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Old 29th April 2020, 04:46 PM   #41
Steve001
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
The video I saw, had an idiot said they are going against the wind... the dumbest thing to say when we are flying. Aircraft fly in the air. Who said against the wind.
What idiot might that be?
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Old 29th April 2020, 06:16 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
Both of these links are dead for me.

Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
The standard that it does not resemble any known aircraft. Keep in mind the pilot described it as resembling a "Tictac". Perhaps it's some experimental aircraft.
Perhaps it is. Perhaps it's a trick of the light. Perhaps it's an alien spacecraft. Perhaps it's Thor in his chariot pulled by goats. Without more information, which we don't have and never will, there's no way to say anything specific about it. We don't know what it is, and it is irresponsible to say perhaps it's this or perhaps it's that.
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Old 29th April 2020, 09:58 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
When I read about impossible (at least for known aircraft) accelerations or velocities, I'm much more inclined to see that as a sign that whatever was seen wasn't real (optical illusion if visual, instrumental artifact of some kind if radar or other instruments), than I am to think that it is the result of some extraterrestrial supertech.
The first possibility that occurs to me in such cases is that it was something much smaller and closer than an aircraft. This is because of an anecdote that was posted here and discussed in detail, where the poster saw a light at a distant lake (probably car headlights) and later saw what he assumed was the same light doing impossible figure-of-eight maneuvers over the lake. Another poster did some research and discovered that the time and place matched when fireflies would be doing their mating flights.

The fact that you can only judge the distance of an object if you know its size and vice versa is, I suspect, behind quite a few "impossible maneuvers" anecdotes.
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Last edited by Pixel42; 29th April 2020 at 09:59 PM.
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Old 30th April 2020, 02:26 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
The fact that you can only judge the distance of an object if you know its size and vice versa is, I suspect, behind quite a few "impossible maneuvers" anecdotes.
It doesn't even have to be in poor light. Once walking in the country in Hampshire I saw a hare the size of a Shetland pony in a field. I don't know what happened as I moved but suddenly it was just a moderately large hare. I never did determine what trick of perspective made me see it as so big. Clear field, good light, clear headed. My guess would be it was probably on raised ground that wasn't clearly visible as being raised so it looked as though it was further away.
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Old 30th April 2020, 05:34 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Both of these links are dead for me.

Perhaps it is. Perhaps it's a trick of the light. Perhaps it's an alien spacecraft. Perhaps it's Thor in his chariot pulled by goats. Without more information, which we don't have and never will, there's no way to say anything specific about it. We don't know what it is, and it is irresponsible to say perhaps it's this or perhaps it's that.
I never inplied any specifics did I? I suggested something odd, that's all.
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FLIR heat signatures.
http://
https://youtu.be/5E7onF1c_T0

Last edited by Steve001; 30th April 2020 at 05:36 AM.
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Old 30th April 2020, 05:44 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
The fact that you can only judge the distance of an object if you know its size and vice versa is, I suspect, behind quite a few "impossible maneuvers" anecdotes.
Oh, absolutely.

From my apartment in the second largest city in Norway (Bergen, before you ask me to put it in my location field), I once saw three bright white specks flying around, going in and out of formation, moving, had they been aircraft far away, in a way impossible even for fighter jets.

Surprising thing was, it was surprisingly hard to tell if they were drones up there in the sky with white lights, or insects illuminated by the light from my apartment or some other artificial city light.

I think the main reason I was sure it wasn't UFOs was that three flying saucers clearly visibile over a major city would have made headlines. That, and it's weird that aliens trying to hide themselves from us would turn on their ships' lights and put on an air show :P .

However, it's very understandable to me that campers out in the dark of night, way out in the woods, seeing something like that illuminated by their headlamps or campfire, would be spooked and jump to flying saucers. Same reason our ancestors walking the woods saw trolls and other supernatural creatures.
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Old 30th April 2020, 05:49 AM   #47
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Oh, and the first object is obviously a Heavy Lifter from Star Wars. Since they are unarmed, they pose no threat, unless they decide to make off with a cargo container somewhere.

