IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » General Skepticism and The Paranormal
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags ufos

Reply
Old 21st June 2021, 08:51 PM   #481
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 73,408
Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
They use the term 'Unidentified Aerial Phenomena' to mean 'objects that cannot be identified': my original point is that to assume they are craft is incorrect. They have not been identified as craft, only as objects.
No. They call them "Phenomena" because they can't be definitively identified as objects. Bokeh, to take one example, is not an object.
__________________
We are all #KenBehrens
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd June 2021, 12:29 AM   #482
Cosmic Yak
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 4,561
Originally Posted by jadebox View Post
But, nowhere in the emails that were released through the FOIA are they referred to as "unidentified.". In fact the emails list rather mundane possibilities.

https://www.theblackvault.com/casefi.../18-F-0644.pdf
I was referring to the article in the OP:

Quote:
"The Navy designates the objects contained in these videos as unidentified aerial phenomena," Joseph Gradisher, the official spokesperson for the Deputy Chief of Naval Operations for Information Warfare, reportedly told John Greenewald at The Black Vault.
Quote:
To be clear, this doesn't mean the videos show aliens, or that the US Navy is suggesting that's what they are. It only means the unidentified aerial phenomena (UAPs) are objects that cannot be identified.
Do the emails contain different terminology?
__________________
Fortuna Faveat Fatuis
Cosmic Yak is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd June 2021, 12:32 AM   #483
Cosmic Yak
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 4,561
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
No. They call them "Phenomena" because they can't be definitively identified as objects. Bokeh, to take one example, is not an object.
Again, I'm just going from the article in the OP:

Quote:
"The 'Unidentified Aerial Phenomena' terminology is used because it provides the basic descriptor for the sightings / observations of unauthorised / unidentified aircraft / objects that have been observed entering / operating in the airspace of various military-controlled training ranges."

To be clear, this doesn't mean the videos show aliens, or that the US Navy is suggesting that's what they are. It only means the unidentified aerial phenomena (UAPs) are objects that cannot be identified.
Oh, and- perhaps I've missed something here- what is 'Bokeh'?
__________________
Fortuna Faveat Fatuis
Cosmic Yak is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd June 2021, 12:41 AM   #484
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
 
Pixel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 13,900
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokeh

UAP can also be, for example, reflections of lights from the ground, or even from the cockpit in which the observer is sitting.

I think the term UAP was coined to allow for such things, but people can still inadvertently slip into using the term object when talking about them.
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett
Pixel42 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd June 2021, 12:47 AM   #485
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 73,408
Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Oh, and- perhaps I've missed something here- what is 'Bokeh'?
Bokeh is a visual artifact caused by the reflection of light inside a camera lens. Related to lens flare. Absolutely not an object, but almost certainly the explanation for one of the recently leaked but confirmed videos.
__________________
We are all #KenBehrens
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd June 2021, 12:50 AM   #486
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 73,408
Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
I think the term UAP was coined to allow for such things, but people can still inadvertently slip into using the term object when talking about them.
Absolutely. Especially since we've all grown up thinking of them as "unidentified flying objects". UAP is without doubt a better term, but the old "UFO" is going to be pretty hard to dislodge.
__________________
We are all #KenBehrens
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th June 2021, 03:57 PM   #487
Apathia
Philosopher
 
Apathia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 6,073
Anticlimactic Report for your amusement:

https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/docum...P-20210625.pdf
__________________
"At the Supreme Court level where we work, 90 percent of any decision is emotional. The rational part of us supplies the reasons for supporting our predilections."
Justice William O. Douglas

"Humans aren't rational creatures but rationalizing creatures."
Author Unknown
Apathia is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th June 2021, 04:55 PM   #488
Marcus
Illuminator
 
