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Old 22nd September 2020, 05:20 PM   #201
Gord_in_Toronto
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Originally Posted by jakesteele View Post
Wait just a minute. Now all of a sudden astronomers and meteororologists
are expert witnesses? If they can be then so can Military pilots. Sorry, but you can't have it both ways. Besides, astronomers are looking hundreds of thousands and millions of light years away. There focal point of out there, not in the earth's atmosphere. If something flew through their field of vision they wouldn't know if it was a bird, a plane or Superman.


I see you are as much an expert on astronomy as you are on Flying Saucers.

You might take a look at: http://aquarid.physics.uwo.ca/all_sky.htm for example.

There are numerous cameras and networks of cameras around the planet that take pictures of the sky every night of the year. Lots of meteorites and fireballs. No winking and blinking UFOs.
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Old 23rd September 2020, 04:18 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by jakesteele View Post
Sorry, but I’m going to go with the combined resources of the military. They’ve got the skilled experts, the radar and other equipment and the data the witnesses, etc.

The preponderance of the evidence lies with the military. The sightings remain inconclusive or unknown.
I think to make a better case, you would need to show how the debunking videos are factually or methodologically incorrect, and how the methods used by the military in this case are better.
Just saying "these guys are better than those guys" is just your personal opinion otherwise.
I'm also a bit puzzled why you're getting so worked up about this.
If a sighting is of unknown cause, so what?
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Old 23rd September 2020, 05:32 AM   #203
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As someone who has been in the cockpit of a plane, I can assure you that it isn't a very good environment for observation. The windows aren't very large and there are gauges and displays and other stuff requiring immediate attention.

Astronomers, on the other hand, don't have to worry as much about running out of fuel or hitting a mountain. They can spend more time observing. They are always looking for new things or changes in the sky. If we were being visited by alien spacecraft, it is much more likely that an astronomer would be the first to notice.
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Old 23rd September 2020, 02:54 PM   #204
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I just joined a ufo Facebook page that seems secretive. I wonder what I will learn.
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Old 23rd September 2020, 07:11 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by MinnesotaBrant View Post
I just joined a ufo Facebook page that seems secretive. I wonder what I will learn.
The Truth, undoubtedly.
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Old 23rd September 2020, 09:28 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by jadebox View Post
As someone who has been in the cockpit of a plane, I can assure you that it isn't a very good environment for observation. The windows aren't very large and there are gauges and displays and other stuff requiring immediate attention.

Astronomers, on the other hand, don't have to worry as much about running out of fuel or hitting a mountain. They can spend more time observing. They are always looking for new things or changes in the sky. If we were being visited by alien spacecraft, it is much more likely that an astronomer would be the first to notice.
And on every hour of every day at 10,000 locations around the World trained weather observers go outside at look at he sky and report what the see. They see clouds and lightning and and contrails and rarer atmospheric phenomena such as Sun Dogs. They don't see flying saucers.
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Old 23rd September 2020, 09:33 PM   #207
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Also, it's worth observing that millions of people across the globe now carry high-definition cameras in their pockets. If there were really something to see, you'd have clear pictures of them.
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Old 24th September 2020, 07:35 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The Truth, undoubtedly.
seems to be mostly composed of people like you except funnier. I like the humorous pictures. I got in after taking a survey. One was someone that made a mock up of a silver ufo with a couple painted in silver paint. Another was what would happen if Aliens did make contact with Humans. saying we would either eat them or rob them or some such
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Old 24th September 2020, 11:26 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Also, it's worth observing that millions of people across the globe now carry high-definition cameras in their pockets. If there were really something to see, you'd have clear pictures of them.
I feel I have to kind of push back against this particular argument, because it's really an argument from incredulity.

Let's look at the record of videos that HAVE been taken with those high-definition cameras that millions of people across the globe are carrying in their pockets. Have they ever been really that great, really that steady? In-focus? By and large, no. Take a look at the thread I started a week ago, about the people in New Jersey who thought the Goodyear blimp was a UFO. Several people, armed with their high-definition cameras, took videos of it - and every single one of them was lousy, shaky, indistinct. A blurry smudge. That's what a video of an object looks like whose identity is totally obvious. How is a video of an object that's not as easily identified going to look?
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Old 24th September 2020, 11:54 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I feel I have to kind of push back against this particular argument, because it's really an argument from incredulity.

