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Old 23rd July 2021, 04:20 PM   #41
Mike!
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I'd half-expect Frito-Lay to be admonished for being racist. Even though it was probably 50 years ago and I think addressed even then. Anyone remember the Frito Bandito?

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Old 23rd July 2021, 04:21 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
A lot of union disputes seem to be about labor telling management how to run the business.
I don’t think any given union is particularly concerned with facets of the business that don’t involve worker pay and benefits
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Old 23rd July 2021, 05:44 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
Also, legislation that protects employees traditionally was lobbied for by unions.

It really is a free market solution
What I meant was is it legal to force a worker to work 80 hours in a week? I guess it must be but that seems inhumane.
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Old 23rd July 2021, 07:01 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
I don’t think any given union is particularly concerned with facets of the business that don’t involve worker pay and benefits
Over the course of the last 160 years, labor has learned very well how the bosses run their businesses.

Businessmen are like children: if they aren't supervised, they get up to mischief. Bad, exploitive, destructive mischief, and the greatest sufferers are always the workers. The only way to contain their greedy ravages is to make them sign contracts, and then sue their sagging asses when they try to break loose.

And strike.
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Old 23rd July 2021, 09:38 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
On the other hand, doesn't overtime, errors, higher insurance premiums, and lawsuit defenses get expensive also?
Yes, but because of a lot of compartmentalization and perverse incentives that kind of cost often gets ignored.

And American businesses get these ideas about not really getting ahead unless you're screwing someone over combined with puritanical myths of the magic of 'work ethic' creating value in and of itself. The suffering becomes a proxy for creating value, which is as moronic as it is a thing that happens.

You see similar magical thinking in compliance issues. They get this idea the complexity and difficulty are required for keeping certifications. This can be the case, but not often. An overly complex system no one uses has zero effectiveness.

My last boss had to argue for two years to get the money for a $5000 jigg that would fix an issue costing the company at least $100,000 a month in warranty claims. As far as I know he's still trying to get it.

Internal auditing was wild.
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Old 24th July 2021, 01:31 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Here's the real thing... Voiced by Mel Blank and directed by Tex Avery.

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Old 24th July 2021, 12:00 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
What I meant was is it legal to force a worker to work 80 hours in a week? I guess it must be but that seems inhumane.
I think it's legal in most jurisdictions to make overtime mandatory, up to a certain number of hours per period.
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Old 24th July 2021, 02:05 PM   #48
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Old 24th July 2021, 04:38 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
The guys making the planes on the ground can't run a business any better than the guys running the business that can't actually make planes. One thing they have in common is they're trying to secure as much of the profits from plane sales for themselves as they can.
I worked for the company in question, where the guys running the business could neither make planes nor run the business. They were so incompetent that they caused the ENGINEERS to go on strike for 40 days. (And nights.)
A major part of the problem was the deeply held management belief was that knowing how to make (or design) planes was of no value, and it could be done by anyone off the street. Preferably, a street in any country other than the USA.
It doesn't appear to have gotten any better since I retired.
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Old 26th July 2021, 10:07 PM   #50
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The worst thing is the people being held at gunpoint and forced to do these jobs.

I worked shifts, for years. Admittedly, there was A/C in some areas of the plant, but I often worked 12-hour shifts, day or night, for two or more weeks straight. In the boiler rooms, temps would routinely exceed 120 F.

If they are misrepresenting work demands, and firing people for not adhering to an unknown requirement, that is a different story.
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Old 27th July 2021, 12:24 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
The worst thing is the people being held at gunpoint and forced to do these jobs.

I worked shifts, for years. Admittedly, there was A/C in some areas of the plant, but I often worked 12-hour shifts, day or night, for two or more weeks straight. In the boiler rooms, temps would routinely exceed 120 F.

If they are misrepresenting work demands, and firing people for not adhering to an unknown requirement, that is a different story.
Just because you were subjected to unsafe working conditions in the past doesn't mean that people today should have to.
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Old 27th July 2021, 12:46 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Just because you were subjected to unsafe working conditions in the past doesn't mean that people today should have to.
Unsafe? Where did you get that from?

These were known working conditions; requirements for the job. They were monitored by onsite safety personnel, and the same general conditions apply today. But now, because of quality concerns (not safety), you are limited to 60-hour weeks on that job.
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Old 28th July 2021, 03:25 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Unsafe? Where did you get that from?
Working at temperatures in excess of 120F is unsafe.
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