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Tags crickets , Cuba conspiracies , Cuba incidents , mass hysteria , microwave weapons , psychogenic illness , sonic weapons , US-Cuba relations

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Old 17th July 2021, 07:02 AM   #881
Gord_in_Toronto
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia
Should that not be Fantasia?
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Old 17th July 2021, 08:32 AM   #882
dann
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Originally Posted by carlosy View Post
Now it happens in Vienna:
Quote:
... The exact cause of the ailments in Vienna, which U.S. government agencies formally refer to as “anomalous health incidents” or “unexplained health incidents,” remains unknown, ...
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-...ndrome-hotspot

Were any "unidentified flying objects" or "unexplained aerial phenomena" observed in the area?

Quote:
Quote:
... Privately, Burns has called the maladies “attacks” rather than incidents.

I bet he has ...
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 17th July 2021, 09:28 AM   #883
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A couple of things I find interesting in the new article in The New Yorker:

1. Notice how the description of the alleged attacks have changed over time along with the explanations, instead of the other way around. When the media started reporting about the 'Havana syndrome', and the favourite idea was that it consisted of super-sonic attacks, the focus was on scary sounds following people around - or not. After the favourite hypothesis has shifted to microwave weapons, sounds are still mentioned, but the focus is on the alleged victims "feeling as though they were standing in an invisible beam of energy."

Quote:
... C.I.A. officers and State Department employees first reported experiencing strange sensations of sound and pressure in their heads in 2016 and 2017. Some of the patients said the sensations seemed to follow them around their homes, apartments, and hotel rooms in the Cuban capital. Some of the patients described feeling as though they were standing in an invisible beam of energy. Vienna Is the New Havana Syndrome Hot Spot (The New Yorker, July 16, 2021)

2. How to make sure that the 'syndrome' spreads to CIA agents and other operatives all over the world:

Quote:
On December 3, 2020, Gina Haspel, Trump’s C.I.A. director, whom White House national-security officials described as “skeptical” that the syndrome was real, sent a message to C.I.A. officers worldwide, encouraging them to report any unexplained health incidents that might be Havana Syndrome.
You really can't claim that they didn't ask for it!

3. I have mentioned this before, and xjx388 has claimed that it isn't true: The USA has been trawling for cases of the alleged syndrome. In this respect, its commissions and medical teams play a role much like the Vatican's Miracle Commission: The Science of Miracles: How the Vatican Decides (Live Science, July 9, 2016):

Quote:
The number of possible syndrome cases around the world fluctuates frequently as new suspected cases are added to the list while other cases, deemed by doctors to be unrelated ailments, are removed from the list. As of late May, more than a hundred and thirty possible cases had been reported around the world. The C.I.A. accounted for some fifty of those cases. The rest were mostly U.S. military and State Department personnel and their family members. A senior national-security official recently told me, of the latest case count, “The only thing we can say definitively on the number is that we don’t know the exact number.”

So they are dealing with an unknown (at least by us) number of people who feel that they have been attacked and report it as they were encouraged to do, but medical doctors then decide that some of those "ailments" are not worthy of being recognized as caused by attacks and they are then eliminated from the group of legit attack victims.

Yeah science, bitch!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 17th July 2021, 06:57 PM   #884
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BBC story on it.

More than 20 officials have reported symptoms similar to Havana Syndrome - a mystery brain illness - since President Joe Biden took office in January.

The syndrome is unexplained, but US scientists say it is most probably caused by directed microwave radiation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57875322
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Old 17th July 2021, 10:37 PM   #885
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
... The syndrome is unexplained, but US scientists say it is most probably caused by directed microwave radiation. ...

The US scientists who said it was probably caused by microwave radiation had no expertise in microwave radiation. It is from the NAS report.

Much like with the alien vehicle 'explanation' of UFO or UAP sightings, which has become increasingly unlikely after everybody got cell phones with cameras, every new
'incident' makes me wonder: So many alleged attacks by (now) directed microwave weapon, and yet not one single directed microwave has been detected.

It is even more inexplicable when it happens in Vienna:
Quote:
Senior American diplomats and spies in Vienna were on the lookout for Havana Syndrome. The Embassy in Vienna was better prepared for the ailment than most—it has its own relatively well-equipped health clinic. The U.S. Embassy is well guarded, with the street in front of it closed off on both ends to prevent vehicles from parking nearby. Pedestrians who try to take pictures of the building are often stopped and questioned by security guards, who patrol the area.
Vienna Is the New Havana Syndrome Hot Spot (The New Yorker, July 16, 2021)

