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Tags general discussion , Israel issues , Israel-Palestine conflict , Palestine issues , US-Israel relations

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Old 21st May 2021, 06:55 PM   #1761
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
What appears to have been actually said;

Iranian Parliament Speaker Mohammad Baqer Qalibaf called on the Muslim states to increase efforts and unity to uproot the Zionist regime which is like a "cancerous tumor" in the region.

This says nothing about destroying Israel. This is a bit like the US attitude towards e.g. Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Syria, etc. In fact probably a little more polite than many US politicians rhetoric about the regimes in control of these countries. One could argue whether the current Israeli government is a 'Zionist regime', but it does not seem an extreme description, Likud would be regarded as a zionist party and is the dominant party in the current Israeli government. A change from the current zionist regime is probably necessary for a successful peace process.
The "Zionist Regime" Qalibaf wishes to exterminate is Israel herself, not any particular administration. But at least he refrained from mentioning giant octopi strangling the entire planet with its greedy tentacles. That must have required a heroic effort of restraint.
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Old 21st May 2021, 07:10 PM   #1762
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
In Iran (which is not a fully democratic state), it is probably better to not complain too much, but this doesn't mean there is no freedom of expression at all there. You might think the situation of the Jews in Iran might be particularly difficult and painful, but that doesn't seem to be the case:

(https://eu.usatoday.com/in-depth/new...ate/886790002/)
The fading shadow of Iranian Jews (in Iran) are fully aware of what their propaganda function is in exchange for not being hung for treason. Smile, and tell the puff piece journalists/activists exactly what they want to hear.
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Old 22nd May 2021, 09:42 AM   #1763
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
In Iran (which is not a fully democratic state), it is probably better to not complain too much, but this doesn't mean there is no freedom of expression at all there. You might think the situation of the Jews in Iran might be particularly difficult and painful, but that doesn't seem to be the case:

(https://eu.usatoday.com/in-depth/new...ate/886790002/)
Nice. Your source actually answers my question:
He quickly pointed out: "The regime is not too concerned about its Jews as long as they don’t become involved in politics and don’t say anything positive about Israel."
Oops.
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Old 22nd May 2021, 05:21 PM   #1764
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
"The regime is not too concerned about its Jews as long as they don’t become involved in politics and don’t say anything positive about Israel."
Oops.
It's a sad fact of life that countries run by fundamentalist religious regimes don't support freedom of speech the way we do.

Quote:
Pro-Israel and conservative lobbyists are encouraging state lawmakers to outlaw antisemitism in public education, from kindergarten through to graduate universities. But the proposed definition of antisemitism is so wide that, in addition to standard protections against hate speech towards Jews, it would also prohibit debate about the human rights violations of the Israeli government...

Randy Fine, a Republican from Florida who was instrumental in passing in May the first state law outlawing antisemitism in public education... has faced controversy in the past over his aggressive opposition to public debate about Israel. Earlier this year he called a local Jewish constituent a “Judenrat” because the man had attended a forum titled: Palestine/Israel, Opening the Dialogue.
Criticism of the Israeli government
Quote:
Zunes argues that the mainstream and conservative Jewish organizations have "created a climate of intimidation against many who speak out for peace and human rights or who support the Palestinians' right of self-determination." Zunes has been on the receiving end of this criticism himself: "As a result of my opposition to US support for the Israeli government's policies of occupation, colonization and repression, I have been deliberately misquoted, subjected to slander and libel, and falsely accused of being "anti-Semitic" and "supporting terrorism"; my children have been harassed and my university's administration has been bombarded with calls for my dismissal."
The Real Purpose of Trump’s Executive Order on Anti-Semitism
Quote:
Donald Trump has a knack for taking some of humanity’s most problematic ideas and turning them on their head to make them even worse. He has done it again. On Wednesday, he signed an executive order that will allow federal funds to be withheld from colleges where students are not protected from anti-Semitism—using an absurdly defined version of what constitutes anti-Semitism... Jared Kushner published an Op-Ed in the Times in which he stressed that the definition of anti-Semitism used in the executive order “makes clear what our administration has stated publicly on the record: Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism...

