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Tags e-mail scandals , Eric Hothem , hillary clinton , politics scandals

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Old 4th March 2015, 12:44 PM   #42
TheL8Elvis
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post


Ok.

Thanks for posting.
Sure. I only come to that conclusion because you fail to address three fourths of my posting.

There is no evidence of law breaking. In fact, we have dueling "spokespersons":
http://thehill.com/policy/technology...ically-illegal

Hillary Clinton's exclusive use of a personal email account to conduct official business as secretary of State caused seems to have stayed within the law, experts say.
What she did was not technically illegal,” said Patrice McDermott, a former National Archives staffer and the head of the Open The Government coalition, a transparency group.


ETA:“Like secretaries of State before her, she used her own email account when engaging with any department officials,” spokesman Nick Merrill said in a statement. “For government business, she emailed them on their department accounts, with every expectation they would be retained.”

Which is why am asking questions about what specifically she did that was illegal, what were the consequences, etc.

Because otherwise, it just seems like outrage because of who she is.

Last edited by TheL8Elvis; 4th March 2015 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 4th March 2015, 12:48 PM   #43
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Omg. I figured it out. Eric Hoteham is Slender Man! It even rhymes. Hillary's more evil than I imagined. Search her for cheesecake!
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Old 4th March 2015, 12:50 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
I can't wait for the meltdown Republicans will have when Hillary Clinton is elected President of the United States.
First a Black, and now a Woman?!?

Pray it doesn't happen, or we won't be able to sleep at night for the sound of Republican heads exploding.
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Old 4th March 2015, 01:12 PM   #45
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Here is Judicial Watch's statement on the Clinton email fiasco:

“We are concerned that the Obama administration may have withheld material information and may have purposely misled and lied to Judicial Watch, as well as at least one federal court about these emails."
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Old 4th March 2015, 01:20 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
Sure. I only come to that conclusion because you fail to address three fourths of my posting.

There is no evidence of law breaking. In fact, we have dueling "spokespersons":
http://thehill.com/policy/technology...ically-illegal

Hillary Clinton's exclusive use of a personal email account to conduct official business as secretary of State caused seems to have stayed within the law, experts say.
What she did was not technically illegal,” said Patrice McDermott, a former National Archives staffer and the head of the Open The Government coalition, a transparency group.
There was no law broken. At best there could have been a policy breach, but even then it's considered a moot point. She emailed people on their government accounts, which means all information was archived on government servers. I think 16.5 is under the impression that only outgoing emails are saved to the server. What with the NSA being able to hack the world, you'd think they'd clear this up right proper!

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
ETA:“Like secretaries of State before her, she used her own email account when engaging with any department officials,” spokesman Nick Merrill said in a statement. “For government business, she emailed them on their department accounts, with every expectation they would be retained.”
I said this same thing in the Benghazi thread, but it will most assuredly be ignored. It's like saying the email server was "one she controlled". It's just a scare tactic.

"Controlling" an email server is the same as "controlling" an email account. There aren't many added benefits, or significant power that comes with it. I run my own email, dhcp, ftp, and minecraft (a game for my son) server at my house. It's just easier to maintain it that way. I still use my commercial email for almost everything. It's just neato to have an @firstnamelastname.com\org\whatever email account. They used to be easier to link to phones as well, but now you can link almost any commercial email in a matter of seconds.

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
Which is why am asking questions about what specifically she did that was illegal, what were the consequences, etc.
Nothing illegal about it at all. She followed protocol in that she did all official business through .gov accounts by emailing the recipient on their .gov accounts. It's all archived, and I would almost guarantee most of the emails that were turned over were duplicates of what the committee already had. Some people even said emails were a waste of time as most conversations about something so serious would have been done in real-time. On the phone, chat program, etc.