Why isn't each and every room at US embassies and at the residences of every US spy, diplomat and security officer equipped with one of these?
Professional Lab Microwave Leakage Detector Do It Yourself DIY Test Kit MD115 (Amazon, $8.51)
Why doesn't each and every CIA agent have one of these hand-held devices? They are a little more expensive, but still ...
High Precision Microwave Detector HT-M2 Digital LCD Display Microwave Leakage Detector Radiation Meter Tester High Sensitivity to Radiation and Built in Alarm Function (Amazon, $30.99)

Just asking ...
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 18th July 2021, 01:19 AM   #886
dann
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Originally Posted by carlosy View Post
Now it happens in Vienna:
Quote:
... The exact cause of the ailments in Vienna, which U.S. government agencies formally refer to as “anomalous health incidents” or “unexplained health incidents,” remains unknown, ...
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-...ndrome-hotspot

Were any "unidentified flying objects" or "unexplained aerial phenomena" observed in the area?

UHI seems to be the official acronym!

Quote:
“In coordination with our partners across the U.S. government, we are vigorously investigating reports of possible unexplained health incidents among the U.S. Embassy Vienna community,” the State Department said in their announcement of the investigation obtained by The Hill.
“Any employees who reported a possible UHI received immediate and appropriate attention and care,” the statement added.
Biden administration investigating cases of 'Havana syndrome' in Austria (The Hill, July 17, 2021)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 18th July 2021, 10:22 AM   #887
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Quote:
In May, two defense officials said the Pentagon was drafting a memo to the entire US military and civilian workforce asking personnel to report any so-called anomalous health symptoms that might indicate they have been victims of Havana Syndrome, which has struck US diplomats, spies and military personnel around the world in recent years.
No final decision has been made on whether to issue the memo, but the fact it's being considered underscores the growing concern at the Pentagon's senior levels that they need to gather more information on the illness.
Austria probes reports of Havana Syndrome among US diplomats in Vienna (CNN, July 18, 2021)

The fact that it has been being considered for two months underscores that it doesn't seem to be considered a clear and present danger and that a memo may cause a lot of harm to U.S. espionage by spreading mass psychogenic illness to "US diplomats, spies and military personnel around the world."

Quote:
Although some are convinced the injuries are the result of directed energy attacks, others believe the growing number of cases could actually be linked to "mass psychogenic illness," in which people learning of others with symptoms begin to feel sick themselves.
U.S. probes health incidents among diplomats in Vienna similar to 'Havana Syndrome' (CBC.ca, July 17, 2021)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 23rd July 2021, 10:57 AM   #888
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Quote:
“There are currently no reports of Canadians in Vienna with health incidents and we continue to monitor the situation closely,” said John Babcock, spokesperson for the department, in an email on Thursday.
“We continue to stay in contact with our staff and all other relevant governments in Vienna.”
Global Affairs Canada confirms no Canadians in Vienna hit amid Havana syndrome reports (GlobalNews.ca, July 22, 2021)

I get the impression that Canada has tackled the 'Havana syndrome' in a very different manner than the USA, for instance by avoiding refererring to attacks, which seems to have been what has upset U.S. agents. I assume that this is the reason why Canadian embassy workers in the rest of the world haven't come down with the 'symptom' like their Americans colleagues.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 23rd July 2021, 11:24 AM   #889
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Quote:
Havana syndrome is "real, and it's serious," Burns says
Under Burns' direction, the CIA has tripled the number of full-time medical personnel at the agency who are focused on Havana syndrome and has shortened the waiting period for afflicted personnel to be admitted to the Walter Reed National Military Medical Center.
"I'm certainly persuaded that what our officers and some family members, as well as other U.S. government employees, have experienced is real, and it's serious," Burns said.
CIA Director Says He Is Escalating Efforts To Solve 'Havana Syndrome' Mystery (NPR, July 22, 2021)

Yes, it's real, but real what exactly? A real attack? A real disease? If so, what caused it? Could it just be a case of mass psychogenic illness?

Quote:
Officials say they are still unclear on the causes of the syndrome.
"Here's the hard reality right now: We do not know what caused these incidents. We do not know who, if anyone, is actually responsible," Secretary of State Antony Blinken said at a congressional hearing last month. The State Department is now requiring a baseline testing program for diplomatic employees before they leave for field assignments.

This is actually a very good idea because it makes it possible to distinguish any kind of age-related hearing loss or brain damage or damage related to earlier trauma from damage happening while on duty in Vienna, the White House, Guangzhou, Havana or any other place in the world.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 26th July 2021, 02:06 AM   #890
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Now also in Berlin! Apparently, any city known from spy movies may have outbreaks of the 'syndrome'
New ‘Havana syndrome’ cases reported by U.S. officials across globe, most notably in Berlin and Vienna (MSNBC, July 20, 2021)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 26th July 2021, 11:20 AM   #891
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This is probably pretty close to the truth:

Quote:
Members of Congress were last briefed on the issue in April and were troubled by the lack of answers, according to people familiar with the matter.
Some officials have attributed a recent rise in possible cases to the fact that more personnel are coming forward, in the wake of Burns elevating the illnesses and, in the eyes of some, destigmatizing it.
http://CIA officer who helped find b...vana Syndrome’ (WP, July 21, 2021)

An authority figure "elevating the illnesses" is a sure-fire way of helping mass psychogenic illness spread.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 26th July 2021, 11:28 AM   #892
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There are moments that skeptics are tempted to believe woo because it would be personally very satisfying.