The President’s new order will not protect anyone against anti-Semitism, and it’s not intended to. Its sole aim is to quash the defense—and even the discussion—of Palestinian rights.”
Oops.
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Old 22nd May 2021, 08:14 PM   #1765
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
It's a sad fact of life that countries run by fundamentalist religious regimes don't support freedom of speech the way we do.



Criticism of the Israeli government

The Real Purpose of Trump’s Executive Order on Anti-Semitism

Oops.
Have the US Zionist filth demanded government hang anti-Zionists?
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Old 23rd May 2021, 10:18 AM   #1766
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Oops.
Who are you arguing against?
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Old 24th May 2021, 09:25 PM   #1767
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Well, with the last 11-days' flare-up, we are back to Gaza being at the center of this conflict. (It may seem that Jerusalem is the center, but that's a distraction the HAMAS is using to stir up a rebellion. It's a time-tested method, Arabs declaring Jerusalem is infested with Jews and they need to be slapped down, hard.)

A few years ago, I posted about the WestGaza Proposal.
It seems that the new US Admin. has never even heard of this proposal.
I'm hoping Blinken can step in and say "This is how we see things..." and point to WestGaza as a way out of this jam.

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2...r-palestinians
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Old 24th May 2021, 10:14 PM   #1768
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
Well, with the last 11-days' flare-up, we are back to Gaza being at the center of this conflict. (It may seem that Jerusalem is the center, but that's a distraction the HAMAS is using to stir up a rebellion. It's a time-tested method, Arabs declaring Jerusalem is infested with Jews and they need to be slapped down, hard.)

A few years ago, I posted about the WestGaza Proposal.
It seems that the new US Admin. has never even heard of this proposal.
I'm hoping Blinken can step in and say "This is how we see things..." and point to WestGaza as a way out of this jam.

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2...r-palestinians
I doubt that Egypt would be happy to lose Sinai, it would be better to try to make Gaza an independant state, in my opinion.
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Old 25th May 2021, 05:36 PM   #1769
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
I doubt that Egypt would be happy to lose Sinai, it would be better to try to make Gaza an independant state, in my opinion.
Egypt is fighting Islamic Jihadists in N. Sinai, the entire area is a lawless disaster.
Egypt would like nothing better than to have a Palestinian 'strongman' like Dahlan come in and take over.
Egypt is an occupier of Palestinian lands across the Rafiah salient. The Palestinian city of Rafiah was split in half by fencing and barbed wire in 1982. Literally, families were separated, and that situation exists to this day.

Egypt is cash-strapped (ain't we all?!!!) and the promise of hundreds of billions from Saudis and USA and others, is a pretty attractive offer for some rough desert terrain that is home to essentially nobody. And the bonus, it takes the Sinai-invading Jihadists out of the Egyptian military's hair and puts the onus on the Palestinians to clean up their acts.

Gaza is headed to be basically uninhabitable shortly, according to experts on the subject.
The past week bumped that up.
You realize that Gaza now has an incredible amount of rubble to clear (imagine the amount of debris that the flattening of all those office towers has left behind, and buildings in proximity that are so badly damaged they must now be demolished also). Israel isn't going to let in large quantities of cement without some iron-clad assurances it won't go towards reconstructing tunnels, that much I can promise you.

The West Bank and the suburban enclave of our capital city is not going to become a Palestinian State.

Let me repeat that, in case it's not clearly understood.
The West Bank is not going to be a Palestinian State.

This is the proposal, in detail. (I've offered the link previously).
Hopefully after Lapid and Bennet take over, the discussion about a GreaterGaza Palestine State will start to percolate into mainstream diplomacy.
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/anno...state-solution

Last edited by webfusion; 25th May 2021 at 05:40 PM. Reason: Added linky to the NewState proposal
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Old 26th May 2021, 12:50 AM   #1770
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
Egypt is fighting Islamic Jihadists in N. Sinai, the entire area is a lawless disaster.
Egypt would like nothing better than to have a Palestinian 'strongman' like Dahlan come in and take over.
Egypt is an occupier of Palestinian lands across the Rafiah salient. The Palestinian city of Rafiah was split in half by fencing and barbed wire in 1982. Literally, families were separated, and that situation exists to this day.