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
Because otherwise, it just seems like outrage because of who she is.
If you could see me right now, I would be tapping the side of my nose with my finger.
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Old 4th March 2015, 01:33 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
She emailed people on their government accounts, which means all information was archived on government servers.
facepalm.
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Old 4th March 2015, 01:39 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
ETA:“Like secretaries of State before her, she used her own email account when engaging with any department officials,” spokesman Nick Merrill said in a statement. “For government business, she emailed them on their department accounts, with every expectation they would be retained.”
Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
facepalm.
Can you elaborate ?
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Old 4th March 2015, 01:40 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
facepalm.
Nice addition. Care to explain where it is wrong or how it is wrong? Do government servers not archive information? Is that what you're insinuating? Are you insinuating that she didn't email them on their email accounts? Because then this should be moved to the CT section as you're implying that her business was done with co-workers and fellow government individuals through personal email accounts to deliberately bypass the archiving process.

I despise attempted snark with one liner comments, especially while showing a complete lack of knowledge when it comes to the workings of the internet while trying to pass crap like "RUNZ HER OWN SARVERZ! OMGZ".
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Old 4th March 2015, 01:42 PM   #50
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Based on his reply to me earlier, 16.5 seems to be pointing out the the Secretary of State does more than just email folks in her own government. I doubt that we can subpoena the servers of other governments, just as an example.
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Old 4th March 2015, 01:42 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Based on his reply to me earlier, 16.5 seems to be pointing out the the Secretary of State does more than just email folks in her own government. I doubt that we can subpoena the servers of other governments, just as an example.
Which has what to do with Benghazi, exactly?
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Old 4th March 2015, 01:44 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
Well, actually, the emails to people not on government servers would not be archived, now would they.

This is particularly true where Clinton's top aide had a clintonemails.com account, viz: huma@clintonemail.com.

There's a problem.
Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Nice addition. Care to explain where it is wrong or how it is wrong? Do government servers not archive information? Is that what you're insinuating? Are you insinuating that she didn't email them on their email accounts? Because then this should be moved to the CT section as you're implying that her business was done with co-workers and fellow government individuals through personal email accounts to deliberately bypass the archiving process.
.
I already explained this once.

the Smoking Gun has emails sent to her on the Political situation in Libya that were not archived.

Last edited by The Big Dog; 4th March 2015 at 02:05 PM. Reason: changed Benghazi to "Political situation in Libya"
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Old 4th March 2015, 01:44 PM   #53
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I'm starting to doubt that Eric Hoteham is a real person. I can't help but notice that his name is an anagram of "Oh, Hate Crime!", which is surely an indication that he was concocted as some sort of scheme on the part of (obviously racist) Democrats to incite a race war after Obama seizes all of the guns from white people.
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Old 4th March 2015, 01:48 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
I already explained this once.
If you thought your earlier post was an explanation, you are mistaken. I think that some of you are so used to sparring with each other, you think that the rest of us must be following along with these little asides.
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Old 4th March 2015, 01:53 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
If you thought your earlier post was an explanation, you are mistaken. I think that some of you are so used to sparring with each other, you think that the rest of us must be following along with these little asides.
Sorry, I did not think that "Hillary e-mailed people outside of the US Government" needed any further clarification.

Last edited by The Big Dog; 4th March 2015 at 01:54 PM.
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Old 4th March 2015, 01:58 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
Sorry, I did not think that "Hillary e-mailed people outside of the US Government" needed any further clarification.
Can you link me to this post? I'm not being facetious, I'm being serious. I can't seem to find it, but I've been known to overlook things.

She emailed them what? How did "the smoking gun" find the emails? What did the emails contain? Who did she email that was outside of the US Government? How can that be tied to her failing to do insert_failure_here?
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Old 4th March 2015, 01:59 PM   #57
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Sorry - I read your post as saying that you already explained the Benghazi thing.

Quote:
I already explained this once.

the Smoking Gun has emails sent to her on Benghazi that were not archived.
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Old 4th March 2015, 02:01 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
Sorry, I did not think that "Hillary e-mailed people outside of the US Government" needed any further clarification.
Fair enough. What about this though ?

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
Did you miss this part ?:
All told, 55,000 pages of emails were given to the department.
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Old 4th March 2015, 02:03 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Sorry - I read your post as saying that you already explained the Benghazi thing.
I have!