I would very much like to believe that a bunch of CIA and state department ghouls are being targeted by secret commie brain lasers.... but, ya know, come on.
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Old 26th July 2021, 11:43 AM   #893
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
There are moments that skeptics are tempted to believe woo because it would be personally very satisfying.

I would very much like to believe that a bunch of CIA and state department ghouls are being targeted by secret commie brain lasers.... but, ya know, come on.
The obvious and rational answer is that these are the residua of having their minds read by a telepath. All this you see in films about telepaths being able to read minds without any side effects on the subject is just nonsense like all those fist fights where people are fine the next day with no post concussion syndrome after being knocked out.

So they just have to figure out the commie agent that has gone from Havanna to Washington and onto Vienna (was China also involved?).

(Bit of a surprise no cases from Moscow though?)
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Old 26th July 2021, 04:55 PM   #894
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
(Bit of a surprise no cases from Moscow though?)
That would be too obvious, so they would never do it on their own turf. But if it was a mass psychogenic illness there would be cases from Moscow, therefore the fact that there aren't is solid proof that the Russians are responsible for the attacks!
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Old 26th July 2021, 09:26 PM   #895
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
(Bit of a surprise no cases from Moscow though?)

There are cases everywhere!*

Experts: Former CIA agent victim of microwave weapon in Moscow (CNN, Feb. 25, 2021)
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

Quote:
Over a 26-year career with the CIA, Marc Polymeropoulos recruited spies in the back alleys of sketchy neighborhoods, chased terrorists across the Middle East and helped run operations against Russia.
But nothing in his tenure scared him as much as the symptoms that knocked him flat in a hotel room in Moscow in December 2017.
“I couldn't stand up,” he said. “I was falling over. I had an incredible sense of nausea and ringing in my ears. I was, frankly, terrified.”
CIA officer suffered crippling symptoms in Moscow. Was it 'Havana Syndrome'? (NBC News, Dec. 7, 2020)

Marc Polymeropolous is one of the few 'Havana syndrome' sufferers who is known by name. He has been very outspoken about his illness. He told Business Insider about his treatment for the illness at the Walter Reed National Military Medical Center, mentioned in post 876.


*ETA: It occurs to me that I haven't heard about any cases in Scandinavia. Directed microwave energy weapons are no match for hygge.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 26th July 2021 at 09:40 PM.
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Old 26th July 2021, 10:06 PM   #896
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Very short but excellent new article based mainly on Robert E. Bartholomew and Robert Baloh, authors of Havana Syndrome: Mass Psychogenic Illness and the Real Story Behind the Embassy Mystery and Hysteria:

Quote:
“If you look at the 2018 JAMA study — even before it was published, information was leaked to the press that many of the patients had mysterious white matter tract changes in their brains,” explains Bartholomew. (“White matter” refers to areas of the central nervous system made up of tracts. It affects learning and brain functions, and coordinates communications between different regions of the brain.) “However, when the study was published, only three had white matter tract changes — two were mild and one was moderate. This is not unusual. If you randomly picked 21 people from the streets of New York or Havana, you would have a similar breakdown, because white matter tract changes are common in everything from depression, to dementia, to normal aging.”
What Is ‘Havana Syndrome’ and Why Is it Making Americans Sick? (katiecouric.com, July 26, 2021)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 27th July 2021, 11:09 AM   #897
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Quote:
A never-before-published letter from the US Embassy community in Cuba argues that Washington should sustain full diplomatic functions despite the risks.

On September 21, 2017, more than 30 members of the US Embassy community in Havana, Cuba, sent a letter to the State Department imploring Secretary Rex Tillerson not to reduce the embassy staff in response to a series of mysterious “acoustic incidents” experienced by US intelligence and diplomatic personnel. “[W]e understand there are a series of decisions being made this week regarding the operating status of the Embassy,” the urgent letter stated. “We are aware of the risks of remaining at Post. And we understand there may be unknown risks.” Rather than an “ordered departure,” the diplomats and spouses proposed an alternative: “We ask that the Department give us the opportunity to decide for ourselves whether to stay or leave.”