Marcus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,573
Originally Posted by Apathia View Post
Anticlimactic Report for your amusement:

https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/docum...P-20210625.pdf
I can't wait for Coast to Coast tonight (12-4am Central time) , the UFO enthusiasts will be wailing, they were so sure this would be "Disclosure" were the government admits they know all about aliens on Earth.
Marcus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th June 2021, 10:36 PM   #489
Hellbound
Merchant of Doom
 
Hellbound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not in Hell, but I can see it from here on a clear day...
Posts: 14,630
Frankly, all UFOs (and really all "paranormal phenomena") fall into 2 categories:

1. There is not enough information to determine what caused the effect
2. It is explained by natural phenomena.

Frankly, the entirety of UFOs and the paranormal are nothing but an elaborate and extended argument from ignorance.
__________________
History does not always repeat itself. Sometimes it just yells "Can't you remember anything I told you?" and lets fly with a club. - John w. Campbell
Hellbound is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th June 2021, 06:34 PM   #490
Thorkil2
Scholar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 63
Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
OK. Here is Mick West's explanation of the Nimitz FLIR1 "Tic-Tac" UFO Video
I had a bit of a chuckle over this. It's the wordiest description of infinity focus that I've ever seen, something any photographer could state in a few words. Depending on the focal length of the lens, anything over about 100 feet away, give or take, will be at optical infinity, i.e., in sharp focus, so the pilot is clueless on that one, completely wrong.

Last edited by Thorkil2; 27th June 2021 at 06:39 PM. Reason: correct quote notation.
Thorkil2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th June 2021, 02:00 PM   #491
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 52,721
Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
Frankly, all UFOs (and really all "paranormal phenomena") fall into 2 categories:

1. There is not enough information to determine what caused the effect
2. It is explained by natural phenomena.

Frankly, the entirety of UFOs and the paranormal are nothing but an elaborate and extended argument from ignorance.
That is what they want you to think:

__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th June 2021, 05:47 PM   #492
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
 
Gord_in_Toronto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,175
Originally Posted by Thorkil2 View Post
I had a bit of a chuckle over this. It's the wordiest description of infinity focus that I've ever seen, something any photographer could state in a few words. Depending on the focal length of the lens, anything over about 100 feet away, give or take, will be at optical infinity, i.e., in sharp focus, so the pilot is clueless on that one, completely wrong.
Yup. The expression "Depth of Field" covers it all.
__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick
Gord_in_Toronto is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2021, 04:27 PM   #493
Spektator
Watching . . . always watching.
 
Spektator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Southeastern USA
Posts: 1,981
Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
Frankly, all UFOs (and really all "paranormal phenomena") fall into 2 categories:

1. There is not enough information to determine what caused the effect
2. It is explained by natural phenomena.

Frankly, the entirety of UFOs and the paranormal are nothing but an elaborate and extended argument from ignorance.
I'd add 3: Lies and hoaxes.
Spektator is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2021, 05:03 PM   #494
Hellbound
Merchant of Doom
 
Hellbound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not in Hell, but I can see it from here on a clear day...
Posts: 14,630
Originally Posted by Spektator View Post
I'd add 3: Lies and hoaxes.

Lies and hoaxes are natural phenomena


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
History does not always repeat itself. Sometimes it just yells "Can't you remember anything I told you?" and lets fly with a club. - John w. Campbell
Hellbound is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2021, 05:53 PM   #495
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 53,625
Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
Lies and hoaxes are natural phenomena
I think it helps to make the distinction.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2021, 10:10 PM   #496
jadebox
Master Poster
 
jadebox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 2,040
Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
Lies and hoaxes are natural phenomena
As would be alien spacecraft.

Edit: And everything else. :-)
jadebox is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd July 2021, 02:59 AM   #497
Hellbound
Merchant of Doom
 
Hellbound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not in Hell, but I can see it from here on a clear day...
Posts: 14,630
Originally Posted by jadebox View Post
As would be alien spacecraft.

Edit: And everything else. :-)

Alright, alright! Petard, hoisted, I get it

But the point I was getting at is every case with sufficient information to determine a cause has a cause that is not aliens.