Let's look at the record of videos that HAVE been taken with those high-definition cameras that millions of people across the globe are carrying in their pockets. Have they ever been really that great, really that steady? In-focus? By and large, no. Take a look at the thread I started a week ago, about the people in New Jersey who thought the Goodyear blimp was a UFO. Several people, armed with their high-definition cameras, took videos of it - and every single one of them was lousy, shaky, indistinct. A blurry smudge. That's what a video of an object looks like whose identity is totally obvious. How is a video of an object that's not as easily identified going to look?
A very good question. I have been waiting for YEARS!
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Old 16th April 2021, 02:57 PM   #211
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Defense Department confirms leaked video of unidentified aerial phenomena is real

CNN)The Defense Department has confirmed that leaked photos and video of "unidentified aerial phenomena" taken in 2019 are indeed legitimate images of unexplained objects.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/15/polit...ent/index.html
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Old 16th April 2021, 02:59 PM   #212
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There's already a thread in which these were actually explained.
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Old 16th April 2021, 03:55 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
There's already a thread in which these were actually explained.
I've seen at least one critical analysis vid too which did an excellent job months ago. But this news release is brand spanking new. Perhaps the Defense Department should be made aware of the thread..

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Old 17th April 2021, 01:37 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
There's already a thread in which these were actually explained.
And these 'new' ones will be too, once they are properly analyzed.


'Disco ball' put into space from NZ
Quote:
A highly reflective sphere has been placed in orbit by a New Zealand-launched rocket.

Akin to a giant "disco ball", the object should be visible to the naked eye as it sweeps across a twilight sky...

The Humanity Star is a geodesic sphere constructed from carbon fibre with 65 highly reflective panels.

Circling the Earth every 90 minutes, it should be most visible in the darkened sky when the setting or rising sun shines up from below the horizon to catch the spinning ball's surface...

This is not the first time an object has been launched purely for its reflective properties.

The US artist Trevor Paglen is currently working on a future sculpture in space that would take the form of a giant diamond balloon. Again, it would be visible to the naked eye down on Earth.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg peterbeckwithhumanitystar.jpg (104.0 KB, 12 views)
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Old 17th April 2021, 04:28 AM   #215
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Unexplained objects are unexplained.
Fascinating.
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Old 17th April 2021, 04:40 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
There's already a thread in which these were actually explained.
This one?

If so, may I suggest merging? The OP here seems a bit thin to discuss.

The videos are "real" sure, but what does that actually imply?

Not extraterrestrials. There's almost always a mundane explanation.
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Old 17th April 2021, 06:20 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
This one?

If so, may I suggest merging? The OP here seems a bit thin to discuss.

The videos are "real" sure, but what does that actually imply?

Not extraterrestrials. There's almost always a mundane explanation.
I leave it up to members if they want to argue over it again.
With this article it's back to being a mystery and mysteries are asking to be demystified. That is intriguing. I am intrigued by this too. "US intelligence agencies have been directed to give unclassified reports about UAP’s to Congress in June"

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Old 17th April 2021, 07:21 AM   #218
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Wait.....is that an (out of focus) slice of pizza?
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Old 17th April 2021, 08:23 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
CNN)The Defense Department has confirmed that leaked photos and video of "unidentified aerial phenomena" taken in 2019 are indeed legitimate images of unexplained objects.
The Navy confirmed that the videos are real. They didn't confirm that the objects in the videos are legitimately unexplained.
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Old 17th April 2021, 08:27 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
I leave it up to members if they want to argue over it again.
With this article it's back to being a mystery and mysteries are asking to be demystified. That is intriguing. I am intrigued by this too. "US intelligence agencies have been directed to give unclassified reports about UAP’s to Congress in June"
Not everything picked up by every camera ever will be positively identified. This doesn't mean that they're actually intriguing mysteries. 99% of them are going to be planes, birds, imaging anomalies, and other mundane things. 1% are going to be interesting military stuff that the military isn't going to talk about and probably won't even acknowledge.

CNN is pretending there's an intriguing mystery here so that they can attract eyeballs.
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Old 18th April 2021, 04:14 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by deaman View Post
Wait.....is that an (out of focus) slice of pizza?
No, it's one of those Evil Cabal spaceships that transports the children to the vampire base on Mars.
They're shaped like a slice of pizza so they can be easily recognised as belonging to paedophiles.
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Old 18th April 2021, 06:33 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
CNN)The Defense Department has confirmed that leaked photos and video of "unidentified aerial phenomena" taken in 2019 are indeed legitimate images of unexplained objects.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/15/polit...ent/index.html
No they said. "As we have said before, to maintain operations security and to avoid disclosing information that may be useful to potential adversaries, DOD does not discuss publicly the details of either the observations or the examinations of reported incursions into our training ranges or designated airspace, including those incursions initially designated as UAP,"

I other words "We never comment on these thing because the fruit loops start weeing their pants in excitement. 99% of the time we know what it was 1% of the time we are not sure but narrow it down to 2 or 3 possibilities. Aliens are never one of those possibilities."
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Old 18th April 2021, 06:44 AM   #223
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They probably don't care what the froot loops think. Let them think it's aliens if they want. The actual explanations, assuming they've figured it out, may be classified.