Seriously, though, the pilots sound like they're just messing around, and the rotation does seem to be caused by the camera, not the object itself, as was said here.

Also seriously, this has appeared in Norwegian media, too, and it's frustrating to me how they haven't asked for the opinion of skeptics, just quoted the pilots acting like they have no clue what's going on.
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Old 30th April 2020, 06:39 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Both of these links are dead for me.
Too many "http"s in those links for some reason.

Try these:
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


<edit> Nope, that's giving an error too, but if I cut and paste the URLs they work. How about this:

https://youtu.be/EDj9ZZQY2kA

https://youtu.be/5E7onF1c_T0

Last edited by Jack by the hedge; 30th April 2020 at 06:49 AM.
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Old 30th April 2020, 06:58 AM   #49
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One thing I notice from comparing the videos is that the bright unidentified thing stays locked in place in the display, as if it was an artefact created somewhere inside the camera system rather than an external object. The tracking seems, to my entirely inexpert eye, as if it's too perfect for the camera to be pointing itself at a real object. There are only a couple of little wobbles shown, one of which is right before the thing rotates so maybe due to some part of the tracking mechanism starting or stopping.
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Old 30th April 2020, 07:12 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
The tracking seems, to my entirely inexpert eye, as if it's too perfect for the camera to be pointing itself at a real object.
No, FLIR tracking is that good, especially when the target is so clearly demarcated and not apparently moving erratically.
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Old 30th April 2020, 07:19 AM   #51
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What strikes me initially is that an edge enhancement technique is being applied. The halo around the object is a telltale artifact of such a process. What this means is that the edge of the object is, to a certain degree, artificial. And if that false edge is being used to distinguish shape or rotational motion, it can very easily be misleading.
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Old 30th April 2020, 08:33 AM   #52
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I thought the 'U' in UFO stood for unidentified.

If they know they are alien spacecraft, they wouldn't call them UFOs anymore...
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Old 30th April 2020, 01:13 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Too many "http"s in those links for some reason.

Try these:
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


<edit> Nope, that's giving an error too, but if I cut and paste the URLs they work. How about this:

https://youtu.be/EDj9ZZQY2kA

https://youtu.be/5E7onF1c_T0
You could have saved yourself some typing because I reposted working links earlier.
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Old 30th April 2020, 01:18 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
One thing I notice from comparing the videos is that the bright unidentified thing stays locked in place in the display, as if it was an artefact created somewhere inside the camera system rather than an external object. The tracking seems, to my entirely inexpert eye, as if it's too perfect for the camera to be pointing itself at a real object. There are only a couple of little wobbles shown, one of which is right before the thing rotates so maybe due to some part of the tracking mechanism starting or stopping.
Tracking functions very well once the computer locks on to a target. You might have noticed in one of the clips tracking takes a few tries.
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Old 30th April 2020, 07:29 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
I thought the 'U' in UFO stood for unidentified.
But the 'F' stands for flying and the 'O' stands for object. So it (wrongly) excludes tricks of the light, unusual clouds, equipment malfunction, the planet Venus etc. The word UFO is intended to mean an aircraft of unknown origin - and if it's not one of ours then it must be extraterrestrial!

Quote:
If they know they are alien spacecraft, they wouldn't call them UFOs anymore...
Any spacecraft that we didn't make must be alien. That doesn't mean it's been identified.
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Old 30th April 2020, 07:52 PM   #56
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The cool kids are calling them UAPs now, Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon.
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Old 30th April 2020, 08:18 PM   #57
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For the object to stay fixed in position relative to the tracking aircraft, it needs to be straight ahead. If it is travelling at an angle to the tracking aircraft, the curve of pursuit will make the differences in angle apparent quickly, and it will change quickly. In the video, the tracking aircraft is curving to the left at a constant rate and speed. So for the object to stay so precisely centred in the FLIR image for so long, it needs to be tracing an extremely accurate curve at a very precise distance and speed from the tracking aircraft. Any variations and it would move around relative to the tracking aircraft. In other words, it is not flying in a straight line relative to the tracking aircraft. And that is exceptionally unlikely.