Despite their determination to remain, Tillerson ordered a severe reduction of embassy personnel, effectively shuttering the consulate and leaving only a skeletal staff to handle emergencies.
Now Is the Time for Biden to Restaff the Havana Embassy (The Nation, July 23, 2021)

The unabridged letter is included in the article.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 1st August 2021, 12:56 PM   #898
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Quote:
And they (the Biden administration) have lowered the reporting threshold to encourage possible victims to report their symptoms.
CIA still investigating cause of ‘Havana Syndrome’ ailments affecting U.S. diplomats (PBS, July 30, 2021)

I wonder what exactly this lowering of the reporting threshold is. Feeling a bit under the weather? Having chills? Not feeling quite well? Most of the symptoms mentioned at the early stage of the alleged attacks were conditions that everybody experiences from time to time.

And then there is this:
Quote:
CIA has approached that hunt like it did the hunt for Osama bin Laden.

So now there really is a reason to be suspicious of anybody who shows up with an offer for you to get vaccinated!
Quote:
The CIA’s efforts to capture Osama bin Laden via a fake vaccination drive in Pakistan led to a rise in vaccine hesitancy in the years after the scheme was revealed.

In 2011, it was reported that the CIA had organised a fake vaccination drive in Abbottabad, Pakistan, reportedly administering hepatitis B vaccines to babies, while obtaining DNA samples to compare with that of bin Laden’s sister, who died in the US the year before. The CIA was attempting to find a child who was related to bin Laden, in an effort to pin down his whereabouts.

These reports led to uproar in Pakistan and a number of anti-vaccine campaigns were started by Islamic extremist parties.
CIA's hun for Osama bin Laden fueled vaccine hesitancy in Pakistan (New Scientist, May 11, 2021)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 7th August 2021, 11:26 AM   #899
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How to spread a 'syndrome'

Quote:
Fear of the mysterious illness is impacting diplomats' career decisions, sources say, with some foreign service officers deciding against taking jobs that they worry could make them targets of the unexplained phenomenon that has sickened hundreds of US officials over the past few years.
Two diplomats who spoke to CNN decided not to apply to jobs in Berlin and Vienna because they wanted to avoid cities where they had heard of incidents occurring.
(...)
But those who have not been impacted -- and fear the possibility -- still feel left in the dark. The lack of basic information has given rise to a whisper campaign that's spread among foreign service officers as they try to figure out if a job is vacant because the person who previously had it rotated out, or because the person had to take a medical leave.
Havana Syndrome stokes fear and frustration among diplomats over response from State Department (CNN, Aug. 2, 2021)

This case story is particularly interesting:

Quote:
Lindsay Bryda, who worked as an intern at the US consulate in Guangzhou in 2018, told CNN she had the first and only seizure of her life days after her internship there ended in July 2018.
Byrda says she first became aware of the health incidents during the first week of her internship in May 2018, when consular officials called a meeting with all American staff to tell them about officers at the consulate who had been sickened with symptoms similar to those experienced by diplomatic staff in Havana beginning in 2016. Medical evacuations followed, and Bryda only learned later that the foreign service officer who had lived in her apartment immediately before her went on to receive treatment for symptoms consistent with Havana Syndrome, she told CNN.
Bryda says she was subsequently told by the consulate's chief management officer that her health could be impacted and that she should vacate the apartment, which was in the Edinburgh International Apartment complex in Guangzhou. She returned from a brief trip to Beijing to find a police line across her door, she recalled.
Bryda, whose experiences were corroborated by another intern who worked with her at the time, suffered the seizure shortly thereafter during a trip to Thailand and says she relayed the incident to the State Department.

'But how can this possibly be mass psychogenic illness when it affects people all over the world and isn't limited to one place?!'

Well, this is how!!!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 7th August 2021 at 11:27 AM.
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Old 9th August 2021, 01:07 PM   #900
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Quote:
Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines convened a top-level meeting late last week to discuss the intelligence community's efforts to uncover the cause of the mysterious illness known as "Havana Syndrome." But even after months of intensified effort by multiple government agencies, evidence pinpointing the origin of the illness remains inconclusive, U.S. officials familiar with the matter said.
(...)
Officials familiar with the intelligence being evaluated say the origin of the incidents is an area of "active inquiry" and that several hypotheses — including that it is the work of Russian operatives using directed-energy technology to collect information from electronic devices — are still being investigated. Cuba, China and Iran have also been cited as potential actors, though the intelligence community has said it has not determined that the cases are the work of a foreign actor.
One U.S. official familiar with the government's efforts said the inquiry was a "humbling" undertaking — the murkiness and variability of cases, some of which have happened in classified locations, have complicated past inquiries into their cause.
(...)
Still, both victims and the lawmakers who have heard from them have steadily pressured the administration to publicly identify the incidents' cause, worrying that without public attribution — and meaningful consequences for any actors involved — their number will continue to grow.
Agencies whose personnel have been affected have recently boosted their outreach on the matter, without offering specifics on possible leads.
Top U.S. officials meet to discuss "Havana Syndrome" as cause remains unclear (CBS News, Aug. 9, 2021)

So the authorities can't say what happened, they don't know who (if anyone) is to blame, but "both the victims and the lawmakers" want the administration to "identify the incidents' cause", which is the best way to make sure that the number of 'incidents' "will continue to grow" as is the nature of mass psychogenic illness.