Egypt is cash-strapped (ain't we all?!!!) and the promise of hundreds of billions from Saudis and USA and others, is a pretty attractive offer for some rough desert terrain that is home to essentially nobody. And the bonus, it takes the Sinai-invading Jihadists out of the Egyptian military's hair and puts the onus on the Palestinians to clean up their acts.

Gaza is headed to be basically uninhabitable shortly, according to experts on the subject.
The past week bumped that up.
You realize that Gaza now has an incredible amount of rubble to clear (imagine the amount of debris that the flattening of all those office towers has left behind, and buildings in proximity that are so badly damaged they must now be demolished also). Israel isn't going to let in large quantities of cement without some iron-clad assurances it won't go towards reconstructing tunnels, that much I can promise you.

The West Bank and the suburban enclave of our capital city is not going to become a Palestinian State.

Let me repeat that, in case it's not clearly understood.
The West Bank is not going to be a Palestinian State.

This is the proposal, in detail. (I've offered the link previously).
Hopefully after Lapid and Bennet take over, the discussion about a GreaterGaza Palestine State will start to percolate into mainstream diplomacy.
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/anno...state-solution
webfusion, you seem to be an Israeli citizen, so I suppose this Arab-Israeli conflict must have special meaning to you.

I doubt that Mohammed Dahlan is popular in Gaza:
Quote:
Mohammad Yusuf Dahlan ... is a Palestinian politician, the former leader of Fatah in Gaza. ...
Other Palestinians have criticized Dahlan. Jibril Rajoub, with whom he cultivated a deep and personal rivalry, claimed in 2003 that everybody knew Dahlan was an Israeli agent. ...
Dahlan is alleged to have enriched himself through corruption; his personal wealth has been estimated at well over $120 million. Others claim that, for the sake of deterring political rivals and counterweighting the numerous armed militias, he maintained a private army in the Gaza Strip in 2003 and 2004, which was trained and equipped by American services, with Israel intending to force a conflict between Dahlan's forces and Hamas.
... Acting Prime Minister of PNA, Nabil Shaath, alleged that Dahlan "played a crucial role in shaping the deal” of the Israel–United Arab Emirates peace agreement, which was denounced by the Palestinian National Authority. Shaath accused him of "neglecting the interests of his homeland".[58] Dahlan was also branded as a “traitor” in the street protests of West Bank and Gaza Strip, where demonstrators trampled and torched the portraits of Donald Trump, Mohammed bin Zayed, Benjamin Netanyahu and Dahlan.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Dahlan)

The Gaza strip is so small, for such a large population, it would perhaps make sense to give Rafah fully to the Palestinians, as you suggest.

It seems to me that a Eastern Palestinian state could be created in the West Bank and East Jerusalem (in line with United Nations Security Council resolutions), and a Western Palestinian state could be created in Gaza, with perhaps a unified Rafah, to try to alleviate the Palestinian suffering for many years. After a good peace deal, Palestinians could also work in Israel and Egypt, they don't need to stay confined in small Gaza.
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Old 27th May 2021, 08:52 AM   #1771
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So we have a ceasefire, and Hamas has reinforced its grip on the Gaza Strip, Netanyahu has improved his electoral chances, its a win-win! You know as long as you aren't a Israeli or Palestinian civilian who suffered in the exchange.
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Old 27th May 2021, 02:14 PM   #1772
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
So we have a ceasefire, and Hamas has reinforced its grip on the Gaza Strip, Netanyahu has improved his electoral chances, its a win-win! You know as long as you aren't a Israeli or Palestinian civilian who suffered in the exchange.
1. Netanyahu has NOT improved his electoral chances.
The opposite, actually, as the June 2nd deadline for Lapid's efforts to form a Gov't. shows that he probably can, with Bennett (who will be first in a rotational Premiership).

2. HAMAS has NOT reinforced anything, as they now may have to do something that is kinda unheard-of for these Jihadists --- namely, start talking with Israel.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/egypt-...easefire-talks

3. The USA is back in the peace-negotiations business, apparently, as Mr. Blinken runs around over there, hat-in-hand.
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Old 29th May 2021, 01:03 AM   #1773
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Rutgers Law Schools statement condemning Antisemitism


https://newbrunswick.rutgers.edu/cha...-anti-semitism


Rutgers Law Schools Statement Apologizing for Condemning Antisemitism


https://newbrunswick.rutgers.edu/chancellor/apology
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Old 29th May 2021, 03:02 PM   #1774
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Originally Posted by Graham2001 View Post
Rutgers Law Schools statement condemning Antisemitism


https://newbrunswick.rutgers.edu/cha...-anti-semitism


Rutgers Law Schools Statement Apologizing for Condemning Antisemitism


https://newbrunswick.rutgers.edu/chancellor/apology
It appears they both redirect to the same page now.