It is far more likely it is something on the tracking aircraft causing the image anomaly. Also the object seems to move against the background slightly as the aircraft encounters slight turbulence. So I'm going to put this down to image processing issues on the FLIR. The background commentary...not sure how contemporary that is. But if Harold Puthoff has anything to do with this, it will almost certainly involve bogosity. It's his stock-in-trade.
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Old 30th April 2020, 08:24 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
I never inplied any specifics did I? I suggested something odd, that's all.
To know whether some behaviour is odd, you need to know what kinds of behaviour are not odd. And to know that, you have to have some idea what it is. We don't have that, so there's no way to know what kind of behaviour is not odd, so we can't say that any kind of behaviour exhibited by whatever it is is odd.

Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
The cool kids are calling them UAPs now, Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon.
That's because there's no way to know whether they are actually objects. Calling them objects is an unjustified assumption.

If they happen not to be objects at all and are in fact camera glitches or tricks of the light or something like that, then the exhibited behaviour may not be odd. But we don't know.
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Old 1st May 2020, 11:51 AM   #59
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This playlist of short videos by user Mick West sufficiently explains all three of the released videos.

He brings up a good point about how the Navy's naming of one of the videos "Gimbal" in its internal documentation suggests that the Navy's own analysts figured out exactly what is happening in it.
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Old 1st May 2020, 03:03 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
This playlist of short videos by user Mick West sufficiently explains all three of the released videos.

He brings up a good point about how the Navy's naming of one of the videos "Gimbal" in its internal documentation suggests that the Navy's own analysts figured out exactly what is happening in it.
Why do skeptics always have to take the mystery out. 🙁

P.S. Good vids.
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Old 1st May 2020, 08:47 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
This playlist of short videos by user Mick West sufficiently explains all three of the released videos.
Thank you.
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Old 1st May 2020, 10:51 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
This playlist of short videos by user Mick West sufficiently explains all three of the released videos.

He brings up a good point about how the Navy's naming of one of the videos "Gimbal" in its internal documentation suggests that the Navy's own analysts figured out exactly what is happening in it.
Well, that's boring!




Thanks for the vids.
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Old 2nd May 2020, 11:14 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
This playlist of short videos by user Mick West sufficiently explains all three of the released videos.

He brings up a good point about how the Navy's naming of one of the videos "Gimbal" in its internal documentation suggests that the Navy's own analysts figured out exactly what is happening in it.
Thank you :3 .
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Old 2nd May 2020, 11:45 AM   #64
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Another thank you. Very helpful videos.
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Old 2nd May 2020, 12:33 PM   #65
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Oh my god, that Mick West channel on YouTube is a gold mine. Thank you so much.
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Old 2nd May 2020, 04:03 PM   #66
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Happy to help, my droogs.

Note the publish date of most of the videos, by the way. This guy had these all figured out back after they were first "leaked" by To The Stars a year ago.
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Old 2nd May 2020, 04:53 PM   #67
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Mick West's new master post regarding the videos on his site.

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/exp...-videos.11234/
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Old 3rd May 2020, 11:54 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Too many "http"s in those links for some reason.

Try these:
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


<edit> Nope, that's giving an error too, but if I cut and paste the URLs they work. How about this:

https://youtu.be/EDj9ZZQY2kA

https://youtu.be/5E7onF1c_T0

Failure to delete the http:// that comes up automatically in the insert weblink dialogue.
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Old 3rd May 2020, 05:35 PM   #69
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Here's a great analysis of a completely different UFO sighting that Mick West was able to do from is armchair:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/deb...e-window.6373/

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Old 4th May 2020, 08:08 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
And what was that? That is funny, there is no evidence for that BS.