'Havana Syndrome' Attacks Still a Mystery (NYT, Aug. 9, 2021)

Quote:
The secretary sent an email to State Department staff Thursday,
(...)
"Employees going abroad are anxious about whether they or their families are at risk," Blinken wrote in the email, which was obtained by The Hill. "That's completely understandable, and I wish we had more answers for you."
Blinken to diplomats: 'I wish we had more answers' on Havana syndrome (The Hill, Aug. 6, 2021)

Blinken probably wishes that he had a credible answer for them, but neither he nor they care much for the increasingly obvious one.
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Old 10th August 2021, 07:41 AM   #901
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Blinken's latest statements have not gone unnoticed in Cuba:

Google translate:
Quote:
The New York Times reaffirms what Cuba has denounced so many times: there is no evidence of a sonic attack (+ Video)

The statement came after a meeting called by the director of National Intelligence, Avril D. Haines, with the intention of evaluating the investigations carried out on the alleged sonic attacks on State Department officials, CIA officials and their families.

The saga of the so-called «Havana syndrome», used by elements of the extreme right in the US and the Cuban-American mafia to justify a toughening of the policy towards Cuba, and reinforce the idea that Russia and China constitute a threat to world security is back in the news.

As reported on Monday by The New York Times, "the United States lacks evidence to blame other nations for the existence of sonic attacks against its citizens inside or outside the country."

The statement came after a meeting called by the director of National Intelligence, Avril D. Haines, with the intention of evaluating the investigations carried out on the alleged sonic attacks on State Department officials, CIA officials and their families.

Secretary of State Antony Blinken, present at the meeting, stated that these "unexplained health incidents" are a high priority, although there is no evidence to accuse any country with any certainty that microwaves are the cause of the illnes.
Reafirma The New York Times lo que Cuba ha denunciado tantas veces: no existe evidencia de ataque sónico (+ Video) (Granma.cu, Aug. 10, 2021)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 10th August 2021, 07:57 AM   #902
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Quote:
... McCaul’s bill more specifically calls on the U.S. to exact financial retribution on whoever is ultimately deemed responsible for the attacks. The bill would also restrict foreign assistance and arms exports.

“Around the world, American personnel are being attacked in their homes, in hotels, and even on public streets,” McCaul said in a statement.

“We must find out who is behind these attacks and hold them responsible. And we must reassure the people who serve our nation overseas that we have their backs.”

The bill also requires a report to Congress within six months covering the U.S. response to the attacks.
Top Foreign Affairs Republican seeks sanctions over 'Havana Syndrome' attacks (The Hill, Aug. 8, 2021)

'We have no idea who they are. We don't even really know what it is. But we have your backs!'
I am sure that the MIB are in hot pursuit of the assailants ...
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 11th August 2021, 10:27 AM   #903
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Skeptic Mag:
Quote:
A State Department report on 'Havana Syndrome' obtained by CNN through a Freedom of Information Act request "concludes that the US government's response and investigation into the so-called Havana Syndrome may have been botched from the beginning" and was characterized by "chaos" and disorganization (Oppmann, 2021). This may help to explain a recent New York Times report that the former Director of the Central Intelligence Agency under Donald Trump, Gina Haspel, has expressed skepticism as to whether an attack even took place (Barnes 2021). As the head of the world's most powerful data collection agency, if there had been clear and convincing evidence for the origin of 'Havana Syndrome,' she should have known.
The Biden CIA Is Re-Examining 'Havana Syndrome' (Skeptic Magazine on Facebook)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 17th August 2021, 12:01 PM   #904
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Thank you, dann, for keeping this thread going. It's my go-to source of info to stave off the 'targeted individual' claims I get from a true believer.
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Old 19th August 2021, 06:37 PM   #905
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IT'S BACK!

US officials in Berlin struck by ‘Havana syndrome’ symptoms
-- Guy Chazan in Berlin, August 19 2021

https://www.ft.com/content/7a289217-...b-7b0fa859926d

You'd think (TM), that with all the resources at the command of the US Government, it could afford to buy a Spectrum Analyzer or two. You can buy the basic components on the 'net and put one together for under $200. Ones that reach into the higher radar frequencies will set you back a bit more but I see one that goes to 22GHz for $2500.