Full Text:
On Hatred and Bigotry
May 29, 2021

Rutgers deplores hatred and bigotry in all forms. We have not, nor would we ever, apologize for standing against anti-Semitism.

Neither hatred nor bigotry has a place at Rutgers, nor should they have a place anywhere in the world. At Rutgers we believe that anti-Semitism, anti-Hinduism, Islamophobia and all forms of racism, intolerance and xenophobia are unacceptable wherever and whenever they occur.

Jonathan Holloway
President and University Professor
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Old 30th May 2021, 11:51 AM   #1775
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
1. Netanyahu has NOT improved his electoral chances.
The opposite, actually, as the June 2nd deadline for Lapid's efforts to form a Gov't. shows that he probably can, with Bennett (who will be first in a rotational Premiership).

2. HAMAS has NOT reinforced anything, as they now may have to do something that is kinda unheard-of for these Jihadists --- namely, start talking with Israel.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/egypt-...easefire-talks

3. The USA is back in the peace-negotiations business, apparently, as Mr. Blinken runs around over there, hat-in-hand.
Well 1 is a pleasant surprise, though 2 remains to be seen.
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Old 31st May 2021, 04:24 PM   #1776
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I found this commentary on a recent New York Times editorial on Jerry Coynes blog.


The original title of the editorial was "Attacks on Jews Over Israel are Gifts To The Right"


The title then changed to "The Crisis of Anti-Semetic Violence", but the content did not.


https://whyevolutionistrue.com/2021/...ticize-israel/
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Old 1st June 2021, 09:28 AM   #1777
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They've since covered their tracks:

Originally Posted by Graham2001 View Post
Rutgers Law Schools statement condemning Antisemitism


https://newbrunswick.rutgers.edu/cha...-anti-semitism
https://web.archive.org/web/20210528...-anti-semitism


Quote:
Rutgers Law Schools Statement Apologizing for Condemning Antisemitism


https://newbrunswick.rutgers.edu/chancellor/apology
https://web.archive.org/web/20210528...cellor/apology
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Old 1st June 2021, 11:47 AM   #1778
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Originally Posted by Stylesjl View Post
It appears they both redirect to the same page now.

Full Text:
On Hatred and Bigotry
May 29, 2021

Rutgers deplores hatred and bigotry in all forms. We have not, nor would we ever, apologize for standing against anti-Semitism.

Neither hatred nor bigotry has a place at Rutgers, nor should they have a place anywhere in the world. At Rutgers we believe that anti-Semitism, anti-Hinduism, Islamophobia and all forms of racism, intolerance and xenophobia are unacceptable wherever and whenever they occur.

Jonathan Holloway
President and University Professor
That is exactly what they have done.
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Old 1st June 2021, 12:55 PM   #1779
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
I doubt that Egypt would be happy to lose Sinai, it would be better to try to make Gaza an independant state, in my opinion.
The independent state approach has already been tried. It's called Jordan. And yet here we are. The Palestinians who remain in Israel have given me no reason to believe that making another independent state will be any more peace-conducive than the last independent state.

The problem is not that Gaza isn't an independent state. The problem is that Israel is. There's only three ways to solve that problem: Get rid of Israel. Get rid of the people who have a problem with Israel. Convince the people who have a problem with Israel to give up their problem. Making Gaza an independent state does none of those things, except to get rid of Israel by gradual degrees.

Therefore I conclude: That Michel proposes an independent state in Gaza because he wishes to get rid of Israel. That he approves of the Palestinian policy of terrorism and propaganda to carve off pieces of Israel in support of this goal.

Michel, do you believe the region would be better off if Israel had lost the 6 Day War or the Yom Kippur War?