What advanced technology?
The advanced technology exhibited. What did the pilots and radar operators say? I might add that many objects were encountered by naval aircraft in the days before this particular encounter. Did radars aboard ships track the objects that were later visually confirmed? Yes. That would indicate the objects in the videos had nothing to do with faults in the aircraft’s tracking systems. The Air Force has also experienced similar encounters over the decades where in some cases the objects were described by the pilots as saucer-shaped as mentioned in a science book at the U. S. Air Force Academy. And of course the radar footage of a huge object taken from a B-52 from Minot AFB that was confirmed visually in the air and on the ground. The objects were real and not drones.
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Old 4th May 2020, 08:22 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Happy to help, my droogs.

Note the publish date of most of the videos, by the way. This guy had these all figured out back after they were first "leaked" by To The Stars a year ago.
The fact the videos were declassified by the Pentagon is a clear indication the videos were not faked, especially since dissimilar airborne and shipboard tracking systems confirmed the objects that were confirmed visually as well.

The videos confirmed the objects are real and not drones.
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Old 4th May 2020, 08:47 AM   #72
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How about when military pilots describe the objects they encountered as saucer-shaped? You would be surprised what you can obtain from the U. S. Government under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) regarding to UFOs. I know, because my former base was involved in investigations where saucer-shaped objects dismantled our Minuteman missiles on multiple occasions as they hovered over the missile fields.
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Old 4th May 2020, 10:49 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
The advanced technology exhibited. What did the pilots and radar operators say? I might add that many objects were encountered by naval aircraft in the days before this particular encounter. Did radars aboard ships track the objects that were later visually confirmed? Yes. That would indicate the objects in the videos had nothing to do with faults in the aircraft’s tracking systems. The Air Force has also experienced similar encounters over the decades where in some cases the objects were described by the pilots as saucer-shaped as mentioned in a science book at the U. S. Air Force Academy. And of course the radar footage of a huge object taken from a B-52 from Minot AFB that was confirmed visually in the air and on the ground. The objects were real and not drones.
None of this relates to what you were asked. Point to something in the videos that demonstrates what you originally claimed:

Quote:
The UFOs exhibited advanced technology unknown to mankind.
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Old 4th May 2020, 11:28 AM   #74
korenyx
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Are you talking about this?:-

Pentagon releases three UFO videos taken by US navy pilotsWhenever you see this, you know that the 'object' is just reflected light.

I have seen an actual UFO close up, when I was child. The whole class saw it including the teacher. It was reported in the local newspaper with a drawing done by a friend of mine, and even reported to the Air force for Project Bluebook. I wasn't present at the time, but I did see it later. And yes, it was just a normal (man made, not alien) aircraft. How did I know it was the same craft? My friend's drawing was surprisingly accurate for a 7 year old, so it was instantly recognizable to someone who knew what that aircraft looked like.



Similarly, to someone who knows what a normal light (such as the sun or fishing lights) can look like when reflected off clouds or water etc., 'It accelerated like nothing I’ve ever seen' is instantly recognizable as an accurate description of the effect. No need to make up stories about an 'advanced technology unknown to mankind'!

A few years age the paper had a "UFO" photo on the front page but I could tell it was a plane at sunset and at an angle. Wichita used to be the Air Capitol and some people have planes in their garages. I still can't believe someone cleared that story for print.
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Old 4th May 2020, 06:59 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
How about when military pilots describe the objects they encountered as saucer-shaped? You would be surprised what you can obtain from the U. S. Government under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) regarding to UFOs. I know, because my former base was involved in investigations where saucer-shaped objects dismantled our Minuteman missiles on multiple occasions as they hovered over the missile fields.
I do not believe that ever happened.
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Old 4th May 2020, 08:16 PM   #76
Matthew Ellard
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409
...because my former base was involved in investigations where saucer-shaped objects dismantled our Minuteman missiles on multiple occasions as they hovered over the missile fields.
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I do not believe that ever happened.
It didn't. Skyeagle409's original claim was that another servicemen told him this rumour, at the time, when Skyeagle was an aircraft mechanic. As you can imagine the USAF prohibits its real ICBM servicemen telling outsiders if its ICBMs are working or not for obvious reasons.
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Old 4th May 2020, 09:16 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by StillSleepy View Post
Mick West's new master post regarding the videos on his site.