That doesn't always mean they know. The Swedish Navy believed for many years that the sound of fish farts was Soviet submarines. They finally figured it out, after 15 years, by asking marine biologists if they could identify the noise.

So, I don't know whether the military actually has it figured out, but either way, they aren't commenting.
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Old 18th April 2021, 07:58 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
No they said. "As we have said before, to maintain operations security and to avoid disclosing information that may be useful to potential adversaries, DOD does not discuss publicly the details of either the observations or the examinations of reported incursions into our training ranges or designated airspace, including those incursions initially designated as UAP,"

I other words "We never comment on these thing because the fruit loops start weeing their pants in excitement. 99% of the time we know what it was 1% of the time we are not sure but narrow it down to 2 or 3 possibilities. Aliens are never one of those possibilities."
I am certain you are assuming you think I think it is aliens. I do not have any factual information to assume anything and neither do you.
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Old 18th April 2021, 08:05 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
I am certain you are assuming you think I think it is aliens. I do not have any factual information to assume anything and neither do you.
No, I have lots of factial information. There are birds, planes, balloons, camera malfunctions and quirks, sun light effects, clouds,. There is positive evidence for all these. There is no evidence anywhere of aliens. There is no evidence anywhere of flying teapots. It is therefore safe to assume that it is not aliens or flying teapots.
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Old 18th April 2021, 08:39 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
No, I have lots of factial information. There are birds, planes, balloons, camera malfunctions and quirks, sun light effects, clouds,. There is positive evidence for all these. There is no evidence anywhere of aliens. There is no evidence anywhere of flying teapots. It is therefore safe to assume that it is not aliens or flying teapots.
I was right. You did assume incorrectly. You are correct though.
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Old 18th April 2021, 09:23 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
I am certain you are assuming you think I think it is aliens. I do not have any factual information to assume anything and neither do you.
I'm assuming you think it's something interesting and newsworthy. I just can't figure out why.

As far as I can tell, it's just the same old clickbait shenanigans. Publishing inane non-stories as if there might actually be something novel or important going on.

What do you think makes this story more significant than the usual reporting on UFOs?
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Old 19th April 2021, 12:18 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
No they said. "As we have said before, to maintain operations security and to avoid disclosing information that may be useful to potential adversaries, DOD does not discuss publicly the details of either the observations or the examinations of reported incursions into our training ranges or designated airspace, including those incursions initially designated as UAP,"

I other words "We never comment on these thing because the fruit loops start weeing their pants in excitement. 99% of the time we know what it was 1% of the time we are not sure but narrow it down to 2 or 3 possibilities. Aliens are never one of those possibilities."
Also, enemy surveillance is one of those possibilities, so they especially can't talk about it.
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Old 19th April 2021, 06:53 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm assuming you think it's something interesting and newsworthy. I just can't figure out why.

As far as I can tell, it's just the same old clickbait shenanigans. Publishing inane non-stories as if there might actually be something novel or important going on.

What do you think makes this story more significant than the usual reporting on UFOs?
"As far as you can tell" is revealing. It says you made up your mind there is nothing of import based on limited knowledge. You could very well be right, but I have limited knowledge. Do you know this? The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not; Eureka!; but; That's funny...' " Isaac Asimov
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Old 19th April 2021, 07:00 AM   #230
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This is starting to look like a mind so open the brains fall out kind of situation.
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Old 19th April 2021, 08:55 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
CNN)The Defense Department has confirmed that leaked photos and video of "unidentified aerial phenomena" taken in 2019 are indeed legitimate images of unexplained objects.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/15/polit...ent/index.html
There is no "new" information in that article with the possible exception of the coming "reveal' in June.

I just can't wait!!
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Old 19th April 2021, 09:14 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
"As far as you can tell" is revealing. It says you made up your mind there is nothing of import based on limited knowledge. You could very well be right, but I have limited knowledge. Do you know this? The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not; Eureka!; but; That's funny...' " Isaac Asimov
In between my wash basket, the washing machine, the line and my drawers I have lost a black sock. As far as I can tell there is a mundane cause but I have limited knowledge. Does the gap in my knowledge mean that I can't rule out aliens?

Are aliens more likely to be the answer to my missing sock or the blurred photos?