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Old 1st June 2021, 12:58 PM   #1780
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The independent state approach has already been tried. It's called Jordan. And yet here we are. The Palestinians who remain in Israel have given me no reason to believe that making another independent state will be any more peace-conducive than the last independent state.

The problem is not that Gaza isn't an independent state. The problem is that Israel is. There's only three ways to solve that problem: Get rid of Israel. Get rid of the people who have a problem with Israel. Convince the people who have a problem with Israel to give up their problem. Making Gaza an independent state does none of those things, except to get rid of Israel by gradual degrees.

Therefore I conclude: That Michel proposes an independent state in Gaza because he wishes to get rid of Israel. That he approves of the Palestinian policy of terrorism and propaganda to carve off pieces of Israel in support of this goal.

Michel, do you believe the region would be better off if Israel had lost the 6 Day War or the Yom Kippur War?
One could conceive of a one state solution, aka Israel, in which Palestinians are equal citizens.

This would mean the end of the Zionist project, as allowing Arabs to become full citizens would mean Israel would no longer be a country solely for Jews.

I don't see how Jewish supremacist apartheid state is a necessary condition for peace. I don't see how peace is possible so long as apartheid policies are continued.

I agree that a 2 state solution seems an unlikely path forward. Decades of illegal settlements by Israel has turned already disjointed Palestinian territory into swiss cheese.
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Old 1st June 2021, 01:29 PM   #1781
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"Jewish supremacist" is a lie.
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Old 1st June 2021, 02:02 PM   #1782
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The independent state approach has already been tried. It's called Jordan. And yet here we are. The Palestinians who remain in Israel have given me no reason to believe that making another independent state will be any more peace-conducive than the last independent state.

The problem is not that Gaza isn't an independent state. The problem is that Israel is. There's only three ways to solve that problem: Get rid of Israel. Get rid of the people who have a problem with Israel. Convince the people who have a problem with Israel to give up their problem. Making Gaza an independent state does none of those things, except to get rid of Israel by gradual degrees.

Therefore I conclude: That Michel proposes an independent state in Gaza because he wishes to get rid of Israel. That he approves of the Palestinian policy of terrorism and propaganda to carve off pieces of Israel in support of this goal.

Michel, do you believe the region would be better off if Israel had lost the 6 Day War or the Yom Kippur War?
Yes, probably.

If, in 1967, the Israelis had done (possibly militarily) just what was necessary to stop Arab harassment, there would probably be no settlement in the West Bank, and Gaza would be more free. Instead, they went on a conquest spree, the consequences of which are still felt today.

There is clearly a military imbalance in favor of Israel, which is maintained by the U.S., which is not conducive to a balanced peace.

I don't believe it is really difficult to stop the occupation to find peace. What is hard is to convince the Israelis and the influential Americans to do it.
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
One could conceive of a one state solution, aka Israel, in which Palestinians are equal citizens.
I agree that, in the current situation, this option should be considered, and might be interesting too.

With the Black Live Matters movement, such a solution might resonate more in the U.S..

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Old 1st June 2021, 03:41 PM   #1783
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
Yes, probably.

If, in 1967, the Israelis had done (possibly militarily) just what was necessary to stop Arab harassment, there would probably be no settlement in the West Bank, and Gaza would be more free. Instead, they went on a conquest spree, the consequences of which are still felt today.
Do you the Arab harassment was justified?

Do you think the region would be better off today, if Israel had been unable to stop it, and the Arab coalition had achieved its military goals in 1967?
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Old 1st June 2021, 03:43 PM   #1784
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
There is clearly a military imbalance in favor of Israel, which is maintained by the U.S., which is not conducive to a balanced peace.
Historically, whenever Israel has lacked a military advantage, its Arab neighbors have tried to invade and conquer it. I'd say the current imbalance is more conducive to a balanced peace than the alternative.

What makes you think that things would get more peaceful for Israel if its military were substantially weaker?
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Old 1st June 2021, 06:08 PM   #1785
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Do you the Arab harassment was justified?
No, I don't think so.
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Do you think the region would be better off today, if Israel had been unable to stop it, and the Arab coalition had achieved its military goals in 1967?
Perhaps, I am not sure about this. There is no question that Israeli and U.S. policies have caused great suffering (think about Afghanistan for example).