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/exp...-videos.11234/
This is a good summary, and I wonder if Skyeagle409 has had a look at it.
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Old 4th May 2020, 10:02 PM   #78
Matthew Ellard
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
This is a good summary, and I wonder if Skyeagle409 has had a look at it.
I don't think Skyeagle409 has any interest in facts, as indicated in the previous version of this thread, where he simply made up entire new stories that were easily debunked.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...lesham&page=16
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Old 5th May 2020, 03:32 PM   #79
skyeagle409
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
None of this relates to what you were asked. Point to something in the videos that demonstrates what you originally claimed:
Let me put it this way, the UFO incursions not involving aircraft, drones or balloons, have been occurring for years along the Southern California coastline as confirmed by multiple naval ships in the area even before the Navy's videos were made public, which incidentally, is the general area where Kelly Johnson (father of the U-2, A-12 and SR-71)and his wife, watched an UFO over the ocean. At the same time of their sighting, a Lockheed airplane was in the air on a test flight along the Los Angeles coastline. Constellation airframe 4301, was the prototype for a Navy Airborne Early Warning (AEW) aircraft, the WV-2 Warning Star and it was the aircrew of that aircraft that confirmed the UFO that Kelly Johnson and his wife had witnessed.



The objects in the videos are real artificial flying objects, not drones, nor the result of malfunctions of airborne and ship-based tracking systems. That is evident by the fact that radar controllers aboard the ship guided the aircraft to the general location of its radar contacts whereas visual contacts were made, so what you have here are multiple dissimilar tracking systems aboard the aircraft (FA-18's and an E-2) as well as radar contacts aboard the ships tracking the objects.



Anyone who claims the objects in the UFO videos were faked or a result of a problem with the aircraft's tracking systems are definitely mistaken to say the least.
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Old 5th May 2020, 04:25 PM   #80
skyeagle409
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
It didn't. Skyeagle409's original claim was that another servicemen told him this rumour, at the time, when Skyeagle was an aircraft mechanic. As you can imagine the USAF prohibits its real ICBM servicemen telling outsiders if its ICBMs are working or not for obvious reasons.

To put it mildly, the person I spoke with was one of the missile commanders whose Minuteman missiles were affected. In addition, my base (Hill AFB, UT) was the maintenance depot for the Minuteman missile and F-4 Phantom, which is why we were involved in the investigations and that includes the Boeing Aircraft Co. and sub-contractors. It was confirmed the missiles were shutdown from EMP from an external source outside the shielded cables. What was reported by Air Force security guards hovering over the missile fields when the missiles were shutdown? A UFO.

In addition, the reports were made public and the investigation reports are available under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). Here is one small example.

CBS News: Ex-Air Force Personnel: UFOs Deactivated Nukes






Star & Stripes quoted former Air Force Capt. Robert Salas, who was at Malmstrom Air Force Base in Montana in 1967 when 10 ICMs he was overseeing suddenly became inoperative - at the same time base security informed him of a mysterious red glowing object in the sky.

Robert Jamison, a retired USAF nuclear missile targeting officer, told of several occasions having to go out and "re-start" missiles that had been deactivated, after UFOs were sighted nearby.

Similar sightings at nuclear sites in the former Soviet Union and in Britain were related.

https://www.cufon.org/cufon/malmstrom/malm1.htm

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ex-air-...tivated-nukes/

Now, to get back on track regarding the Navy's UFO encounters.

Before Underwood spotted the flying object, he said, he received a tip from his commanding officer that there might be something strange in the sky. A few days earlier, a guided-missile cruiser called the USS Princeton had been tracking about eight to 10 mysterious flying objects near the Catalina and San Clemente islands in California.

https://www.history.com/news/navy-co...fo-videos-real
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