Given all the cold War type speculation and paranoia, I would hope that very US embassy, consulate and outhouse was equipped with one by now.

The fact that no one has reported finding errant radio waves, my supposition is that there aren't any. Is the CIA sure those goats did not die? Maybe they were not stared at long enough?
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Old 19th August 2021, 11:09 PM   #906
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This one is based on the article in WSJ but not paywalled:
Quote:
The U.S. government is investigating after several staff members at the American embassy in Berlin started experiencing symptoms similar to a mysterious condition known as “Havana syndrome” that has been hitting U.S. diplomats and spies around the globe.

Two U.S. officials said the staff members in Berlin started reporting symptoms in recent weeks, confirming a report in the Wall Street Journal on Wednesday, including nausea, severe headaches, ear pain, fatigue and insomnia. Some were unable to work due to the severity of their symptoms and have been sent home.
US officials in Berlin report potential ‘Havana syndrome’ cases (Politico.eu, Aug. 19, 2021)

I guess that "in recent weeks" means that the new "baseline testing program for diplomatic employees before they leave for field assignments" mentioned in post 889, will come in handy now, but it may be only two cases. On the other hand, it could be a misunderstanding of the article saying that two US officials reported about others coming down with 'Havana syndrome':
Quote:
At least two US officials in Germany developed symptoms consistent with "Havana Syndrome" and sought medical treatment, according to a Wall Street Journal (WSJ) report published on Wednesday citing unnamed US diplomats.
(...)
Similar incidents had been reported recently by US officials in other European countries, the WSJ said, but the quoted diplomats did not provide further details.
The report added that the intelligence officers and diplomats who developed symptoms had been working in Russia-related areas, including cybersecurity, gas exports and "political interference."
US officials in Germany reportedly suffer 'Havana Syndrome' symptoms (DW, Aug. 19, 2021)
New cases in Berlin were already mentioned one month ago. See post 890.

The CIA appears to be working on the development of handheld microwave detectors:
Quote:
... another “element” of the Havana syndrome probe is to “develop portable sensors that could be widely distributed to detect attacks.” Clearly, Washington wants a way of both identifying and attributing these purported microwave attacks to a particular culprit, or culprits – which can only raise alarm bells, given it’s a matter of public record US intelligence services have ways of falsifying attribution for cyberattacks.
US ‘frustrated’ it has no evidence Russia is behind ‘Havana syndrome’ - but don’t expect the blame game to be over anytime soon (RT.com, Aug. 10, 2021)

The quotation in the RT article comes from the NYT article earlier this month: 'Havana Syndrome' Attacks Still a Mystery (NYT, Aug. 9, 2021)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 19th August 2021 at 11:13 PM.
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Old 23rd August 2021, 09:04 AM   #907
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It has not escaped the attention of the German media that the 'Havana Syndrome' has spread from Vienna to Berlin.
Der Spiegel focusses on the microwave idea:


Quote:
Auch kleine Antennen können so gebaut werden, dass sie Energie gebündelt auf ein überschaubar großes Ziel abstrahlen können – Experten sprechen von phasengesteuerten Gruppenantennen. Für Bangert ist vorstellbar, dass sie auch in einem Koffer Platz finden. »Solche Geräte können aussehen wie ein Tapeziertisch, den man ausklappt«, sagt er.
Strahlen aus dem Hinterhalt (Spiegel, Aug. 22, 2021)
You can also build small antennas so that they can radiate bundled energy to a manageably large target - experts speak of phase-controlled group antennas. For Bangert, it is conceivable that they could also fit in a suitcase. "Such devices can look like a wallpapering table that you fold out," he says.
Ambushed by rays

So now we know what to be on the lookout for: When the decorator comes knocking, he may be a Russian microwave sniper in disguise!

Kenneth R. Foster, the Department of Bioengineering at the University of Pennsylvania, is not impressed by the idea that cell phones could somehow be used to emit brain-damaging microwaves:

Quote:
Könnten Handys als Mikrowellenwaffe dienen? Foster findet das aus seiner Laborerfahrung völlig abwegig: »Wir reden hier über hochleistungsfähige Militärsender, die als exotische Waffen dienen – aber ganz sicher nicht über Handys oder andere Endkundengeräte.«
Doch genau diese starken Mikrowellen sind bislang nicht gemessen worden im Zusammenhang mit den Gesundheitsbeschwerden. Das sei verwunderlich, so Foster: »Ich kann mir kaum vorstellen, dass man Menschen mit derartig extremen Mikrowellenpulsen beschießen kann, ohne dass das auffällt. Bei so einem Angriff würden wohl die Bluetooth-Kopfhörer durchbrennen, und die Prozessoren in ihren Autos und Computern würden wohl beschädigt werden.«
Could cell phones serve as microwave weapons? From his lab experience, Foster finds this completely absurd: "We're talking about high-performance military transmitters that serve as exotic weapons - but certainly not about cell phones or other end-user devices."
But so far, these strong microwaves have not been detected in connection with the health complaints. This is surprising, according to Foster: “I can hardly imagine that you can shoot people with such extreme microwave pulses without them noticing. In an attack like this, the Bluetooth headphones would burn out and the processors in their cars and computers would be damaged."