I am not convinced Egypt had big conquest goals in 1967. Egyptian president Nasser made probably a big mistake when he closed the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping. Israel had a right to fight back, but probably went too far, and for too long (overreacted).

I believe the international community has a duty to defend Israel (if necessary) when it is invaded, or when its existence is (really) threatened.
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Old 1st June 2021, 06:10 PM   #1786
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Historically, whenever Israel has lacked a military advantage, its Arab neighbors have tried to invade and conquer it. I'd say the current imbalance is more conducive to a balanced peace than the alternative.

What makes you think that things would get more peaceful for Israel if its military were substantially weaker?
Everybody knows, I think, that Israel has an overwhelming military advantage, thanks to (among other factors) the massive military aid it receives from the U.S., about 3.8 billion U.S. dollars in 2020 (https://www.bbc.com/news/57170576). I believe this aid should be cut off to force Israel to change its policies, and make the necessary concessions. Of course, should it appear that Israel is becoming too weak to address the real threats facing it, then the aid might have to be restored.
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Old 1st June 2021, 10:17 PM   #1787
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
I believe the international community has a duty to defend Israel (if necessary) when it is invaded, or when its existence is (really) threatened.
The "International Community" will throw Zionist Israel to the wolves first chance it gets. Israel will defend herself... win or lose.
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Old 2nd June 2021, 04:21 AM   #1788
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
"Jewish supremacist" is a lie.
How do you have a Jewish state that doesn't explicitly privilege Jews over all other ethnic/religious groups?

The Zionist project is inherently one that calls for elevating on part of the population over the others.

Groups have been warning that Israel was steadily been becoming an apartheid state for decades, and with the continued passage of more laws codifying Jewish supremacy into law, credible international observers like Human Rights Watch are now saying that Israel is an apartheid state.
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Old 2nd June 2021, 03:01 PM   #1789
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Courtesy of Yahoo News


Quote:
Google’s head of diversity strategy claimed Jewish people had an “insatiable appetite for war and killing” in a blog that has been condemned by antisemitism campaigners.


Kamau Bobb, who has worked at the tech giant since 2018, made the comments in a blog post in 2007 entitled “If I were a Jew”.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/googl...165353227.html


As noted in the article the blog post dates from 2007.
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Old 2nd June 2021, 04:17 PM   #1790
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Here is the original article. At least for now.

It's self congratulatory drivel. His apology is typical "sorry if I was hurtful", "I expressed myself poorly" boilerplate butt-covering.

I'm curious to see how Google employee activist groups respond to all of this. Should be interesting.
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Old 2nd June 2021, 06:04 PM   #1791
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
Everybody knows, I think, that Israel has an overwhelming military advantage, thanks to (among other factors) the massive military aid it receives from the U.S., about 3.8 billion U.S. dollars in 2020 (https://www.bbc.com/news/57170576). I believe this aid should be cut off to force Israel to change its policies, and make the necessary concessions.
How would cutting off this aid force Israel to change it policies? To whom would it be making concessions?
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Old 2nd June 2021, 06:13 PM   #1792
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
How do you have a Jewish state that doesn't explicitly privilege Jews over all other ethnic/religious groups?
Establishing an ethnostate for the purpose of preserving an ethnic group does not require believing that group is superior to others, the way white supremacists believe that whites are superior to other. Nor is privileging that ethnicity within their ethnostate the same as believing that that ethnicity should be globally supreme over all others. So when you use the racial supremacy language, I call it a lie.
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Old 3rd June 2021, 04:43 AM   #1793
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Quote:
Last night, Israeli settlers from the illegal outpost of Havat Ma’on set fire to hay bails in the Palestinian village of Tuba, in the South Hebron Hills.

This is what occupation looks like.
https://twitter.com/bentreyf/status/1399986884424736769

The ethnic cleansing of Israel goes on. The settlers will not stop until it's impossible for Palestinians to continue existing in these areas.
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Old 3rd June 2021, 07:35 AM   #1794
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
https://twitter.com/bentreyf/status/1399986884424736769

The ethnic cleansing of Israel goes on. The settlers will not stop until it's impossible for Palestinians to continue existing in these areas.
What was your opinion of incendiary terrorism against Israel? Were you upset about it?
Thousands of dunams in Israel were set alight by organized terror groups.
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Old 3rd June 2021, 07:38 AM   #1795
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
What was your opinion of incendiary terrorism against Israel? Were you upset about it?
Thousands of dunams in Israel were set alight by organized terror groups.
It's bad. It's probably a good thing we don't provide direct military aid to Hamas, a group that engages in acts of violence against non-military targets.