What non mundane cause do you think it could be behind this? What possible new scientific discovery could there be? Feel free to answer for the sock or the photos.

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Old 19th April 2021, 09:37 AM   #233
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When the entirely plausible and well-argued mundane explanation for a video presumes that the video is not a fake, what would substantially change if the video were confirmed not to be a fake?
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Old 19th April 2021, 09:51 AM   #234
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Navy: Has sensors.

Also Navy: Sometimes detect things with their sensors.

Also Navy: Sometimes confirms that alleged footage of Navy sensors detecting things is in fact Navy sensors detecting things.

CNN: Navy confirms UFOs are real!

The Rest of Us: We already knew UFOs are real. So what?
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Old 19th April 2021, 10:44 AM   #235
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In my experience, the UFO debate stumbles constantly over the equivocation of "real." You see, "UFOs Are Real!" Yes, but real what?

Real, perhaps, in the tangible existence of objective data, such as physical residue or photographic evidence. That's different that someone simply saying, "I saw a thing in the sky," without being able to show evidence of the sighting. But even when you have photographic evidence, "reality" depends on whether there was actually something to photograph. Usually you have some optical factor in the camera that's at least partially if not wholly responsible for the captured image. An out-of-focus helium balloon can be rendered unidentifiable. Yes, the balloon is real and the captured footage is real. But it's hardly remarkable except to someone who wants to make something profound and wonderful out of it without fear of contradiction.

Real, perhaps, in the sense of not being a deliberate fake. Today, easily-obtained desktop computer software, in skilled hands, can create very convincing video footage. It's becoming harder and harder to distinguish real footage from deep fake footage, and so video footage by itself becomes less convincing. It would be "real" in the sense of having accompanying evidence that the video depicts an actual captured image. But then, even before we could do such things with advanced computer graphics, Billy Meier was photographing model cars and hubcaps and miniature trees and fooling quite a lot of people. That footage is "real" in the sense that its natural film and photography of objects exactly as they existed in the photographed scene. But it's specifically aimed at deceiving an audience using scale and perspective tricks. Not "real" in the sense of depicting accurately what the photos suggest at first blush.

It's that secondary evidence that I think falls mostly into the equivocation trap. "U.S. Military Confirms UFO Footage is Real," is the headline. But all that's being confirmed is the origin of the film (as opposed to "purported military footage") and that what you see is what was photographed. The trap is then to believe that the releasing agency confirms not just the authenticity and origin of the video, but what someone else may be saying about it. Proponents can rightly say that it puts the burden of proof on the skeptic if the skeptic wants to argue that it's deep fake, or doctored in some way. But the proponent still has the burden to show the video must depict something otherworldly as opposed to a collection of "real" phenomena that have combined to create this particular odd observation.
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Old 19th April 2021, 11:36 AM   #236
Steve001
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
In between my wash basket, the washing machine, the line and my drawers I have lost a black sock. As far as I can tell there is a mundane cause but I have limited knowledge. Does the gap in my knowledge mean that I can't rule out aliens?

Are aliens more likely to be the answer to my missing sock or the blurred photos?

What non mundane cause do you think it could be behind this? What possible new scientific discovery could there be? Feel free to answer for the sock or the photos.
Who mentioned aliens? You did. As for mundane there are several, birds, balloons, mistaken identification, false radar returns, classified domestic tech, unknown foreign tech.

Last edited by Steve001; 19th April 2021 at 11:56 AM.
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Old 19th April 2021, 11:53 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
This is starting to look like a mind so open the brains fall out kind of situation.
An admonishment I've used before on others.

Last edited by Steve001; 19th April 2021 at 12:21 PM.
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Old 19th April 2021, 12:00 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
Who mentioned aliens? You did. As for mundane there are several, birds, balloons, mistaken identification, classified domestic tech, unknown foreign tech.
... and known foreign tech, and unknown domestic tech, and aircraft, and sensor artifacts...

It's the same list it's always been. The only thing CNN's report does is rule out two possibilities:

- fake footage

- misattributed footage

What is it about this report that you think is interesting and worth more attention?

For me it was learning about bokeh.
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Old 19th April 2021, 12:01 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
With this article it's back to being a mystery
How so?

Has the Department of Defense expressed any doubts over the mundane explanations? Has it offered any new details which contradict the mundane explanations? Doesn't appear so.

So, what has become a mystery?
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Old 19th April 2021, 12:08 PM   #240
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
Another assumption. And an incorrect one at that.
What is it about this video that sparks your interest? What questions, if any, would you like us to consider when we watch this video?
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