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Tags Dennis Hastert , politics scandals , rape charges , sex scandals

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Old 31st May 2015, 08:45 AM   #81
shemp
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Originally Posted by BenBurch View Post
However, it was a law he passed. Which has it's own special humor to it, don't you think?

If he had simply kept withdrawing at $50,000 a month rather than splitting the withdrawals into $10,000 increments to avoid the reporting requirements, he would only have to admit that he was giving it to somebody else to settle a private matter, and there would have been no criminal charges.

But he took an action to evade the law, a law he himself passed, and which he understood the consequences of, and then he lied to federal agents and as somebody who helped impeach Bill Clinton for lying under oath, he also knew he shouldn't be doing that, either.
Oh sweet irony. Though it's very unlikely to happen, he can spend the rest of his life in prison for all I care.
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Old 31st May 2015, 10:28 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
Even in europe in many country the age of consent is lower than legal age , baring a power relationship like teacher/puppil.

Example denmark, where a teacher cannot have sex with their under 18 pupil EVEN if the age of consent is 15. There are similar exception as far as I know in Sweden, germany , France, those bastion of sexual repression as we all know.
Then comes a really important but generally unstated distinction when people discuss cases like this: is it "sexually abusive" because it's illegal or is it illegal because it is "sexually abusive"?

What he did may have been illegal and even abusive yet a lot of people, both in this thread and elsewhere, seem to treat it as abusive a prior only because what he did seems to be illegal rather than making that assessment based on the actual circumstances. In fact due to how little actual information has been revealed about his alleged "sexual misconduct" making such an determination seems completely impossible.

The same people would almost certainly have no calms about describing any gay sex as "a crime against nature and god" with a good conscience were it criminalized as such.
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Old 31st May 2015, 10:41 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
I agree and I never said he should get away with molesting students. However, he may get away with it due to statutes of limitations.
What's the statute of limitations for blackmail, though? The other guy might or might not be a victim of one thing, but that doesn't mean he's not the villain of another thing.
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Old 31st May 2015, 10:48 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
What a messy law! This bit: "and uses his or her position of trust or authority over the victim to engage in sexual contact" is critical. It leaves open the possibility that the "culprit" is in the "position of trust or authority" but didn't use that position to engage in sex. The prosecution would have to prove that the teacher used his position, not that he merely occupied that position.
That's the way the equivalent Swedish law is worded and interpreted which is to say that a teacher having sex with their student isn't enough to convict them, they had to exploit the fact that they were in a position of dependence to make them endure or partake in a sexual act. For example by pressuring them or threatening them explicitly or implicitly.

The Swedish law isn't specific to schools and applies to all forms of "positions of dependence" and "position of authority" such as doctors, nurses, psychiatrists and their patients or employers and employees.
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Old 31st May 2015, 11:03 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
What's the statute of limitations for blackmail, though? The other guy might or might not be a victim of one thing, but that doesn't mean he's not the villain of another thing.
Agreed- the blackmailer is in a heap of trouble, I think.
What happens to Hastert remains to be seen but charges for molestation won't be on the list.
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Old 31st May 2015, 11:54 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Monketey Ghost View Post
Agreed- the blackmailer is in a heap of trouble, I think.
What happens to Hastert remains to be seen but charges for molestation won't be on the list.
Prediction: Hastert gets a slap on the wrist, blackmailer gets ten years.
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Old 31st May 2015, 12:09 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
Prediction: Hastert gets a slap on the wrist, blackmailer gets ten years.
I wonder if Hastert will have the balls to sue the blackmailer in an attempt to get some of the money back?
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Last edited by Ladewig; 31st May 2015 at 12:14 PM.
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Old 31st May 2015, 12:48 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Then comes a really important but generally unstated distinction when people discuss cases like this: is it "sexually abusive" because it's illegal or is it illegal because it is "sexually abusive"?

What he did may have been illegal and even abusive yet a lot of people, both in this thread and elsewhere, seem to treat it as abusive a prior only because what he did seems to be illegal rather than making that assessment based on the actual circumstances. In fact due to how little actual information has been revealed about his alleged "sexual misconduct" making such an determination seems completely impossible.

The same people would almost certainly have no calms about describing any gay sex as "a crime against nature and god" with a good conscience were it criminalized as such.
*shrug*. I would not criminalizing any gay sex or other sex or whatever between adult and 15-18 year old because there are good indication that a teenager that age is able to to have a normal sexual life with an adult, that is why we have consent law. But at the same time, it is very blind to NOT recognize that a teacher has an incredible position of power over a puppil. That is why the exception in case an adult has a position of guardianship or power over a teenager.