The only ones where there’s any question are ones where there’s just not enough information.

There’s no positive indication of alien spacecraft. “Aliens” hide in the negative information.
Now to be fair, I’m fairly certain there’s intelligent life out there somewhere, but them visiting Earth? No. The sheer size of the universe means visiting another solar system is prohibitively costly by any feasible method we can determine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
History does not always repeat itself. Sometimes it just yells "Can't you remember anything I told you?" and lets fly with a club. - John w. Campbell
Hellbound is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd July 2021, 04:47 AM   #498
jadebox
Master Poster
 
jadebox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 2,040
Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
Alright, alright! Petard, hoisted, I get it

But the point I was getting at is every case with sufficient information to determine a cause has a cause that is not aliens.

The only ones where there’s any question are ones where there’s just not enough information.

There’s no positive indication of alien spacecraft. “Aliens” hide in the negative information.

Now to be fair, I’m fairly certain there’s intelligent life out there somewhere, but them visiting Earth? No. The sheer size of the universe means visiting another solar system is prohibitively costly by any feasible method we can determine.
That's exactly the way I feel. I am sure intelligent beings exist (or existed) elsewhere in the universe. But, the chance of them intersecting with us over the vastness of space (and time!) Is nil.

I do think there is a fair chance (maybe a 50% chance) that we will find good evidence of extraterrestrial life while I am still around to hear the news. But, of course, that life will be sort of like bacteria. That interests me more than blurry videos of splotches of light.

Last edited by jadebox; 3rd July 2021 at 04:50 AM.
jadebox is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th July 2021, 12:17 AM   #499
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 73,408
Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
But the point I was getting at is every case with sufficient information to determine a cause has a cause that is not aliens.
"Throughout history, every mystery ever solved has turned out to be... not magic."

- Tim Minchin
__________________
We are all #KenBehrens
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st July 2021, 02:16 PM   #500
Axxman300
Philosopher
 
Axxman300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 5,444
Just going to leave this story about a "trained professional" mis-identifying a common object as something else right here:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/s...paign=sharebar

Quote:
The dozy PC had left a Glasgow police station at about midnight on Tuesday and noticed the object in the sky “following her.”

She tried to lose the “drone” as she drove towards the shopping complex at the Fort, just off the M8. She called the general Police Scotland complaints number on 101 and told the call handler she was being followed by a drone along the M8 and “couldn’t lose it”. The officer, who is in her first two years of service, was told to return to her station where she would be met by a senior officer.

She was found standing in the police yard with her hood up trying to hide from the “drone” and pointed out the bright white dot in the sky. They told her it was Jupiter, which is often visible on a clear night.
Could have been more embarrassing, could have been the moon.
__________________
Disingenuous Piranha
Axxman300 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th July 2021, 09:49 AM   #501
xterra
So far, so good...
 
xterra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: On the outskirts of Nowhere; the middle was too crowded
Posts: 3,830
Originally Posted by Apathia View Post
Anticlimactic Report for your amusement:

https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/docum...P-20210625.pdf

No government report any place, any time, ever said, "We don't need more money to investigate this stuff."
__________________
Over we go....
xterra is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th July 2021, 10:56 PM   #502
Warp12
Graduate Poster
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 1,769
Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Just going to leave this story about a "trained professional" mis-identifying a common object as something else right here:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/s...paign=sharebar



Could have been more embarrassing, could have been the moon.
This seems like a highly credible source. The story provides many intricate details of the case. I appreciate the high standards we keep around here.
__________________
"It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see." - Henry David Thoreau
Warp12 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th July 2021, 04:16 AM   #503
Cosmic Yak
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 4,561
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
This seems like a highly credible source. The story provides many intricate details of the case. I appreciate the high standards we keep around here.
Is this sarcasm?
__________________
Fortuna Faveat Fatuis
Cosmic Yak is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th July 2021, 03:18 PM   #504
Axxman300
Philosopher
 