I wonder if anybody has considered basing an entire season of X Files on the 'Havana syndrome' ...
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 24th August 2021, 10:35 AM   #908
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Possible Havana syndrome incident delayed Harris flight to Vietnam

CNN: https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/24/polit...nam/index.html
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Old 24th August 2021, 11:01 PM   #909
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Considering the symptoms of 'Havana syndrome', it's astonishing that US embassies all over the world aren't in constant lockdown:

Quote:
Victims of Havana syndrome have reported a varying set of symptoms and physical sensations, including sudden vertigo, nausea, headaches and head pressure, sometimes accompanied by a "piercing directional noise."
(...)
Two defense officials said in May that the Pentagon was drafting a memo to the entire US military and civilian workforce asking personnel to report any so-called anomalous health symptoms that might indicate they have been victims of Havana syndrome.
Possible Havana syndrome incident delayed Harris flight to Vietnam (CNN, Aug. 24, 2021)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 25th August 2021, 08:03 AM   #910
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Considering the symptoms of 'Havana syndrome', it's astonishing that US embassies all over the world aren't in constant lockdown:
I often have Havana Syndrome after overindulging in alcohol.
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Old 25th August 2021, 08:24 AM   #911
dann
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No, that's Havana Club syndrome.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 25th August 2021, 07:37 PM   #912
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Quote:
A high-ranking Canadian diplomat in Cuba was flown home for assessment earlier this year after experiencing neurological symptoms consistent with Havana syndrome. The man, who the lawyer described as “high-ranking,” had only been posted in Cuba for a short time before the incident in February.
https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...ck-lawyer-says

Summary: He was tested and found OK before he went. The Government told him there were no problems in Havana with Havana syndrome but when he got there all his colleges were talking about it. He did more research and then one day he got it too. When tested on return to Canada it was determined he had some sort of problem. A physiotherapist diagnosed him as having a "percussive force injury such as a targeted energy device that had likely hit the diplomat behind the right ear".

I'm trying to find out where in their training physiotherapists learn about targeted energy devices.

And remain somewhat suspicious about the potential physics and mechanisms for causes of the reported effects.

The official Government testing is not complete. "But, in the end, they were unable to make a determination about whether it was a case of Havana syndrome. They obtained some more information, and the diplomat is still waiting for an answer." Me too.
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Old 25th August 2021, 11:29 PM   #913
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
I'm trying to find out where in their training physiotherapists learn about targeted energy devices.

Quote:
In the meantime, he sought out a physiotherapist who treated what he diagnosed as a percussive force such as a targeted energy device that had likely hit the diplomat behind the right ear.
In the meantime =
Quote:
He again underwent testing. He was unable to complete a balance test without tipping over and doctors saw inconsistency in his brain waves. But, in the end, they were unable to make a determination about whether it was a case of Havana syndrome. They obtained some more information, and the diplomat is still waiting for an answer.

There is still the question of how he managed to find the one Canadian physiotherapist (I assume) who diagnoses and treats damage caused by "a percussive force such as a targeted energy device." I can't imagine that there is a big demand for that kind of physiotherapy, but I think this guy may have been instrumental in helping him find that particular therapist:

Quote:
Lawyer Paul Miller, who represents the diplomats and families suing the government for $28 million, says the latest case mirrors those experienced earlier by Canadian and U.S. diplomats in Cuba who were diagnosed with Havana syndrome.
“There is no other explanation for it, considering he can identify the time and date of the attack and the symptoms are the same as every other case.”

So he wrote down the time and date? Well, that settles it for me! There can be not other explanation: Putin did it!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 25th August 2021 at 11:36 PM.
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Old 28th August 2021, 01:11 AM   #914
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Quote:
Havana Syndrome Mapped
About 130 cases reported worldwide including 50 CIA personnel.
Cuba Germany China Russia Austria USA Poland Georgia Taiwan Australia Colombia Kyrgyzstan Uzbekistan
Havana syndrome MAPPED: Bizarre illness with Russian links causing havoc for US diplomats (Express, Aug. 25, 2021)

The cases in Vietnam are probably too recent to have been included, but it is weird that a UK newspaper does not mention the cases in London.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 28th August 2021 at 01:15 AM.
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Old 28th August 2021, 07:43 AM   #915
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
IT'S BACK!

