hours of opening statements in 2 days and the admission of the house transcript is the record,” Collins spokeswoman Annie Clark told NBC in a statement. 1/

More Collins’ spox: “Her position has been that the trial should follow the Clinton model as much as possible. She thinks these changes are a significant improvement.”
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Old Today, 01:59 AM   #3670
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IOW, McConnell passed out tokens so the GOP Senators on the edge could happily skip away tonight.
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TRUMP CHEATS What color hat should I order with that logo? Red on black maybe? Or black on pink?

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Because feeding poor people is socialism.
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Old Today, 03:47 AM   #3671
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Again, why does Moscow Mitch have so much power if Republicans disagree with him? Or are they just paying lip service to the idea of a fair process?
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Old Today, 04:45 AM   #3672
ChristianProgressive
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
No. Quite the opposite.

They are TRYING, despite all the opposition from Trump, to give him a fair trial. That includes the opportunity to bring refutations, his evidence, his witnesses and even to step up and attempt to refute the accusations in person should he so wish. Is that not fair?

But the people who are attempting to prevent this happening are NOT the Dems or the Senate. It's the GOP and specifically The Turtle, who has already proudly stated he is taking his marching orders from the White House, i.e. Donny himself.

So Donny is bitching about a situation that he himself is creating. Nobody else. It's almost like he is trying to get sympathy for "Look what you made me do!"
Bingo. GOP 101. Make a mess, then use the mess you made to argue that the system is broken and against you.
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Old Today, 04:46 AM   #3673
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I get the distinct impression that some of the Republican Senators are hearing the details of this case for the first time. "Holy ****, he did that? I'm going to have to think about this some more..."
But they're still voting to support McConnell's whitewash.
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