Axxman300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 5,444
...And J.J Abrams has a 4-part "documentary" airing on Showtime called "UFO" coming soon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU9NhwYKCLM

So there's that.
__________________
Disingenuous Piranha
Axxman300 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th July 2021, 03:26 PM   #505
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The great American West
Posts: 20,337
Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
...And J.J Abrams has a 4-part "documentary" airing on Showtime called "UFO" coming soon:
Plot twist: all the UFOs turn out to be lens flares.
JayUtah is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th July 2021, 03:43 PM   #506
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
 
Gord_in_Toronto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,175
Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Plot twist: all the UFOs turn out to be lens flares.
Nope. Every single example in the show will be completely inexplicable by the credulous cretins who produce the show. EVERY SINGLE ONE!

Not a single migrating pelican, not a single secret Mogul balloon, not a single flashing lighthouse beam, not a single flare dropping behind a mountain range, no frozen urine, no visible strings, no reflections, no obvious hoaxes, no miss-identified planets and etc.

__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick
Gord_in_Toronto is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th July 2021, 08:04 PM   #507
Warp12
Graduate Poster
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 1,769
Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Is this sarcasm?
Am I that transparent?
__________________
"It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see." - Henry David Thoreau
Warp12 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th July 2021, 07:23 AM   #508
Lplus
Muse
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 777
Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
Nope. Every single example in the show will be completely inexplicable byto the credulous cretins who producewatch the show. EVERY SINGLE ONE!

Not a single migrating pelican, not a single secret Mogul balloon, not a single flashing lighthouse beam, not a single flare dropping behind a mountain range, no frozen urine, no visible strings, no reflections, no obvious hoaxes, no miss-identified planets and etc.

ftfy

The producers of the show know exactly what's going on
__________________
Those who are most fanatical in their condemnation of others are often mortally afraid that, in their deepest subconcious, they agree with those who they are condemning.
Life isn't fair, Princess; anyone who says it could be is selling a political ideology.
Communism actively works against the fundamental urge of the human animal to survive and prosper, even at the expense of others, whilst Nazism relies on that urge.

Last edited by Lplus; 29th July 2021 at 07:25 AM.
Lplus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th July 2021, 08:10 AM   #509
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
 
Gord_in_Toronto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,175
Originally Posted by Lplus View Post
ftfy

The producers of the show know exactly what's going on
You're even more cynical than I am.
__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick
Gord_in_Toronto is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th July 2021, 08:34 AM   #510
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
 
JayUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The great American West
Posts: 20,337
My comment was a veiled reference to J.J. Abrams' preferred cinematography style, but I agree it's probably going to be the standard pander-fest.
JayUtah is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th July 2021, 11:27 AM   #511
Reformed Offlian
Muse
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 604
Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
My comment was a veiled reference to J.J. Abrams' preferred cinematography style, but I agree it's probably going to be the standard pander-fest.
...and you can see their home planets being blown up in the background!
Reformed Offlian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th July 2021, 06:25 PM   #512
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
 
Gord_in_Toronto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,175
One sighting solved. . .

""SkyWest 3626, did you see the UFO?" asked the air traffic controller in one transmission."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/29/us/la...rnd/index.html

. . . maybe.
__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick
Gord_in_Toronto is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st August 2021, 07:10 PM   #513
Thorkil2
Scholar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 63
Originally Posted by Lplus View Post
ftfy

The producers of the show know exactly what's going on
Sadly, some of the players do not. Not only face time on TV, but a Following! Real scientists need not apply.
Thorkil2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st August 2021, 07:20 PM   #514
Thorkil2
Scholar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 63
Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Just going to leave this story about a "trained professional" mis-identifying a common object as something else right here:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/s...paign=sharebar