As for this specific case : it was almost certainly illegal, he is a politician, he should be held to higher standard than your average person, in integrity. He did not hold to those standard, was being blackmailed and paying. That would be a good reason to indict him for me.
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Old 31st May 2015, 01:26 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
This is probably the one and only time I'm going to agree with Elf Grinder. His point (which you seem to have missed) is that, regardless of anything else going on here, THE GODDAMN U.S. GOVERNMENT SHOULD HAVE NO RIGHT TO REQUIRE YOU TO REPORT YOUR BANK WITHDRAWALS. On this point alone, the law is an ass.
And yet I wonder if he thinks terrorists moving money around would be a legitimate reason to snoop? In addition, Hastert's behavior was likely criminal were it not for the statute of limitations. So the bank snooping does uncover criminal behavior.

Curious if Elf Grinder thinks the same about the NSA and whether Snowden was a hero or a traitor?
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Old 31st May 2015, 01:30 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Monketey Ghost View Post
Agreed- the blackmailer is in a heap of trouble, I think.
What happens to Hastert remains to be seen but charges for molestation won't be on the list.
Rumor has it the feds are unlikely to pursue a sexual abuse victim for this lind of blackmail. And I doubt there will be a public outcry for prosecution.
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Old 31st May 2015, 01:50 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
And yet I wonder if he thinks terrorists moving money around would be a legitimate reason to snoop? In addition, Hastert's behavior was likely criminal were it not for the statute of limitations. So the bank snooping does uncover criminal behavior.

Curious if Elf Grinder thinks the same about the NSA and whether Snowden was a hero or a traitor?

In a similar vein, terrorists keeping hordes of money in their homes would be a legitimate reason for the authorities to snoop around all our houses? After all, there is likely criminal behavior lurking out there, within or without statutes of limitation.
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Old 31st May 2015, 02:10 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
The same people would almost certainly have no calms about describing any gay sex as "a crime against nature and god" with a good conscience were it criminalized as such.
What is the compelling evidence you use to support this assertion?
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Old 31st May 2015, 02:34 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by hgc View Post
In a similar vein, terrorists keeping hordes of money in their homes would be a legitimate reason for the authorities to snoop around all our houses? After all, there is likely criminal behavior lurking out there, within or without statutes of limitation.
That wasn't my point. Inconsistency (aka hypocrisy) was my point. But it appears the Elf cannot answer for 2 weeks.
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Old 31st May 2015, 02:46 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Then comes a really important but generally unstated distinction when people discuss cases like this: is it "sexually abusive" because it's illegal or is it illegal because it is "sexually abusive"?

What he did may have been illegal and even abusive yet a lot of people, both in this thread and elsewhere, seem to treat it as abusive a prior only because what he did seems to be illegal rather than making that assessment based on the actual circumstances. In fact due to how little actual information has been revealed about his alleged "sexual misconduct" making such an determination seems completely impossible.

The same people would almost certainly have no calms about describing any gay sex as "a crime against nature and god" with a good conscience were it criminalized as such.
I have much calms about it. Are you perhaps thinking of qualms? Sounds similar but does not mean the same...........
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Old 31st May 2015, 02:48 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
That wasn't my point. Inconsistency (aka hypocrisy) was my point. But it appears the Elf cannot answer for 2 weeks.
Is not this his second exasperation?
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Old 31st May 2015, 02:52 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Is not this his second exasperation?
Yes, hence the length.
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Old 31st May 2015, 03:01 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
I don't know why they fear the "over $10,000" form so much.

Here it is, with the instructions: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8300.pdf
Because it creates a traceable record of the (unlawful in this case) transaction - duh ? Shoulda used bitcoin.

Oddly that req and $10k limit was created in 1970, when a new new Porche 911s cost <$10k.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_Secrecy_Act

Clearly any police state would prefer that all transactions are fully recorded to provide the state with evidence.
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Old 31st May 2015, 03:48 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
And yet I wonder if he thinks terrorists moving money around would be a legitimate reason to snoop? In addition, Hastert's behavior was likely criminal were it not for the statute of limitations. So the bank snooping does uncover criminal behavior.