Wish we could apply even a fraction of the same scrutiny to the routine violation of human rights perpetrated by our ally Israel, which receives 3.8 billion USD every year.
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Old 3rd June 2021, 08:19 AM   #1796
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
It's bad. It's probably a good thing we don't provide direct military aid to Hamas, a group that engages in acts of violence against non-military targets.

Wish we could apply even a fraction of the same scrutiny to the routine violation of human rights perpetrated by our ally Israel, which receives 3.8 billion USD every year.
American military FMF is appreciated by Israel, and I am not quite sure where you get the idea that we routinely violate human rights with the F35's and F16's and Apaches that are supplied to the Israeli Air Force.
Also, do you think that Iron Dome is a system that violates human rights?

As it happens, the head of the UNRWA in Gaza was told to GTFO because he told the truth.
You wanna go after human rights violations? Look elsewhere.
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Old 3rd June 2021, 10:56 AM   #1797
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
It's bad. It's probably a good thing we don't provide direct military aid to Hamas
Given that money is fungible, I'm not sure why you think this qualifier really matters.
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Old 3rd June 2021, 10:59 AM   #1798
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
How would cutting off this aid force Israel to change it policies? To whom would it be making concessions?
If we cut off all aid to Israel, chances are they would make concessions to China, not to the Palestinians. They aren't stupid.
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Old 3rd June 2021, 11:02 AM   #1799
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Establishing an ethnostate for the purpose of preserving an ethnic group does not require believing that group is superior to others, the way white supremacists believe that whites are superior to other. Nor is privileging that ethnicity within their ethnostate the same as believing that that ethnicity should be globally supreme over all others. So when you use the racial supremacy language, I call it a lie.
This strikes me as a strange point to quibble over.

The laws of Israel treats Jews as a superior class of citizen within the borders of the country. Hell, it treats Jews globally as superior to their own Arab citizens. It's easier for foreign Jews to immigrate to Israel and become a citizen than it is for Arabs living within occupied territory to become citizens of their own homeland.

I'm not really interested in why Israel is codifying apartheid into law. Whether it's rooted in a belief that Arabs are inherently, genetically inferior or not, the impact is the same.
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Old 3rd June 2021, 01:26 PM   #1800
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
This strikes me as a strange point to quibble over.

The laws of Israel treats Jews as a superior class of citizen within the borders of the country. Hell, it treats Jews globally as superior to their own Arab citizens. It's easier for foreign Jews to immigrate to Israel and become a citizen than it is for Arabs living within occupied territory to become citizens of their own homeland.

I'm not really interested in why Israel is codifying apartheid into law. Whether it's rooted in a belief that Arabs are inherently, genetically inferior or not, the impact is the same.
First of all, the laws of the State of Israel have nothing in them pertaining to "superior classes" --- as it stands Arab citizens aren't even required to defend their country (no draft into the military for them). We Jews handle that; you're welcome.

Secondly, the word "apartheid" has an actual meaning. And the Israeli society ain't even remotely fitting the proper definition. (It is actually an insult to the Africans who suffered, while lowering the bar to a point where even the USA can still be considered an apartheid regime!)

Thirdly, Israel is prepared to live in peace with Arab neighbors. No matter if they be Saudis, Palestinians, Jordanians, Egyptians, Syrians, or Lebanese.
Why do you think the Bahrainis are thrilled to be in partnerships with Israel? Those Arabs seem to be OK with the Jewish State.

Lastly, regarding immigration.
Name another nation, anywhere on earth, where Jews (including those from Ethiopia, India, Argentina, Canada, France, etc.) are welcomed as family.
We've been praying and hoping for this for millenia.
You seem angry that we have our own country and run it quite successfully.

Arabs can go live in any of THEIR 22 nations, who is stopping them?
Oh, wait, they are not allowed to just move into Saudi Arabia? Syria? Jordan? How odd.
https://www.hrw.org/report/2010/02/0...ir-nationality
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