Could have been more embarrassing, could have been the moon.
I have a friend who, while in the Navy, had the watch on deck of a ship one night. He is no flake and is, in fact an extremely stable individual. He was first concerned, then panicked because he saw a light bouncing around all over the sky in ways that no aircraft could possibly perform. He made a panicky call to his superiors, who came out and observed that it was Venus moving up and down as the ship rolled. He was then and remains deeply embarrassed.
Thorkil2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th August 2021, 01:03 AM   #515
Explorer
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,180
Originally Posted by jadebox View Post
That's exactly the way I feel. I am sure intelligent beings exist (or existed) elsewhere in the universe. But, the chance of them intersecting with us over the vastness of space (and time!) Is nil.

I do think there is a fair chance (maybe a 50% chance) that we will find good evidence of extraterrestrial life while I am still around to hear the news. But, of course, that life will be sort of like bacteria. That interests me more than blurry videos of splotches of light.
So are you ruling out completely the possibility that your proposed "intelligent beings" existing elsewhere in the universe, are sufficiently intelligent enough to construct sophisticated exploration vehicles, perhaps even just unoccupied robotic craft capable of travelling vast interstellar distances?

I agree that the odds are stacked against this possibility, at least based on our own current knowledge, but is this totally impossible? I suppose your term "nil" suggests just that.
Explorer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th August 2021, 03:30 PM   #516
jadebox
Master Poster
 
jadebox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 2,040
Originally Posted by Explorer View Post
So are you ruling out completely the possibility that your proposed "intelligent beings" existing elsewhere in the universe, are sufficiently intelligent enough to construct sophisticated exploration vehicles, perhaps even just unoccupied robotic craft capable of travelling vast interstellar distances?

I agree that the odds are stacked against this possibility, at least based on our own current knowledge, but is this totally impossible? I suppose your term "nil" suggests just that.
Sorry .. I mean to say "virtually nil."

Last edited by jadebox; 5th August 2021 at 04:08 PM.
jadebox is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th August 2021, 02:42 PM   #517
Beerina
Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions
 
Beerina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 30,667
Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
OUt of curiosity, I googled a search of Krakatoa erupting 4,500 years ago.

I found nothing, but I didn't google for hours!

On Britannica, I found this: The only confirmed eruption prior to 1883 was a moderate one in 1680.

So - please let's see the evidence? Thanks!

Presumably the volcano did not appear ex nihilo.
__________________
"Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson

The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales now! More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?
Beerina is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th August 2021, 02:44 PM   #518
Beerina
Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions
 
Beerina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 30,667
Originally Posted by Thorkil2 View Post
I have a friend who, while in the Navy, had the watch on deck of a ship one night. He is no flake and is, in fact an extremely stable individual. He was first concerned, then panicked because he saw a light bouncing around all over the sky in ways that no aircraft could possibly perform. He made a panicky call to his superiors, who came out and observed that it was Venus moving up and down as the ship rolled. He was then and remains deeply embarrassed.

One night, I saw a light wayyy up in the sky that just hovered for 10 minutes, not moving at all. Even for a helicopter that would have been odd.

Then it suddenly moved and roared right over me.

Turns out it was a plane on a descent vector to the airport and happened to be descending right at me.
__________________
"Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson

The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales now! More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

Last edited by Beerina; 6th August 2021 at 02:46 PM.
Beerina is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2021, 06:18 AM   #519
Explorer
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,180
Originally Posted by jadebox View Post
Sorry .. I mean to say "virtually nil."
Sorry, I meant to say, for all intensive purposes, "nil"
Explorer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th August 2021, 03:15 PM   #520
Jim_MDP
Philosopher
 
Jim_MDP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: N.Cal/S.Or
Posts: 8,425
Originally Posted by Explorer View Post
Sorry, I meant to say, for all intensive purposes, "nil"
What about merely casual purposes?
__________________
----------------------
Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything.

"Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust.
"Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000.
Jim_MDP is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » General Skepticism and The Paranormal

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:27 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.