Curious if Elf Grinder thinks the same about the NSA and whether Snowden was a hero or a traitor?
If the government has a LEGITIMATE reason to look into your banking, then that's different. People who have no reason to be under suspicion should not have to report banking transactions.
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Old 31st May 2015, 03:54 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Is not this his second exasperation?
three in one month
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Old 31st May 2015, 04:15 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
And yet I wonder if he thinks terrorists moving money around would be a legitimate reason to snoop? In addition, Hastert's behavior was likely criminal were it not for the statute of limitations. So the bank snooping does uncover criminal behavior.

Curious if Elf Grinder thinks the same about the NSA and whether Snowden was a hero or a traitor?
I wouldn't attempt to speak for Elf' on a bet.

Clearly our government is not permitted to perform such searches, except by warrants issued based on probable cause. Your exaggerated, unrealistic fears of terrorism cause you to prefer a police state to a republic with a functional 4th amendment.

If one views warrantless bulk info collection of data on the entire citizenry as a valid function of government - IOW if you support a police state that would make a soviet era E.German state proud - then he's a criminal; otherwise a selfless whistle-blower. I don't view our police state as favorably as you seem to.


Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Rumor has it the feds are unlikely to pursue a sexual abuse victim for this lind of blackmail. And I doubt there will be a public outcry for prosecution.
Where do you get your rumors ? You are suggesting that certain cases of blackmail are now acceptable and not prosecutable - and that's vile.

That would be a rather odd & sad decision (but this "justice" department is quite odd & sad). If blackmailing a politician, whilst leaving a trail of clear evidence, isn't an actionable offense, then there is little hope for the republic. The fact that one has a valid reason to feel harmed and feel antipathy can never justify such criminality. It might weigh in at the sentencing phase.

Last edited by stevea; 31st May 2015 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 31st May 2015, 04:27 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
If the government has a LEGITIMATE reason to look into your ....
Everyone agrees w/ that part. The issue is that the "friends of big-brother" believe that breathing is a LEGITIMATE reason for government to snoop.
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Old 1st June 2015, 11:46 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
What's the statute of limitations for blackmail, though? The other guy might or might not be a victim of one thing, but that doesn't mean he's not the villain of another thing.
We don't know if he blackmailed Hastert.

"I'm going to tell my story to the NY Times"
"Wait a minute, let me 'buy' it from you instead"

is different from

"I'm going to tell my story to the NY Time unless you pay me $1 million"
""
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Old 1st June 2015, 11:51 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
We don't know if he blackmailed Hastert.

"I'm going to tell my story to the NY Times"
"Wait a minute, let me 'buy' it from you instead"

is different from

"I'm going to tell my story to the NY Time unless you pay me $1 million"
""

Under federal law, it is not extortion to ask to be paid by someone to not sue them. If he said, "pay me or I'll sue," then it was perfectly legal (don't know about Illinois law).
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Old 1st June 2015, 01:05 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Surprise surprise, another anti-gay gay Republican.

Dennis Hastert’s secret gay ‘misconduct’ is even worse given his terrible voting record on gay rights

And there was this:
Well at least now we know why he was OK with a little hot senator on page action.
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Old 1st June 2015, 01:07 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
We don't know if he blackmailed Hastert.

"I'm going to tell my story to the NY Times"
"Wait a minute, let me 'buy' it from you instead"

is different from

"I'm going to tell my story to the NY Time unless you pay me $1 million"
Yes, just like "I think you should buy fire insurance" is different from "very flammable-looking place you gots here, wink wink nudge nudge". Presumably somebody's investigating that side of things. Unless millions of dollars changing hands in connection with crimes and sex is suddenly uninteresting to authorities. "Yawn, how dull. Politicians, jailbait, gay sex, and a crapton of cash--where are the interesting cases?"
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Old 1st June 2015, 01:07 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
If the other party is at or above the age of consent it probably is. It might be against the rules of his employment, but is there actual law forbidding employees of particular employers from sexual relationships with various people?
No there are exceptions to many general age of consent laws specifically to criminalize abusing your authority on high school students.
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Old 1st June 2015, 01:08 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I think one of the suspicious parts is that he apparently had $3.5 million to play with. How do our public servants amass that kind of cash?
Being exempt from insider trading laws helps.
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Old 1st June 2015, 01:11 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
This is probably the one and only time I'm going to agree with Elf Grinder. His point (which you seem to have missed) is that, regardless of anything else going on here, THE GODDAMN U.S. GOVERNMENT SHOULD HAVE NO RIGHT TO REQUIRE YOU TO REPORT YOUR BANK WITHDRAWALS. On this point alone, the law is an ass.
Yea money should always be anonymous so that it doesn't need to be laundered to hide where it came from.
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Old 1st June 2015, 01:16 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by stevea View Post
I wouldn't attempt to speak for Elf' on a bet.