In all seriousness, i have been trying diligently to confine Benghazi to the Moderated thread, and the broader repercussions to this thread, although there is huge overlap.

and i have therefore changed my earlier post to refer to the 12/12 emails regarding the situation in Libya as opposed to Benghazi

Last edited by The Big Dog; 4th March 2015 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 4th March 2015, 02:17 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by maxpower1227 View Post
I'm starting to doubt that Eric Hoteham is a real person. I can't help but notice that his name is an anagram of "Oh, Hate Crime!", which is surely an indication that he was concocted as some sort of scheme on the part of (obviously racist) Democrats to incite a race war after Obama seizes all of the guns from white people.
Or just a mix of Eric Holder and Rodham. "Hey, we have to put in a name. Haha I'll do this!"
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Old 4th March 2015, 02:20 PM   #61
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http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ad.php?t=79232

I don't participate in the Beghazi thread and I'm not up to speed on all the email stuff, but I see 16.5 dredged up a similar thread from 2007. In that thread it involved the RNC. Very interesting comparing the reactions in that thread with those in this one.
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Old 4th March 2015, 02:38 PM   #62
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H. Clinton Emails

Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
the fact that Hillary is handing over emails
Is she? That's news to me. Got a link?
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Old 4th March 2015, 02:44 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Is she? That's news to me. Got a link?
Originally Posted by New York Times
All told, 55,000 pages of emails were given to the department. Mrs. Clinton stepped down from the secretary’s post in early 2013.
Link

Anytime.
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Old 4th March 2015, 02:52 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Link

Anytime.
Thanks for the link.

"How many emails were in Mrs. Clinton’s account is not clear, and neither is the process her advisers used to determine which ones related to her work at the State Department before turning them over."

It's a step in the right direction, but it's not enough. There needs to be someone independent of her going through those emails to verify which ones need to go to State.

I'd feel even better if she hadn't violated the law and used a private email account to begin with, but this is Hillary, after all.
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Old 4th March 2015, 03:28 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by maxpower1227 View Post
I'm starting to doubt that Eric Hoteham is a real person. I can't help but notice that his name is an anagram of "Oh, Hate Crime!", which is surely an indication that he was concocted as some sort of scheme on the part of (obviously racist) Democrats to incite a race war after Obama seizes all of the guns from white people.
It's also an anagram for "A Hermetic Ho." Which makes more sense to me.
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Old 4th March 2015, 03:31 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
Fair enough. What about this though ?
The total number of emails which have been provided is meaningless without knowing the total number of emails which had existed at one time. For example, what if there were 60,000 emails? Would you feel confident that the 5,000 emails which were missing were random? Or do you think there might be some selection bias involved?
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Old 4th March 2015, 03:46 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
The total number of emails which have been provided is meaningless without knowing the total number of emails which had existed at one time. For example, what if there were 60,000 emails? Would you feel confident that the 5,000 emails which were missing were random? Or do you think there might be some selection bias involved?
I can absolutely see how a Republican would, as that is their innate position when it comes to democrats. Why assume innocence when it's so much easier to be confident in tampering?
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Old 4th March 2015, 03:53 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
... I'd feel even better if she hadn't violated the law and used a private email account to begin with, but this is Hillary, after all.

Could you please specify the law you believe she violated?

The law you likely have in mind is the Presidential Records Act, which was enacted in 1978.

But that law as passed did not forbid the use of private e-mail accounts by government officials, which is why other Secretaries of State (such as Colin Powell and Chuck Hagel) and numerous other government officials (such as Karl Rove) were able to use them.

It was not until 2014 that changes took effect forbidding the use of private e-mail accounts by government officials. That affects John Kerry, the current Secretary of State -- but it would not have applied to Hillary Clinton, since she left the office in 2013.

If you believe that Hillary Clinton violated the law, it would appear there are a whole bunch of other people who did so as well. The fact that these people have not been charged or convicted of law-breaking would indicate the behavior was not illegal at the time they engaged in it.

If the Presidential Records Act is not the law you have in mind, and you think there is some other law Hillary Clinton violated, please specify which law you are referring to and provide a link to its text.
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Old 4th March 2015, 03:54 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I can absolutely see how a Republican would, as that is their innate position when it comes to democrats. Why assume innocence when it's so much easier to be confident in tampering?
Because we know that she did not turn over all of them.