US officials in Berlin struck by ‘Havana syndrome’ symptoms
-- Guy Chazan in Berlin, August 19 2021

https://www.ft.com/content/7a289217-...b-7b0fa859926d

You'd think (TM), that with all the resources at the command of the US Government, it could afford to buy a Spectrum Analyzer or two. You can buy the basic components on the 'net and put one together for under $200. Ones that reach into the higher radar frequencies will set you back a bit more but I see one that goes to 22GHz for $2500.

Given all the cold War type speculation and paranoia, I would hope that very US embassy, consulate and outhouse was equipped with one by now.

The fact that no one has reported finding errant radio waves, my supposition is that there aren't any. Is the CIA sure those goats did not die? Maybe they were not stared at long enough?
I already pointed out that these symptoms are typically caused by telepathic mind probes. All this about microwaves is communist misdirection, pure science fiction. What they need to do is review the post mortem findings on those goats.
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Old 28th August 2021, 09:36 AM   #916
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[quote]A physiotherapist diagnosed him as having a "percussive force injury such as a targeted energy device that had likely hit the diplomat behind the right ear". ]

A cosh?
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Old 28th August 2021, 12:50 PM   #917
dann
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Too primitive. Leaves tell-tale scars. I think they need to look into this:
Quantum sensors probe uncharted territories, from Earth’s crust to the human brain (Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America, Aug. 20, 2019)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 29th August 2021, 07:43 AM   #918
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I bet this will help spread the 'syndrome':

Quote:
Hundreds of American officials are believed to be suffering serious health issues from unidentified health incidents (UHI) occurring at U.S. posts across the globe — occurrences many posit to be attacks on American personnel.
(...)
“And that now raises the questions of if it was serious enough to protect the vice president, what about everyone else who's serving in these locations?” he added.
(...)
“We’re all aware of that [but] you have to give people information even if it’s ‘We’re working on this’ because the anxiety is so high,” one of the sources said.
“These people are on the edge, they’re fragile,” the source added.
Zaid said the lack of transparency has served as a roadblock to representing his clients — some are even unable to tell him where the incident took place.
Harris's delayed trip to Vietnam ratchets up Havana Syndrome fears (The Hill, Aug. 28, 2021)

And there are so many more potential victims than just diplomats and CIA agents:

Quote:
And another bill approved by the Senate in June and awaiting a vote in the House would allow financial support to injured State and CIA employees.
But Zaid said the legislation has serious gaps, excluding those who work for agencies beyond the CIA and State as well as others.
“They don't take into account past cases. They’re not taking into account family members who were impacted as much as the federal employees and were in the foreign countries because of their spouses who work for the federal government. They're not taking into account in some cases interns who worked for the federal government but weren't considered full federal employees but were there for the U.S. government. They're not taking into account retirees, including from Cuba,” he said.
The legislation also leaves it to each department to determine who should qualify for assistance, something Zaid said will lead to “completely arbitrary and capricious determinations.”

I see no reason why the 'Havana Syndrome' shouldn't be able to mutate and become more contagious than the Delta variant in a month or two. They already share many of the same symptoms:

Quote:
Documented injuries include short- and long-term symptoms of brain fog and headaches, vertigo, insomnia, and other cognitive and physical issues that have, for some, hastened retirement from government.

It is a disgrace that the Havana-syndrome long haulers have been ignored for so many years ...
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 30th August 2021, 06:02 AM   #919
Dabop
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And yet- the 'darstardly commies' despite having this 'superweapon' not only refuse to use it on other countries (many of who are more 'active' in anti Russian activities)- but even after it has been 'discovered' by their 'enemies' continue to use it on the US personel - and only the US personel...Noone else...
Amazing!!!
Almost as if it was an entirely made up 'story' by a single country- with known literal hatred of the accused countries- going back tens of decades.......
Funny that...
Add the entire lack of actual- you know- evidence that such a thing even exists (when you can readily buy the equipment needed for less than the price of a second hand 'clunker' off ebay!!!)- and this is well into 'flat earth' and 'we never went to the moon' land...
Scrub that- this BS makes moon hoaxers look positively sane....
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Last edited by Dabop; 30th August 2021 at 06:19 AM.
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Old 30th August 2021, 10:28 PM   #920
dann
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Originally Posted by Dabop View Post
And yet- the 'darstardly commies' despite having this 'superweapon' not only refuse to use it on other countries (many of who are more 'active' in anti Russian activities)- but even after it has been 'discovered' by their 'enemies' continue to use it on the US personnel - and only the US personnel...No one else...

Don't forget the Canadians, who, for some reason, are still 'attacked' exclusively in Cuba and not all over the world, which is kind of appropriate for something called the Havana syndrome.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 30th August 2021 at 10:29 PM.
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