Clearly our government is not permitted to perform such searches, except by warrants issued based on probable cause. Your exaggerated, unrealistic fears of terrorism cause you to prefer a police state to a republic with a functional 4th amendment.
So with out an warrant is an IRS audit criminal?
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Old 1st June 2015, 01:56 PM   #110
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Dennis Hastert indicted.

H-a-s-t-e-r-t

Oh thank god; for a second I thought that president Palmer was indicted. He was my favorite president.

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Old 1st June 2015, 02:54 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
So with out an warrant is an IRS audit criminal?
The warrant is served on the bank to obtain their records.
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Old 1st June 2015, 03:39 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Yes, just like "I think you should buy fire insurance" is different from "very flammable-looking place you gots here, wink wink nudge nudge". Presumably somebody's investigating that side of things. Unless millions of dollars changing hands in connection with crimes and sex is suddenly uninteresting to authorities. "Yawn, how dull. Politicians, jailbait, gay sex, and a crapton of cash--where are the interesting cases?"
It would seem to me that, if nothing else, the recipient of the payments was also guilty of "structuring", unless he was allowing the CTR's to be filed.
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Old 1st June 2015, 04:32 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
It would seem to me that, if nothing else, the recipient of the payments was also guilty of "structuring", unless he was allowing the CTR's to be filed.
Or not putting the money in banks. With that much he can probably buy a lot of mattresses and bedrooms to keep them in.
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Old 1st June 2015, 04:58 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by stevea View Post
... Where do you get your rumors ? You are suggesting that certain cases of blackmail are now acceptable and not prosecutable - and that's vile....
That one was from the news. There is even talk that Hastert said it was a mutual agreement, not blackmail.

Hastert's still only been charged with bank shenanigans (the actual charge eludes me).
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Old 1st June 2015, 05:46 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
That one was from the news. There is even talk that Hastert said it was a mutual agreement, not blackmail.

Hastert's still only been charged with bank shenanigans (the actual charge eludes me).
Yes, Hastert said this was a repayment of a past wrong, not blackmail. Hence the victim has no legal worries. Nor does he have to pay income tax (I am not a CPA so this is based on what I understand) on it as it was a redress of a debt.
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Old 1st June 2015, 06:06 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by BenBurch View Post
Nor does he have to pay income tax (I am not a CPA so this is based on what I understand) on it as it was a redress of a debt.
I would assume for that to apply there would have to be paperwork proving the debt. Otherwise anybody could get around income tax on large monetary gifts by claiming it was settlement of debt. It's easy to get away with murder; it's much more difficult to evade tax.
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Old 1st June 2015, 06:13 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I would assume for that to apply there would have to be paperwork proving the debt. Otherwise anybody could get around income tax on large monetary gifts by claiming it was settlement of debt. It's easy to get away with murder; it's much more difficult to evade tax.
Do we know that the victim/criminalcreditor did not account for any potential taxes on the monies (though I can see the logic of repaying a debt, and if the debtor acknowledges and consents to the debt is there legal recourse)?

Sounds like a way to get away with blackmail especially if there are additional embarrassing factors that still have not been revealed to assure compliance by the person being blackmailed.
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Old 2nd June 2015, 04:18 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I would assume for that to apply there would have to be paperwork proving the debt. Otherwise anybody could get around income tax on large monetary gifts by claiming it was settlement of debt. It's easy to get away with murder; it's much more difficult to evade tax.
Then that is more gift issues that Hastert has because according to the IRS

"Who pays the gift tax?
The donor is generally responsible for paying the gift tax. Under special arrangements the donee may agree to pay the tax instead. Please visit with your tax professional if you are considering this type of arrangement."

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-...-on-Gift-Taxes
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Old 2nd June 2015, 09:45 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by BenBurch View Post
Yes, Hastert said this was a repayment of a past wrong, not blackmail. Hence the victim has no legal worries. Nor does he have to pay income tax (I am not a CPA so this is based on what I understand) on it as it was a redress of a debt.
IANACPA, but I would advise the victim not to employ your "strategy".
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Old 2nd June 2015, 10:33 AM   #120
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Come to think of it, even if you were the victim you could be guilty of concealing a crime if you take payment in exchange for silence, couldn't you?
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