That is not a "republican" position, that is among others The New York Times and Slate's position.
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Old 4th March 2015, 04:07 PM   #70
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I think most reasonable people would say this sounds sketchy and merits an investigation.
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Old 4th March 2015, 04:19 PM   #71
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Congress subpoenaed former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's personal emails on Wednesday as part of its probe into the 2012 Benghazi terrorist attacks.The House Select Committee on Benghazi issued the subpoenas, and also sent letters to Internet companies informing them of "their legal obligation to protect all relevant documents."

/n.b. I am placing this here because it appears that this request is for ALL emails, including those covered by FOIA requests from, among others, AP and Gawker Media which do not relate to the Benghazi attacks.
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Old 4th March 2015, 05:27 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Nova Land View Post
Could you please specify the law you believe she violated?

The law you likely have in mind is the Presidential Records Act, which was enacted in 1978.

But that law as passed did not forbid the use of private e-mail accounts by government officials, which is why other Secretaries of State (such as Colin Powell and Chuck Hagel) and numerous other government officials (such as Karl Rove) were able to use them.

It was not until 2014 that changes took effect forbidding the use of private e-mail accounts by government officials. That affects John Kerry, the current Secretary of State -- but it would not have applied to Hillary Clinton, since she left the office in 2013.

If you believe that Hillary Clinton violated the law, it would appear there are a whole bunch of other people who did so as well. The fact that these people have not been charged or convicted of law-breaking would indicate the behavior was not illegal at the time they engaged in it.

If the Presidential Records Act is not the law you have in mind, and you think there is some other law Hillary Clinton violated, please specify which law you are referring to and provide a link to its text.
Well, since she didn't turn over the emails until late 2014, and only upon request of the State Department in an attempt to follow the law, she did not follow the law by turning them over when she was there.

The rules at the time, according to the Times stated, "Regulations from the National Archives and Records Administration at the time required that any emails sent or received from personal accounts be preserved as part of the agency’s records." and she intentionally violated those regulations.

Being caught and then turning over the records is not the same as turning over the records which she was required to do. It was neither the letter nor the spirit of the law to only turn over official government records when asked almost two years after leaving office.
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Old 4th March 2015, 07:26 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
I think most reasonable people would say this sounds sketchy and merits an investigation.
Oh? What exactly sounds sketchy about it? The 55,000 emails she turned over? The fact she's complied, and openly said she would testify before this, what is it now? Like, 16th investigation? The fact that she has so much to hide that the democrat sitting on the commission is pushing for the emails to be available to the public?

I understand 16.5's.....position, but please. Explain to me in your own words exactly what is sketchy and what should be investigated? I've got time.

ETA: 16.5, I wasn't addressing you, please don't reply. I am fully aware of your position on the nefarious and evilness of the satan which is Hillary Clinton. I don't need anymore insight, thank you.
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Old 4th March 2015, 07:35 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Oh? What exactly sounds sketchy about it? The 55,000 emails she turned over? The fact she's complied, and openly said she would testify before this, what is it now? Like, 16th investigation? The fact that she has so much to hide that the democrat sitting on the commission is pushing for the emails to be available to the public?

I understand 16.5's.....position, but please. Explain to me in your own words exactly what is sketchy and what should be investigated? I've got time.

ETA: 16.5, I wasn't addressing you, please don't reply. I am fully aware of your position on the nefarious and evilness of the satan which is Hillary Clinton. I don't need anymore insight, thank you.
Try not to use strawmen. I have posted New York Times, Slate and Gawker. You have posted nothing. Her aides turned over selected emails, not all emails, years after State Department represented to Congress and Courts that they had fully complied with their obligations under FOIA and Subpoenas.

They did not.

Post something about 50,000 emails again, no one cares.

Sorry to respond, tho, I am certain my comprehensive knowledge of the facts gets in your way.

Oh yeah, Hillary 2016!

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Old 4th March 2015, 08:25 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
Try not to use strawmen. I have posted New York Times, Slate and Gawker. You have posted nothing. Her aides turned over selected emails, not all emails, years after State Department represented to Congress and Courts that they had fully complied with their obligations under FOIA and Subpoenas.

They did not.
I should believe you over them...because?

Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
Post something about 50,000 emails again, no one cares.
55,000 emails, actually and apparently you care enough to constantly comment on it. That's why I asked you not too, you and I will never get anywhere. You suffer from the same exact issues that you blame the opposition. This isn't about the truth for you. It isn't about 4 dead American's or you would have shown disdain for the war that killed thousands, or all the attacks for the last decade or more. This has nothing to do with any of that for you. It's purely partisan. Anything that the Repubs can do to "stick it" to Hillary. That's all you care about, and it's so blatantly clear with every single post you make that it's comical you deny it.

Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
Sorry to respond, tho, I am certain my comprehensive knowledge of the facts gets in your way.
Comprehensive knowledge, huh? Reading through the Benghazi thread, and this one (which should be reported as it's the same damn thread, you're just bypassing the moderation), it appears that you've persuaded absolutely no one with this knowledge. You've parroted the same stuff for months, now you've got a new bone to sink your teeth into. The only problem is that, outside of a few reporters, everyone is saying what a non-story this is, and how it affects nothing in the overall aspect of the event. It's a huge deal to those that are represented by the elephant, it's nothing for the most part. Every Secretary before her did it, there was no law broken, there was no policy broken, there were no issues with it overall. Yet Republicans are touting it like they've just discovered the Holy Grail.

Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
Oh yeah, Hillary 2016!

*shrug* It's an inevitability. All she has to do is announce it and it's curtains for any Republican that tries. I don't even need to worry about it, she's a shoe in.
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Old 4th March 2015, 08:27 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post

Originally Posted by Nova Land View Post
Could you please specify the law you believe she violated?...

please specify which law you are referring to and provide a link to its text.

Well, since she didn't turn over the emails until late 2014, and only upon request of the State Department in an attempt to follow the law, she did not follow the law by turning them over when she was there.

What law?

I'm sorry I was not clear enough. My question to Ziggurat (and to you, if you care to respone) is what law, specifically, do you believe she broke?

There was a law in effect at the time Hillary Clinton was Secretary of State. It is the same law that was in effect at the time Colin Powell was Secretary of State, that Chuck Hagel was Secretary of State, that Karl Rove was White House Deputy Chief of Staff, among others.

It would be nice if that law had required government officials not to use private e-mail accounts. But it didn't.

In 2014 the law was changed. Neither Karl Rove, Colin Powell, Chuck Hagel, nor Hillary Clinton was in office then.

If you believe the 1978 Presidential Records Act was violated, please cite the section these folks were violating.

I am aware that people have asserted that Hillary Clinton violated the law. I'm not looking for someone (be it Ziggurat or be it you) to repeat that assertion. I'm looking for someone to specify which law was broken.



Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
The rules at the time, according to the Times ...

What rules, at what time? Please be specific.

As far as I know, Hillary Clinton followed the rules which were in effect at the time she was in office. If you know differently, please let me know what rule she didn't follow and when it was put into effect.
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Old 4th March 2015, 08:32 PM   #77
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Mod, can we merge all these threads? There's 3 of them going for the same exact subject matter and it's obnoxious. Can we please combine them so we can keep track of this "ZOMGZ HILLUREE BROKED DA LAWZ" posts in the same spot? Thanks.
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Old 4th March 2015, 09:32 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I should believe you over them...because?
You shouldn't, they fully support everything I have been saying.

Thanks for posting.

Ploink.
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Old 4th March 2015, 11:58 PM   #79
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Fox News Legal Analysts: Hillary Clinton Didn’t Break the Law

Quote:
“I’m going to say no, because at the time she did what she did when she used her own personal email, the law was very nebulous,” former prosecutor Jonna Spilbor said in response to Carlson’s question about Clinton breaking the law. “It didn’t say you couldn’t use your own email, it said any government use of email had to be preserved. So what did she violate?” she asked. As long as Clinton can still retrieve the emails in question, Spilbor said, “There’s no law broken.”
So this is another non-scandal. Shocker.
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Old 5th March 2015, 06:13 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
Fox News Legal Analysts: Hillary Clinton Didn’t Break the Law

So this is another non-scandal. Shocker.
Do I understand you correctly that so long as Hillary is not an active criminal, there is not an issue?

Ok.

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